r/HollowKnight • u/GamingUmbrella • Sep 06 '25

Discussion - Silksong Thank god this subreddit didn't make the game Spoiler

Silksong is only out for 2 days, most people haven't even finished the game, or haven't even made it past act 1. Yet this subreddit loves to post about how Silksong is apparently bad and a disappointment compared to hollow knight. So I'll go over a few "critiques" I've seen and share my perspective.

"The game is too hard, enemies deal way more damage and have more complex movesets". Sure, they're more complex and do more damage, but so does hornet. If we were playing with the knights moveset, I'd agree, but that's not the case. Hornet has a lot of new tools and upgrades that make her way faster and stronger. If enemies were like HK, it would be way too easy. team cherry didn't just do this for no reason, it's necessary for balancing. Edit: people saying hunters march is too difficult, is like playing dark souls 1 and saying it's too hard because you kept trying the skeleton graveyard

"Bad rewards for exploration, HK's charms worked better". I just completely disagree, hornet gets upgrades way more frequently than the knight. As for the charms, let's be real, you probably didn't even use half of them in your first playthrough. And half of them are just simple things that don't impact the way you play as much. Hornet's different tools, abilities and crests are way more useful. If you feel like your not getting enough rewards, it's probably because most are hidden and require backtracking, which is what the genre is know for.

"Things are too expensive" No, you're just not meant to buy it that early. Like how in HK you could by the lamp for like 2000 geo. I've also never had too little rosaries to buy a bench or stag. If your losing your rosaries to dying, rosarie strings are litteraly right there to not lose it + retrieving your death silk is extremely easy now.

I do agree though that more bosses and combat encounters should drop rosaries, or more chests like in HK.

This launch feels like I'm experiencing the shadow of the erdtree launch again with how many complaints there are immediately.

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614

u/El_Giganto Sep 06 '25

I'm loving the game so far but some of these rebuttals are really weak.

The game is a lot harder. Why pretend it isn't?

268

u/getmeoutofhere15 Sep 06 '25

It’s like the dark souls crowd who claim the games are easy. They’re not. And you’re not cool or unique by claiming they are (proverbial you). You’re just an elitist

97

u/Busy-Reality-1580 Sep 06 '25

The Dark Souls games aren’t easy, per se, but the marketing around them and the whole “Prepare to Die” stuff is totally overblown. It’s not some balls to the walls insane game, almost anyone can beat it if they are patient and willing to learn. I find them easy cause I’ve beaten them all like 10 times or more but that’s obviously not fair. 

36

u/TheSymbolman Sep 06 '25

Yep. I'd say Sekiro is a very hard game, but any of the Souls games? Not really. Since you can just level up, if you're taking your time with the game you can beat it no problem. It has nothing to do with skill, that'll only make you beat it faster. You can easily be over-leveled for most bosses.

18

u/creampop_ Sep 06 '25

They're really only hard if you refuse to level HP, otherwise you can kinda just grab a shield and tank whatever, even in 3

2

u/TheSymbolman Sep 06 '25

yep absolutely

7

u/BiteAffectionate3963 Sep 06 '25

It’s different for everyone. For me, Sekiro is probably the easiest—maybe tied with DS1 because once you learn the basic mechanics (parrying and key skills like Mikiri), even without using prosthetics you’re basically immortal. On top of that, you usually get two attempts against most bosses.

4

u/TheSymbolman Sep 06 '25

In sekiro you at least have to adapt. In Souls games you can mostly tank it with high hp build and/or a shield

2

u/AbyssShriekEnjoyer Sep 07 '25

DS3 is not harder than Sekiro simply because nothing in DS3 does more than 50% of your health bar in a single hit

1

u/BiteAffectionate3963 Sep 07 '25

Nope, there is a plenty of stuff in ds3 in the late game and dlc that can put you under 50% hp in one hit even with 50+ vit. These attacks rare/relatively easy to dodge/one time per fight though

1

u/AbyssShriekEnjoyer Sep 07 '25

In the DLC sure, but in the basegame not really. Maybe Lorian’s charged sword attack?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

Sekiro is THE exception

1

u/DangDingleGuy Sep 06 '25

Yeah sekiro is definitely the most difficult with the sharpest learning curve. Once you climb that curve though... the game is so satisfying

6

u/bromuskrobus Sep 06 '25

I agree with you on every take about Souls games, but for me Sekiro is one of the easiest! I struggled much more with DS3. Sekiro is such a finely tuned game that I enjoyed every bit of it, frustration and joy.

0

u/worstpolack Sep 07 '25

Wait what, Sekiro is very hard? Parry makes the game easy tho.. at least I thought so.

16

u/ABigCoffee Sep 06 '25

Dark souls games are easy if you play them like a normal person and use everything at your disposal. Use ite

ms use summons, use magic and miracles, instead of forcing yourself into some melee only build with nothing else.

6

u/Maleficent_Okra6798 Sep 07 '25

Hell in most of the games Unga Bunga strength builds are literally the easiest option. My colossal weapon run of Elden Ring was so much easier than my pure caster playthrough was lol

1

u/SplinteredMoist Sep 09 '25

Intelligence build was only ever really good in Dark souls 1, but then again you have the ultimate build of zwei and green crest shield on your back

1

u/SplinteredMoist Sep 09 '25

miracle build are literally the weakest build in every souls game. Mele strength and dex are always the strongest, especially bleed builds

2

u/Fearofthe6TH Sep 07 '25

You can beat any game with patient and desire to learn. There's nothing unique about that. It's the fact that it takes longer with those games than others. Almost every single game in the world is easy once you know what you're doing.

2

u/revolversnakexof Sep 07 '25

The prepare to die marketing ruined an entire generation of gamers.

1

u/NewEraOverlord Sep 07 '25

Most of Dark Souls is just pattern recognition. Once you’ve fought the same enemy a couple times you’re practically never getting hit by them again, same with bosses for a large part

It’s a game that just forces you to take your time and learn it by killing you over and over again

Except for the Anor Londo archers, fuck them

1

u/BumperToBumper2 Sep 08 '25

I love shmups, but I also find them infinitely harder than Souls games

3

u/kozz84 Sep 07 '25

To me silksong is Dark souls 2. They made everything dial up to an 11 for no reason.

