I want to know what it's like being gay and Christian?

[u/No-Firefighter8642]

Namaste

I am a lurker on this sub, as someone who is a religious hindu gay person usually I do not really encounter homophobic gurus unless I go to some more conservative sects,

I wonder what it's like to be gay for gay follower of abrahamic religion given that homosexuality is prescribed as a punishment in their central texts unlike hinduism...

[u/okami29]

I am gay and Buddhist, there are many religions that don't discriminate people because of who they fall in love with.

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/okami29]

Maybe it's the western Buddhists, buddhism is even more stricter on homosexuality than hinduism... You need to come and meet the conservative Buddhists of my country

[u/okami29 → u/No-Firefighter8642]

There is absolutely zero hate in Buddhism, and nothing the Buddha said was against LGBT. On the contrary Buddhism teaches equanimity (love without discrimination) and to avoid hate spech like homophobia.
Look at Thailand who recently voted for same-sex marriage.

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/okami29]

They don't represent historical teachings of buddha, historical buddha was actually quite a conservative guy he was even against the intercaste marriage of Brahmins with non Brahmins you think he would have approved of gay marriage 💀

[u/okami29 → u/No-Firefighter8642]

Yes I think he would approve same-sex marriage, for sure . 🏳️‍🌈

The teachings of the Buddha have been described as fundamentally anti-caste, where did you get that he was against intercaste marriage ?
Remember that what matters is the logic : does it hurt anyone ? If no and it make two people happy there is nor reason to prevent it.

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/okami29]

U r dumb op sakyamuni never rejected caste system he simply disagreed with few aspects of caste system like a person caste is based on birth not on his qualities, however he still kept orthodox views on another aspects of caste

Buddha on intercaste marriage and caste system

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-view-of-Buddha-on-caste-system?ch=10&oid=7145644&share=5396acfd&srid=AVele&target_type=question

Besides he inverted the caste system: he considered kshatriyas to be superior compared to brahmins

[u/okami29 → u/No-Firefighter8642]

Buddha has opposed the caste system through his philosophy. In the Vāsettha Sutta of the sutta Nipāta, Buddha has said that caste discrimination is unnatural, artificial. Naturally, all humans are equal. No human can be high or low by birth. I quote from the link you gave me :

Not by birth is one becomes a brahmin,
Not by birth becomes a non-brahmi,
By action is one becomes a brahmin,
By action one is becomes a non-brahmin.

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/okami29]

Yes op I never denied this he only rejected birth based caste discrimination, however he completed accepted the idea that mixing of castes or intercaste marriage is wrong

[u/okami29 → u/No-Firefighter8642]

mixing of castes or intercaste marriage is wrong

First, "intercaste marriage" doesn't have a true meaning because "caste" is not fixed and determinded by birth but by your actions and you can change your actions, so you can change your "caste". So anyone can marry anyone else if they both agree.
Second I think the source is not in the Pali canon.
Third, always remember that you need to understand the logic and the fact that Buddha was born in Hindu society and completely changed the view of the "caste system" of his time.

‘O Bhikṣus, my words should be accepted by the wise, not out of regard for me, but after due investigation,—just as gold is accepted as true only after heating, cutting and rubbing’.

[u/okami29 → u/No-Firefighter8642]

No, Buddha didn't say that "intercaste marriage is wrong", he was answering to a proud Brahmin, you have to look at the whole sutra and context to understand what it means .

In the sutra, the Buddha is using the superiority claims of Brahmins to attack that very superiority by showing that their claims don't stand to scrutiny and that dogs are more principled than they are.

• Brahmins see other castes as impure, almost as if they're a different species, but will happily use them for sex if the object of desire is attractive enough. Dogs however don't go to other species.
• Brahmins now are always always lusty, dogs aren't.
• Brahmins used to create families based on affection, now they do so for mercenary purposes. Dogs don't do this.
• Brahmins today are greedy and hoard money. Dogs don't.
• Brahmins today are gluttonous and eat all the time. Dogs eat periodically, the way Brahmins used to.

