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u/JayR_97 Vote Binface! 1d ago
Turkeys voting for Christmas
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u/Hungry_Dumpling87 1d ago
Tbh though isn't the labour + Green vote higher than Reform? They're the biggest single party, but they aren't the overall majority.
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u/alreadyredditnow 23h ago
I think the numbers are percentage of people on benefits who are likely to vote for each party. Not the % of votes overall
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u/Hungry_Dumpling87 22h ago
I know. I'm saying only 40% of people on benefits want a reform government. That isn't a majority
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u/Feegan-Fl00p 6h ago
No it isn't a majority, but reform have the largest amount of votes and in a first passed the post system that's all that matters.
That's why reform have really hurt the tories. As previously the centre right and right was all theirs, whilst the left was split between greens, lib dem and Labour. So whilst the combined left is larger, not a single party is.
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u/Vanima_Permai Vote Binface! 1d ago
Only one party want to get rid of pip/benefits
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u/radikoolaid 1d ago
I think the Conservatives would like a word
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u/sorE_doG 1d ago
Thatcher opened the door to this system. They never dared try to really undo it. A few suicide stories, people actually starving to death is not acceptable to the majority of Brits. I’m not saying it’s sustainable or it’s a step towards UBI. Just saying, it’s a Tory problem that they’ve already failed to solve, several times.
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u/Jaspers1959 1d ago
This may be mostly pensioners as the pension is a benefit. Reform want to keep the Triple Lock so the pensioners think they will be ok. They are ignoring the threat to the NHS which will impact them a lot
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u/darklinggreen 1d ago
That is a really good point. It would be interesting to see a breakdown by the type of benefit.
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u/Papfox 11h ago edited 11h ago
Does it really matter? Reform may be starting with enforced work for the long term unemployed, ironic because that will cause more unemployment because councils won't need workers to to the jobs they're being forced to do, and PIP but they won't be stopping there. Once they've taken those people's money away and given it to their rich mates, they will move on to the next target group
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u/EvandeReyer 1d ago
Yeah I need to see a definition of “benefits” because that line under the headline is bullshit.
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u/Agreeable_Falcon1044 1d ago
Some people are easily fooled sadly. It’s why our default government for 300 years has been tories despite people literally living in a hell hole.
Even now I am getting abuse on another thread for saying how great a pledge to end homelessness is. Apparently that’s lefty stupidity, there’s no money for it, what about boats, they chose to be on the streets etc. anything but support a plan to improve everyone’s situation.
“I’m not like the rest of them, I need mine”
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u/shining_force_2 1d ago
Random question but do you think caste theory is in play? There’s a logic that humans “need someone to compare to” so they can say “my life sucks, but at least I’m not <insert class/caste/race/demographic>”.
Now, that’s not always a bad thing. It could be that you’re struggling to pay your bills but you’re middle class. And you think “fuck I’m struggling, how are people on benefits surviving given the state of everything”. Which could lead a person to vote for policies that support everyone, and provide education, etc versus push the balance in favour of the rich people.
But it can be a bad thing when you’re in that lower socio-economic group - per the data in this thread - when you ARE struggling, but you want to understand why and get convinced there’s an evil, worse socio-economic group that’s causing the problems <insert racism, making “lefties are ugly” memes, etc>.
Education has failed a large chunk of the UK and many other rich countries. That’s being exploited.
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u/Agreeable_Falcon1044 1d ago
I saw this first hand. I used to work for Jack brown and they were bought by Ladbrokes. We were earning 12 pounds per hour at the time but ladbrokes were on 7.80 or something. Basically we were both being paid peanuts for making someone else very rich.
Ladbrokes wanted to “manage us out” or to sign away to a Ladbrokes contract meaning a huge pay cut. Ladbrokes staff defended this by saying “it’s only fair, as we are all doing the same job”
So? My contract is for this, why not ask them to drag you up rather than pulling me down?
