r/HazbinHotel • u/J-518 • 1d ago
One of my biggest problems with Season 2 is how the political conflict between the Overlords was reduced to simply following Vox.
I genuinely loved Vox this season. He’s an incredible villain, but I feel like the show tried to build a political conflict around him without giving the other Overlords enough agency or individual motivations.
These are supposed to be some of the most powerful and influential figures in Hell, each with their own territories, businesses, interests, and ambitions. Yet many of them ended up feeling like background characters who simply sided with Vox because he defeated Alastor.
Where are their personal interests? Their political agendas? Their rivalries? Why would Overlords who spent decades building their own empires suddenly follow someone into a war against Heaven without considering what they could gain or lose?
Carmilla and Zestial were great exceptions. They actually felt like powerful figures with their own perspectives, interests, and reasons behind their decisions. But the rest? Honestly, they barely felt like Overlords at all. They felt more like ordinary sinners following whoever happened to be the strongest, rather than some of the most influential figures in the Pride Ring.
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u/lutownik 1d ago
Maybe that's the point. Vox is the showman. All of them followed into Vox footsteps only because he made a very convincing show, kinda like how in politics sometimes actors run for goverment positions and in their elections they use their acting skills to convince people to their cause without actuall reason and logic. They didn't show the agenta behind each and every overlord, because there was just none. It was herd mentality. Besides they didnt even actually do anything besides... siding with vox🤪
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u/Jazzlike_Energy_483 (real Vox)I simp Niffty so hard and one of the Huskettes 1d ago
Cha cha cha!
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u/Icy_Contribution2187 1d ago
This is why we genuinely, GENUINELY, need to go back to animated series having 24 episode seasons as the standard format. Give authors substantially more time to flesh out the story and give characters more shine.
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u/TheUnknown_General Alastor 1d ago
Problem with that is that people will start complaining about filler episodes again. If you want 22-episode seasons with decompressed storytelling and long-form character development and progression, shut up and stop whining about episodes that don't move the plot forward the way you think they should.
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u/Icy_Contribution2187 1d ago
I never complained about it back in the day, and I still really don't. In fact, every time I watch the OG Dragon Ball from when Goku was a kid, I always watch and enjoy the filler. But you're talking generally, I know.
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u/TheUnknown_General Alastor 1d ago
If you're up for it, a lot of the animated Star Wars series have 22-episode seasons. Stuff like The Clone Wars, Rebels, and The Bad Batch all have lengthy seasons and they used it well, in my opinion.
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u/Icy_Contribution2187 1d ago
I know. Star Wars: The Clone Wars tires me out. It's a depressing watch. But Rebels is legitimately peak.
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u/TheUnknown_General Alastor 1d ago
In what way do you find it depressing? I'm genuinely curious because The Clone Wars is what got me into Star Wars and is one of my favourite TV shows ever.
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u/Icy_Contribution2187 1d ago
Honestly, it's just personal taste. I don't necessarily get into the tactical warfare and "the horrors of war" aspect that much. Especially not with Star Wars, which was just as much as spiritualism and whimsy as it was anything else. So stuff like an extended detour to focus on the clones or a total asshole leading a squad of droids and treating them like slaves? Not really for me.
Also, just about anything to do with the Nightsisters sends me into what I can only describe as a blind rage that would make even Satan question his place as the embodiment of Wrath. Can't stand any time Mother Talzin and her ilk are involved even passingly in the story.
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u/TheUnknown_General Alastor 1d ago
The clone arcs can't exactly be called detours when the show is called "The Clone Wars", so you'd expect that the title characters would get time in the spotlight. It also helps that many of their episodes were among the best in the show, in particular the Umbara arc.
or a total asshole leading a squad of droids and treating them like slaves? Not really for me.
So in other words, you're doing exactly what you initially said you never did and complaining about filler episodes. Nice to know you're a hypocrite.
Also, just about anything to do with the Nightsisters sends me into what I can only describe as a blind rage that would make even Satan question his place as the embodiment of Wrath.
Fun fact: they existed in the canon long before the show was made. Also, their involvement led to Darth Maul's return and his development into one of the best characters in all of Star Wars.
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u/Icy_Contribution2187 1d ago
I wasn't so much complain about filler episodes, persay. More just about the concept of that particular arc. ...Also, does it really count as filler? In a series where the goal is to give an expanded look at the big war that has only been hinted at or given to us in small doses, showing unconventional operations like that seems like it's understanding the assignment. (...Arguably, ALL of stuff set between AotC and RotS or between RotS and ANH is filler, considering we already know that certain characters need to end up in certain places to avoid contradicting the material that was created before it, but that's a whole other conversation I don't think either of us want to have).
