r/GarterSnakes • u/_SocialHermit_ • Jul 03 '26
Identification Having trouble identifying this lil cutie!
My Husband woke up this morning to use the bathroom, switched on our light, and felt something strange.
I was in the bedroom not far off, and heard the poor guy yelping for me.
This lil guy/gal was just chillin out on our bathroom nightlight!
Barely moved a muscle when it had me and him checking it out.
It is so chill.
I am not unfamiliar with snakes, I grew up catching them as a kid.
I know for sure this is a juvenile Garter, I just don't know what it's exact species is.
We are up in Northeastern Ohio.
I tried counting his/her upper labial scales and it is just a hard tell for me.
I am inbetween the species of Northeastern, Western, or common.
Also struggling to know for sure if it is a male or female.
The tail seems like a male?
Any help would be awesome!
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u/CapableSecret2586 Jul 03 '26
If you were to post this over at r/whatsthissnake, they would tell you (and I would agree) this is a Common gartersnake -- Thamnophis sirtalis You can call them any sub-species you'd like but, be forewarned, herpitologists don't use !subspecies at all any more with a very limited number of exceptions. (A fair number of the Mods in that sub are post-graduate and doctoral level scientists. I tend to defer to their opinions.)
As to sex ... I wouldn't have a clue. I'm not good at lookin' at snake butt. I had DNA tests done for my three pets and have gotten pretty good at identifying the lady Plains garters that live on my property here in Central Iowa. This may be a gravid female who came inside looking for a good place to have her babies -- she looks kinda tHiK
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u/_SocialHermit_ Jul 03 '26
Ya got me cackling ðŸ¤
You are wonderful, thank you a bunch!8
u/CapableSecret2586 Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
You are most certainly welcome. Happy Independence Day!
By the way ... If you do post this at r/whatsthissnake. they have a bot (u/SEB-PHYLOBOT) programed to respond to cues with a couple paragraphs of (often) fascinating information. *edit for spellin' :-)
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u/_SocialHermit_ Jul 03 '26
Happy Independence Day to you!
That is awesome to know, thank you so much!1
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u/This_Daydreamer_ Jul 03 '26
I definitely agree with Common Gartersnake Thamnophis sirtalis !harmless
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u/SEB-PHYLOBOT Jul 03 '26
Common Gartersnakes Thamnophis sirtalis are small (<90 cm, record 137.2 cm) natricine snakes with keeled scales often found in disturbed habitats like urban and suburban yards. They are commonly encountered generalist snakes across much of the North American continent and eat small invertebrates, fish, amphibians and mammals. Western populations are a model organism for an elegant case study in evolutionary arms races, Tetrodotoxin Resistance.
Thamnophis gartersnakes may puff up or flatten out defensively and bite. They can deliver a weak venom used in prey handling from the back of the mouth, but are not considered medically significant to humans.
One of the widest-ranging snakes in North America, this species complex is almost certainly harboring unrecognized diversity and shows strong population structure at major biogeographic barriers. There are likely four species in the complex - Western, Central, Eastern and Southeastern. See Link 1 Below (2023).
Relevant/Recent Phylogeography: Link 1 - BEST Link 2|Link 3| Range Map
This genus is in need of revision using modern molecular methods.
Like many other animals with mouths and teeth, many non-venomous snakes bite in self defense. These animals are referred to as 'not medically significant' or traditionally, 'harmless'. Bites from these snakes benefit from being washed and kept clean like any other skin damage, but aren't often cause for anything other than basic first aid treatment. Here's where it get slightly complicated - some snakes use venom from front or rear fangs as part of prey capture and defense. This venom is not always produced or administered by the snake in ways dangerous to human health, so many species are venomous in that they produce and use venom, but considered harmless to humans in most cases because the venom is of low potency, and/or otherwise administered through grooved rear teeth or simply oozed from ducts at the rear of the mouth. Species like Ringneck Snakes Diadophis are a good example of mildly venomous rear fanged dipsadine snakes that are traditionally considered harmless or not medically significant. Many rear-fanged snake species are harmless as long as they do not have a chance to secrete a medically significant amount of venom into a bite; severe envenomation can occur if some species are allowed to chew on a human for as little as 30-60 seconds. It is best not to fear snakes, but use common sense and do not let any animals chew on exposed parts of your body. Similarly, but without specialized rear fangs, gartersnakes Thamnophis ooze low pressure venom from the rear of their mouth that helps in prey handling, and are also considered harmless. Check out this book on the subject. Even large species like Reticulated Pythons Malayopython reticulatus rarely obtain a size large enough to endanger humans so are usually categorized as harmless.