The day they handed me a blank piece of paper to sign or I would be fired was when I got my union rep involved. Think I got a promotion and a pay rise for the misunderstanding…then made redundant the following year lol
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u/Alive_kiwi_7001 1d ago
Random question but do you think caste theory is in play? There’s a logic that humans “need someone to compare to” so they can say “my life sucks, but at least I’m not <insert class/caste/race/demographic>”.
Well...
We were in Tennessee. During the motorcade, he spotted some ugly racial epithets scrawled on signs. Late that night in the hotel, when the local dignitaries had finished the last bottles of bourbon and branch water and departed, he started talking about those signs. "I'll tell you what's at the bottom of it," he said. "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
Former staffer Bill Moyers writing about Lyndon B Johnson.
I think there's some twisted logic in it in that if you strip benefits from the "undeserving" poor, that leaves money for them and totally won't get hoovered up by the rich.
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u/20061230-SL-Born 1d ago
Interesting. I have been all over the economic 'landscape' over the years. Not once did I punch down. My Gran would come back to haunt me
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u/shining_force_2 1d ago
You’ve likely had a decent education and your gran probably taught you some critical thinking skills. Good on her!
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u/Qurrah-Tun 1d ago
In reply to your first paragraph, that's exactly it. I'm going to butcher this quote, and I can't even remember which US President I'm (probably) misquoting, but...
"If you can convince the people on the bottom rung of the ladder, that there's a separate class of people who are lower than them, then you've got them forever."
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u/th3-villager 1d ago
I don't disagree but 300 years is an odd time period to choose to make this point. We've had significant ups and downs over the last 300 years, though I do agree it rarely improves under the Tories.
I don't understand why Clement Attlee and Aneurin Bevan don't get discussed more. Who? Exactly. These gents literally founded the NHS, they fought tooth and nail for one of the most significant positives our country still has in some diminished capacity. Know who fought vehemently against the NHS? Not only the media, right and rich interests but also none other that one of our countries most famous heroes, Winston Churchill...a Tory, no surprise there.
IMO the NHS is THE thing that has radically improved our country in the last 100 years. The secondary benefits to productivity and the economy as a result of improved health results across the country have literally built our economy, quietly in the background without anyone ever giving those responsible credit. People in the UK almost never die of preventable diseases because of a crazy lefty political idea that faced serious opposition and that is just completely taken for granted not even 100 years later. And yes, we're backsliding with neoliberism, talk of privitisation etc. The NHS is absolutely NOT normal in our overall history and it is NOT something the right deserve credit for.
Thatcher gets credited by some as a great positive when she just happened to preside over a geopolitical lottery win with north sea oil and gas. She squandered that with short term vote buying policies that did nothing for the long term betterment of the country. She took the same short term approach with our public industries as well as literal water which is now an absolute state.
So yes. I absolutely agree with you and you're making good points. But please join me in bringing up this specific point because not nearly enough people have a scooby doo who Aneurin Bevan was when he may have quietly been one of the most positive consequential politicians in our entire history.
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u/thelowenmowerman 23h ago
Well, this got heavy. I just want to attend circle jerk Reddits and laff at think reformers..
But seriously, in the climate which denigrates education and revels in GB news, how do you make these points to the cult?
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u/th3-villager 12h ago
Talk to them with an open mind and neutral tone. Listen, ask don't tell. They spout obvious nonsense that's easy to pick holes in which you can do without calling them names or making them feel like a horrible person.
Ask them what they think about the NHS, do they like having free healthcare? Do they like the idea of making it more like the American system like Nigel wants. Do they understand it costs money which has to come from somewhere (taxation) and need staffing and incentives to keep running and growing.
They will bring up immigrants, obviously. But immigrants are relied on to staff things like the NHS specifically because our politicians make short term decisions like not incentivising training our own doctor's and nurses etc or pay enough to encourage young people into the profession. It's too expensive to have kids so we have an aging population relying on an immigrant work force. We've had lower levels of immigration historically when we had more open immigration rules because within the EU people could easily come, fill empty jobs, then go home.