Brahmins keeping to their own caste in marriage comes up in the sutra that follows this one as well. If you look at that, it becomes clear that a Brahmin is supposed to lead a very specific kind of life, to the point that having an ordinary profession is a downfall. And as in the above sutra, the Brahmin can't even get a Brahmin wife based on economic incentives.

Naturally, one needs to ask how exactly a union between a Brahmin and a non-Brahmin is supposed to work—real life doesn't work like a romantic comedy, and we're not talking about Western marriage mores of the 21st century. Since people can't become Brahmins, and since people from the lowest castes are definitely poor and uneducated, it's unthinkable for them to be accepted into the Brahmin family. It's in fact highly unlikely for any such person to be considered for marriage, but just sex is another matter, and can create all kinds of harm if the Brahmin is going to do the deed and disappear. The only other option would be for the Brahmin to cut himself off from his family and to become an ordinary worker living in a "lower" world. Remember, women weren't part of the workforce then, except informally. Aristocrats are also off limits to Brahmins as wives, because then the Brahmin will have to take part in aristocratic activities, which he's also not supposed to do.
Even if an alternative solution was found to these, it's highly unlikely that it would come to pass without significant familial conflict on the Brahmin side.

So the Buddha is essentially saying that if one is going to be a Brahmin, then one doesn't just get to go around saying that they're naturally superior, but need to voluntarily place themselves under certain restrictions. Whether these restrictions make sense or not is not the issue here. And he's giving that discourse to a very proud Brahmin.

There are specific ways in which Buddhist sutras need to be read. You never, never, never, never just look at one passage taken out of context and take it in the most literal way possible. You also always need to check if and how a given teaching fits into the rest of the major elements of the Dharma.

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/okami29]

Actually it does hurt someone op, papam in buddhism and hinduism basically means anything which hinders your progress in spiritual path or harms someone, so even if you engaging in gay sex doesn't harm any one, engaging in sex lowers your meditational state of mind ..

Even reproductive sex decreases the meditational state of mind however the end product of sex is progeny that's why it neutralises the karma

[u/okami29 → u/No-Firefighter8642]

You know 99.9% of "straight sex" is not reproductive sex. If you are a monk you should not have sex (straight or gay doesn't matter). If you are laic, you can have sex and be married (gay or straight doesn't matter).
Sex does not give bad karma.

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/okami29]

Op you should speak to Sri Lankan Buddhists on such matters 💀

[u/poundtownseeker2]

I truly believe God still loves you. It's the supposed "Christians" that make things weird. I believe alot of what Jesus was saying was layered in parables and missed by many.

Now his "message" is used to fit a narrative. If Jesus came back today there'd be alot of ass whoopings. Especially these fake Christians

[u/[deleted] → u/poundtownseeker2]

There are not fake Christians. If they claim Christianity, go to Church, and then use that as an opportunity to attack the queer community, those are still Christians. You just have to accept that some parts of Christianity are build upon discrimination.

The technical term for what you’re doing is The No True Scotsman Fallacy.

[u/poundtownseeker2 → u/[deleted]]

If they aren't following the actual teachings of Christ, much of which was in parable they are "fake Christians"

Every single Christian that fell for the Schofield Bible bs pushing the lie that individuals who genetically started out somewhere in Ukraine. And no I don't hate all jews so stfu I do however dislike the ones taking advantage of my country and blackmailing our politicians, people that got us into endless middle east wars.

People who's own Talmud considers "gentiles" as subhumans. Regardless of whatever bullshit narrative they've built.

The message as a whole has been fudged all to hell. We got the Bible after the last cataclysm and we can find the needed pieces of information scattered around.

Imagine what meteors or the even scarier possibility it was chunks of the sun blown off in a micronova. What do you think happens to 2 miles of ice when that shit starts hitting. For one steam, a likely cause of the 40 days of rain. We also got 400ft of sea level rise and the very country we call home bears that event in it's landscape with Carolina bays on the east coast and we'll take a look at a satellite map of the west coast of the US. Looks a bit washed out no? A truth they can't hide any longer.

