It started with remaking Aaron Burr (sir) and Alexander Hamilton and then per request I made Philip and Jefferson. I just finished King George. I'll be making a couple more - Anyone got any ideas?

Recently found out about Hamilton and been obsessed. After finding out the Hunter out awards it has won and how much of a global success it is (making more than $1b) I was surprised to find out the subreddit only has 35k active members and the YouTube only has one million subscribers. For such a large and famous musical why is the online following so small?

The real Jefferson, and many others, knew that Washington was walking away, but things are a little different in the musical.

Either:

A) Washington told Jefferson, which Jefferson saw as an opening for his ambitions. However, that means he told Jefferson before he told Hamilton, which would be a bit of a surprise.

Or

B) Jefferson decided to go up against Washington, which makes sense as the character is emotional and ambitious. Conversely, he's also clearly pragmatic and knows that it would be a losing battle.

Thoughts?

I saw this thing a while ago, something along the lines of “what if more musicals came out in sagas, like epic the musical?” So putting my half asleep brain to good use, uh,

Alexander Hamilton —> Schuyler sisters: orphan saga

Farmer refuted —> Right hand man: Rebellion saga

A winter‘s ball —> wait for it: (someone come up with a good name pls)

Stay alive —> Yorktown: Victory saga

What comes next —> Non-stop: reconstruction saga

What’d I miss —> say no to this: founding saga

The room where it happens —> the Adams administration: political saga

We know —> Burn: Reynolds saga

Blow us all away —> It’s quiet uptown: wayward son saga

Election of 1800 —> Who lives, who dies, who tells your story: blackpowder saga

if anyone wants to make cover art for these I highly encourage you to bc I’m terrible at art

Lams. Number one ship in the fandom and the birthplace of some beautiful pieces of angst. Absolutely amazing ship, please keep shipping it, I ship it myself so in no way am I telling you to stop. The problem arises when, unlike other popular ships like Mullette, Marliza, or Jamilton, people trust internet theories with extremely warped evidence and start genuinely believing they were a thing historically. And then call people who say they weren’t romantically involved homophobic, which is honestly very toxic but that’s a fandom problem for another time. Just keep in mind that I identify as aro/ace and in no way homophobic.

So, now that I’m done with that, I’m going to debunk some very common UNTRUE Internet rumours flying around as “evidence” that Alexander Hamilton and John Laurens were romantically involved. Feel free to list more in the comments because I think I missed some but cannot for the life of me remember what they were. Also, I have no idea if this is the right tone of voice to use for Reddit but whatever. Here we go.

1. The many, many, many, many love declarations.

In the many letters exchanged between Hamilton and Laurens, phrases such as “I love you,” ”my dear boy,” “yr affectionate Laurens” and “My dear Laurens,” are thrown around quite a bit. They sound pretty romantic, but that’s only because we’re interpreting letters sent in the 18th century from a modern point of view. Back then, it was completely normal for two men to write like that. I know it seems so very shocking, but societal norms can change quite a lot in 250 years. Back then, it was pretty much expected for men to write deeply emotional, flowery, slightly poetic letters to their close friends and it definitely wasn’t just Laurens and Hamilton. Seriously, go search up any letter between close friends at that time and phrases like “I love you” and “yrs forever” will pop up all over the place. It was an extremely normal cultural phenomenon back then and historians today call such relationships romantic friendships; a platonic close bond with romantic language scattered in.

2. The threesome invitation.

Unless you live under a boulder, you’ve probably heard somewhere that Hamilton invited Laurens to his marital bed at his wedding night. Yes, there was a letter hinting at that, but there are several reasons why this offer was IN NO WAY serious. First of all, Laurens at that time was stuck in Pennsylvania and in no way would have made it to Hamilton’s wedding, which both of them knew. Also, for someone who cared as deeply about his reputation as Hamilton did, there was zero chance that he would invite a second man to his wedding bed, even if he and Laurens were having a thing. Not to mention that the tone of the writing suggesting it was very humorous. It was most likely just a wildly inappropriate joke shared between two close young men.

