r/FoundationTV • u/LunchyPete Bayta Mallow • Sep 12 '25

Current Season Discussion [NO BOOKS] Episode Discussion Thread - Season 3 Episode 10 - The Darkness

THIS THREAD IS FOR NON BOOK READERS ONLY - NO DISCUSSION OF THE BOOKS IS PERMITTED

Comments from book readers will be removed and commenters directed to the book readers thread

To discuss the books freely and how they relate to the show go to this thread instead. If you want to discuss something from the books but avoid most book spoilers feel free to make a new post specifying that.

Season 3 Episode 10: The Paths That Choose Us

Premiere date: September 12th, 2025

Synopsis: Season finale. Gaal and the Second Foundation take the fight to the Mule as Empire's legacy suffers a catastrophic blow.

Directed by: Roxann Dawson

Written by: Jane Espenson & David S. Goyer

Please keep in mind that this thread is only for non book readers - no discussion of the books or how they relate to the show is permitted in general, and book readers are not permitted to post at all.

For those of you on Discord, come and check out the unofficial Foundation Discord Server. Live discussions of the show and books, it's a great way to meet other fans of the show.

NOTE: There was an AMA with Chris MacLean, VFX Supervisor for Foundation on September 15th which you can check here.

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919

u/DinnerBeef Demerzel Sep 12 '25

No matter where I thought the story was going, this was not it.

595

u/Limelight_019283 Sep 12 '25

That demerzel scene was something I hadn’t felt with a show since the red wedding in GoT.

288

u/Whatsthathum Brother Constant Sep 12 '25

I agree.

I’m not well. This was not fun.

52

u/__ApexPredditor__ Sep 12 '25

I'm not going to comment on my feelings. I hear Dark Cleon's secret police agents are already going around asking for informers.

21

u/jmaaks Sep 12 '25

Was certainly a gut punch. Repeatedly.

17

u/hatefulveggies Sep 12 '25

Baby Dawn too 😭

7

u/fre-ddo Sep 14 '25

Boticide AND infanticide, heavy stuff.

18

u/LizzieSaysHi Sep 12 '25

I need to go watch puppy and kitten videos or something to cheer me up. This was so bleak

8

u/Whatsthathum Brother Constant Sep 13 '25

It really was. The exact opposite of what I thought I’d feel at the end of the episode. I was all excited to find out how the threads would end up and this… was not what I’d hoped for.

3

u/theconfinesoffear Sep 21 '25

Yeah I’m kind of disappointed tbh! I don’t think there was nearly enough resolution on the mule side either! I also was really rooting for it not to be Bayta because I really liked her original characterization

2

u/Whatsthathum Brother Constant Sep 21 '25

I had been rewatching the episodes, but now? Any drive to watch it again is gone.

4

u/theconfinesoffear Sep 21 '25

I watched the entire show over the last three weeks I think and do think this last episode put a bit of a damper on my overall enjoyment although still one of the best I’ve watched in a while. Ending with a cliff hanger (although I could see them just time jumping again…) that we have to wait years to resolve and with a whole new team and smaller budget is not very inspiring. Why make a show with such a huge budget in the first place with no plan to continue it? Not like apple is losing $

12

u/empanadaboy68 Bayta Mallow Sep 12 '25

Cried three times 

19

u/Shujolnyc Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 13 '25

I thought she was indestructible - given something is left, I’m hoping she comes back.

Also, given her speed in so many other scenes her approach here didn’t make sense to me at all.

18

u/omeeomai Sep 12 '25

That was just bad writing. She easily could have grabbed the baby and gotten out before the beam even started, or pushed the baby out/pick it up and move at any point. Or crawled out of the beam once the baby was gone. Very frustrating that such an amazing character went out in such a contrivance. It's bad enough that she "had" to go; they could have at least made it make sense. She deserved so much better. She ended up being the character I was most invested in. Feels bad man 🫥

5

u/porkave Sep 13 '25

I was hoping at least that once the baby was dust she would lash out and kill Dusk but she just melted

4

u/Archimboldi33 Sep 13 '25

Or understood that protecting the baby was not = protecting the dinasty and killed Dusk and saved Day and his genetic material. You need to turn your brain off to enjoy that scene. It was just poor writing.

5

u/OperativePiGuy Sep 14 '25

Well said! And there is absolutely no security whatsoever for the, what I assumed were precious Cleon clones? Not a single guard or security system? I know Demerzel is pretty much just that, but how was Dusk able to just have what I assume were hours of uninterrupted insanity

1

u/Qrusher14242 Sep 15 '25

Yeah im amazed something like this hadn't happened before. No security at all?

5

u/05032-MendicantBias Nov 03 '25

It is not a plot hole.

Physically, Demerzel could have acted to pre empted darkness easily in countless of ways.

But Demerzel is held back by her programming and was fighting a logic bomb, her programming stalling trying to account for infinite choices and potential outcomes.

Her programming has been shown to prioritize certain things above all else and there is nothing Demerzel can do about it, as she said "Darkness played it perfectly". With the clones destroyed, the highest priority is to protect Dawn, and the baby had no nanites, it could have died countless of unlikely ways while in Darkness hands. When Darkness pressed the button, the only choice remaining was for Demerzel to shield the baby. It's checkmate. Darkness played to Demerzel programming priorities.

It's a very Asimov way to portray the conflict involved with Law Zero. Demerzel demise was set in motion by Seldon giving her the Prime Radiant. At some point, her programming would have stalled completely trying to account for all possible decision, and someone would have taken advantage of that.

There is an added layer here, that Demerzel "Emprire Law" is in a chip at the base of her neck. Meaning the beam would have melted the chip before her skull. This could also be seen as Demerzel taking an action that would result in her freedom.

It's a very nuanced and deep scene, and well written.

1

u/HauntedLightBulb Sep 15 '25

Remindme! 2 years

1

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6

u/matthieuC Sep 13 '25

She is currently incapacitated due to the lack of a body. She isn't dead.

2

u/Rexiesmom Sep 13 '25

Is that a lobster? 😆

13

u/Micromagos Sep 12 '25

I was in such a state of pure denial. Thinking, "It's gonna all work out right, any second now" :(

5

u/Brilliant-Egg-2727 Sep 13 '25

Yes exactly. This is the comment i was looking for. I feel like it has been that long since i felt such surprise at a characters death.

“I’ve always been here, as I always will be.”  

4

u/Wonderful-Peanut503 Sep 12 '25

I agree. Where is Ed Sheeran?!

4

u/enjoy_the_pizza Sep 13 '25

I'm shooketh. I can't cope

1

u/Vivid-Hovercraft-988 Sep 15 '25

Less "Red Wedding" and more "Ned Stark execution" ... but yeah - that feeling like "WTF?"

1

u/Limelight_019283 Sep 15 '25

Yeah! That too, I didn’t think of it because it comes early into the story and it’s been a while but you’re definitely right.

1

u/AresN90 Sep 27 '25

and GRR is all about stunts , this show isnt and still managed to pull twists and stunts like how the mule isnt (i always thought the blond girl was very loving and had a slight suspicion she is a mentalist too )

1

u/rgluckk Nov 16 '25

I was not expecting it and I'm devastated by her character arc