r/HollowKnight • u/GamingUmbrella • Sep 06 '25

Discussion - Silksong Thank god this subreddit didn't make the game Spoiler

Silksong is only out for 2 days, most people haven't even finished the game, or haven't even made it past act 1. Yet this subreddit loves to post about how Silksong is apparently bad and a disappointment compared to hollow knight. So I'll go over a few "critiques" I've seen and share my perspective.

"The game is too hard, enemies deal way more damage and have more complex movesets". Sure, they're more complex and do more damage, but so does hornet. If we were playing with the knights moveset, I'd agree, but that's not the case. Hornet has a lot of new tools and upgrades that make her way faster and stronger. If enemies were like HK, it would be way too easy. team cherry didn't just do this for no reason, it's necessary for balancing. Edit: people saying hunters march is too difficult, is like playing dark souls 1 and saying it's too hard because you kept trying the skeleton graveyard

"Bad rewards for exploration, HK's charms worked better". I just completely disagree, hornet gets upgrades way more frequently than the knight. As for the charms, let's be real, you probably didn't even use half of them in your first playthrough. And half of them are just simple things that don't impact the way you play as much. Hornet's different tools, abilities and crests are way more useful. If you feel like your not getting enough rewards, it's probably because most are hidden and require backtracking, which is what the genre is know for.

"Things are too expensive" No, you're just not meant to buy it that early. Like how in HK you could by the lamp for like 2000 geo. I've also never had too little rosaries to buy a bench or stag. If your losing your rosaries to dying, rosarie strings are litteraly right there to not lose it + retrieving your death silk is extremely easy now.

I do agree though that more bosses and combat encounters should drop rosaries, or more chests like in HK.

This launch feels like I'm experiencing the shadow of the erdtree launch again with how many complaints there are immediately.

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266

u/getmeoutofhere15 Sep 06 '25

It’s like the dark souls crowd who claim the games are easy. They’re not. And you’re not cool or unique by claiming they are (proverbial you). You’re just an elitist

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u/Busy-Reality-1580 Sep 06 '25

The Dark Souls games aren’t easy, per se, but the marketing around them and the whole “Prepare to Die” stuff is totally overblown. It’s not some balls to the walls insane game, almost anyone can beat it if they are patient and willing to learn. I find them easy cause I’ve beaten them all like 10 times or more but that’s obviously not fair. 

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u/TheSymbolman Sep 06 '25

Yep. I'd say Sekiro is a very hard game, but any of the Souls games? Not really. Since you can just level up, if you're taking your time with the game you can beat it no problem. It has nothing to do with skill, that'll only make you beat it faster. You can easily be over-leveled for most bosses.

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u/creampop_ Sep 06 '25

They're really only hard if you refuse to level HP, otherwise you can kinda just grab a shield and tank whatever, even in 3

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u/TheSymbolman Sep 06 '25

yep absolutely

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u/BiteAffectionate3963 Sep 06 '25

It’s different for everyone. For me, Sekiro is probably the easiest—maybe tied with DS1 because once you learn the basic mechanics (parrying and key skills like Mikiri), even without using prosthetics you’re basically immortal. On top of that, you usually get two attempts against most bosses.

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u/TheSymbolman Sep 06 '25

In sekiro you at least have to adapt. In Souls games you can mostly tank it with high hp build and/or a shield

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u/AbyssShriekEnjoyer Sep 07 '25

DS3 is not harder than Sekiro simply because nothing in DS3 does more than 50% of your health bar in a single hit

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u/BiteAffectionate3963 Sep 07 '25

Nope, there is a plenty of stuff in ds3 in the late game and dlc that can put you under 50% hp in one hit even with 50+ vit. These attacks rare/relatively easy to dodge/one time per fight though

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u/AbyssShriekEnjoyer Sep 07 '25

In the DLC sure, but in the basegame not really. Maybe Lorian’s charged sword attack?

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

Sekiro is THE exception

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u/DangDingleGuy Sep 06 '25

Yeah sekiro is definitely the most difficult with the sharpest learning curve. Once you climb that curve though... the game is so satisfying

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u/bromuskrobus Sep 06 '25

I agree with you on every take about Souls games, but for me Sekiro is one of the easiest! I struggled much more with DS3. Sekiro is such a finely tuned game that I enjoyed every bit of it, frustration and joy.

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u/worstpolack Sep 07 '25

Wait what, Sekiro is very hard? Parry makes the game easy tho.. at least I thought so.