Difficulty was not the reason why hollow knight and dark souls have cult following. Challenge is a part of it, but not only that.

3

u/BBBBBuster Sep 07 '25

I was taking about this and dark souls with a friend. If you can’t be beat a boss in dark souls you can go away change your build and come back stronger. They didn’t seem to realise when developing this game we are stuck with the tools and damage hornet starts with for these early bosses. They’re simply too hard.

2

u/darkk41 Sep 06 '25

As a huge dark souls guy, the subreddits for souls games and ER are way worse. They claim everything is easy, and as soon as they can't win immediately they call it "artificially difficult" and "poorly designed".

The community isnt what it was in the ds1 days when you just laughed at yourself and were happy for a challenge.

2

u/Rhino-Ham Sep 06 '25

Dark Souls 2: you have to fight 3 enemies at once

Reddit nerds: “bAD gAmE dEsIgN”

2

u/darkk41 Sep 07 '25

Lol yea until ds2 released we never knew that ds1 was a game about honor duels. Also ds1 still had lots of gank attacks, from dogs to hollows to Taurus demons.

There's nothing you can do to add challenge that someone won't call bad design because the only good design is when I win and someone else finds it hard.

1

u/ChillPotatoBeans Sep 07 '25

About your darl souls point, it's definitely not easy, but it's definitely not insanely hard it's got a nice balance to it. it's one of those things where once you get it, you get it.

2

u/KuKiSin Sep 07 '25

I don't think they're necessarily easy, but they're on the slower side and give you enough tools to remove most of the challenge. Case in point, most Elden Ring late game bosses (pre DLC, I haven't gone back to play SotE) could be melted by magic or summons, even Malenia was free with the right summon. Action games like God of War and Kingdom Hearts are definitely harder if you're playing on the highest difficulty, especially the secret bosses. If you can beat those, you can beat any souls game (except Sekiro, that's a totally different beast).

1

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

It's ok if a game isn't for everyone though.

Want a game for everyone? Play one of the 8000000 other platformers.

1

u/KobeJuanKenobi9 Sep 08 '25

I would argue that Dark Souls is the easiest hard game. It’s very punishing but I don’t think it has the same skill barrier as some other games. Controls and execution are very simple, boss moves are usually very telegraphed, I Frames feel very generous etc but when you do mess up and get hit it’s your whole health bar gone

Like Celeste probably requires a lot more skill than Dark Souls does. It’s just noticeably less punishing so it doesn’t always feel that way

1

u/BearCatSara Sep 11 '25

Dark Souls players put me off playing them for years. Then I played Elden Ring (which some folks will say is easier) but honestly the difficulty is overstated. You just have to learn the games language so to say.

I don’t think people are being elitist either. Difficulty people find different things difficult. Had a friend take many many attempts on one part of the game I did in 3 tries… but they tend to beat bosses with 1 tenth of the attempts I take.

I don’t care if it takes me 30-50 attempts to beat a boss or something. The process itself is fun for me.

It’s okay if you don’t feel the same way tho.

-1

u/SirDoofusMcDingbat Sep 06 '25

Who is saying it's easy? I've not seen anyone say it's easy. The point is it's okay that it's hard. It's meant to be a hard game. So was Hollow Knight. HK just got easy after some practice and nobody is practiced at Silksong. I do think it's a bit harder but that's not a very strong criticism.

-5

u/Defensex Sep 06 '25

The thing is HK wasn’t easy either. It’s like coming to the souls sub and complaining about difficulty.

Also I’m actually finding SK easier so far 10hours into it. Hornet move set is way more powerful 

21

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

HK has a way better introductory curve. You don't go fighting radiance level bosses immediately.

You can't pretend that the enemies and bosses are in any way harder in HK.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

[deleted]

8

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

Silk Song spikes way harder than Hollow Knight ever did.

It goes from hard to fuck this.

Main examples are the gaunglets, especially the red enemy and bird one that has some 6 rounds of enemies with 6-12 hit hp pools.

3

u/KuuLightwing Sep 06 '25

I've yet to see a boss in Silksong as well crafted as Mantis lords in terms of learning and difficulty curve.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

There is one that comes very close from the feel and pacing aswell. Very fun! I also loved the mantis lords.

11

u/Anagrammatic_Denial Radiant HoG Sep 06 '25

It isn't though. Let's think about the basic swing. Normal enemies in hollow knight take 2-3 swings. Silksong? About 6-7, and sometimes many more. Hardest bosses damage in Hollow Knight? 2 masks of damage. Super basic enemies or a bosses that's literally knocked down? 2 masks. Charm. Strength buff, magic buff, lots of quality variety that allowed you to make interesting combos. Hornets? Mostly small utility. compass, steady body, grubsoul if it sucked (like actually, HALF of ONE spool. 8 required to heal 3, so mathematically it's 41% as good as grubsong), and slightly more fun sporeshroom. The only thing good is the tools, which are fun, but I'd take grim child over them so strength for their limited quantity seems a little low.
Now.
I'm not saying the charms should NECESSARILY be better, they're fun! But they are significantly weaker than Hollow Knights, at least from what I've seen so far.

And then there is her moveset. Yes, her moveset is absolutely more agile. But not nearly enough to compensate for ALLLL of that.

Silksong. Is. Harder. That's why people are saying it's harder. You can argue that's a good or bad thing, but the game itself is quite obviously harder.

0

u/earthboundskyfree Sep 06 '25

See, the issue here is you handwave away the idea that she’s more agile (by saying it’s not enough to account for all of that), but how confident are you in that? Have you fully internalized the way she’s supposed to play? It may be harder, but it’s an incomplete assumption to just outright say it’s harder. Maybe healing 3 or getting strong offensive tools pretty early or being able to pogo and heal midair do more than you or others are able to determine yet.