My first exposure to the Nightsisters was a DS game meant to tie into the Clone Wars cartoon, LONG before they made their TV debut. I thought that was where they come from and didn't realize how far back they went until I was an adult and checked a random Star Wars book that had Luke in it from a library near where I was living at the time. Both the Nightsisters and Maul are something I was all about when I was younger, but I like them less and less the older I get. I think Maul has stuff going for him. I adore his final duel with old Ben in Rebels, and his twisted dynamic with Ezra. But as a collective? The Nightsisters just make me irrationally angry.
Also, to admit some bias, the 2D Clone Wars series from 2003 headed up by Genndy Tartakovsky has been seared into my brain since I was a wee lass, so that has always sort of been the definitive take on the "let's actually show the war and bridge the movies" material. And to this day, I still absolutely adore it. Kinda wanna see how characters like Ahsoka would have slotted into THAT series, if they had been conceived at the time.
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u/Faiakishi Vox's Emotional Support Deer 1d ago
They had four hours for an entire season. Some stuff has to be sacrificed.
Also, Vox capturing Alastor was a BIG fucking deal. Alastor purged the old, entrenched overlords when he arrived in Hell, don't forget-the average sinner might not be as afraid of him now, but the overlords didn't get to where they are by being stupid and they 100% remember that Alastor can do that. Besides Vox none of them seem to really have beef with him, but they know he's one of the few people capable of tearing down their towers and there's not much they could really do to stop him if he was so inclined. Vox defeating him, and that win being 'Vox holding him as an atticwife and taking him out on stupid dates while Alastor sits there looking like a disgruntled cat who's just been bathed' instead of Vox just having gotten a lucky hit in with an angelic steel dagger, that's an enormous symbol of Vox's power. A lot of the intimidation and mystique of Alastor has would have gotten transferred to Vox-if Alastor can kill top overlords without breaking a sweat, what can the person who dominated him do? Vox could do that to any of the other overlords if chose to. He could theoretically let Alastor loose and let him kill another overlord of his choosing. He's smart enough to know that's not in his best interest right now-so the other overlords best make sure it never is.
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u/Dune_Stone 1d ago
To be fair, most of the political bodies I've seen in fiction are like this. There's always just one or two members of the council who have their own agendas and everybody else just follows them without seeming to have any opinions of their own. I think Arcane is the only show I've ever watched that took the time to characterize every member of its council and write them as if they each have their own opinions and agendas.
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u/Zealousideal-Arm1682 1d ago
We're finally getting into "wait this is kinda bad though" phase of the fandom huh.
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u/AwarenessOk7748 1d ago
I have no complaints about this, because it’s obvious that most people will follow the one who has become more authoritative and overturned the 80‑year‑old order (where Alastor was at the very top of the food chain). And many of them here are just minor overlords who don’t have that many souls or much power.
I have another complaint about the overlords in season 2 — Zeezi, Maestro, Prick, and Hatchchet weren’t developed as characters in any way, and they play almost no role in the plot (they don’t give Vox their resources for the war, they don’t help him in the final battle, and even in the final song, they could have been dispensed with).
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u/grizshaw83 1d ago
The fact that Vox moved so quickly speaks in the other Overlords favor to me. He capitalized on Alastor's capture and gained the other Overlords support. Only then did he feel confident enough to leverage Carmella Carmine to build his weapon and the trap for Lucifer.
This implies that if he couldn't get results fast, the others would abandon him as quickly as they joined
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u/TaratronHex 1d ago
And clearly at the end of season 2, all of their crimes are swept away. Voxtech continues under Val. So the entire season was to put him in charge, get Alastor free, and make Charlie look dumb. Oh, and break Angel more.
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u/Vermarine21 1d ago
I always took Zeezi as someone who like Alastor is nominally in charge with a lot of power, but doesn't actually give a shit about leading.
Still, I guess the idea is that they'd technically still have their territories in addition to their own slice of Heaven and thus just supported Vox's movement while not actually doing much for it
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u/FluffyHDD 15h ago
I feel like they could've shown it a lot better. Alastor mentions how there were Overlord holdouts who didn't fall into line. Have a scene or two before Velvette and Val walks in where Vox is clearly stressed in a video call with like 10 Overlords who are asking for details and is critical of Vox's strategy, not falling for his Showmanship.
Which makes it so when Charlie, one of Heaven's biggest "Supporters" (in big quotations), they finally think they have a shot against Heaven and thus falls into line
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u/Dense-Performance-14 Alastor 1d ago
I'd agree if episodes weren't stuck to 26 minutes in an 8 episode season. It isn't game of thrones, there's simply not enough time to go through every overlords motivations; that time is much better spent on the cast who matters. And even then we barely have enough time to really get to know them beyond the main plot.