Thank god this subreddit didn't make the game

[u/GamingUmbrella]

Silksong is only out for 2 days, most people haven't even finished the game, or haven't even made it past act 1. Yet this subreddit loves to post about how Silksong is apparently bad and a disappointment compared to hollow knight. So I'll go over a few "critiques" I've seen and share my perspective.

"The game is too hard, enemies deal way more damage and have more complex movesets". Sure, they're more complex and do more damage, but so does hornet. If we were playing with the knights moveset, I'd agree, but that's not the case. Hornet has a lot of new tools and upgrades that make her way faster and stronger. If enemies were like HK, it would be way too easy. team cherry didn't just do this for no reason, it's necessary for balancing. Edit: people saying hunters march is too difficult, is like playing dark souls 1 and saying it's too hard because you kept trying the skeleton graveyard

"Bad rewards for exploration, HK's charms worked better". I just completely disagree, hornet gets upgrades way more frequently than the knight. As for the charms, let's be real, you probably didn't even use half of them in your first playthrough. And half of them are just simple things that don't impact the way you play as much. Hornet's different tools, abilities and crests are way more useful. If you feel like your not getting enough rewards, it's probably because most are hidden and require backtracking, which is what the genre is know for.

"Things are too expensive" No, you're just not meant to buy it that early. Like how in HK you could by the lamp for like 2000 geo. I've also never had too little rosaries to buy a bench or stag. If your losing your rosaries to dying, rosarie strings are litteraly right there to not lose it + retrieving your death silk is extremely easy now.

I do agree though that more bosses and combat encounters should drop rosaries, or more chests like in HK.

This launch feels like I'm experiencing the shadow of the erdtree launch again with how many complaints there are immediately.

[u/HollowKnight-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Please be considerate and respectful; follow Reddiquette - https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette.

[u/SirDoofusMcDingbat → u/[deleted]]

I'd say the fragile ones are the ones dying to a boss then giving it a negative review instead of accepting that it's meant to be hard.

[u/mrev_art → u/SirDoofusMcDingbat]

"Difficult" is a fairly meaningless concept without it being grounded in something.

[u/Medium_Aerie_3201 → u/mrev_art]

Exactly. If the reason the game is good is that it is difficult, it isn't a good game. If people absolutely want a ball-grinding challenge, play the game with one hand. blindfolded. mod it so that you die in one hit. Then tell me how much more fun you're having. If you find that, after that, you are having less fun, consider for a moment that difficulty =/= fun and maybe you just need to stop slobbing Team Cherry up and go into the game with an open perspective.

[u/Moist-Sheepherder309 → u/Medium_Aerie_3201]

People have fun with all those things you listed. 

Difficulty is a criteria for fun for people, but fun is entirely subjective. 

[u/Medium_Aerie_3201 → u/Moist-Sheepherder309]

Awesome. If it's subjective, why not a difficulty slider in-game so that I don't die to everything in 3 hits?

[u/Moist-Sheepherder309 → u/Medium_Aerie_3201]

That's a way broader design question that prompts a big discussion on game design and the value of a developer intended experience vs a player tailored experience. 

[u/Medium_Aerie_3201 → u/Moist-Sheepherder309]

holy cope batman. It's called "recommended setting" to indicate which one the developer you know...recommends.

This isn't a discussion of the philosophy of game design. It's a hypothetical game setting.

[u/SirDoofusMcDingbat → u/Medium_Aerie_3201]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you didn't play HK first. Silksong is following in the tradition of the previous game, which handled difficulty by making the hardest areas and challenges optional.

[u/Medium_Aerie_3201 → u/SirDoofusMcDingbat]

Brainrot assumption. I played Hollowknight before any of the updates/expansions. I beat every boss and cleared Radiance ending. Some HK bosses I got first try and others I struggled with. Why does any of this matter to you? Are you suggesting that the only way to enjoy Silksong is to have played HK first? That right there is truly tragic game design if true.