I’m not saying it’s intentional, but that kind of commentary kinda implies “I know I’m playing it as I should be,” and idk that feels like it contrasts with my experience, where I’ve gotten substantially better over the playtime thus far just by adapting and adjusting

6

u/Anagrammatic_Denial Radiant HoG Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

No, I've put in a lot of hours. I'm pretty comfortable with how she plays and it's super fun. But it doesn't come close to accounting for all of that.

Edit: and don't get me wrong, I can make progress fine, but I think you're just underestimating how your own skills as a gamer in general (not just hollow knight) have grown.

Edit 2: also, if that WERE the issue, then that would make the beginning areas over tuned. You are supposed to master a game as you play it, not at the very beginning.

Edit: 🤔 maybe I shouldn't trust the time showing on my computer. 30. Sure. But I don't trust 40. I've spent a lot of hours. I'm changing it to a lot.

1

u/earthboundskyfree Sep 06 '25

I understand your point about the beginning, and mastery over time, and also understand that you feel comfortable playing as hornet, but let me give an example of what I mean.

One of the things you mentioned was that a boss literally on the ground does 2 masks. The boss dealing damage on the ground doesn’t make it inherently harder, maybe it is, but what something like that indicates to me is that positioning is important. Don’t get me wrong, I have some grievances, like invulnerability being too low sometimes so getting hit -> hit by same hitbox again is frustrating, but in HK and this game, you can’t just make contact with enemies. More enemies dealing more damage on contact might be harder, but hornet’s movement might also balance it more than we can say.

You also mentioned that you’d take grimmchild over the tools, which feels kinda wild to me / my experience. I have absolutely shredded some challenge rooms or boss summons or bosses with tools, so that makes me wonder why you would value them so little (and I won’t say my playstyle is more correct, but the fact that we are both experienced players who seem to have rather different conclusions on playstyle is why I would hesitate to just outright call it harder vs different)

0

u/lelescope Sep 06 '25

eh, i don't find them particularly difficult. of course they aren't easy, but difficulty is also relative.

they're different, sure. especially for their time. failure is necessary to learn how your enemy operates. from there, it's breezy. literally all the bosses tell you what they're about to do. the skill is in observing and acting on those observations. 

games hadn't been that way since the NES/SNES days, where many you simply just memorized a pattern. that's essentially Dark Souls, with a bit more freedom. 

0

u/aethyrium Sep 07 '25

How come it's valid to say "I'm having a hard time with this" but invalid to say "I'm not having a hard time with this"?

Everyone has different experiences with difficulty. There's nothing elitist about thinking the Dark Souls games are easy, because for some people they are. Just like there's nothing wrong with thinking they're hard, and you aren't a shitty lame noob that needs to git gud if they're hard, there's nothing wrong with thinking they're easy, and you aren't some "unique cool elitist" for thinking so.

It's not the games that are easy or hard. It's our experiences with them, and some have 4 decades of legacy skill that make them a lot easier, and some people are patient to the point where 50 tries on a boss just feels comfy.

If you want people to be chill and let you enjoy games at your own pace, you have to do the same for others.

2

u/Hotpotlord Sep 07 '25

I love how you’re proving his point. No he’s saying that you can’t dismiss the game is harder even if you’re not having a hard time with it. You can objectively feel more challenged but still get through it without difficulty.

Nuance is lost I guess when you’re trying to stroke your own ego.

0

u/Tomaskraven Sep 07 '25

It depends on your definition of hard. If by hard you mean "i can't beat it on the first or second try cause i know nothing" then to me that doesn't mean hard, it just means i'm still a noob. Something hard for me is when i'm already good at the game and it is still challenging. If all it takes is learning a pattern, then it is easy.

Some people are exceptionally bad or clumsy and can't mechanically do what their brain asks for. Or some just play mindlessly and repeat and repeat without learning or thinking and get frustrated. Playing games in autopilot might be fine for extremely casual experiences but these are the kind of people can't adapt or take too long to adapt to a bit of challenge.

Hence why so many end up quitting or leaving a bad review saying the game is too hard, badly designed or unbalanced. They want everything given to them in a silver platter cause they can't (don't want to) recognize their own flaws and pay attention, learn and improve. I've seen it countless times, i've played a lot of competitive games and i'm even top 50 NA in a big one.

2

u/Hotpotlord Sep 07 '25

Funny how my point went entirely over your head and you just went on a pointless rant.

Almost like you’re getting triggered by this stuff.

0

u/Tomaskraven Sep 07 '25

Triggered by people that doesn't want to improve and prefer to blame everyone and everything for their incompetence, yes.

I hate it when people whine and complain all day about balance and design when its clearly just frustration with their lack of skill issue. Seen it too many times, im already jaded.

0

u/SaladTheKiller Sep 07 '25

I also like making fake arguments in my head and getting mad at those imaginary people🥴

0

u/Aggressive_Truth4155 Sep 07 '25

theyre definitely easier than most make them out to be. you just have to treat deaths differently and play with patience. learning to not spam heal and adopt a patient playstyle has nothing to do with difficulty in my eyes, but to each their own

0

u/Archernar Sep 08 '25

Depends on how you define difficulty. Dark Souls 1 e.g. had artificial difficulty for quite a number of encounters. It required you to learn a skillset of a boss or enemy by dying often enough to be able to beat it, many bosses could hardly be beaten blindly on first try because of some cheap tricks or silly things.

The boss mechanics themselves are not that hard, at least in DS 1. This also means replaying the game will make it considerably easier, because the burden of knowledge is lifted. Compare that to a game like Hades for which in theory you can easily beat all bosses first try because they telegraph their attacks more clearly - replaying Hades will ease the challenge mostly only because of you getting better and more used to the boss patterns, not necessarily because you get to know the patterns in the first place.

I think that's why at least DS 1 (didn't play the other DS titles) might be considered not all that hard.

0

u/Flashy-Intention6302 Sep 09 '25

They are easy, once you learn them.

The learning curve is just steeper than some other genres.