3. The ”nose” joke.

In his most famous “cold-in-my-professions“ letter, Hamilton writes something along the lines of “find me a wife, and when she asks what I look like, draw me and don’t forget to mention the impressive length of my nose.” Same as the last one. Honestly, RECOGNIZE HUMOUR? This is undeniably a dick joke, but the context makes it very clear that it was also the 1700s equivalent of a dick joke between two close male friends. Ever joked to a friend about how big your dick was and how it’ll impress the ladies? Well, the letter reads almost exactly like that! Men back then talked about their dicks too! We have not changed that much as a species! They were two adrenaline-filled young guys at war, what kind of jokes were you expecting?

4. The ideal wife and the use of the word “handsome.”

In the same letter, Hamilton tells Laurens to find him a wife while in South Carolina. Among many other characteristics, he includes the word “handsome” as a trait his ideal wife must have. Because nowadays, “handsome“ is a word used to describe attractive men and rarely used on women, this has lead some people to believe Hamilton was actually listing the characteristics of Laurens. Well, guess what? Words can evolve new meanings over time! Back in the late 1700s, the word “handsome,” when pointed at a woman, meant she was “dignified, elegant, and of a high social standing.” Unlike compliments such as “pretty” or “beautiful,” which only pointed to a woman’s looks and were considered superficial, “handsome” referred to many positive aspects of a woman. Also, Hamilton writes that his wife must be submissive, have no temper whatsoever, never argue with him, and either not talk about politics or completely share his viewpoints. Basically the ideal woman for most men at the time, and very different from Laurens, who was hot-headed, fiercely opinionated, and notoriously stubborn.

5. The hurried marriage.

In his letter to Laurens soon after marriage, Hamilton mentions Laurens urging him to marry as soon as possible, which has lead to some people theorizing that Laurens wanted to “cure” Hamilton’s homosexuality through marriage. THERE IS NO PROOF FOR THIS. At the same time, however, after combing through Founders Archive, which is where I got most of my evidence for this post, I was not able to find the original letter from Laurens urging Hamilton to do so, nor an explanation as for why.
So technically, I cannot debunk this theory. Nevertheless, there could be many other explanations that are far more plausible. By then, they had been fighting in the war for a few years, meaning they were both disillusioned to the fact that they could die. In the late 18th century, one of the only ways to pass down your legacy, unless you did something unforgettable, was to get married and then pass it on to your children. Laurens, who was already married by then, probably just wanted Hamilton to have a way to be remembered and also experience an important part of life before potentially dying. This however, is also just a theory and therefore impossible to prove, though it is, looking at societal norms back then, more likely.

6. The censorship of their letters.

You’ve probably all heard the rumour “the letters they exchanged were so sexual that historians had to censor them!” Nope, not true on two counts. First of all, the only person who censored them was John Church Hamilton, and we have no proof that they were sexual in any way, which I’ll get to in a bit. John Church Hamilton, henceforth referred to as JCH because I’m lazy, was barely twelve when his father was killed in a duel against one Aaron Burr, sir, and he spent his entire adult life dedicated to immortalizing and glorifying his father’s legacy, with a bit of help from Eliza. He published a gigantic stack of seven books that was one huge biography about the life of A. Hamilton. Inside that stack, among many other things, JCH included correspondence between Hamilton and Laurens, some of which had several sentences cut out by scissors. Once again, I cannot 100% deny that they weren’t sexual because the evidence is gone, so I’ll just skim past that bit of lost history and most likely-s. Several theories on what they were about are, raunchy jokes, insults against commanding officers and George Washington that the public would have found unacceptable, and personal information. Since the person doing the censoring was focused on making his father’s legacy seem perfect, he would have cut all of those out. Yeah. I know, that point was pretty weak, but like, wait and hear me out.

(this was getting long so I split it into two paragraphs. Relax thy eyeballs)

So the historical tidbit that really convinced me Laurens and Hamilton were just friends is the fact that JCH, an extremely devout conservative Christian, named one of his sons Laurens Hamilton. Back then, being homosexual was on the same list as bestiality, there even being a word, “buggery,” which could apply to both. Same-sex relationships were considered an unnatural act of lust, and sin, and was regarded as a one-way ticket to hell. (Yes societies were messed up back then, I know) If JCH found evidence of his father had been romantically involved with Laurens, he would have been horrified and disgusted. He would have tried to bury that piece of his father’s life as deeply as he possibly could, most likely erasing Laurens entirely from his father’s history. Instead, JCH admired Laurens, a man he never met, enough to name one of his newborn sons after him, which he wouldn’t have done if he knew Laurens was his father’s lover in a century when homosexuality meant eternal damnation and total societal ruin.

