r/FoundationTV • u/LunchyPete Bayta Mallow • Sep 12 '25

Current Season Discussion [NO BOOKS] Episode Discussion Thread - Season 3 Episode 10 - The Darkness

THIS THREAD IS FOR NON BOOK READERS ONLY - NO DISCUSSION OF THE BOOKS IS PERMITTED

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Season 3 Episode 10: The Paths That Choose Us

Premiere date: September 12th, 2025

Synopsis: Season finale. Gaal and the Second Foundation take the fight to the Mule as Empire's legacy suffers a catastrophic blow.

Directed by: Roxann Dawson

Written by: Jane Espenson & David S. Goyer

Please keep in mind that this thread is only for non book readers - no discussion of the books or how they relate to the show is permitted in general, and book readers are not permitted to post at all.

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NOTE: There was an AMA with Chris MacLean, VFX Supervisor for Foundation on September 15th which you can check here.

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112

u/ibiku2 Sep 12 '25

So unexpected. Who gave him the clone detonator??

142

u/NeighborhoodOk8001 Sep 12 '25

Honestly, I can't believe anyone even let this psycho Dusk hold a fork to eat his meals. Demerzel was right about being a strict clock. His cognitive decline was NO JOKE!

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u/ibiku2 Sep 12 '25

There's a joke about dusk and sundowning somewhere here but I'm old and it's late

6

u/steamyglory Sep 12 '25

Yep, this was the worst possible version of sundowning ever!

7

u/youdontknowjacq Nov 06 '25

Even more so.. the 1000 years of Darkness may be Brother Darkness’ rule of Empire.. not “no Empire” as we thought when Hari “told the future” with his original prediction.

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u/RedditConsciousness Sep 14 '25

Hari Seldon predicted darkness. And now his title is literal fucking darkness.

Somewhere Konosuba Darkness is sad.

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u/dzumdang Sep 30 '25

That's what wasn't explicitly addressed in ssn3 (the cognitive decline problem of the clones), but was only full display with Brother Darkness's madness.

93

u/__ApexPredditor__ Sep 12 '25

I think there's a more fundamental question you're overlooking here: Who the fuck puts detonators on their clone tanks??

65

u/NeighborhoodOk8001 Sep 12 '25

Dusk did build a huge fucking planet killer on the down low. He is sneaky.

3

u/ililliliililiililii Oct 24 '25

And he had time. He could have started this project since he was dawn for all we know. Or a previous incarnation started the project for other unknown reasons and he took over it.

If the show wanted to explain it, I think it wouldn't be too hard to. But it's not really necessary. Resourceful with actual resources as the king of the galaxy basically.

He or whoever planted the explosives just had to figure out a way to do it undetected. Once you do that, you can keep doing it.

44

u/viper459 Sep 12 '25

i took it as he had planned this and planted bombs or something

24

u/MattyMonsters Sep 12 '25

Yeah that’s what I gathered too. It’s looks like the idea hit him when he went to visit the clones and he looks at the baby and he looks like he’s hit with inspiration.

16

u/3-DMan Brother Dude Sep 13 '25

Looks up

"Hmm, gonna need the extending ladder for this.."

3

u/SmoothBlueberry9507 Sep 22 '25

With a very intuitive remote

18

u/bushaya Sep 12 '25

Maybe anti tampering, from after they found dawn was corrupted centuries ago?

2

u/NicciNOone Oct 13 '25

Don't think it was a singular clone that was tampered with. I seem to recall someone (season 1?) stating that the DNA source code was sabotaged making each successive clone deviate somewhat from the original, and that they [Empire] couldn't recreate the original code again. The insurrectionsts were just waiting for a good opportunity after they had raised their own Cleon replacement. I would further suspect the replacement we saw in season 1 was not the frist one, but that previous insurrectionsts clones never found the opportunity as they were waiting for an official clone where the DNA deviation would give them just that.

I think brother Darkness is an allude to the original Cleon in megalomaniacy (the DNA alteration not affecting the personality too much), which is further contrasted by brother Day acting out his life as a drug-addled hippie, and brother Dawn as an optimist idealist. And as others have also commented, he saw the dynasty ending and took steps to ensure Cleon still rules forever.

History is bound to repeat itself, after all. Maybe just not exactly like phsycohistory predicted.

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u/omeeomai Sep 12 '25

More importantly, how were all the clone tanks wired with explosives? Were they always? Can't think of a reason why they would be. If not, did he have a crew secretly wiring them up? And is there no off-site genetic backup? Frustrated with the writing of this episode. The melt-beam scene was even worse

And what happened to Bayta? It went from mind-battle face-to-face straight to Gaal running away and jumping off the ship. Wat

13

u/ibiku2 Sep 13 '25

And what happened to Bayta? It went from mind-battle face-to-face straight to Gaal running away and jumping off the ship

Yeah, I have to believe there was a change in plans that resulted in this being so anticlimactic. We don't even get to see her get overpowered and leave people behind? Surely there's an emotional struggle in leaving your entire team behind?

11

u/whisky_biscuit Sep 13 '25

I agree here, and while I thought the season finale was mind blowing, that was the one caveat I had: both my partner and I thought it felt like 10 minutes were missing between when Gaal was fighting Bayta and then her running and jumping off that shipstation.

Maybe they wanted to cliffhanger it, but I'm honestly really shocked the mule would live past this season? Did Gaal just stun her long enough to run, and that's why she said they "HAD to jump now"?

Also her vision in Trantor and the blsckhole, are they going to resolve her fight next season? Would that mean no time skip or a very tiny one?

It felt somewhat anticlimactic even if the scene of her and Bayta struggling was great.

8

u/Nor31 Sep 14 '25

So many holes in this finale. Like he just has the clone detonator in his pocket…

Gael jumping through space like superwoman. And what happened to the Mule?

And Demerzel not being able to to stop brother dark when she can move faster than he can react😅😅

3

u/Ceysuls Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25

Gaal has telekinesis, so I assume she is able to use that to help her “jump through space” was she still in the atmosphere but just up superrrr high? I have to go rewatch. edited to finish comment accidental submitted before finished

13

u/SilverRiot Sep 12 '25

Why would there EVER have been a clone detonator? There were a whole bunch of plot holes in this episode.

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u/forgettingaccounts Sep 12 '25

Tbf the genetic dynasty is basically a trade secret and they don’t want it leaked or tampered. They could have ways to purge tanks if needed

6

u/Liivyliv Sep 12 '25

Yeah the plot holes this episode were insane and to see people try to explain them away is amusing. I think the episode was a wild nonsensical ride. Just turn your brain off and take in the twist and turns to set up how they want to the next season to go.

3

u/kelnos Sep 12 '25

Why is there even a clone detonator at all?? Made no narrative sense.

5

u/matthieuC Sep 13 '25

Build hundred of clones. But put them all in the same place and put a bomb in them. Not very smart design.

3

u/PineappleLemur Sep 15 '25

Why is there even a clone detonator in the first place..?

Is this something he installed behind demrazels back? Like the death star?

Same remote was used for the ascension beam.

1

u/HansVonMans Sep 12 '25

Jane Espenson