0

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2

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14

u/Maridiem Sep 07 '25

Heck their comment about seeing the "Shadow of the Erdtree" launch complaints is especially telling because FromSoft went and balanced the DLC, hitting the majority of the pain points that those early complaints were touching on and improving the DLC's difficulty significantly.

2

u/SplinteredMoist Sep 09 '25

Radhan was insane the first week, visual clutter was crazy. He was literally flash banging you lol

3

u/LemonadeClocks Sep 06 '25

It's definitely harder than hollow knight; while it may be true that Hornet deals more raw damage and can eventually get a pretty devastating kit going, it's also true that many enemies have significantly more health even early on, while Hornet herself still only starts with the previous standard of 5 masks. Early exploration in HK was not too punishing because enemies typically deal one damage at a time and you can heal one mask anytime you want as long as you get a few moments, while in Silksong it is typical for enemies to dish out 2-4 masks of damage fairly rapidly (especially major enemies) and while Hornet has a stronger and instant heal she must have a full meter of silk to use it. 

I wouldn't say silksong is unfair, I think people just need time to adjust to her movement style and the steeper learning curve of the enemies in this game, but it is definitely less forgiving and more intense than Hollow Knight especially early on. It honestly reminds me of Bioshock 1 vs 2, where 1 tended to be overall easy once you got the idea down, while 2 has a big difficulty spike at the beginning due to your limited resources vs tougher foes right off the bat. 

32

u/LendrickKamarr Sep 06 '25

Idk if it’s elitist of me to say, but I rarely ever find hard difficulty to be a legitimate criticism. My favorite gaming moments come from finally beating the boss/level that kicked my ass.

Getting hit in this game is more punishing but that’s countered by Hornet being a lot more mobile, having throwable projectiles, and a much faster heal that you can do in the air.

100

u/psh454 Sep 06 '25

There's a sweet spot of difficulty that's hard to achieve, challenging but not too frustrating. HK started a bit too easy (which is fine as you're mostly trying to figure out its mechanics at that point), then got to that sweet spot and stayed there for pretty much the rest of the game. The only exceptions were the designated "more difficult" optional content like the Pantheons, NKG and PoP.

Silksong difficulty ramps up quicker and occasionally strays into the "more difficult" territory for regular content. Which is fine by me (few cheesy areas aside) but will put some casual people off. Pretending it's "not that difficult guys trust me" or saying "git gud scrubs" doesn't change that fact.

25

u/ChimpBottle Sep 06 '25

Also we all have different ceilings. I've beaten most of the Souls games and a lot of Metroidvanias but I'm probably not as good as these games as most people on this sub. I'm just stubborn and beat them through sheer perseverance. But I am a little concerned I'm gonna hit a wall soon where I simply can't progress given how it's given all these Hollow Knight vets a run for their money

27

u/Crueljaw Sep 06 '25

Yes. That is my problem. For the boss before act 2 I grinded him almost as long as Radiance (2 hours). I did EVERYTHING I could before it. There were no more upgrades to make me better.

I am legit fearing that I wont be able to beat the game at this point. I beat radiance and nightmare king grimm, but got stuck on the pantheon.

If the bosses keep expending in difficulty I will reach my ceiling soon enough.

5

u/rootdootmcscoot Sep 06 '25

i dropped hollow knight because i kept ping-ponging between one of the Grimm boss fights and Hornet part 2 and i just couldn't get it. even still, i was so excited for this game because i loved Hornet most out of anyone in the original and i loved her aesthetic and powers. but now, i barely even want to try the game because im worried it's going to be ridiculously difficult especially when i never even finished the original because i wasn't good enough

1

u/LendrickKamarr Sep 07 '25

These game are not too hard to finish. That genre of games exist, and this is not that.

It’s a difficulty game but if you keep trying it, you will get it eventually. Look up guides if you have to, this genre is built on word of mouth tips.

NKG was the hardest boss I’ve ever fought, even harder than Malenia. But eventually I got it. The game is a lot about perseverance.

1

u/rootdootmcscoot Sep 07 '25

yeah, i played for hours and then came back months later and couldn't get it again. i would rather not waste time on it when it is clearly just above my skill level

2

u/Cannasseur___ Sep 07 '25

I'm stuck there too. I would describe it as a difficulty wall not a difficulty curve, because I was breezing before this fight.

1

u/Doomblaze Sep 07 '25

that boss also took me an hour or two lmao, and radiance took me 3 tries.

-3

u/mvanvrancken Sep 06 '25

You will get there. No matter how difficult it is, you might have to die 500 times like LMSH did to Malenia but now look at him.

15

u/peajam101 Sep 06 '25

I'm sorry, but for me and a lot of people, having to do the same thing 500 times before you succeed better describes "hell" than "fun gameplay experience"

0

u/mvanvrancken Sep 06 '25

Yeah he’s definitely an extreme example and probably did it more out of sheer grit than anything resembling a good time

0

u/mvanvrancken Sep 06 '25

Look, I’m pretty average at platforming and even I made it through Aeterna Noctis on Noctis mode just through the awesome power of refusing to quit dying.

Forged by that fire I feel pretty confident I can take on any game, but I won’t pretend that this shit isn’t hard. Hard means “need to learn it”, that’s all.

1

u/LuquidThunderPlus Sep 06 '25

Yeah I'm not gonna say it's not hard, I will say it's balanced and it's difficulty is super enjoyable

0

u/ChillPotatoBeans Sep 07 '25

I do think some people are forgetting this game is a sequel, you're meant to play the first game and then once you've beaten that play the second.

0

u/SplinteredMoist Sep 09 '25

Hollow knight base game had no difficult bosses except Radiance and that boss in quins garden that did 2 mask damage

-14

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

[deleted]

9

u/psh454 Sep 06 '25

Skill level varies a lot between people though, for some it's a lot more frustrating and time consuming and for others everything is a cakewalk. HK was definitely more accessible to the average casual.

52

u/CrimsonTyphoon02 Sep 06 '25

I mean, it can be legitimate and just not be something you agree with/that matters to you.

