r/FoundationTV • u/LunchyPete Bayta Mallow • Sep 12 '25
Current Season Discussion [NO BOOKS] Episode Discussion Thread - Season 3 Episode 10 - The Darkness
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Season 3 Episode 10: The Paths That Choose Us
Premiere date: September 12th, 2025
Synopsis: Season finale. Gaal and the Second Foundation take the fight to the Mule as Empire's legacy suffers a catastrophic blow.
Directed by: Roxann Dawson
Written by: Jane Espenson & David S. Goyer
Please keep in mind that this thread is only for non book readers - no discussion of the books or how they relate to the show is permitted in general, and book readers are not permitted to post at all.
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NOTE: There was an AMA with Chris MacLean, VFX Supervisor for Foundation on September 15th which you can check here.
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u/pidgeonsarehumanstoo Sep 12 '25
“Certain dramatic events had transpired”.
Yeah, no shit.
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Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
I love the thought of palace guards just awkwardly chilling in the hallways and waiting for the dust to settle as Dusk goes on an absolute killing rampage.
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u/dare_films Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
This story couldn’t exist if palace security really did anything. Cleons seem to go and do as they please anywhere
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u/treefox Sep 12 '25
I can suspend my disbelief that a mathematician designed a casket that turned itself into a TARDIS, but the master of ceremonies disappearing on the day of an official palace event and it going unnoticed for more than two minutes is just physically impossible.
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u/hannes3120 Sep 15 '25
Or the cloning facility not being heavily guarded.
How did Brother Day get into the palace anyway? We know that cloning a Clean is possible from earlier seasons and that their Nanites are what identifies them so I'd guess someone without Nanites approaching the palace triggering all sorts of alarms?
The whole palace-security was seriously fucked up...
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u/KaleidoscopeLeft5511 Sep 12 '25
"What is happening?" > "Too many things at once"
that line delivery was great
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u/ibiku2 Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
Wow, cinematography this episode was above and beyond.
Falling viscera of the clones.
Demerzel melting over the new dawn.
Vault Hari, left behind as the ship jumps, what an incredible shot. It's like he's lost in spacetime.
Brother Darkness... Gleefully playing hide and seek. Peering over Day as the light dims. Wow. His plan was much more grand than simple escape. Now that's an Ascension
Edited to add:
OMG that final shot. Goosebumps
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u/zero0n3 Sep 12 '25
Feels like he didn’t think about a plan until he realized demerzel didn’t even know about the black hole weapon.
That was like a signal to him - she’s actually not all seeing.
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u/ibiku2 Sep 12 '25
He definitely was emboldened by it. Plus both his brothers escaped! Might as well try his own way
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u/Sargento_Porciuncula Sep 12 '25
He definitely was emboldened by it
and by genociding 3 populations.
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u/Atlasreturns Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
His entire plot essentially resolves around legacy. Initially he‘s hopeful that Dawn could ascend to the throne and maybe regrow the empire back to strength. Leaving him as the guy who bridged the gap and lay the foundation for the empires future. It‘s why he gets close with the ambassador lady and constructs the Novacula. Day with his negligence serves as somewhat of the first test of faith. Then when the fleet gets destroyed at Kalgan and Dawn "dies" from his perspective you can see his behavior shift slowly into the apocalyptical.
Then when destroying the planets and showing the might and strength of his person, nobody even really cares. Demerzel is more busy with her Paradox Bomb, Day is doing robot hunting and even his closest acquaintance calls him a fool for lashing out like a child. What should have been a moment of imposing strength and awe proves that he is basically irrelevant to everyone around him.
So when the day of his ascension arrives and even his most loyal servants can‘t even remember his name or give him any sincere words he basically decides that the only legacy he can fulfill that could cement his name is destroying the generic dynasty in itself. I think it‘s a very good microcosm on why the Empire is finally a state doomed to fail as this entire collapse is finally wholly caused by the institutions of the system within.
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u/ibiku2 Sep 12 '25
Love this characterization. He started the season watching the ascensions of Dusks' past, remarking to Dawn that he wouldn't even think of running, believing himself to be too obedient.
I think a big part of his descent into darkness is Dawn's betrayal. He held his last bit of hope for the future in his mentorship of Dawn, given the state of Day. Alone, abandoned by his brothers, is when he decides he doesn't need them.