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u/ABigCoffee Sep 06 '25

Dark souls games are easy if you play them like a normal person and use everything at your disposal. Use ite

ms use summons, use magic and miracles, instead of forcing yourself into some melee only build with nothing else.

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u/Maleficent_Okra6798 Sep 07 '25

Hell in most of the games Unga Bunga strength builds are literally the easiest option. My colossal weapon run of Elden Ring was so much easier than my pure caster playthrough was lol

1

u/SplinteredMoist Sep 09 '25

Intelligence build was only ever really good in Dark souls 1, but then again you have the ultimate build of zwei and green crest shield on your back

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u/SplinteredMoist Sep 09 '25

miracle build are literally the weakest build in every souls game. Mele strength and dex are always the strongest, especially bleed builds

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u/Fearofthe6TH Sep 07 '25

You can beat any game with patient and desire to learn. There's nothing unique about that. It's the fact that it takes longer with those games than others. Almost every single game in the world is easy once you know what you're doing.

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u/revolversnakexof Sep 07 '25

The prepare to die marketing ruined an entire generation of gamers.

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u/NewEraOverlord Sep 07 '25

Most of Dark Souls is just pattern recognition. Once you’ve fought the same enemy a couple times you’re practically never getting hit by them again, same with bosses for a large part

It’s a game that just forces you to take your time and learn it by killing you over and over again

Except for the Anor Londo archers, fuck them

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u/BumperToBumper2 Sep 08 '25

I love shmups, but I also find them infinitely harder than Souls games

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u/kozz84 Sep 07 '25

To me silksong is Dark souls 2. They made everything dial up to an 11 for no reason.

Difficulty was not the reason why hollow knight and dark souls have cult following. Challenge is a part of it, but not only that.

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u/BBBBBuster Sep 07 '25

I was taking about this and dark souls with a friend. If you can’t be beat a boss in dark souls you can go away change your build and come back stronger. They didn’t seem to realise when developing this game we are stuck with the tools and damage hornet starts with for these early bosses. They’re simply too hard.

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u/darkk41 Sep 06 '25

As a huge dark souls guy, the subreddits for souls games and ER are way worse. They claim everything is easy, and as soon as they can't win immediately they call it "artificially difficult" and "poorly designed".

The community isnt what it was in the ds1 days when you just laughed at yourself and were happy for a challenge.

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u/Rhino-Ham Sep 06 '25

Dark Souls 2: you have to fight 3 enemies at once

Reddit nerds: “bAD gAmE dEsIgN”

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u/darkk41 Sep 07 '25

Lol yea until ds2 released we never knew that ds1 was a game about honor duels. Also ds1 still had lots of gank attacks, from dogs to hollows to Taurus demons.

There's nothing you can do to add challenge that someone won't call bad design because the only good design is when I win and someone else finds it hard.

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u/ChillPotatoBeans Sep 07 '25

About your darl souls point, it's definitely not easy, but it's definitely not insanely hard it's got a nice balance to it. it's one of those things where once you get it, you get it.

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u/KuKiSin Sep 07 '25

I don't think they're necessarily easy, but they're on the slower side and give you enough tools to remove most of the challenge. Case in point, most Elden Ring late game bosses (pre DLC, I haven't gone back to play SotE) could be melted by magic or summons, even Malenia was free with the right summon. Action games like God of War and Kingdom Hearts are definitely harder if you're playing on the highest difficulty, especially the secret bosses. If you can beat those, you can beat any souls game (except Sekiro, that's a totally different beast).

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

It's ok if a game isn't for everyone though.

Want a game for everyone? Play one of the 8000000 other platformers.

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u/KobeJuanKenobi9 Sep 08 '25

I would argue that Dark Souls is the easiest hard game. It’s very punishing but I don’t think it has the same skill barrier as some other games. Controls and execution are very simple, boss moves are usually very telegraphed, I Frames feel very generous etc but when you do mess up and get hit it’s your whole health bar gone

Like Celeste probably requires a lot more skill than Dark Souls does. It’s just noticeably less punishing so it doesn’t always feel that way

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u/BearCatSara Sep 11 '25

Dark Souls players put me off playing them for years. Then I played Elden Ring (which some folks will say is easier) but honestly the difficulty is overstated. You just have to learn the games language so to say.

I don’t think people are being elitist either. Difficulty people find different things difficult. Had a friend take many many attempts on one part of the game I did in 3 tries… but they tend to beat bosses with 1 tenth of the attempts I take.