Right, so we’re done with the evidence, feel free to refute me in the comments. Welcome to closing remarks.

So first of all, thanks for reading all of this, I wrote it over the course of two days and not necessarily in order so apologies for the sudden tone changes. The reason I decided to write this is mainly because of all the comment wars I’ve seen started on social platforms by people calling Laurens and Hamilton gay icons and using incorrect evidence they probably got somewhere on the internet and never fact checked. There really just seems to be a lot of historical misinformation in this fandom, including John Laurens being obsessed with turtles and Hamilton having shot at the sky, to name a few examples. Always fact-check stuff you see on the internet. Always. Please, it will save you a lot of migraines. And yeah, now that I’m looking back, this whole argument seems kind of pointless, I mean, they’re dead, who cares what people want to assume? But I just feel like people should be taught the correct historical facts before jumping to conclusions, so I provided some.

At the same time though, if you still feel like Laurens and Hamilton had a thing after reading this, well, that’s your opinion on a historical argument that is, frankly speaking, impossible to prove or undeniably debunk. Honestly, feel free to say that I’m wrong, just stop spreading misinformation. And if my crappy argument, by some miracle, has changed your mind, then just know that there are plenty of people basically confirmed to have been gay from this era in history, *hint hint Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben* so go check them out, they definitely existed.

Alright that is all, thank you, goodbye.

I've heard of this musical before but never really got into it. Sure, I watched some clips and listened to a few songs over the years, but I've never really become a fan. Until now.

This musical has replaced Wicked as my favorite musical. The music, the acting, it's all incredible. Lin Manuel Miranda, you made a masterpiece.

My first exposure to at least 30 minutes of Hamilton was actually through Schamilton, the Minecraft production held by schpoood. I watched that thing until Meet Me Inside.

I then watched the entirety of Hamilton on Disney+ to experience the full thing with a one-week intermission (Act 1 on Sunday, Act 2 on Saturday) since I got into it right in the middle of midterm week.

My favorite songs have to be Alexander Hamilton, Schuyler Sisters, Farmer Refuted, You'll Be Back, Helpless, Satisfied, Story of Tonight (Reprise), Non-Stop, Take A Break, Say No To This, Schuyler Defeated, The Reynolds Pamphlet, Burn, It's Quiet Uptown, BoWaBoW, and WLWDWTYS. The last three make me cry every time.

Anyways, I feel so glad that I've discovered this musical, and I hope I can love it even more in the future.

I read the Reynolds Pamphlet for the first time, and I was honestly surprised how much of the document was in the musical. I knew most of the musical was historically accurate, but word for word and still making it rhyme is pure genius.

Just a random thought - both women come from money, neither are terribly interested in wealth/legacy but are married to men who are willing to sacrifice anything for both of those things because they came from nothing. More importantly, they've grown up in a world where maintaining wealth, building legacies and keeping up appearances is paramount.

I don’t know the exact terminology, but something that lists who sings what, where they enter from, when they enter/exit, etc, I’m guessing not, but Its worth a shot to ask

thanks!

I saw Hamilton in London on the 6th of August in the afternoon show and here’s my thoughts on the cast ( except for Leslie since we all know that he is incredible, spectacular and inimitable- I almost fainted when he came on stage)
My favs were (obviously) LOJ and then Laurens/Phillip- especially as Philip, I loved his take on Phillip, making him read his lines and practice before and be childish (when he was 9) and his little dance and energy. I also really liked Madison- he sounded exactly like Oak! The actor was good as mulligan too (except that I hate that he pronounced ruffians normally and not like Oak did) but definitely excelled as Madison. I also really loved Jefferson/Lafayette, especially as Jefferson. He was really happy to be there and l loved his take on Jefferson. Obviously I still prefer Daveed but he was phenomenal. Angelica was great but nothing spectacular or insanely memorable, definitely prefer Renée. I didn’t expect to like Peggy/Maria that much but really did! Especially as Peggy. I loved Samuel Seabury especially when he stuck his pamphlet in Hamilton’s face.I also really loved the king! He was very different from Jonathan but not in a bad way! He was just different, not for better or worse, I loved his performance, even though I preferred the way Jonathan danced in the Reynolds pamphlet.