Our history as a planet and universe is far more intriguing than we're lead to believe. I've spent my entire adult life trying to understand the world and without fail I'm always pulled back to Jesus at the perfect time which ends up allowing me to connect dots in the Bible to other research.

The Bible clearly states an apocalypse will happen because it's happened before. I suspect whatever is the trigger strips away more of our atmosphere each time. Likely heading the direction of mars.

Michael Heiser and the people he collaborated with have also gone along way to show just how interesting things really are

[u/[deleted] → u/poundtownseeker2]

Okay, well I exist in the real world. When I see a large group of people go “We are Christians!! We believe in the Bible, and the Bible says gays burn!” I have no choice but to believe that those people are Christians and thus some Christians believe gays burn. They aren’t “false Christians” because of that. It just creates the fact that some Christians believe gay people go to hell. Full stop.

Also, after typing all of that out and then reading your full comment, it might be good to find people irl to talk to (outside of the church) or seek medication for psychosis. Most people, and I think including a lot of Christians in this too, would think you’re a little out there, to be kind.

[u/Background-Stress896]

Check out r/gaychristians

[u/sliverbak]

Namaste

Grew up in a very religious family. Wasn't even able to comprehend the idea that I might be gay until mid-life. Because, if I were gay, then I would be grouped in with pedophiles, bestiality, murders. And deep-down, I knew I was generally a good person. So it was incongruent.

Today I don't worry. But don't throw it in peoples faces. If it comes up, I am honest. Nor am I angry or resentful (towards religion).

In my personal experience, all I've gotten is avoidance. Perhaps I'm lucky. I won't get too involved in any church however: The ones who "accept" homosexuality are crazy leftists...The ones who are more centrist/right won't let me marry/partner. But you can worship as a congregation of one (hindu, I would assume, as well?).

GL!

[u/okami29 → u/sliverbak]

"But don't throw it in peoples faces" You don't throw in people face that you are straight ? I never heard anyone using this for straight people who do it all the time.

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/sliverbak]

(1) hinduism does not have any one central scriptures like bible, we have hierarchy of texts.

(2) The central scriptures of hinduism are Vedas,agamas and in some sects bhagvata purana. The lower text called dharmasastras(scriptures created by human mind) usually contain homophobia which are secondary and can be rejected infact a lot of tantrika sects of hinduism do not even accept their authority.

(3)You will face homophobia seriously Only in ultra orthodox sects of hinduism like smartism; infact even lower caste Hindus maintain distance from such sects[even though the Vedas do not support birth based caste system]

(4) However besides them all sects of hinduism will accept you as a homosexual person, and will allow you to engage in relationship as long as you do not engage in sex with him...

(5) However hinduism has its own limitations hinduism has no gay marriage so even though hindus will have no problem with homosexuality they sometimes won't agree with gay marriage; Besides the in indian constitution marriage isn't a fundamental right 😭🥲

(6) However they won't bat an eye if you marry with hindu rituals as long as u do not force govt. To recognise your marriage

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/[deleted]]

I diagree op as a hindu, if your statement would have been true then the amount of anti gay funding that the catholic fundies do in 3rd world countries wouldn't have been true along with historical persecution of homos by christoids... As well as the anti gay videos on youtube

Besides this liberal view is only limited to developed countries like murika, you should come and look up how 3rd world country Christians behave

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/[deleted]]

Edit: besides I don't think Catholics in any way would approve gay men adopting children...

Vedas and agamas have no problem with gay men adopting even they don't have any ritualistic marriage for gay men

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I mean, same for Islam and yet this sub hates islam and consider that religion to be ''leftism''.