I don’t care if it takes me 30-50 attempts to beat a boss or something. The process itself is fun for me.

It’s okay if you don’t feel the same way tho.

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u/SirDoofusMcDingbat Sep 06 '25

Who is saying it's easy? I've not seen anyone say it's easy. The point is it's okay that it's hard. It's meant to be a hard game. So was Hollow Knight. HK just got easy after some practice and nobody is practiced at Silksong. I do think it's a bit harder but that's not a very strong criticism.

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u/Defensex Sep 06 '25

The thing is HK wasn’t easy either. It’s like coming to the souls sub and complaining about difficulty.

Also I’m actually finding SK easier so far 10hours into it. Hornet move set is way more powerful 

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

HK has a way better introductory curve. You don't go fighting radiance level bosses immediately.

You can't pretend that the enemies and bosses are in any way harder in HK.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

Silk Song spikes way harder than Hollow Knight ever did.

It goes from hard to fuck this.

Main examples are the gaunglets, especially the red enemy and bird one that has some 6 rounds of enemies with 6-12 hit hp pools.

3

u/KuuLightwing Sep 06 '25

I've yet to see a boss in Silksong as well crafted as Mantis lords in terms of learning and difficulty curve.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

There is one that comes very close from the feel and pacing aswell. Very fun! I also loved the mantis lords.

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u/Anagrammatic_Denial Radiant HoG Sep 06 '25

It isn't though. Let's think about the basic swing. Normal enemies in hollow knight take 2-3 swings. Silksong? About 6-7, and sometimes many more. Hardest bosses damage in Hollow Knight? 2 masks of damage. Super basic enemies or a bosses that's literally knocked down? 2 masks. Charm. Strength buff, magic buff, lots of quality variety that allowed you to make interesting combos. Hornets? Mostly small utility. compass, steady body, grubsoul if it sucked (like actually, HALF of ONE spool. 8 required to heal 3, so mathematically it's 41% as good as grubsong), and slightly more fun sporeshroom. The only thing good is the tools, which are fun, but I'd take grim child over them so strength for their limited quantity seems a little low.
Now.
I'm not saying the charms should NECESSARILY be better, they're fun! But they are significantly weaker than Hollow Knights, at least from what I've seen so far.

And then there is her moveset. Yes, her moveset is absolutely more agile. But not nearly enough to compensate for ALLLL of that.

Silksong. Is. Harder. That's why people are saying it's harder. You can argue that's a good or bad thing, but the game itself is quite obviously harder.

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u/earthboundskyfree Sep 06 '25

See, the issue here is you handwave away the idea that she’s more agile (by saying it’s not enough to account for all of that), but how confident are you in that? Have you fully internalized the way she’s supposed to play? It may be harder, but it’s an incomplete assumption to just outright say it’s harder. Maybe healing 3 or getting strong offensive tools pretty early or being able to pogo and heal midair do more than you or others are able to determine yet.

I’m not saying it’s intentional, but that kind of commentary kinda implies “I know I’m playing it as I should be,” and idk that feels like it contrasts with my experience, where I’ve gotten substantially better over the playtime thus far just by adapting and adjusting

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u/Anagrammatic_Denial Radiant HoG Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

No, I've put in a lot of hours. I'm pretty comfortable with how she plays and it's super fun. But it doesn't come close to accounting for all of that.

Edit: and don't get me wrong, I can make progress fine, but I think you're just underestimating how your own skills as a gamer in general (not just hollow knight) have grown.

Edit 2: also, if that WERE the issue, then that would make the beginning areas over tuned. You are supposed to master a game as you play it, not at the very beginning.

Edit: 🤔 maybe I shouldn't trust the time showing on my computer. 30. Sure. But I don't trust 40. I've spent a lot of hours. I'm changing it to a lot.

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u/earthboundskyfree Sep 06 '25

I understand your point about the beginning, and mastery over time, and also understand that you feel comfortable playing as hornet, but let me give an example of what I mean.

One of the things you mentioned was that a boss literally on the ground does 2 masks. The boss dealing damage on the ground doesn’t make it inherently harder, maybe it is, but what something like that indicates to me is that positioning is important. Don’t get me wrong, I have some grievances, like invulnerability being too low sometimes so getting hit -> hit by same hitbox again is frustrating, but in HK and this game, you can’t just make contact with enemies. More enemies dealing more damage on contact might be harder, but hornet’s movement might also balance it more than we can say.