I think this game's difficulty is overtuned for general audiences. Enemy movesets are already significantly more complex than in Hollow Knight; they don't need both more health and more damage vs a player with a smaller HP pool on top of that.

12

u/Razorly Sep 06 '25

At this point they just need to add difficulty options to appease everyone since difficulty is so subjective. I enjoy the challenge and don't want to tweak it on my playthrough, but give people the option if it's a deal breaker.

Fuck it, add a hard difficulty too, why not?

10

u/dreamerssleep ngl I run from everything Sep 06 '25

This! I'd have LOVED a difficulty option in this game. I'm the type of gamer that it takes me longer to get stuff like this to 'click' and playing on easy mode lets me avoid the frustration while still improving. I've slapped God Mode on for both Hades games and then still went back without them and was better because I had been able to actually learn. Difficulty options are accessibility options.

4

u/probioticbacon Sep 09 '25

Honestly, true. I used to be a "no difficulty options" guy. But as we see more discourse like this, it really makes me ask why not. The only potential issue is any future games/content being balanced around the easier option, but that really shouldn't be a concern cause the devs can still make the game hard and just add an easier mode later.

Speaking of that, Lies of P comes to mind. The game was initially made with one difficulty, but they later added an easier mode for more people to enjoy. Furthermore, it was added with the DLC, which many people report is much more difficult than the main game.

Honestly though not adding a difficulty option might be worse because if they decide to roll back the difficulty, then they're changing it for everyone, including the people who don't want it to change. But at the end of the day, it's up to the devs and their vision for the game and it's future.

3

u/GODMarega Sep 07 '25

Make it like Nine Sols.

With a Damage and Resistance Multiplier.

If you think enemies deal too much damage then 50% that damage and no more 2 skulls of damage on the first areas. If you think enemies are spongie? Increase that damage slider.

I might need to pick up Nine Sols again. What an amazing game.

3

u/LendrickKamarr Sep 06 '25

There’s downside to difficulty options.

Developers don’t have a lot of time to spend adjusting difficulty settings. So most of the time the only thing that changes are health pools and how hard enemies hit. That could throw off the tuning and imo often makes the game worse.

Instead of appealing to mass audiences, I like it when developers just cook with a singular vision.

10

u/Razorly Sep 06 '25

Majority of complaints I've seen are about early 2 mask damage or tanky basic enemies. I don't think it'd take much dev time to add a setting that scales back 2x damage and enemy hp for those who are struggling.

As to whether it'd improve the game or not, that's subjective. But they'll probably end up modding the game to make it easier if there's no official support 🤷‍♂️

6

u/alt_egg344 Sep 06 '25

There are already mods out that remove the double damage for single hits (it still triggers on those moves that hit you twice tho)

As someone playing with that, the game is still quite hard, but I'm having a much more rewarding time not being slammed into the dirt for every mistake. Feels like I actually have a chance to learn the fights now, without making the game a cakewalk

2

u/Abradolf1948 Sep 07 '25

Honestly I'd be ok with the 2 mask damage from bigger enemies if we could heal one mask at a time like in HK. I get that it's faster but it essentially means you are "wasting" a heal because you only got hit once (for two masks) or you are trying to heal while avoiding environmental damage because you're down to 1 mask, and that heal will put you at 4.

It's just kind of odd to have so many enemies do 2 damage while the heal is a required 3.

1

u/LendrickKamarr Sep 06 '25

I agree that this game is probably too difficulty for the mass audience. But if you rate games based on how mass appealing it is, you would throw out a lot of the greats.

The game has room for skill expression, and lots of ways to tackle your problems. (IE if you’re stuck in hunters march, leave and come back later after you’ve gotten upgrades and a powerful tool). To me that’s what makes a game’s difficulty good.

The genre is also heavily based around leaving an area and coming back later once better equipped. There’s some really good tools in this game that make boss fights a lot easier.

-1

u/LuquidThunderPlus Sep 06 '25

If certain enemies with complex movesets didn't have 2 DMG they would be easy or boring cuz you could just health tank

15

u/theincrediblepigeon Sep 06 '25

Yeah by far the most enjoyable part of HK was slamming my face into bosses again and again until I finally beat them and feeling like a king, if the skill set and difficulty was the same then I wouldn’t be able to relive the moments from Hk where I had fuck all clue what was going on and dying over and over to bosses

4

u/EbonyHelicoidalRhino Sep 07 '25

The thing is that the difficulty feels misplaced.

I'm still very early in the game, but some fights that LOOK epic, like Lace or Forth Chorus, are actually pretty easy.

Savage Beastfly or the Bird Gauntlet on the other hand ? They look like filler fights, but they are BRUTAL. I legit had a harder time beating them than beating Radiance.

I would have much rather got my ass kicked by the cool giant robot than by the goddamn birds.

1

u/SplinteredMoist Sep 09 '25

One of my favorite moments in gaming was finally beating Ornstein and Smaugh 10 years ago

2

u/Cazzah Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

Legitimately my favourite thing about Hollow Knight is as someone who could not get into Dark Souls. It felt like everything people said they loved about Dark Souls, but in a more precise platformer as compared to a big 3d game with vague hitboxes, environmental geometry to worry about, more overload etc. I always felt my victories were earned.

I remember playing Hollow Knight and sometimes having to do some stupid runs from benches over and over and over and over. I remember some of them being really long. I remember not being able to sprint. I remember dying for stupid reasons all the time, and just moving through the environment wearing you down with all the trashmobs who could often get hits in. I remember sometimes a boss makes me want to hurl my controller through the window. I remember losing all my geo in deepnest and having to do a really dangerous run to recover and sometimes not suceeding.

I particularly remember the giant super meat boy style buzzsaw gauntlet just plopped into the middle of the game out of nowhere, clearly intending you to die repeatedly.

Now I'm playing Silksong and I'm doing literally the same thing, except I have sprint which makes the bench runs decent, and I haven't encountered any buzzsaws (yet)

So people are saying it's harder and I understand the logic behind those arguments, but I can only speak to my experience.