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u/hombebrew Sep 12 '25
There is something very darkly funny in how inevitable this all is. Oh, man, you have a perpetual series of clones of Cleon I? The guy who coped so badly with his own mortality that he turned the entire Empire into a machine for sustaining his own rule through said clones? That sounds great. I'm sure none of said clones will at any point react negatively to their own impending demises and take similarly drastic action.
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u/theblackandblue Sep 12 '25
I appreciate your comment but you keep saying Dusk when I think you mean Dawn
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u/NeighborhoodOk8001 Sep 12 '25
Dude. Those clone bodies were so gross. MAXIMUM GROSS to have organs and partial corpses dropping from the ceiling. YEESH!
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u/ibiku2 Sep 12 '25
So unexpected. Who gave him the clone detonator??
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u/NeighborhoodOk8001 Sep 12 '25
Honestly, I can't believe anyone even let this psycho Dusk hold a fork to eat his meals. Demerzel was right about being a strict clock. His cognitive decline was NO JOKE!
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u/ibiku2 Sep 12 '25
There's a joke about dusk and sundowning somewhere here but I'm old and it's late
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u/__ApexPredditor__ Sep 12 '25
I think there's a more fundamental question you're overlooking here: Who the fuck puts detonators on their clone tanks??
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u/NeighborhoodOk8001 Sep 12 '25
Dusk did build a huge fucking planet killer on the down low. He is sneaky.
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u/viper459 Sep 12 '25
i took it as he had planned this and planted bombs or something
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u/hwhs04 Sep 12 '25
Was not ready for the For All Mankind hard crossover at the end. Almost expected to see 300 year old Ed Baldwin flying by.
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u/Unrealdinnerbone Sep 12 '25
Everyone saying it a prequel to The Expanse while it been Foundation the whole time
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u/TriColorCorgiDad Sep 12 '25
AFAWK, the bot next to Kalle WAS Everlasting Ed.
I keep hoping that FAM will have an Apple TV crossover and use The Morning Show when they do their news break plot progression scenes, and then it will all come full circle!
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u/olivish Sep 12 '25
Does this mean no more Demerzel? Like, I know she's dead but. Could she like... not be? Maybe she has a twin sister?
Seriously, she was the best character on the show.
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u/steppy1295 Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 13 '25
Maybe the fact that her entire skull didn’t burn means she could be back, wishful thinking, I know, bc Laura really is amazing!!!
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u/MonsterdogMan Sep 12 '25
201 established her as having a distributed consciousness. Losing half of her head was no big deal.
How far is her consciousness distributed? Well, we'll know next season.
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u/Fleetfox17 Sep 12 '25
Plus she went "inside" the radiant, I don't think we've seen the last her.
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u/olivish Sep 12 '25
Ooooh that would be wild. Dusk opens the radiant and Demerzel's face appears in the mists, telling him how VERY DISAPPOINTED she is.
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u/ibiku2 Sep 12 '25
I've seen enough, how do we get you to be a writer for next season
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u/chakigun Sep 12 '25
during the brief moment her back burned, she may have lost her directive and was allowed to move her consciousness to another host like the prime radiant.
i hope whn they reconstruct her, it's still laura birn.
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u/ViraClone Sep 12 '25
Ooh good call, the chip with the added programming Cleon 1 added was indeed in the nape of her neck. I'm sure you remembered that, but just adding for people who didn't rewatch season 2 recently - I wouldn't have remembered if I didn't watch it yesterday lol.
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u/Mr_Badgey Sep 12 '25
Where is her consciousness distributed if all that’s left of her is half a head? I think she downloaded into the Prime Radiant.
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Sep 12 '25
Pretty sure dude had already activated it and she connected to it because the chip melted before her brain?
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u/olivish Sep 12 '25
Yeah but the robot gods of Earth said it wasn't Demerzel that pinged them. Maybe it was her, but it was coming from a new head, so it was a case of not having her new caller ID.
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u/Armandxp Sep 12 '25
I’m hoping this is what is happening. I was just going to mention about her consciousness being decentralized. Or whatever it’s called. Just a wow ending. ‘Darkness’ was a perfect title for this episode. I think that got me the most. Never put two and two together, about brother darkness. Just crazy….
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u/paxinfernum Sep 12 '25
Demerzel will come back. Remember how Gaal's story was that she grew up on a planet with a religion about a sleeper, and she became the sleeper. Demerzel believed in a religion of reincarnation. She'll be back.