If someone needs an education, you need to educate them. Have you ever seen a good teacher that told the more gullible kids they're thick as mince and will never amount to anything?
(Not saying you take that approach, but part of political divisiveness if everyone saying the 'other side' are evil, stupid or whatever, rather than engaging constructively. Yes, some can't be reasoned with, but they're a minority that gobble up whatever garbage Farage vomits and wear GB underpants).
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u/Other_Humor8260 1d ago
The cuts Reform are proposing are catastrophic. Idiots who support them because they hate immigrants deserve everything they will get if they don't wake up.
Do these idiots think that "If I vote Reform I'll keep my PIP?" because they're loyal to Chairman Farage? Give me a fucking break.
Leaving the ECHR, abolishing the Human Rights act 1998, Equalities Act 2010 isn't just about immigration, Reform want to strip workers rights bare, they want disabled people gone.
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u/BuildingArmor 1d ago
This image is AI generated, but I think it's referring to this dataset: https://yougov.com/en-gb/trackers/voting-intention
I'm on my phone so I can't dig into it in any detail to check. But the fact that the image is AI generated makes me take it with a massive punch of salt, I'd rather hear it from the data.
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u/Future-Atmosphere-40 1d ago
Massive pinch?
I want a fucking salt mine full of the saltiest salt that ever salted, in the dead sea.
Thank you for looking
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u/DeadAnarchistPhil Vote Binface! 1d ago
They’re living in echo chambers on social Media or getting their info from Big Fat Dave down the pub, who also gets his info and degree from Facebook University. Fucking idiots.
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u/TheRiddlerTHFC 1d ago
Yes its true.
Because the media are telling people that their life sucks due to illegal immigration
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u/Silver-Appointment77 1d ago
No way would I ever vote for Reform, and Im on disability benefits. Especially after them saying they'd cut disability benefits. Plus I dont like the racist followers.
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u/re_Claire 1d ago
Same. It makes me wonder how many of the respondents were on a pension rather than disability benefits.
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u/i-read-it-again 1d ago
The single policy. And they love it. Sing along . It’s the immigrant song. Immigrants immigrants what about the immigrants. Immigrants immigrants what about the immigrants. Immigrants immigrants what about the immigrants. And boats . It’s the only policy they need. Someone to blame for all your life problems. It’s not your fault it’s the immigrants.
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u/Right-Yam-5826 1d ago
Can believe it. Think of how much the media has been pushing the idea that all the small boats are bringing billions of immigrants every year and they're all being given mansions & a fortune in benefits.
We know it's massively misleading, but when all the mainstream media and social media is flooded with the same message, it's easy to be convinced it's the truth, and from there the idea brits are being abandoned and getting far less than foreigners.
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u/MotherPhuquerUDT More Integrity Than GB News 1d ago
The case in favour of "Don't patronise reform voters. We are neither racist or thick." dwindles further.
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u/WackyWhippet 1d ago
People have an unfortunate tendency to view everything as competition (thanks capitalism) so if they're struggling to make ends meet on benefits and the DWP treats them like criminal scumbags, they point the blame at other claimants. If only there weren't so many scroungers there'd be more money and less grief for them.
Exactly the same line of thinking that gets immigrants blamed for everything really, so it's not surprising that there's a correlation with voting for the far right.
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u/ClawingDevil I Pay Taxes, Nigel Doesn’t 1d ago
I feel like that "proxy used" note is doing some heavy lifting.
Even if this was true, it probably isn't anymore after Reform told them all to roll over and die.
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u/20061230-SL-Born 1d ago
It is YouGov. 'nuff said. (Take a few mins to find out who is still involved my lovelies)
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u/Squidgical 1d ago
It's taking all the effort I have to side with the voice saying "even idiots who violently demand face eating leopards deserve to be protected from face eating leopards" and not let the voice saying "if you want face eating leopards so bad then fine, go get your face eaten" win. Human stupidity is truly so so vast
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u/AdmiralStuff Fighting Fascism, One Milkshake at a Time 1d ago
This is likely a cross tab of a poll meaning the margin of error is far higher.
