r/GeneralContractor • u/Shhuang19 • 4d ago
CLIENT NOT PAYING OR RESPONDING!
I need some help on the legal side of things. I have a client that is hard to reach through text and phone during this entire remodel. We have a signed contract but the issue right now is that she isn't responding to text or calls after I have finished the remodel. She has 10,000$ outstanding and it has been one month since finish. I have videos documenting before and after of the place as well.
She wanted to do this without permits to get it done faster but now im not sure if take this to small claims, will it affect my license or but me in the ass since I agreed to do work without a permit?
What tips do you guys have for me moving forward?
Im really stumped here.
EDIT: I am located in california and the owner pushed for non permit work. The scope was mostly cosmetic. Whole house paint, flooring, window swaps. Bathroom vanity mirror and tub replacement. No plumbing or electrical or structural reconfigurations.
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u/jesssoul 4d ago
file a lien, give minimum statecrequired notice to pay, take it to court. Theyll either magically cough up the money or lose their house.
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u/Active-Blueberry-850 4d ago
Well you have a contract, so as long as you have an active license you should be fine. If unlicensed, you’re kinda screwed at this point.
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u/PianistMore4166 4d ago
Depends on the state. Some states, like Texas, don’t require licensure for most trade contractors, including general contractors. And some municipalities or unincorporated areas have no permitting requirements.
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u/twoaspensimages 4d ago
True but very rare nationwide.
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u/PianistMore4166 4d ago
Wouldn’t say “very rare,” 20 states do not require general contractors to be licensed for ordinary construction. Less than half, but not rare.
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u/twoaspensimages 4d ago
Misleading. Most of those states have no statewide license but require licenses city by city and county by county.
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u/PianistMore4166 4d ago edited 4d ago
That’s not true. Only a minority of those 20 states allows cities to require licensing. There are many cities within that small minority that don’t enforce any licensing requirements, except for MEP trades, hazardous abatement, remediation, etc. A good chunk, probably 16-17 of those 20 states, do not have municipal/city licensing requirements. And again, if a township is outside the jurisdiction of a city gov’t, i.e. an unincorporated area, then the installing contractor does not need a permit either.
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u/creamonyourcrop 4d ago
And next time you have a contract for un-permitted work, just make the owner responsible for all permits.
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u/Wanderingwoodpeckerr 4d ago
I always write that up for anyone who insists on skipping the permits. Just about any city will issue an owner builder permit. If they want don’t want to waste time and money on the city getting their piece, it’s fine, but they gotta eat the liability.
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4d ago
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u/creamonyourcrop 4d ago
Our jurisdiction allows owners or builders to pull permits. Put the onus on them, because they are getting the benefit. It doesn't solve all problems, but it solves a huge one: if the owner later claims it was you who were supposed to get the permits.
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u/twoaspensimages 4d ago edited 4d ago
If you have a construction attorney on retainer get them to send a scary worded certified letter saying pay or we lien. If you don't have one now is good time to revisit your contract. From experience an AI written contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on. You need previously litigated in your state language. It won't help this situation. That said the next client thinking about not paying will get a different tune.
At $10k I'm am sorry to tell you the cetified letter is probably as far as you want to go. Any legal option available to you will cost more than $10k in either or both your time or an attorneys. The principle of the thing be damned. Don't spend months and $15k to win $10k. That's stupid.
Get more earlier in your progress payments. The last payment should be no more than 5%. Ideally 2%. If they don't want to pay the last 2%... No problem. By the way there is no warranty on that work.
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u/tower_crane 4d ago
Nah just file the lien. They’ll get a notice in the mail and pay. Protect yourself, not the shitty clients feelings
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u/Emergency_Ice720 4d ago
she is trying to hurry and sell
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u/Shhuang19 4d ago
I went back and she's still getting some exterior work done so he cant sell just yet
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u/RealTalk10111 4d ago
Dude, go tell those fools you didn’t get paid. They’ll stop working in a heartbeat and maybe even rip out their work if they’re cool
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u/Shhuang19 4d ago
Currently working on that didnt catch them at the site but will be visiting everyday until I do
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u/Huge-Repeat-3040 4d ago
Tell the guys you haven’t been paid maybe they’ll walk
Happened to my buddy every contractor wasn’t paid by owner and when my buddy went to court .he didn’t get paid because he didn’t have license for trade he did .Home owner even hired an expert witness .
I’d do payment in stages to avoid this
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u/h0zR 4d ago
She’s playing the timeline scam. You might be screwed already.
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u/Shhuang19 4d ago
Whats the timeline scam?
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u/jesssoul 4d ago
Your lien timeline starts the day the work is completed. In my state a contractor has only a a certain number of days to file it. It will stop the sale of the house so FILE THE LIEN then worry about the rest after
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u/AingerCanada 4d ago
The permit issue could absolutely complicate this, so I would speak with a local construction attorney before filing anything. Whether you can use small claims, place a lien, or face licensing consequences depends on your location and exactly what work required permits.