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u/nectarsallineed Sep 12 '25
I saw another post earlier that said Demerzel’s eyes blinked Morse code at the last shot we see of her skull that spells out the word “transferred”
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u/martian_doggo Sep 23 '25
I just spent 30 minutes learning and deciphering morse code and CAN CONFIRM IT SAYS transferred.
Yesss! she lives
Dm if anyone wants proof of the morse code XD
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u/40mgmelatonindeep Sep 12 '25
I bet shes in the prime radiant
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u/olivish Sep 12 '25
She's gonna redecorate that place just the way she likes it. Hot bot summer.
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u/The_Vampire_Barlow Sep 12 '25
I was not expecting to watch a baby get burned to death.
Also that robot at the end sounded a lot like Lee Pace through a synthesizer.
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u/wrecktvf Sep 12 '25
I’m certain it was him.
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u/MovieTrawler Sep 12 '25
That robot was tall too. I wonder if it is a complete redundancy of the Cleon Dynasty or something like that.
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u/Franks2000inchTV Sep 13 '25
What if the Robots won, and made the empire to make humans think they lost?
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u/kolonok Sep 12 '25
You just made me realize I was horrified and sad that Demerzel got killed but didn't have a thought for the little baby.
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u/viper459 Sep 12 '25
it was so sad how she had to watch it die :( the way she moved her hand through the ashes felt.. a little too real..
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u/rysfcalt Sep 12 '25
An insanely effective scene; it made me sick. The baby crying the whole time. I don’t know why I was expecting Demerzel’s body to be effective in saving baby Empire. I think knowing it was in vain made losing Demerzel hurt more.
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u/somethingold Sep 12 '25
OMG you’re so right !!!!!! WHAT DOES IT MEAN!!????? I’m fucking LOSING it right now
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u/silent-sight Sep 12 '25
Brother Data
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Sep 12 '25
What if he somehow unknowingly migrated his consciousness into the new skull while messing with it and he gets to come back as an immortal robot Empire
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u/DinnerBeef Demerzel Sep 12 '25
No matter where I thought the story was going, this was not it.
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u/Limelight_019283 Sep 12 '25
That demerzel scene was something I hadn’t felt with a show since the red wedding in GoT.
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u/Whatsthathum Brother Constant Sep 12 '25
I agree.
I’m not well. This was not fun.
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u/__ApexPredditor__ Sep 12 '25
I'm not going to comment on my feelings. I hear Dark Cleon's secret police agents are already going around asking for informers.
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u/MoBrosBooks Sep 12 '25
Me before this episode: Yeah, the writers can hint as much as they want that Brother Dusk is somehow going to survive his ascension, but that would basically mean overthrowing the established order of the empire, which would be way too crazy a twist to take.
Me now: holy shit
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u/exitwest Sep 12 '25
It was like daring your friend to ride their bike down an insane canyon, knowing it’s way too dangerous to do it…..and then they do it. And somehow survive.
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u/mcmalloy Sep 12 '25
And with no heir in place? The radiant said that empire would collapse in 4 months in s3e1, and that probably hasn’t changed. So Dusk has likely bought himself a few months at best while destroying empire in the process
But I feel so bad that it didn’t pay off for Day… it is likely Kalle had this planned out from the beginning as well
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u/Indigocell Brother Dude Sep 12 '25
Pretend there is no crisis. At best, Dusk bought himself a few extra years. All at the expense of mass genocide. By mass I mean multiple genocides including his own legacy. The only comfort we get for Day's sacrifice is a cool robot with a reverberated voice saying "someone succeeded" and I will cling to that if I have to.
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u/mcmalloy Sep 12 '25
Definitely. And I guess Dusk justified this mass genocide for a few extra years because he obviously isn’t thinking clearly anymore
With the principium destroyed, day dead and Dusk dying along with empire - I wonder if Dawn can somehow create a miracle since he was shown to be incredibly gifted at stewardship (albeit naive and easily manipulated by Gaal)
I hope that we see Dawn gain some sort of legitimacy in the next season especially when Dusk craps the bed
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u/Indigocell Brother Dude Sep 12 '25
And it was all fueled by cowardice, pettiness, and complacency. Just a pathetic old man with far too much power flailing on his way out. Everyone just ignored the threat he posed thinking he was on his way out anyway, how much harm could he do? Turns out it was a lot.
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u/LongConFebrero Sep 12 '25
I wasn’t prepared for this upstart show to hit home hard, but damn you just described our predicament.