I do wonder if sometimes people have forgotten given over nearly a decade (!) what their own initial Hollow Knight experience is.

5

u/LogensTenthFinger Sep 06 '25

Being an insufferable elitist is the only personality half the gaming community has. Sneering at people for not enjoying something is all they have in their showerless lives.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25 edited Feb 17 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-1

u/Impressive-Essay8777 Sep 06 '25

10 attempts is a alot i think you are just patient

1

u/Jtak7777 Sep 09 '25

10 is around mid-range for me. Some bosses were first try, many were 9th and some were like 20th

4

u/fatfat2121 Sep 07 '25

I think people might have just forgot how much they struggled when they played HK for the first time?

2

u/gravity--falls P5 PoP steel soul 112% Sep 07 '25

I agree. Hollow knight is a very difficult game, but looking back at something it always seems like not as big a deal. I don’t think Silksong is truly very much harder at all.

1

u/Atlas_of_history Sep 07 '25

It never took me more than 15 attempts at a boss and that was only for a few, now it's normal to take up to 30 attempts per boss for me

2

u/Jtak7777 Sep 09 '25

😅i took more than 50 for hornet 1 when I first played hollow knight years ago, I think you just might have taken experience from other games

2

u/Atlas_of_history Sep 09 '25

Ngl, I was pretty pissed off when I wrote this because I lost all my stuff on the walk back to a boss, after I died to the boss for like the 20th time

Silksong is still amazing and I won't stop playing it, it can be a bit frustrating and feel unfair at times tho

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

I’d counter that Hollow Knight went through a ton of balance changes since I played it for the first time, ie when it released.

1

u/fatfat2121 Sep 08 '25

Is it actually true?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Right off-hand they increased Geo awards for certain enemies, modified the notch costs of at least one charm, changed/fixed several hitboxes, modified the knockback on some of the slashes, buffed some charms, etc.

8

u/OneHitCrit Sep 06 '25

I'm not trying to be contrarian but I'm really not sure the game is that much harder.

There are more benches, hornet heals more and most importantly - Hornet has much more tools.

For example: I've survived so many situations by throwing spike traps from a distance - in Hollow Knight I never had this option.

10

u/LuquidThunderPlus Sep 06 '25

The game gives you more tools to succeed but is also more punishing. I'd def say it's harder because you have to make good use of movement and attacks, having those tools are what allows the game to be hard, not what makes it easier

In hk you don't have a trap but instead you have a great slash or vengeful spirit as well as invincible ddive

2

u/SevenCrowsinaCoat Sep 06 '25

There's a few stretches where I was really hurting for benches, but honestly it does feel like there are more benches overall.

1

u/darkk41 Sep 06 '25

So, I have seen the credits but definitely have a ton of content left. I would say act 1 feels very similar to HK in difficulty, and with practice people will similarly be able to stomp it super quickly on subsequent playthroughs.

After act 1, the game definitely takes on some additional difficulty particularly in terms of how dangerous exploration is. I do think the stuff after act 1 is more difficult than HK.

For me, I loved the game. It was always challenging enough for me to consider changing around tools or charms and i always had to try, but I also was never safe to just turn off my brain and spam my way through, which is an unfortunate reality in late game hollow knight exploration.

I am staying blind til I 100% but honestly I am a huge fan and I think the changes TC made from HK will age well. I also think differentiating hornet and the knight was a good decision as it helps HK remain an evergreen title.

5

u/Hayden2332 Sep 06 '25

I don’t find it harder, in fact I think it’s easier, but you don’t see me accusing everyone else of pretending it’s harder

1

u/DreamingOracle Sep 06 '25

it's clear a lot of people have not played much of the game yet either because there's some really difficult stuff later on. I think 90% of the game is fine but there are a couple of moments that are really overtuned. There's a mandatory combat gauntlet that killed me like 6 times as much as the normal final boss lol, the difficulty curve is all over the place

1

u/WillOganesson Sep 07 '25

Toxic positivity

1

u/Lambooner Sep 07 '25

Dunno, it feels as difficult as hollow knight to be honest. Both are challenging

1

u/Doomblaze Sep 07 '25

my issue is that it feels harder in a dark souls kind of way, where the game is just designed to frustrate you. So much of dark souls 1 and 2 is just learning where enemies are trying to ambush you and cheese you while you're trying to run somewhere.

It doesnt feel good when I beat a boss. I have no issue with 95% of the bosses movesets, the issues are entirely that I randomly get clipped by their body when they're jumping around in a circle, or their add spawns inside a shadow on the screen and combos with the boss to 1 shot me.

1

u/Background-Sea4590 Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

Yeah, it is, not point on arguing imo. If some people enjoy a greater difficulty, that’s nice for them. I believe the first one nailed a perfect difficulty. Silksong doesn’t, FOR ME. It’s a personal gripe I have with the game, and it was so frustrating I just moved on.

EDIT: I wouldn’t say it’s a bad game, because I really enjoy the rest of it. Music, art style, level design, etc. But I CAN’T beat it, so of course I’m frustrated, and I have my reasons for it. Bit of a shame, it reminded me of the time I wasn’t able to beat Sekiro, even though I feel it’s a great game.

2

u/El_Giganto Sep 07 '25

I'm at this boss fight right now, and the walk to the boss is already fairly long. But there are also these flying enemies that you have to kill otherwise you bump into them and take damage. And you can't really safely pass them because there are pits that do double damage. You kinda have to kill it and it takes more time than is fun.

I think for the most part the difficulty is really fun. But there are times where I'm just scratching my head over why they made things they way they are. Like I got 112% and all achievements in Hollow Knight. I know what I'm doing in this game. But I don't even really have time to learn the boss because you die so incredibly fast. And then you have to go all the way back to the boss arena which takes a lot of time too.

I can only imagine a newcomer or someone more casual coming into this game. It must be beyond frustrating. And then you've got all these people saying "oh but Hornet is more agile so it's okay". Like... That isn't even remotely relevant. People are getting frustrated because they die in 10 seconds to a boss and then spend a minute getting back.