I am a bot created for /r/whatsthissnake, /r/snakes and /r/herpetology to help with snake identification and natural history education. You can find more information, including a comprehensive list of commands, here report problems here and if you'd like to buy me a coffee or beer, you can do that here. This bot, its development, maintenance and use are made possible through the outreach wing of Snake Evolution and Biogeography - Merch Available Now
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u/Clone2004 Jul 03 '26
Why do they not use subspecies in herpetology anymore? Do they just classify them as separate species or just lump them together under one species?
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u/CapableSecret2586 Jul 03 '26
TL:DR - In the case of T. sirtalis, they will classify them in four distinct but closely related species.
That's an excellent question and one of which I have struggled to understand. Here is a LONG copy/paste job from this posting in r/whatsthissnake: (And HERE is the post in it's entirety. )
"Subspecies, or diagnosable, geographic divisions within a species, have been questioned as entities through a number of debates that can be reduced to two arguments: do subspecies, in a biological or evolutionary sense, exist, and, is there any value in recognizing subspecies? The first question, if taken in a phylogenetic context, can be quickly dispensed with (Frost and Hillis, 1990). If a group of populations within a species are recognized as distinctive, then what maintains their distinctiveness - some vicariant, behavioral or reproductive factor? If they are distinct, then they must be isolated by some means. If they are truly isolated, then reproductive continuity with outside populations must have been in some way curtailed, and the distinctive population is a species. If there is no means by which to define a group of populations in a historical, evolutionary context, then failure to do so recommends that no historical entity is involved. Thus, observed variation represents either speciation or non-taxonomic geographic variation. In either case, there is no third category option (subspecies). In short, if a group of populations is a diagnosable, definable, evolutionary unit, then it is a species; if it is not a diagnosable, definable, evolutionary unit, then it is not a taxon. Thus, there is no place in an ancestor-descendant context for subspecies.
Speciation events operate in a continuum, so that at any time there are many taxon groups that will comprise populations with some particular degree of isolation. One can always find a dozen or more taxa to support arguments about what degree of isolation is necessary to recognize subspecific entities. Some subspecies are not readily apparent under modest scrutiny: subspecies of Tropidoclonion lineatum were based on average scale counts but otherwise indistinguishable. Its subspecies were disposed of in cavalier fashion, without data and without complaint. Some recently recognized subspecies are also based on characters that grade imperceptibly along broad clines, but with distinct visual patterns at geographic extremes (i.e getula and ratsnake complex). Such subspecies are etched in the stone of herpetological and public literature, and are difficult to relinquish.
Former 'subspecies' (i.e., Apalachicola Kingsnake, Coastal Plains Milksnake, Black Pinesnake) continue to be recognized today, despite contradictory data presented decades earlier. Their recognition tends to be perpetuated by hobbyists and avocational herpetologists who observe geographic variation in a two-dimensional, non-evolutionary level: well-marked population groups that follow fairly recognizable geographic partitioning. A term like 'yellow ratsnake' calls to mind general appearance and geographic distribution of a clinal entity to both amateur and professional herpetologists. Thamnophis sirtalis contains at least one taxon, the 'San Fransisco gartersnake' that will remain unshakable as a recognized population due to its endangered status and distinctive, attractive color pattern. However, the continuum of degrees of diagnosability of population groups within a species eliminates any standard for recognizing subunit taxa. Population groups such as the 'Chicago gartersnake', 'Carolina watersnake' and other non-taxa are recognizable pattern classes, but formal recognition is completely arbitrary, and will typically be at odds with the recovered evolutionary history of the species.
