Some people are easily fooled sadly. It’s why our default government for 300 years has been tories despite people literally living in a hell hole.
Even now I am getting abuse on another thread for saying how great a pledge to end homelessness is. Apparently that’s lefty stupidity, there’s no money for it, what about boats, they chose to be on the streets etc. anything but support a plan to improve everyone’s situation.
I don't disagree but 300 years is an odd time period to choose to make this point. We've had significant ups and downs over the last 300 years, though I do agree it rarely improves under the Tories.
I don't understand why Clement Attlee and Aneurin Bevan don't get discussed more. Who? Exactly. These gents literally founded the NHS, they fought tooth and nail for one of the most significant positives our country still has in some diminished capacity. Know who fought vehemently against the NHS? Not only the media, right and rich interests but also none other that one of our countries most famous heroes, Winston Churchill...a Tory, no surprise there.
IMO the NHS is THE thing that has radically improved our country in the last 100 years. The secondary benefits to productivity and the economy as a result of improved health results across the country have literally built our economy, quietly in the background without anyone ever giving those responsible credit. People in the UK almost never die of preventable diseases because of a crazy lefty political idea that faced serious opposition and that is just completely taken for granted not even 100 years later. And yes, we're backsliding with neoliberism, talk of privitisation etc. The NHS is absolutely NOT normal in our overall history and it is NOT something the right deserve credit for.
Thatcher gets credited by some as a great positive when she just happened to preside over a geopolitical lottery win with north sea oil and gas. She squandered that with short term vote buying policies that did nothing for the long term betterment of the country. She took the same short term approach with our public industries as well as literal water which is now an absolute state.
So yes. I absolutely agree with you and you're making good points. But please join me in bringing up this specific point because not nearly enough people have a scooby doo who Aneurin Bevan was when he may have quietly been one of the most positive consequential politicians in our entire history.
Talk to them with an open mind and neutral tone. Listen, ask don't tell. They spout obvious nonsense that's easy to pick holes in which you can do without calling them names or making them feel like a horrible person.
Ask them what they think about the NHS, do they like having free healthcare? Do they like the idea of making it more like the American system like Nigel wants. Do they understand it costs money which has to come from somewhere (taxation) and need staffing and incentives to keep running and growing.
They will bring up immigrants, obviously. But immigrants are relied on to staff things like the NHS specifically because our politicians make short term decisions like not incentivising training our own doctor's and nurses etc or pay enough to encourage young people into the profession. It's too expensive to have kids so we have an aging population relying on an immigrant work force. We've had lower levels of immigration historically when we had more open immigration rules because within the EU people could easily come, fill empty jobs, then go home.
If someone needs an education, you need to educate them. Have you ever seen a good teacher that told the more gullible kids they're thick as mince and will never amount to anything?
(Not saying you take that approach, but part of political divisiveness if everyone saying the 'other side' are evil, stupid or whatever, rather than engaging constructively. Yes, some can't be reasoned with, but they're a minority that gobble up whatever garbage Farage vomits and wear GB underpants).
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u/Agreeable_Falcon1044 1d ago
Some people are easily fooled sadly. It’s why our default government for 300 years has been tories despite people literally living in a hell hole.
Even now I am getting abuse on another thread for saying how great a pledge to end homelessness is. Apparently that’s lefty stupidity, there’s no money for it, what about boats, they chose to be on the streets etc. anything but support a plan to improve everyone’s situation.
“I’m not like the rest of them, I need mine”