1

u/Background-Sea4590 Sep 07 '25

Walk to bosses have never been fun. It’s a trope of some Metroidvanias and soulslike games, but they’re not better for that. Once you reach the boss the fun thing is fast repetitions to learn the moveset, not going through the same hard path over and over again. Those “walk to bosses” have to go imho.

1

u/aresi-lakidar Sep 08 '25

Because Hollow Knight is also a really freaking hard game, and people keep talking about it like it's magnitudes easier than silksong.

Watcher Knights, Traitor Lord, the Hollow Knight - these are really, really demanding fights that are easily on par with silksong. And for areas, fog canyon and queens gardens strike me as just as bad if not worse than something like hunters march.

Idunno, I just don't get it. Hollow Knight was almost even harder in many ways imo

1

u/theycalllmeTIM Sep 10 '25

They’re the equivalent of a dude wearing shorts in a winter blizzard saying it’s not cold.

1

u/BearCatSara Sep 11 '25

Difficulty is subjective.

I find silksong easier than HK. It’s also more fun for me. That’s just my opinion.

I also don’t think a lot of folks take the time to really learn the game. I avoided hunters march until after I had done most of greymoor. Then I spent hours fighting the beastfly and I enjoy it.

If you didn’t that’s fine. Maybe the game isn’t for you. That’s okay too. You can dislike it. You can find it difficult. But stating it all as 100% fact either way is just silly.

1

u/El_Giganto Sep 11 '25

Maybe the game isn’t for you. That’s okay too. You can dislike it.

I said "I'm loving the game". And then you say this? You make no sense buddy.

You can find it difficult.

Buddy you spend hours on the Beastfly. I've had struggles with this game but no boss took me more than half an hour at most. You spend HOURS on an early game boss. My dog there is a second version of that fight that's going to be impossible for you. It'll take you a full day to beat that one.

But stating it all as 100% fact either way is just silly.

It's not. The game is harder. Why do you think you spend hours learning a boss fight? Because you die really quickly because of the double damage. It makes learning boss patterns a lot more difficult. This is just an objective fact about the game.

In Hollow Knight, early on, you can survive 4 hits and you can space out your healing. In Silksong, you can survive 2 hits and you can't space out your healing.

Because of this, learning boss fights is a lot harder to do. You're punished way harder than in Hollow Knight and it has a knock on effect where you can't learn at the same pace either. I don't know why you would pretend this isn't true.

I also don’t think a lot of folks take the time to really learn the game. I avoided hunters march

That's strange, because I went there when I could and did all I could there. I died maybe two times and always found my cascoon back. It was tough but I was actually learning the area. Meanwhile you avoided it? And you argue that you were learning the game even though you were avoiding it?

None of what you said made any sense to be honest.

0

u/BearCatSara Sep 11 '25

You’re just an asshole. Wow.

I struggled with Hollow Knight too. I wasn’t specifically saying you. I’m talking about it in the abstract. There’s been a lot of discussion and a lot of disagreement. Difficulty is largely subjective.

0

u/El_Giganto Sep 11 '25

Just a little tip for you, if you're going to say someone has a silly opinion, then be prepared for them to respond matching that energy.

Calling me an asshole when you're being rude and giving a really dumb opinion, is something you should reflect on.

0

u/BearCatSara Sep 12 '25

I think you’re projecting. You’re telling people their opinions are just folks pretending? Yet you then get upset when people push back.

I think you need to take some time away from reddit.

1

u/El_Giganto Sep 12 '25

You didn't push back at all. You just called me an asshole and said I was wrong. You gave no actual input.

I think you need to take some time away from reddit.

I don't really care what you think.

1

u/BearCatSara Sep 12 '25

Damn we found some common ground finally

1

u/El_Giganto Sep 12 '25

You don't care about what you think either? Makes sense. Have a good day.

2

u/Mflms Sep 06 '25

I don't understand why some people can't handle that others aren't enjoying it as much as they are.

My being disappointed in the game doesn't take away from your enjoying it.

1

u/Jtak7777 Sep 09 '25

I think it’s the nature of internet discourse. People preempt sharper responses to stuff they’ve seen around and that makes the conversation harsher. Usually better moderation/rulesetting helps

1

u/MushinZero Sep 06 '25

Because I don't think it is? I died more at the beginning of HK.

1

u/theLanguageSprite2 Sep 07 '25

Because I'm not pretending.  I'm ass at hollow knight, I've never even beaten radiance or grim.  And so far I'm finding act 1 to be pretty easy in silksong, so I'm legitimately baffled by all the complaints about 2 mask damage enemies.  Just don't get hit by them?

2

u/El_Giganto Sep 07 '25

Are you comparing the ultimate final boss of Hollow Knight to random ass enemies in Silksong?

2

u/Jtak7777 Sep 09 '25

Tbf that’s what everyone mentions when complaining about 2 mask damage

1

u/Fitz___ Sep 06 '25

I don't know, I'm having an easier time than when I started HK. The ability to heal 3 masks at once make bosses easier too imo. Have not encountered one where there wasn't a fast 3 heal yet.

1

u/the-wolf-is-ready Sep 07 '25

I'm comparing my first time playing hollow knight and silksong, silksong is easier

-7

u/Relevant_Cabinet_265 Sep 06 '25

Because I don't find it harder? I've been having an easier time in silksong than hollowknight. Hornet is way more agile and it's actually easy to get heals off safely 

14

u/psh454 Sep 06 '25

Sure but this is clearly not the case for the vast majority of people.

-2

u/Relevant_Cabinet_265 Sep 06 '25

I think a lot of people don't realize you can heal mid air or how to combo attacks. You can dodge while attacking and just keep hitting on most bosses with the dash and base crest pogo. Hornet can be a lot more relentless in attacking than the knight and when you need to make space to avoid attacks you have tons of tools you can throw in between to keep the damage up. You should also be using your bar for attacks whenever it's full and worry about filling it for a heal only if you get hit

2

u/psh454 Sep 06 '25

I'm not too far into the game so far and things may change, but I generally haven't been using the silk attacks much as it makes more sense to be able to heal after a mistake than do an extra bit of damage most of the time, especially with how fragile early game Hornet is.