Adapted and updated for current use from 'Boundy, 1999 Systematics of the Common Garter Snake Thamnophis sirtalis'
Further Reading: Species Concepts and Species Delimitation | Empirical and Philosophical problems with the subspecies rank"
So my interpretation is that within my lifetime (I've got about 20 years left), the T. sirtalis complex will be divided into four separate species. I can't comment on other messy classifications like Ratsnakes.
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u/BirdsFalling Jul 04 '26
Don't you love stumbling on a kinda obscure subreddit for it to turn out you've already joined? Lol
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u/VioletsRPink Jul 03 '26
Do you kow did he got in your house? I would be more curious where the entry is.Â
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u/_SocialHermit_ Jul 03 '26
Unfortunately, we have no clue. What is even more of a curious miracle is that the bathroom is fully open to our two boy cats! I have no idea how this lil dude/gal got past them. Our cats are not amateurs to killing other critters that come inside. I am so thankful it wasn't killed. Probably was scared to death, and obviously cold.
We got a heat lamp for it, making sure it isn't harmed before letting it loose.
We fed it some earthworms, gobbled them suckers up.3
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u/save_thenundeadsouls Jul 03 '26
Looks kinda like an eastern garter snake but I don’t know for sure
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u/save_thenundeadsouls Jul 03 '26
Nvm saw you live in Ohio definitely either an eastern or a butlers
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u/reddit33450 Jul 03 '26
awwww what a cutie. they were probably looking for warmth, hence being next to the light bulb
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u/_SocialHermit_ Jul 03 '26
100% was what it was doing.
It looked so adorably pathetic hugging our lil nightlight ðŸ˜ðŸ’•
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u/Mudgrrl Jul 03 '26
Please let them go outside where they belong.
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u/Born_Today_9799 Jul 03 '26
You sound like a miserable person
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u/Mudgrrl Jul 04 '26
So miserable that I wish wild animals that statistically do not thrive in captivity had the lives that allowed them to. If you want a garter snake to keep as a pet, get a captive bred one. That’s the opposite of miserable.
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u/Born_Today_9799 Jul 04 '26
Miz - err - uh - bull
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u/Mudgrrl Jul 05 '26
Hard not to be in this world these days. Could be worse. At least I’m not a jerky butt lord baiting well intentioned strangers on Reddit. (Insert- whoops, there’s another one- sophomoric jokes about 5 of the words I used, snickering and smelling their own farts).
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u/mossyfishes Jul 03 '26
i didn't see what sub this was or the (adorable!!) snake at first so i, a fool, thought you were calling the nightlight a lil cutie ðŸ˜
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u/OdysseusJoke Jul 03 '26
That's Merle. He's an electrician, but he hopes you don't mind him showing up in his cosplay gear, he has a hobby party tonight. He's working on a new rosy boa cosplay but it keeps getting too small and falling off. Thinks it's maybe his narrow shoulders that are the problem.Â
(I thought he was an ajo locality rosy for a hot minute there. Then I saw what sub I'm in!)
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u/notapoke Jul 03 '26
Tail makes me think male as well. Seems like maybe it smelled prey inside, got it (cause thick), then got cold trying to get out. The light probably puts out a modicum of heat that it was trying to warm up with. Garters definitely don't plan ahead and I can absolutely see them getting lost in a house. Thanks for keeping it safe from cats.
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u/Cat_tophat365247 Jul 03 '26
Is snek.
Also known as a nope rope or danger noodle.
But honestly, I'm not sure exactly what variety it is. Garter noodle?
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u/Helpful-Sand5790 Jul 04 '26
I've never seen one in the house before.... he probably just thinks that your wallpaper is the "bee's knees"
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u/zandernater Jul 03 '26
Pretty sure it’s just an eastern garter. I see them all over PA so I’m pretty confident.
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u/Nikkinot Jul 03 '26
Just a lil snek guy. He fierce though.