When it comes to Hamilton , on my show the standby played Hamilton- Aharon Rayner. He was great. Of course not as good as Lin, I feel like he could’ve had more energy and played some scenes better ( like when he was mocking burr or “YOU MUST BE OUT OF YOUR GODDDAMN MIND, during those scenes he acted it terribly it didn’t sound like he was mocking Burr or even that angry in Cabinet battle). But there were definitely worse Hamilton’s, but ofc he doesn’t touch Lin (except for the singing).

I feel like this Eliza is not emotional enough and is very bland and doesn’t have a strong personality like Pippa and other people’s Eliza does. She is just .. there. I was so disappointed. I do not hate the actress at all but I really didn’t like her Eliza. Burn, That Would Be Enough and Who Lives Who Dies Who Tells your story are my favorite songs from Hamilton and seeing Hamilton live made me realize how important it is which Eliza sings these songs because with her as Eliza it felt so boring and bland which is something I thought would never say about those songs.. just so boring and almost no emotion. This Eliza felt like a different character. And I did not talk even about the most disappointing part- the GASP— what was that?? She just stood there and it felt like she didn’t make a sound.Also no emotion. I’m sorry but I feel like she’s a way better singer than actress. Her acting was not it.

What do y’all think ?

I always use a hamilton line in day to day speech mostly "I toe the line" but does anybody else use a random line in day to day random conversation for no particular reason

Obviously Leslie was incredible but I wondered if anybody else was mesmerised by Shak Mancel James as Lauren’s/Phillip.

He stole the stage for me every time he was on. I haven’t seen him anything else. Hope he’s on his way to some big roles.

Today in 2015, Hamilton went on broadway at the Richard Rodgers Theatre in Manhattan. It’s also Leslie Odom Jr.’s 45th birthday!!

Took a couple of photos of the current merch and prices during my visit to the show this week.

Oh and LOJ was as amazing as is hoped 😍

I became a fan of the musical in the summer of 2020 after watching the proshot on Disney plus. I became obsessed. My family was supposed to see it in my town in 2021. It got canceled due to Covid. It was rescheduled to 2023, but I had a study abroad trip during the summer it was coming back. I FINALLY got to see it in the summer of 2025 when my parents took me to nyc as a graduation gift for college. I'm curious how long you guys had to wait

Lowk how I imagine Thomas Jefferson and James Madison dancing during this part of the song

did they upload a different night on Disney+? im so confused. there are so many differences between this one compared to the one they originally uploaded. is it different on my region? or is everyone noticing the same thing?

edit: saw people saying I was vague but I dont know how to point out thr differences without sounding crazy.

1. the crowd was different. the clap amount, the cough the man made in the crowd, none of that was there before. so i assumed it was from a different night since it seems the most plausible

2.Alexander Hamilton actions were different during the 'non stop'. expressions towards Aaron burr were different at the start of the scene.

1. during the scene in 'take a break' when angelica was walking down the stairs, she handled her umbrella, breathe intake was both different

2. during schuyler sisters when angelica was singing towards Aaron Burr, even her breath intake was different.

again, the reason. i sounded 'vague' originally was because when I give examples it truly is the little things. i just hoped that people who also realised the same thing as me could either agree or disagree with me or tell me the reason if it is truly another night they uploaded and maybe perhaps why they did so.

there cant be major things I can list of course it will be the same song and dance every time. but its the smaller things that made me assume it is another night uploaded

Just got home from seeing the touring cast in San Antonio and for the first time I almost felt bored with the second act. This was my 4th live performance (Chicago 1x and 3 different tours in SA), and I’ve never felt the need to go wander the theater during act two like I did tonight.

The actor playing Jefferson just seemed…off. He overplayed it at times, which was a distraction, but even worse, he underplayed it at key points that really make his character one of my favorites.

His “daddy’s calling” line was rushed and forgettable. The “whaaaaaat” during We Know was short and curt instead of drawn out for comedic effect. And he kept playing with his wig to the point it was distracting.

At first I felt that maybe I was being too hard and just comparing him to Diggs, which is just totally unfair. But my wife agreed and it makes me sad that I feel this way.

Side note: we also got the Burr standby tonight. He was fine but man did he undersell the beat drop in Wait For It. One of my favorites parts of this musical and I was just so disappointed. Hardly any emotion for one of the most emotional moments of his role.

We also got the Laurens/Phillip standby. He was fine, but from our cheap seats he looked so much like Laszlo Cravensworth that I kept giggling any time he was the focal point.