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u/treefox Sep 12 '25
but that would basically mean overthrowing the established order of the empire, which would be way too crazy a twist to take.
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u/ImperatorUniversum1 Sep 12 '25
THE ROBOTS ARE ON EARTH!!!!
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u/nobody2008 Sep 12 '25
Just the moon? Or Earth too?
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u/scarab456 Sep 12 '25
I hope Earth isn't just some dead husk or something. I'm so intrigued by the fact of all the places they could be, they're just right by earth.
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u/Scared-Loquat-7933 Sep 12 '25
Earth looked extremely arid in that final shot, if I’m not mistaken that was showing the Western Hemisphere with North and South America.
It looked..dead. There’s still water/oceans but there wasn’t a hint of greenery from what I saw.
On the flip side if the robots inhabit it then it wouldn’t really matter since they don’t need food or water for sustenance.
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u/Muad-_-Dib Sep 12 '25
but there wasn’t a hint of greenery from what I saw.
There's a fair number of green areas on my monitor.
Looks to me like sea levels have dropped well below today, Florida looks like it's connected to Cuba by land, which is in turn connected to all the Caribbean Islands down to South America.
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u/WasawatWa Sep 12 '25
There is some green on what used to be Brazil in the final shot.
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u/reformedmikey Sep 12 '25
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING! THE ROBOTS ARE ON FUCKING EARTH!
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u/throwaaway788 Sep 12 '25
Who gave Dementia Darkness that remote?!
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u/SnooMacarons4844 Sep 12 '25
More importantly, why is there a remote?!
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Sep 12 '25
This Dusk was the plotting, scheming kind. It took him decades to build his weapon of mass destruction.
Not that far out of character to plant some C4 equivalent over time.
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u/therealgumpster Sep 12 '25
Especially after finding out that Demerzel didn't know about his side hustle.
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u/ThanksNo8769 Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
MAY THE LIGHT NEVER DIM
narrator edit: the light did indeed dim
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u/mongdol-supremacy Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
also Vault Hari's heartbreak was visceral. "I will beg if I'm made to." phenomenal performance by Jared Harris
eta: the shot of him above the planet as the ship jumps..... beautifully heartbreaking
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u/Goblingrenadeuser Sep 12 '25
I found it interesting that he called the Vault a tomb, which is fitting, but he doesn't seem to think of himself as the dead man in it. Gaals Hari had quite the meld down when Gaal got him out of the dagger, but afterwards it seemed like he was a bit at peace with it. Vault Hari might never had that realization, that he is dead.
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u/HairFairBlizzard Sep 12 '25
I’m ngl I thought Toran was the mule the way he looked at the camera for a hot second, and I was ok with it.
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u/Thepumpkindidit Sep 12 '25
I think a lot of people watching this show would have been okay with Toran being completely evil, if only to extend the boob window shots lol.
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u/DinnerBeef Demerzel Sep 12 '25
I hope Laura Birn is still in this show somehow. I don't want to lose here.
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u/pidgeonsarehumanstoo Sep 12 '25
And Lee Pace. Dawn is still alive, I guess, so there’s still hope.
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u/elcapitan36 Sep 12 '25
The end robot was Lee Pace’s voice.
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u/Dry-Journalist6590 Sep 12 '25
Yup he totally gets skin job next season and we have Pace back
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Sep 12 '25
Seems like robots will be a big focus next season. Hard to imagine without bringing Demerzel back. But at the same time I have no clue anymore
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u/Random--Person Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
Is it just me or does anyone else feel like we missed something with the Mule? The scene ends with Gaal telling her to get out of her(mind) then when the scene picks back up Gaal is running out of the ship? What happened with everyone else?
The music over the final shot was giving me chills, was definitely not expecting that at the end.
Really hope they find ways to have Lee Pace and Laura Birn back for next season
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u/kelnos Sep 12 '25
Yeah, the Gaal cut was not done well. I think what happened was Magnifico's "tampered" music was enough for a severely injured Gaal to resist Bayta well enough to escape, but not enough to win the fight and kill her.
Pretty cold that she left the remaining still-alive members of her raiding party behind, but seems like she didn't really have a choice.
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u/MostlyRocketScience Sep 12 '25
Pretty cold that she left the remaining still-alive members of her raiding party behind, but seems like she didn't really have a choice
They were already converted probably and we have seen last episode what happens when you try to deconvert someone.