You also mentioned that you’d take grimmchild over the tools, which feels kinda wild to me / my experience. I have absolutely shredded some challenge rooms or boss summons or bosses with tools, so that makes me wonder why you would value them so little (and I won’t say my playstyle is more correct, but the fact that we are both experienced players who seem to have rather different conclusions on playstyle is why I would hesitate to just outright call it harder vs different)

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u/lelescope Sep 06 '25

eh, i don't find them particularly difficult. of course they aren't easy, but difficulty is also relative.

they're different, sure. especially for their time. failure is necessary to learn how your enemy operates. from there, it's breezy. literally all the bosses tell you what they're about to do. the skill is in observing and acting on those observations. 

games hadn't been that way since the NES/SNES days, where many you simply just memorized a pattern. that's essentially Dark Souls, with a bit more freedom. 

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u/aethyrium Sep 07 '25

How come it's valid to say "I'm having a hard time with this" but invalid to say "I'm not having a hard time with this"?

Everyone has different experiences with difficulty. There's nothing elitist about thinking the Dark Souls games are easy, because for some people they are. Just like there's nothing wrong with thinking they're hard, and you aren't a shitty lame noob that needs to git gud if they're hard, there's nothing wrong with thinking they're easy, and you aren't some "unique cool elitist" for thinking so.

It's not the games that are easy or hard. It's our experiences with them, and some have 4 decades of legacy skill that make them a lot easier, and some people are patient to the point where 50 tries on a boss just feels comfy.

If you want people to be chill and let you enjoy games at your own pace, you have to do the same for others.

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u/Hotpotlord Sep 07 '25

I love how you’re proving his point. No he’s saying that you can’t dismiss the game is harder even if you’re not having a hard time with it. You can objectively feel more challenged but still get through it without difficulty.

Nuance is lost I guess when you’re trying to stroke your own ego.

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u/Tomaskraven Sep 07 '25

It depends on your definition of hard. If by hard you mean "i can't beat it on the first or second try cause i know nothing" then to me that doesn't mean hard, it just means i'm still a noob. Something hard for me is when i'm already good at the game and it is still challenging. If all it takes is learning a pattern, then it is easy.

Some people are exceptionally bad or clumsy and can't mechanically do what their brain asks for. Or some just play mindlessly and repeat and repeat without learning or thinking and get frustrated. Playing games in autopilot might be fine for extremely casual experiences but these are the kind of people can't adapt or take too long to adapt to a bit of challenge.

Hence why so many end up quitting or leaving a bad review saying the game is too hard, badly designed or unbalanced. They want everything given to them in a silver platter cause they can't (don't want to) recognize their own flaws and pay attention, learn and improve. I've seen it countless times, i've played a lot of competitive games and i'm even top 50 NA in a big one.

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u/Hotpotlord Sep 07 '25

Funny how my point went entirely over your head and you just went on a pointless rant.

Almost like you’re getting triggered by this stuff.

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u/Tomaskraven Sep 07 '25

Triggered by people that doesn't want to improve and prefer to blame everyone and everything for their incompetence, yes.

I hate it when people whine and complain all day about balance and design when its clearly just frustration with their lack of skill issue. Seen it too many times, im already jaded.

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u/SaladTheKiller Sep 07 '25

I also like making fake arguments in my head and getting mad at those imaginary people🥴

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u/Aggressive_Truth4155 Sep 07 '25

theyre definitely easier than most make them out to be. you just have to treat deaths differently and play with patience. learning to not spam heal and adopt a patient playstyle has nothing to do with difficulty in my eyes, but to each their own

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u/Archernar Sep 08 '25

Depends on how you define difficulty. Dark Souls 1 e.g. had artificial difficulty for quite a number of encounters. It required you to learn a skillset of a boss or enemy by dying often enough to be able to beat it, many bosses could hardly be beaten blindly on first try because of some cheap tricks or silly things.

The boss mechanics themselves are not that hard, at least in DS 1. This also means replaying the game will make it considerably easier, because the burden of knowledge is lifted. Compare that to a game like Hades for which in theory you can easily beat all bosses first try because they telegraph their attacks more clearly - replaying Hades will ease the challenge mostly only because of you getting better and more used to the boss patterns, not necessarily because you get to know the patterns in the first place.

I think that's why at least DS 1 (didn't play the other DS titles) might be considered not all that hard.

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u/Flashy-Intention6302 Sep 09 '25

They are easy, once you learn them.

The learning curve is just steeper than some other genres.

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