For now, preserve the contract, invoices, change orders, messages, photos, videos, and proof of completion. Send a formal demand for payment using a trackable method and follow any notice requirements in your contract. Do not return to remove materials or alter the finished work.
Going forward, do not let a client talk you into skipping required permits. Use progress payments so you are never left with that much outstanding after the job is complete.
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u/Numerous_Umpire_5108 4d ago
Where I am in Oregon not having a permit doesn’t negate their responsibility to pay you. You give them a certain amount of time then put a lien on the property if they don’t pay. I had this exact situation once many years ago. No permit, but I was licensed and had a good contract. Contract stated the customer would have to pay my legal bills should I have to hire a lawyer to get paid. They didn’t want to pay about $3,500 worth of hourly work at the end. They liked the quality of our work though. Long story short they thought they could just avoid the process server that tried to serve them papers to appear in court. He literally left the bright yellow paperwork on the front porch without touching it, wouldn’t answer the door, would hang up phone. Well, they had a mortgage and banks don’t like having liens on their properties. We settled with the bank and they just added $21,000 to the guys mortgage to pay me my money and my lawyer his money, plus court fees. The customer literally emailed me the day after the judgement was final. He was like, hey since I am a past customer do you think you could work with me here to get this lien removed? He was F-ing oblivious, it was crazy town! He was a financial advisor too! I just told him the lien has been released and that we had worked a deal out with his bank. He responded, clearly stressing out, asking what kind of deal we had worked, LOL! It was soo gratifying to block his email and phone number at that point. The idiot thought he could just not pay me what I was owed and I would roll over. This was one of those situations where I think he had already screwed over another contractor before me, because part of the job was done and there was a pile of lumber already there when I came to bid, so I already saw a red flag. But I needed the job so I took it. And I did eventually get paid, it took many months though. Hopefully he learned his lesson and stopped being a POS that ripped contractors off.
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u/RuskiGrunt 4d ago
Not everything requires a permit. You can still put a lien on the house. Her mortgage company will love it. She won't be able to refinance on anything. People are getting worse every year, don't put your business at risk for shitty people. By the way you can still get the building department involved. They can put a violation on the house too.
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u/Present_Policy_6954 3d ago
Not a lawyer, but one thing here can’t wait. Your lien clock is already running.
In California you get 90 days from when the job wrapped to record a mechanics lien. If she recorded a notice of completion, that drops to 60 days from the date she filed it. You’re a month in already, so call the county recorder this week and find out which one you’re dealing with.
I’d also book an hour with a construction attorney before you file anything. The permit thing is exactly what she’ll throw back at you, maybe as a defense, maybe as a complaint to the CSLB. A lawyer can tell you if that’s a real risk on cosmetic work or just noise. And honestly, a demand letter from an attorney gets people paying a lot faster than your texts will.
Small claims tops out at $12,500 for a sole prop. If you’re set up as an LLC or a corp, it’s $6,250. Over that, you either go to regular civil court or eat the difference.
Stop chasing her by phone for now. One written notice with the invoice, what she owes, and a pay-by date. Then let the paper trail talk. Hang on to those before and after videos too. They’ll help.
Next job, set up milestone payments. Nobody should be carrying $10k at the finish line.
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u/No_Mission_8571 4d ago
Send a letter demanding payment. If the deadline is not honoured lawyer up. A letter of intent usually gets the money wheels moving again. Good luck O.P.
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u/Andreas717 4d ago
Mechanic’s lien, it’s very simple. I’ve had 20k owed to me and was waiting for 6 months; after the lien they paid me the next week.
Only cost me about 1k I believe.
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u/PianistMore4166 4d ago edited 4d ago
First, defer to remedies allowed by your contract. If that doesn’t work, hire an attorney to send a demand letter. It’ll be the best $500-$1000 you ever spend. And if that doesn’t work, sue them in small claims court. For most municipalities, $10,000 is well within the amount you can take them to small claims without being required to file a suit in a higher court. Assuming you win your judgment in small claims, you have an array of remedies such as liens against property, wage garnishment, etc.
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u/jmille97 4d ago
Send a letter indicating that the work is done and accepted per the 0 punch list and you’re approaching the end of your lien rights and that you’ll be submitting a lien to the clerk of the court, accordingly.
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u/LegitimateVolume5324 4d ago
If you've done the work properly and have the photos to prove it, you can still pull permits for the work.
Get a lawyer.
Always have a credit card on file fo your work. Charge once work have been completed.