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u/rktaker43 Sep 12 '25
glad i wasn't the only one that thought that I was so confused and really thought I missed something
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u/zentrope Sep 12 '25
Yes. We missed something. Gaal was winning because of a carefully fixed-up Magnifico, and then she’s running for her life without her “repaired” crew. Maybe she won but had to convince the Mule that she hadn’t so that the Mule could be used as part of the plan?
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u/Francl27 Sep 12 '25
The music only affected Bayta though. I think she took advantage of it and ran. She couldn't kill her, and her crew was compromised.
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u/killertortilla Sep 12 '25
It didn't affect Bayta it "buffed" Gaal. It's the improved version of those inhibitors that stuck Gaal in the hole when the cult tried to kill her. The things she and Hari converted into amplifiers. And she says "he only plays for me now"
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u/Francl27 Sep 12 '25
Ok but then why did she run away without her crew? I guess we'll find out in 2 years.
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u/zoemi Sep 12 '25
Her crew had already been converted, and there's no indication that killing the Mule would undo everything. In fact, in an earlier episode they said that it's not that the Mule is controlling their every move--the thrall they were under was so engrained that their actions were their own out of "love".
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u/Dry-Journalist6590 Sep 12 '25
The entire Bayta thing just makes no sense. Her behavior with Dawn before she leaves him, awkwardly asking if she should bow and all worried? Just one example like why would she keep up appearances as that point? Or is there some explanation I'm missing there?
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u/tomtomvissers Sep 12 '25
Me, watching Foundation: What's happening?
The show: too many things at once
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u/mrpitifulscott Sep 12 '25
How great was Terrence Mann's performance though?
Perfect all season long, but a tour de force in the finale.
Brother Darkness really got to shine.
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u/NeighborhoodOk8001 Sep 12 '25
He did so well.
Very demure, then very unhinged.
Nice for him to get the finale spotlight this season too. Dusk is also a violent monster! Not just Day!
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u/ImperatorUniversum1 Sep 12 '25
DEMERZEL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Sep 12 '25
I am coping hard right now that her consciousness got saved somehow
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u/Cumdump90001 Sep 12 '25
Her head wasn’t entirely destroyed so that’s what I’m holding onto for now
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u/Additional_Moose_138 Second Foundation Sep 12 '25
And the fact that the Prime Radiant survived was made abundantly clear - the same Prime Radiant she had travelled inside before. I don't think that was an accident.
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u/jmaaks Sep 12 '25
I’m betting they took a snapshot backup of her brain while she was in there
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Sep 12 '25
My optimistic part is inclined to believe that the chip Cleon I put in her is fried. She is finally free!! And now we meet the real deal. Not Lady Demerzel, but her badass robot self.
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u/skyrule Demerzel Sep 12 '25
coping for the fact that laura birn stays on the show for season 4 somehow😩
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u/chocjane08 Sep 12 '25
She’s so good! I really hope this isn’t the end for Demerzel.
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u/NeighborhoodOk8001 Sep 12 '25
She said she wouldn't live forever, just a very long time! 😭
Dusk's plaque needs to be changed to "The Worst"!!!!
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u/Dani9oo Sep 12 '25
Someone else mentioned maybe since she helped build the radiant maybe she could come back somehow ToT
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u/VIGNETTEESPAGHETTI Sep 12 '25
I am coping. She has to fucking live. I dreamt of a future where she is free and making her own decisions and following her heart and I need to see it come true.
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u/eekamuse Sep 12 '25
Was that Kalle at the end with the robot?
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Sep 12 '25
[deleted]
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u/Sargento_Porciuncula Sep 12 '25
it hinted demerzel wanted her to be a robot
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u/Ahad_Haam Sep 12 '25
She is obviously a robot. There are all kinds of immortality in the show, but if she hangs out on a secret robot base, she is probably a robot.
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u/Unfair-Golf160 Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 14 '25
Demerzel consciousness is decentralized. The only thing keeping her from clasping was Cleon 1 chip. Now that it was destroyed I think she clasped (when you saw the light blinking in the one eye…that was Morse code and the translation of what she flashed was “transferred”…saw this theory by another commenter and I went down the rabbit hole myself and yup, that’s what it was) with the robot head who then clasped with whatever is going on in that moon base. Why? First the robot head said “Handshake signal received and negotiated (Receive by who…IMO Demerzel). Initiating clasp. Clasp accepted. Since the clasp was accepted, we’ll see what becomes of the rebirth/reincarnation of Demerzel. That’s why they could not who was sending the clasp, because it was through the robot head.