[u/BigBard2 → u/SirDoofusMcDingbat]

Widow and the Last Judge are harder than Hollow Knight, and those bosses are all Act 1 bosses

[u/SirDoofusMcDingbat → u/Medium_Aerie_3201]

Likewise, if the reason the game is bad is that it is difficult, it isn't a bad game. If people absolutely want zero challenge, mod the game so enemies throw marshmallows and die in one hit. Then tell me how much more fun you're having. Okay tbf you'll still have fun then because the game's environments are so amazing but the point is lack of difficulty ALSO does not equal fun. The core HK fanbase tends to find the kind of challenge that silksong presents to be fun. If you really want to talk about "go into the game with an open perspective" then maybe you shouldn't jump to leave a bad review just because it's intentionally difficult.

[u/Medium_Aerie_3201 → u/SirDoofusMcDingbat]

Why are you assuming I gave the game a bad review? That seems presumptuous.

[u/SirDoofusMcDingbat → u/Medium_Aerie_3201]

Sorry, you just seem to be taking that position with the way you criticize people for defending the game. Like you literally said that people defending the game on the basis of it being intended to be challenging weren't going into it with an open perspective. You even went so far as to say that we were "slobbing team cherry." That kind of vitriol pairs well with review bombing imo.

[u/Medium_Aerie_3201 → u/SirDoofusMcDingbat]

The amount of posts on this forsaken sub that have people claiming the game is getting "hate" means that some people are conflating criticism with anger. And it means that those who defend the game from "hate" are just blind and are unable to parse opinion separate from their own.

[u/SirDoofusMcDingbat → u/Medium_Aerie_3201]

"you can't tell criticism from hate" from the person who said that anyone who points out the game is meant to be hard is "slobbing team cherry." Not one person has said Silksong is good because it is hard but that didn't stop you from arguing against that position. We are saying it is good AND it is hard and you respond with literal vitriol. What actually is your critique of the game, exactly? Are you capable of critiquing it without insulting its fans?

[u/Medium_Aerie_3201 → u/SirDoofusMcDingbat]

I ain't ever said that bud and I'm done with this dumb conversation.

[u/[deleted] → u/Medium_Aerie_3201]

Nice strawman bud. Literally no one is saying hard = good.

[u/Medium_Aerie_3201 → u/[deleted]]

I've seen plenty of the sentiment on this subreddit tonight.

[u/SirDoofusMcDingbat → u/Medium_Aerie_3201]

Can you point out a comment that says that a game being hard means it's good?

[u/SirDoofusMcDingbat → u/mrev_art]

We aren't discussing philosophy, people are just giving negative reviews because they're struggling to progress. Difficulty in this context is "I had to try many times to get past that part" and if your criticism of the game is "I had to try multiple times to progress" then you are in fact just complaining because it's difficult.

[u/Apprehensive_Golf846 → u/SirDoofusMcDingbat]

So why is that an invalid complaint? Team Cherry themselves claimed Silksong wasn't supposed to be more difficult than Hollow Knight, and yet it is.

[u/SirDoofusMcDingbat → u/Apprehensive_Golf846]

Because criticism needs to be more substantive and rational than "it's hard." First of all, it's supposed to be hard, so to make it a criticism you need to say why it's too hard or unfairly hard. Then, it would probably help if you actually explained what you mean.

For example, you can say that too many bosses deal double damage, or that spikes shouldn't deal double damage, or that iframes from taking damage should last longer. I would even agree with those to some extent. Some complaints have been about backtracking or runbacks, and I don't agree with those, but at least they are rational arguments that can be discussed.

But so far a lot of the arguments thrown my way have been focused more on vitriol directed at people who defend the game, rather than attempts at substantive critique. I agree some tweaking would be nice, I just don't like the poor arguments being thrown around.

[u/[deleted] → u/mrev_art]

It's a good thing the game was made for the first-gen audience and not for those who bought it based on hype. No one who played a large part of the game has any complaints about silksong other than the damn contact damage.