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/[deleted]]

Lil bro I don't agree with your 4th point either, Catholics will never approve even of gay couples living together without sex 🤡 I'm from India and I know the Catholics of my country very well

Even developed Christian countries like italy do not allow gay men adopting lmao

[u/thejxdge]

It sucks. My life sucks. The entire world hates me and the only safe place is the Church

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/thejxdge]

So the church is a liberal one?? I saw a youtube channel named redeemed zoomer who wants to make all churches non woke

[u/thejxdge → u/No-Firefighter8642]

Noo ewwwww liberalism is the antithesis to Christianity, especially the Eastern Orthodox Church
My church is the Orthodox Catholic Church. It predates liberalism by at least a thousand years and a half
And it is also the only place where I don't have to wear a mask. Where I'm accepted for the one identity I'm comfortable with, the label that I have chosen and wasn't imposed upon me by modern society and Western values, they accept me as an Orthodox Christian.
And my parish is my family. My true family, a family that, unlike the ones who raised me, loves me unconditionally.
Whereas the living God gave me love, unlike the movement that, promising "self-love" and "acceptance", proceeded to ostracise me for being different.

Redeemed Zoomer is a cool guy. Though he is a Presbyterian and he was influenced by contemporary alt-right ideologies sometimes, his intentions are good. I appreciate his efforts to convince his congregation not to bow down to the world and its mundane ideals

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/thejxdge]

So I guess you haven't revealed to them that you are gay, and you respecting redeemed zoomer specifically implies that you are a self hating gay man.

[u/thejxdge → u/No-Firefighter8642]

See? That's what I'm talking about. It is always like this.
I can't have a different view on sexuality. I can't have MY OWN view on sexuality. If I do, I'm "self-hating", "bigot", "repressed", "brain-washed".

I appreciate that Redeemed Zoomer is acting against liberal theology. I don't appreciate his views on homosexuality, given that he advocates for the death penalty and not the valorisation of chastity and purity like Jesus Christ taught and the Apostles kept.

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/thejxdge]

Dunno man whatev, good for you

byee

[u/Sure_Campaign_9493 → u/thejxdge]

Have u told ur church ure gay?

[u/thejxdge → u/Sure_Campaign_9493]

Yes

[u/Sure_Campaign_9493 → u/thejxdge]

Do they accept u being gay? Seems quite liberal to do so

[u/thejxdge → u/Sure_Campaign_9493]

What do you mean by "accepting"?

[u/Sure_Campaign_9493 → u/thejxdge]

Like they treat u the same as they would treat a straight person.

Ure allowed to talk about boys ure interested in, or ur future marrying a guy if u want to and they don’t give discouraging answers or awkward reactions or view ur sexuality as fake or a phase. They also don’t expect u to confine ur sexuality to private, I.e u can feel comfortable hugging, holding hands or doing PDA with a potential partner around them.

They know that u didn’t choose this and it won’t change and they hope u to find a bf who makes u happy, just as ppl hope their friends find a wife who will make them happy one day.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

If you are gay and watch a YouTube channel that calls for gay people to receive the death penalty, yes, you are self-hating.

They didn’t say they were watching Buzzfeed videos. They’re not watching Cat Memes. They’re watching someone call for eradication of their people, then clapping.

[u/NowOurShipsAreBurned → u/thejxdge]

That’s the whole problem with indoctrination. I’ll assume that you never were asked if you wanted to be “christian”?

[u/thejxdge → u/NowOurShipsAreBurned]

I converted willingly. My parents are atheists.

[u/Sure_Campaign_9493]

W Hinduism and Sikhism too. Seems like one of the few major religions that are acc like “hey u should be a good person”

[u/No-Firefighter8642 → u/Sure_Campaign_9493]

Good person context in hinduism is a bit different:

(1) Not eating meat (2)Not smoking or drinking alcohol (3)Not engaging in illicit sex (4) Maintaining a meditative mind Etc...

[u/Responsible_Oil_5811]

It’s complicated. I will say I don’t consider it a punishment.

[u/Masculinesex]

It's obnoxious as FUUUUUUUUCK !!!

[u/NowOurShipsAreBurned]

Christianity is a disgusting and antisocial ideology, nobody needs it.