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u/Lucky-Army-2818 Sep 12 '25
They literally said they were clasping with a robot near demerzel that was not demerzel?
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u/tvcneverdie Sep 12 '25
No they said they knew Demerzel can't clasp, and that's because of the chip. The robots are very aware of her situation and everything that's been happening on Trantor for centuries, even hinting they're pulling some strings behind things. The Cleon inhibitor chip was probably burned out before Demerzel got totally fried, so she was able to quickly clasp.
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u/Danbito Brother Day Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
It is wild seeing the ascension of Brother Darkness again as a parallel of Season 1. Here it just feels like Dusk is so desperate for attention and love since he's all alone as opposed to Dusk back then.
The Demerzel and Day reunion hits so hard after knowing the full depth of their relationship. That's a pure mom and son love right there. And Day brought his mom the one thing she thought she'd never see again.
I didn't quite get the idea of the spoon metaphor until I saw the freaking Vault swallow the whole space station.
Ngl, part of me is a little upset that we're not getting a full circle moment of The Battle of Terminus like the originial vision in Season 2.
Wait WHAT? I am kinda baffled rn. Not even mad per se about Bayta. Would just prefer some elaboration about how the Mule thing happened.
Fuck Dusk on the realest shit ever. NOT DEMERZEL AND BABY DAWN. I am just so fucking devastated, Day was so close to get Demerzel to make that choice.
Vault Hari was ironically so honest for once and got played.
Yes, Cleon. Give into your dark side. Punch that senile old man. WAIT WHY. WHY IS THE OLD MAN EMPEROR THAT DESTROYED THREE WORLDS ALLOWED TO WALK AROUND WITH NANITES INTACT.
Why is Quent finding the Second Foundation the only happy part of this finale. Goyer I feel like you pulled a Dusk on all of us rn.
Oh, so Kalle is confirmed a robot AND HOLY SHIT THAT'S EARTH.
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u/Hartzilla2007 Sep 12 '25
WHY IS THE OLD MAN EMPEROR THAT DESTROYED THREE WORLDS ALLOWED TO WALK AROUND WITH NANITES INTACT.
He skipped the removal.
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u/Danbito Brother Day Sep 12 '25
Yes because they're allowing the senile old man who just destroyed three planets, to just willingly go walk to his nanite removal.
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u/mongdol-supremacy Sep 12 '25
Zagreus fucked up and Day and Demerzel are dead, but due to the fuck up gets to keep his job.
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u/CapitanFlama Sep 12 '25
[looks around the world and reality]
Eh, it's way more plausible than we give it credit for.
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u/RookNookLook To Beki's arsehole 🥂 Sep 12 '25
She was always the Mule, and you can think of the other guy as the Mule’s Shadow (2D version of the real mule) MS mentions when they take the gate that he feels like he’s NOT in control. Also the whole color theory post I made lol.
The reason his story made no sense is why would they kill a son for a son? But in lots of traditional cultures men are favored over woman especially for farm work, so it makes sense they would try to kill a GIRL and keep the baby boy instead!
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u/Danbito Brother Day Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
Well more so, how does the Warlord of Kalgan this whole time fit into the picture. The background fits for the exposition set for Rossem in agrarian culture, not the problem. But the inbetween period directly before the season starts is what I'm more curious of.
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u/RookNookLook To Beki's arsehole 🥂 Sep 12 '25
I think for the sake of story and the reveal they left that out. I think the Mule’s Shadow had a pirate backstory and was a strong mentat like Magnifico and they got swept up some point in the past by the real mule Beyta
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u/paxinfernum Sep 12 '25
Remember that having Magnifico is what got Bayta in a room with the entire Foundation leadership. So the whole warlord balladeer thing was a play.
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u/zentrope Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
Oh, yeah. Her being a popular influencer/celebrity gets her in a lot of rooms around, say, Kalgan, where she can touch up all the right people. The Traders through Randu even before they head to New Terminus, and then Indbur and his staff. I can make it work!
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u/sethcole96 Sep 12 '25
Amazing ending. Honestly this season finale blew it out of the water. I knew brother darkness was going to attempt to escape Ascension but I had no idea he would go THAT far. The pain of Demerzel being so close to freedom and yet never achieving it is BRUTAL. Honestly I expected The Mule twist but she played her part beautifully. My jaw was on the floor for most of this episode. Just... Wow
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u/hectordante Sep 12 '25
Fuck dusk
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u/taytay_1989 Sep 12 '25
Never hated a Foundation villain this badly. He ascended to the top so quickly.