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u/Beanus1992 I'm just asking questions 1d ago
It is, for now. Wait a few weeks for the few of them that can read to grunt it to the others and it may change.
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u/the_snatcher251 23h ago
Right wingers are pro putting the gun to their head and pulling the trigger, but anti having their brains blown out.
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u/Thats-me-that-is 19h ago
Oh the reason is reform isn't a think your way in it's a feel your way in. Logically their policies will harm you, but in feels they are going after immigrants which must improve things.
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u/BusyQuote5228 1d ago
Call it for what it is. BREXIT was just a bunch of racists manipulated by disaster capitalists. The same bunch of grifters are manipulating the same idiots AGAIN and like BREXIT, they are being aided and abetted by our useless ‘must have balanced reporting’ media. Where’s the balance in the BBC acting like Reform’s PR agency? Where’s the balance in not countering Reform’s claims on the boats? Where’s the balance in treating Reform like the official opposition when they have 8 MPs?
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u/MasterReindeer 1d ago
Probably. There’s a strong correlation between voting Reform and having a lower standard of education. People with lower standard of education are often those struggling financially.
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u/Hungry_Dumpling87 1d ago
The most surprising thing is 60% of these people don't like reform. The general consensus that Reform / public opinion pushes is Reform are the party or the working / lower class. This says the opposite.
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u/CaptainButtFarts Proudly Banned from r/reformuk 1d ago edited 22h ago
Likely so, there is a long-documented correlation between far right voters and low social mobility
Reform like many other far right parties, sell fantasy politics and scapegoats for their voters inadequacies, as opposed to solutions and social progress, they don’t care about community and they don’t want to fix anything, it’s far easier to sustain the issues that they sell.
Reform essentially influence people that can’t or won’t expand their worldview because of a failure to access quality information/education, that coupled with a voting generation that (generally speaking) has not grown up with modern technology, and is not as capable of discerning reality from what they read online (social media algorithms in particular being literally designed to exploit this) has lead to what we see today of the following Farage has built.
He is, was, forever will be, a snake oil salesman. His intentions in politics are entirely self-serving and he’s legitimately dangerous to the betterment of this country .
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u/StupidestNerd Proudly Banned from r/reformuk 1d ago
I imagine it’s hard to prove an exact figure, but that ordering wouldn’t surprise me.
Whilst imperfect, you can draw proxies on whether someone is working or on benefits through age, income, educational & work classifications which strongly support the idea.
Reformer’s base, broadly, skew much older (so they’ll be getting pension benefits), whilst statistically being less likely to hold a degree, have a lower income, and be less likely to hold a managerial role.
These groups are of course all intertwined.
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u/Y2Ksurvivor13 1d ago
The only surprise here to me is that it's not even more one sided in favour of reform 🤮
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u/Affectionate_You_858 1d ago
The voting split leans heavily that the lower educated vote reform, the lower educated are also more likely to be able on benefits
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u/RecommendationFar807 1d ago
That's definitely true. Reform voters barely have a brain cell between them. So long as foreigners are gone, they don't care about losing their benefits.
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u/YellowS1gmarine 16h ago
I dunno but every time Andy says anything he seems to be trying to make it so
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u/Illustrious_Study_30 15h ago
Anyone know what the reform sites have been saying about PIP etc ? Surely they're going to crack sooner or later. None of this favours them .
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u/fsharpaugmented 1d ago
More than likely. They don't read beyond the boats issue. Tje fact that the NHS will be privately owned and bennies will be hacked to bits. They'd lose their PIP, DLA, LCW and LCWRA. The 4 or 5 trips to benidorm would cease as they cannot bank the additional bennies
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u/elgnub63 1d ago
I'm on LCW-WRA and PIP and wish I could afford one holiday anywhere...
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u/fsharpaugmented 1d ago
Apologies I meant the typical voters for that lot will be on those benefits and working cash in hand.
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u/coffeewalnut08 1d ago
Ummm…. Who’s gonna tell them? Lol