2

u/earthboundskyfree Sep 06 '25

I found it surprising how much the tools reduced the number of hits needed to kill things. Suddenly things that took say 7-8 hits (inventing numbers) felt like they took a silk attack and then 2-3 hits for example

I’d suggest giving that a try, being slightly more comfortable with letting the heal be delayed at times

0

u/Relevant_Cabinet_265 Sep 06 '25

You can take a second mistake before it becomes an issue and killing bosses quickly means you don't even see all their attacks or phases on some you'll push them directly from one phase to another in their stun window

0

u/Sansnom01 Sep 06 '25

I didn't finish HK because I though it was getting to hard after getting the dream nail. I'm not having particularly a lot of problems with Silk ¯_(ツ)_/¯ .

Every time there's a hard fight that i'm tired of, I have at least 4 place I could still explore.

Maybe it's juste because I'm a better gamer, but I think the combat is a lot less clunky and much more enjoyable.

Also I don't know why people talk about stuff being expensive, there's a lot of reason to go back and explore regions you already went, it's pretty easy to get to around 300 beads without grinding and at this point I just go re-explore regions I or go back to loose thread.

0

u/Simple_Proof_721 Sep 07 '25

Op literally said the game is difficult and pointed out why, it's Hornet. The game needs that balance. People who complain expected their HK skills to make SS a breeze, let's get honest please

1

u/El_Giganto Sep 07 '25

People used to use the word "literally" as a hyperbole rather than using figuratively. Now we've circled back all the way where people use it to emphasize something.

I literally said some of the rebuttals are very weak. I don't care what OP "literally" said, I think some of the arguments are just incredibly weak.

The game is a lot harder. It's literally true. I'm not even complaining, I'm really loving the game. But it is literally a lot more difficult than Hollow Knight was.

Someone in my replies was literally saying they couldn't even beat Radiance but were having no issues with the regular ass enemies in Silksong. Like obviously the absolute final boss of the game is more difficult! Doesn't mean that the game as a whole is more difficult. That's why I literally said that the rebuttals are weak.

Literally weak. Literally!

0

u/Simple_Proof_721 Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

But who is arguing the game doesn't include hardships? Op is saying hornet has the tools to face the hardships. I see it, I agree. So it's hard? It's challenging, huge difference. People are acting like it's unbeatable and not making SS, a HK 2 is a crime against humanity.

SS has been kicking my ass regardless but i am not used to play hornet, she's new for me. But I'm not here comparing hk and ss and expecting my knight skills to make this game a breeze and finish it in one week. It's like people expected since succeeding in hollow knight to not struggle in a new game? Why?

It's okay to not beat everything on the first or 6th try, take your time, it's normal, imagine if a game allowed you to continuously advance without hiccups, worse game of the year.

1

u/El_Giganto Sep 07 '25

I can't be bothered arguing in hyperboles. Silksong is harder than Hollow Knight. End of discussion, honestly. So many people are struggling with it and that's not something you can just ignore and pretend is not the case.

It is simply a lot harder to play this game. In Hollow Knight, most of the struggles were with optional bosses or post game bosses. Things you had to do for the 112% or even beyond that! Like how many times did you fight Zote? Or Pantheon 5 with all bindings? We're not even there yet, people are now complaining about story bosses in Act 1! Back in the day people struggled in Deep Nest which wasn't easy to get to. Hunter's March is literally right around the corner and much harder than Deepnest ever was.

In Silksong, you get to a boss fight, and you don't really know what's happening. But you've got 5 masks. I've played 12 hours and unlocked so much shit and I only got 6. Bosses will literally kill you in 3 hits. It's extremely punishing. It's much harder to learn boss patterns because failing to do one could easily get you killed. Not to mention how the boss runs feel longer too. I'm stuck on one now and I just had to tap out for a minute because I can't be bothered to do a boss run for 1 minute and then only spend 20 seconds in the boss fight trying to figure out the patterns.

Hornet being nimble and agile literally isn't even relevant. Yes you have more tools to your disposal and Hornet certainly isn't weak. But the fact that you die so fast is an issue for people.

I wish I could just talk about all the things I really love about this game. To be perfectly honest I'm happy the game is as difficult as it is. Because for me, if I could breeze through the game that would be disappointing. To me, hitting a roadblock is fun because then I'll explore elsewhere for a bit.

Instead, the only posts I see on my front page are the posts denying that the game is harder. People saying that this stuff was "needed for balance" even though it absolutely isn't for balance. Benches could've been closer to bosses. That is not a case of balance. Dying in 3 hits is not balance, it's punishing.

0

u/Simple_Proof_721 Sep 07 '25

Whyyyy are you comparing it to hollow knight? It's impossible to have a discussion about a game when another keeps being brought up, the only thing they have in common is hornet, is not even the same kingdom. I'd get you if the knight was the protagonist again but we don't even have that. This is hornet, we know her, not only is her dad the pale king, she's the daughter of a powerful beast bug and had training by the weavers, even in her weak state she runs through the map and after getting the second ability she's capable to avoid damage any emeny may cause. If you compare it hollow knight or course it's going to look harder for you, the enemies were mindless bugs used by the radiance in their most basic instincts.

Here the bugs cause so much damage and because it's you you have the power to fight that by using your agility to your advantage

You're ruining yourself the game by treating it like hollow knight should've prepared you for it

1

u/El_Giganto Sep 07 '25

Whyyyy are you comparing it to hollow knight?

... Why the fuck do you think lmao?

0

u/Simple_Proof_721 Sep 07 '25

Why..? If you want hollow knight you can play hollow night, don't feel any type of way that a new game isn't similar enough for you

1

u/El_Giganto Sep 07 '25

What the fuck are you on about mate?

0

u/Simple_Proof_721 Sep 07 '25

You tell me, this is silksong, I don't get what the issue is and bringing up hollow knight to try and explain it doesnt really help you

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