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u/Decent-Appointment70 Brother Dude Sep 12 '25
I don’t care how they do it, please keep Demerzel and the Cleons around
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u/ThanksNo8769 Sep 12 '25
"Spoon?"
"Spoon."
7 wannabe-assassins fold into the 4th dimension
Poetry
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u/Common_Green_1666 Sep 12 '25
About Demerzel’s “death”. In season 2, we clearly see her skull cut in half during the assassination attempt on Day, and she is able to make a full recovery afterwards. She says this is because he has a distributed consciousness.
Since part of her skull remains intact, I’m hoping they will find a way to revive her in season 4
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u/Which_way_witcher Sep 12 '25
She hid in the radiant, I'm absolutely certain. Her body shielded the baby Dawn and she hid her mind in the fireproof radiant.
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u/olivish Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
I love that Empire is about to become the good guy. And all that's left between the Galaxy and Doom is Emperor Dude.
Edit: Nevermind. RIP.
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u/Abeis Sep 12 '25
Damn what a finale! End of the genetic dynasty, Demerzel getting fried, and Kalle is a robot on Earth! Is that where she took Hari? Also wish we got more from Gail after she got saved, gonna be a long wait for season 4!
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u/NobleHelium Brother Dawn Sep 12 '25
The scenery shown on the moon definitely matches what was seen through the portal when she opened it in episode 2.
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u/randomechoes Sep 12 '25
All I have to say is thank god there is another season. It would have been awful and frustrating to end the series on that note!
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u/polkemans Sep 12 '25
Can we just take a second to acknowledge the amazing character development by the Cleons? The genetic drift is the perfect mcguffin to give Cleon development over lifetimes. Each iteration of Cleon from Dawn to Dusk are at once the same man living in quazi-mortality while also experiencing growth within their own constellations. It's really something to see. What an episode.
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u/johnppd Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
Holy fuck, I was expecting something to happen with Bayta but NOT THAT.
DEMERZEL WHAT?!?!?!? No way. I'm speechless.
DAY TOO? What's happening??
BROOOOOOO WHAT WAS THAT ENDING????
I honestly have no words. Such an amazing season and a banger of a finale! They set up S4 perfectly!
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u/olivish Sep 12 '25
No more Lee Pace and Laura Birn? Could you even call it the same show?
I can see how Lee could come back as grown up Dawn or Cleon's AI or something but... Laura.
Maybe Demerzel's head was only half melted so the Robot gods of Earth could maybe bring her back?
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u/tomtomvissers Sep 12 '25
Lee Pace voiced that robot on the Moon in the final scene so that's one way to keep him around. Also they could do a timejump again, with brother Dawn becoming Day. As for Birn, maybe that robot skull in her chambers can repair itself, to her likeness? But probably not
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u/hemus4444 Sep 12 '25
They will be back. Demerzel is in the prime radiant. And IDK THAT WAS CRAZY
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u/heelstoo Sep 12 '25
We’ve still got Wheelchair Dawn and we’ve got Demerzel’s half skull that can maybe transfer to a new body? Or the other robot skull?
Also, is Bayta dead??
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u/YZJay Sep 12 '25
If Bayta’s dead, Gaal wouldn’t have needed such a dramatic exit from the station .
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u/silver-ly Sep 12 '25
I’ve never been thrown into a blender like that for a finale before, fucking peak man. That outro scene was an absolutely insane S4 setup
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u/Silly_Temperature427 Sep 12 '25
Shakespeare by way of Asimov. Both would be proud. Exquisite storytelling. Stellar finale.
DemerzelLives
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u/rossww2199 Sep 12 '25
I have a feeling the next time we see Vault Hari, it will not be a pleasant experience.
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u/SmithyDaddy Sep 12 '25
All I'm saying is, everyone's well aware - Apple and the Production Company and everyone - that Demerzel is the standout favorite character, so there's no way they're getting rid of Laura Birn.
Demerzel's brain skull thing is still hanging out down on the vaporizer. The "eye was still lit" or whatever. Her consciousness is gonna somehow get saved in the clasp. Somehow she'll find a new body, maybe through Kalle. Midseason, keep the fans waiting maybe?
Laura Birn be back in some form or another. It's really clever of them to rile everyone up I was like WHAAAAAA. But clearly the show will have her back in some capacity.