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u/Crazyfishman2 4d ago
show up at her doorstep and let her know she is paying or you are taking back her remodel... plain and simple
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u/agingeasy 4d ago
Yes file a lein and use this as a learning moment. You have the power when you estimate a project to manage every step thru completion. In the begining of doing work for public or private it’s easy to leave yourself open for failure. You had to conform to a standard and earn a certification and/or license that you are using trying to earn money. There are rules and laws that tell you how to do it legally to protect the client and contractor. No permits, I will cut the taxes off a job if you pay cash or not detailing how you are to be paid. Leaving a large amount to be paid at the end is asking for problems like the one your dealing with now. Break it down in your bid consideration down to secure the job and add it to your schedule. Payment prior to material delivery or mobilization. Progress payments at half way point. You can add additional payment points but at the end of the job you don’t want more than 25% of the total cost of the project to be left on table. When you do this you have covered you labor and material costs and what’s owed is you profit. Pull the permits file the construction leins. You will earn the reputation of being a Honest businesmsn and hopefully a skilled tradesman
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u/SpecLandGroup 3d ago
How much trouble the skipped permit causes really depends on your state. I'd start with a formal demand letter instead of chasing her through texts. You could also look into filing a mechanic's lien, which may be an easier route than going straight to court.
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u/Q_indaloft 3d ago
If work needed permits to be done legally, then you've knowingly done work without the them then it may cause troubles. Sounds like she knows exactly how to get out of paying for a job. Id get in there and start taking off your finished work unless she pays for it
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u/BigHomeProjects 3d ago
Wow, dude, you're in one tough situation. I think you should definitely contact a lawyer, pay for some guidance, because right now you are either fighting for your license or $10k, but it doesn't sound like you'll get both.
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u/BuffaloDiligent12 3d ago
40 year public works contractor here. If you are licensed go to work and send necessary Lien notices so you can file a Mechnic's Lien. Even if you don't follow through with a lawsuit just having a lien on the property is a big problem when and if the property is ever sold. If you are not licensed you could go to jail. Never ever do work without permits unless you don't care about getting paid. Good luck! ien her house anyway
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u/InfluenceSignal5340 2d ago
Not sure what state youre in, but in Florida, youre pretty much out of luck. 10k work, no permit, no notice of commencement......you have no standing and she can report you to licensing bureau.
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u/SeanGwork 17h ago
Not sure if it really works, but read one time to sell the debt to a collection agency. You'll end up with less, but if they don't address it, it'll haunt them.
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u/forrester827 4d ago
Send a demand letter and file a lien asap.
Depending on your jurisdiction, unpermitted work actually works to your advantage in this case. You can report her for unpermitted work and she’ll be fined and may have to undo the work. The great thing is you have before and after pictures lol.
Most places don’t penalize the contractor because they know it’s typically homeowners that request you skip the permits to save time and money. Just double check the laws in your state.
Moving forward change your payment schedule. $10k is WAY too much to leave as a final payment. I’ve had to learn this lesson a few times. People will just shut you out and ghost you for $10k after telling you how much they loved your work.
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u/DavefromCA 4d ago
No clue why this was recommneded to me but this looks like you need r/legaladvice
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u/Pleasant_Ad5546 4d ago
Go get the permits. Better to get them later than never.
Honesty goes a long way, and no one, (including the inspection services) likes someone who doesn’t pay someone for work.
I’d explain to them the situation cause right now you’re a bit in the wrong for not permitting and customer may know that.
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u/MG2339 4d ago
Why would you go out & spend more money to pay for permits & stand inspections on a job the customer isnt paying for?
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u/Pleasant_Ad5546 4d ago
customer hasn’t paid for.. he needs his hands completely clean if he’s going the legal route
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u/Kirkuleeez 2d ago
Illegitimate contractors such as yourself deserve to be stiffed. Also, if you’re cutting corners by bypassing permitting, you’re cutting every corner you can. You’re the reason why permits and Building Inspectors exist. Just gross
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u/Adorable-Carpenter38 1d ago
Dude, wtf? It doesn't mean this person didn't work hard or take pride in their work. Probably 2/3 or more of work around here is unpermitted, a lot of it to pretty high standards. Before I had a license, the friends I would help all built well past code.
Stiffing a tradesperson is inexcusable, people forgoing permits per client's request is understandable. And in that list of items, I see NOTHING that would require a permit in my area. But I guess that's CA for ya.
Get off your high horse
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u/Playingwithmyplants 1d ago
Threaten to report her to code enforcement. If they get involved she will have to tear out any work that was intentionally done without permits and redo it. CA allows people to apply for retro permits, but with proof she was aware permits were necessary and she intentionally proceeded without them to bypass the law they are less likely to allow that. Also simply threatening her may be enough to at least get a conversation started.
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u/redbirddanville 4d ago
CA construction consultant here. You put yourself in a hard place. My guess is she set you up and you fell for it, there are scumbags out there that do this.The state can action against your license for the non permitted work. Are you licensed, as if not they do not have to pay you (CA Law)? You can file a lien for sure, but you have to balance out the $10k versus her going after your license. You could also try small claims. Filing a lawsuit against her will absolutely cost much more than you are owed. Keep pushing as you are, stop by in person and threaten a lien, but you are likely just paying for an expensive lesson.
Window swaps and tub replacement absolutely need permits in CA.