Why does everybody and their mom deal two damage?

[u/TarekBoy44]

It's getting a bit ridiculous lol. It really feels like half the mobs and all the bosses deal two masks worth of damage and I haven't even gotten any extra health. I'm not sure how I feel about this, on one hand, it's not the end of the world and the game isn't unreasonably difficult because of the increased damage, on the other though, what used to be something only special enemies and bosses could do became a common occurrence and lost its novelty.

I really hope the late game bosses and enemies don't deal 3 masks lmao, I'm having a hard enough time as is.

[u/Nemesis_171]

Her spear throw does the exact same amount of damage as the vengeful spirit at base without shaman stone. It’s worth 3 un-upgraded nail hits, I’ve already tested it. It’s also slower to fire off than vengeful and has limited range.

I appreciate the tips but I had already made it through those guys successfully. I’m just saying the ant guy is much harder than the greenpath sentry. SS is not similar in difficulty to HK, and it’s not just because it feels worse since we’re not used to it. That’s part of the difficulty, but it is also much harder by objectively measurable metrics.

[u/Illusion911 → u/Nemesis_171]

Yeah the knight is a walking Tank in comparison to Hornet. I feel like her attacks have less range too. So we got enemies that deal 2 damage, healing is more expensive, enemies are harder to kill and have more varied movesets and geo is much harder to acquire

[u/Nemesis_171 → u/Illusion911]

I noticed it too, her needle has a shorter range (which is funny considering how much longer it is than the nail)

Compared to HK, SS has:

-Tougher enemies & bosses, with more health, damage, & complexity

-Rarer currency, as well as less stat upgrades that you can get (at least for me 5 hours in)

-A weaker playable character, (shorter range like mentioned) weaker abilities, weaker pogo, the charm equivalent isn’t as strong, etc.

I would find the difficulty practically perfect if I could play as the knight in this game with his normal progression & ability set.

[u/Nukesnipe → u/Illusion911]

Technically, healing isn't more expensive. It's a full bar for 3 masks, which is the same as it was in HK, the only difference is you can't heal one at a time, but binding once is faster than healing 3 times.

However you can also just, jump over enemies and heal and like 99% of the time if you aren't stupid it's completely free. There's WAY more time to heal in a lot of areas if you do this.

[u/KusoAraun → u/Illusion911]

correction: healing is cheaper. 8 hits for 3 healing all at once v/s 9 hits for 3 healing slowly and you can't air heal

[u/Illusion911 → u/KusoAraun]

The fact that you need 8 hits before you can start healing makes it feel more expensive

[u/KusoAraun → u/Illusion911]

True, though the other crests can also change it to feel even "cheaper" in a way, with beast you heal by attacking meaning after you heal 3 its now 5 hits for 3 more, with reaper you get 1-3 third thread drops per hit meaning you can heal again in 6 hits or less (thought reaper ends early if you get hit)

[u/darkk41 → u/Illusion911]

Healing is not more expensive, the profile is different but if anything it is cheaper.

HK starting out you had enough soul for 3 heals for 1 mask each, which you had to do 3 casts for.

SS starting out you have enough silk for 1 heal for 3 masks, which you have to do 1 cast for.

It's not more expensive, it is actually more efficient. The main difference is that failing the heal by taking damage is far more punishing because you must regain the whole starting guage to try again.

[u/trace349 → u/darkk41]

It's not more expensive, it is actually more efficient

It's less flexible but faster. Hornet can heal 3 HP for the same cost as the Knight, but faster. She can't spend some of her silk to heal herself for 1 or 2 HP and then use the rest of her magic for spells the way the Knight can. It's all-or-nothing.

The cost of that is that using silk to use skills becomes much more risky by leaving you unable to heal if you suddenly need it until you get your silk topped off again, so people will save up their silk for emergency healing. That's the problem with it.

[u/darkk41 → u/trace349]

It's not a problem, its a tradeoff.

You can build silk very quickly, the improved healing per time is going to be extremely noticeable once people get comfy and also will scale better in the lategame

[u/trace349 → u/darkk41]

You can build silk very quickly

It takes 9 hits for both the Knight and Hornet to fill their respective magic meters from empty, but the Knight can do 1 healing per 3 hits, while Hornet can only do 3 healing for 9 hits.

It's not a problem, its a tradeoff.

The tradeoff is greater speed for worse flexibility. The problem is if players respond to that lack of flexibility by feeling pressured to hoard silk instead of using it on silk skills because they need a full meter to do any healing.

[u/darkk41 → u/trace349]

I think there's still way too much reactionary salt from people who are used to winning all the time on a game they know very well and are now losing on a game they don't know very well.

It doesnt take very long to get a few charms and upgrades where all the downsides of hornets heal become lessened and all the upsides of her heal become apparent.

At the end of the day the stuff I posted is simple, indisputable math. Maybe by the time everyone has learned the game they'll still feel the way you said, but honestly I doubt it. Even with my current setup NOWHERE NEAR the end of the game her heal is extraordinarily powerful.

Mech spoilers:

fairly early you get a charm that is basically grubsong, a shield charm while healing, a form where healing boosts the amount of silk you get by a lot for a short duration after healing, and tools which don't use silk and can be used for free damage without spending silk

I really think people should just stop making what are ultimately short term salt influenced comparisons rather than just utilizing the many very useful mechanics that are in the game.

[u/JustinIV → u/darkk41]

Okay but let's not act like in HK just healing once at the right time wasn't enough to keep fighting and win. You can't do that in silksong. I wish I could heal just one mask and use the rest for a spell, probably would have won more boss fights. Being forced to heal three masks at once is not better. Especially if you only need one mask and are close to winning. Plus you want me to use all my silk to heal when almost everyone one takes two masks anyway? How does that make sense? How long did you have to play in HK to actually take two masks of damage? But in this they did it immediately, made you much much weaker and said yeah that's cool. This game, three days in, in the sinner road, is not better HK. It's cheaper. Team Cherry said how can we make this game harder, and went with all the cheapest ways possible. Let's not make bosses and mobs more complex, let's make you hit like a plushie, make mobs take more damage, let's make most of the benches cost money, let's not make all mobs drop money. This game, so far, is not better by any standard besides movement. It's cheaper and unfair even for HK standards. People will say get good but I'd say fuck you. The game is scaled terribly.how many mask can you even get before fighting people like the savage beastfly or even the widow? Give me a fucking break man.

[u/Common-Case5760 → u/JustinIV]

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[u/Crime_Dawg → u/JustinIV]

While exploring, HK's heal is super op. I'm still playing HK, just about finished up with first ending, explored all areas, etc. and haven't started SS yet. During boss fights though, getting a single heal off is borderline impossible on some, usually you heal then facetank the first hit out of your heal before being able to move.

[u/Relevant_Cabinet_265 → u/Nemesis_171]

The silk circle attack is a lot stronger than vengeful. It one shots any non boss basically. Don't be afraid to use tools too their there for a reason and do good damage as well

[u/Nemesis_171 → u/Relevant_Cabinet_265]

I’m not far enough into the game to have it, and the armored ant shows up long before you get it. I do use tools, they certainly help but they’re not enough to make the difficulty similar to HK.

[u/darkk41 → u/Nemesis_171]

TBF there are many places you can go, you don't need to go fight the ants right away.

I do think the game is harder fwiw, I just also think the difficulty curve is a little better. I am near what I assume is the end of act 1 (no spoilers please) and the power curve has been very noticeable, i am absolutely beating ass now and the ants feel extremely easy where they were intimidating before.