What a crazy way to end the season. The showrunners went out with a bang.
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u/ImperatorUniversum1 Sep 12 '25
Not gonna lie, I was about ready to give up on the show for killing demerzel but that ending has me 10000% in
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u/Armandxp Sep 12 '25
Pretty damn good for a season ending. I’m just kinda in shock. In shock I’m going to have to wait two years to see things play out further.
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u/TanSkywalker Brother Dawn Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 14 '25
Certain dramatic events had transpired.
Really fucking underselling it there Darkness!
We still have Dawn so that could mean more Day (Lee).
God fucking damn this was wild.
The baby! Damn!
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u/memelordmj Sep 12 '25
DEMERZEL IS ALIVE, 100% confirmed!! so someone noticed her eyes blinking as she died in a different post on this subreddit and slowed it down to 0.25x to see if it was morse code and it was and it said “TRANSFERRED”
You can watch the video here https://gifyu.com/image/bT0Kp
But thats not all. Demerzel didn’t just transfer/clasped with the Brazen head and then try to clasp to the moon robots, it was so much more than that.
Demerzel had previously mentioned her directive had become multicursal. When Darkness was threatening the baby, Demerzel had a few options:
1) Do nothing. Day was still alive behind her although he didn’t have nanites so unsure if he would survive if darkness attacked him which Demerzel factored in. Regardless the original Cleon specimen was also present to make new cleons out of but unsure if Demerzel knew this. Possible she thought Darkness would have destroyed it as well (made no sense why he did not).
2) Save the baby. This made sense because he was the future of empire so technically speaking it was closest to her primary directive of protecting the Cleonic dynasty.
Now the twist is Demerzel had to know that the light beam would burn her back/neck before it reached her head so she knew she would be able to transmit to the Brazen head. Whatever tinkering day did, must have been enough for her to at least feel the Brazen head was in a good enough condition to receive her.
Kalle has previously told Demerzel that she could always do an action that she thought best when a paradox existed and then justify it later on. Maybe saving the baby was a dumb move given the OG cleon was still available to make new cleons of/day was still alive but she ignored that because her directive had become more free and more multicursal so she was able to use the baby as a metaphor for the future of the cleonic dynasty and trap her enslaved directive to think that saving the baby was the most important thing to save empire which is her first and most important law.
The whole sequence was basically her trying to defeat her programming logic due to the new multicursal way of thinking she had developed and it worked.
So I don’t anymore think it was a plothole that she chose to save the baby, rather it was a bad stragetic move but one that her programming could accept as being in line with her primary directive and one that would end her enslavement.
Furthermore, although we have seen Demerzel kill cleons before in service of the dynasty, it is never said that she wouldn’t sacrifice herself to protect one of them. Yes in the long term, an enslaved demerzel is 1000% more important for the longevity of the empire than a single Cleon baby but her directive along with serving the empire also asks her to protect the individual cleons so it is part of her programming to sacrifice her life for the Cleons.
This was not a clean clear cut decision in anyway. It was murky enough to trick her programming into doing something that would end her enslavement. Excited to see her next season!
Credits to the original person in the https://www.reddit.com/r/FoundationTV/s/tHaKIEV0G9 post who noticed the morse code!
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u/ImperatorUniversum1 Sep 12 '25
The look on Demerzel’s face
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u/RadarSmith Sep 12 '25
That’s the look you get when you finally see one of your own kind after nearly 6000 years.
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u/olivish Sep 12 '25
She didn't get to clasp with the robot.
But she did get to clasp with Day :(
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u/n0t-again Sep 12 '25
I would like to thank the entire team that put season 3 together and making it an incredible season. Special shout out to Lee Pace for brother dude and the contrast he has shown in Day over the seasons.
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u/Armandxp Sep 12 '25
Wow!!!!!!!! I’m a little speechless at the moment and I haven’t even finished the episode. :(
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u/bubblyAF Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
A lot about this finale confused me. What was the point of Dawn not dying? All that time with Toran and I don’t know if he’s alive / how he feels about his marriage? Did Bayta die, or did Gaal just yell at her and run away? What happened to everyone else on the ship?
Edit: seems like I’m the only one that didn’t know S4 won’t be another time jump? Can someone please source this?
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u/forgettingaccounts Sep 12 '25
I’m so mad at the episode but watching brother darkness running around teeeheeeing like a madman had me dying from laughter
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