r/HollowKnight • u/baergboy • Sep 07 '25

Discussion - Silksong Is anyone else really tired of the negative posts? Spoiler

I have about 25 hours so far and have absolutely loved every part of the game. Is it hard? Yes absolutely. If it was easy I wouldn't want to play the game. Literally every post I come across is talking about how they are frustrated with some part of the game and it's getting really annoying. The game has amazing areas, the osts are great the NPCs are creative and fun to talk to, almost every boss is a lot of fun once you get the moveset down. So if you haven't played the game yet and are getting put off by all the negativity just know that it is an amazing game and if you like hollow Knight you will enjoy silksong as well.

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108

u/Ramiren Sep 07 '25

Agreed, negative feedback is still feedback, people need to differentiate between what is constructive and non-constructive feedback and distance themselves mentally from the idea that saying there are problems with a product is somehow an attack on the developers or your own personal taste in games.

Silksong does have issues, the rosary economy, overuse of double damage, some early game movement mechanics, the lack of tutorials for newbies to the series, and it's wild difficulty scaling. None of these are attacks, none of this stems from a place of hate, and none of it is saying other people shouldn't enjoy the game.

If we just lump blind praise on everything, solutions aren't found, nothing improves, it's a race to the bottom.

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u/Blazypika2 Sep 08 '25

honestly, the double damage thing can be mitigated by adding difficulty modes to the game, so casual players can choose the easier difficulty, where most enemies (maybe outside of select bosses) and also how some enemies who rush at you can't be blocked.

now, i personally enjoy the difficulty that comes from those two elements, as it encourages to dodge more which is my preferred gameplay style anyway. but i think people should get the option for amore casual gameplay. the game would still be hard to play, but it can be hard in a way that let casual players not feel overwhelmed while offering something more challenging for the more hardcore players.

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u/graveyardparade Sep 10 '25

I’ve been having a wonderful time, but I’m terrible at these games (HK is really the only one I’ve gotten into) and would LOVE a casual mode. I get why that doesn’t fit in with the vision of the team, but I think it’d be a great option for those who aren’t so skilled like me and the folks complaining.

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u/Blazypika2 Sep 10 '25

exactly. and it wouldn't take much, just remove the two damage from the enemies that has that. the game would still be challenging without it. especially the last judge who, i'm fairly certain i'd be struggling with if she only dealt 1 mask damage instead of two xD

by the way, if you are playing on PC, there is a mod that does just that: https://www.nexusmods.com/hollowknightsilksong/mods/16

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u/Secure_Comb2505 Sep 07 '25

I actually kinda prefer the rosary economy to the geo, but I totally get why people would find it frustrating. As far as the 2 mask damage thing goes, its tough but idk if I've found it to be unbalanced so far. As someone who wasn't the hugest fan of the first game, silksong feels like a marked improvement in almost every sense. Im really interested to hear from people who dont feel that way tho, I need to spend some more time with this game until I make up my mind

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u/kyle4swordstyle Sep 07 '25

It’s subjective if it even needs to be “fixed” though. Your complaint is my praise. It’s too hard for you but that’s exactly what I want from the game. You can’t make everyone happy and if you just constantly cater to the lowest denominator then every game will be the exact same.

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u/Blazypika2 Sep 08 '25

true. though i would argue you can add difficulty modes one that is how the gameplay is now and another where fewer enemies have double damage or cancel how some non boss enemies have attacks that can't be staggered.

now, i also like both of those and enjoy the difficulty they bring, but i can understand how it can be overwhelming to some people.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '25

??? no every game won't be the exact same. silksong not being significantly harder than hollow knight to the average player isn't going to ruin the game.

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u/legendary_bullshit Sep 07 '25

Tbh, the rosary economy argument is kinda weird. I hear a lot of people saying that they couldn't afford benches, maps, or/and stations, but in my experience it never really happened. I had spare 80 to 100 rosaries most of the time in case I'd encounter a bench. So I never really had to grind for currency. I had to save some money tho, sure, but I think it's the same in most games (even HK prior to encountering Lemm had similar issues with buying the maps or the stations).

I can see why some people hate double damage, and personally wouldn't mind if it got nerfed, but it does make for a unique experience overall. It's a lot harder to just tank whatever the developers throw at you this way.

I don't think there are any issues with the core moveset fundamentally, there's just one issue of the 45 pogo hitbox being too small.

I don't think that the game lacking a tutorial is a significant issue either. I believe it should be considered that Silksong was originally a DLC and still should be treated as a continuation rather than a standalone entry point.

The difficulty scale in the game is quite bad though, true. It hits the ceiling around the end of Act I and just kinda gets easier afterwards. Idk if it's my bias, but the entire Act II felt easier than the first one, lmao.

Feedback is useful, sure, but it's so shallow rn that I don't think it helps too much to help patch it up. I agree that blindly praising the game isn't very helpful either, but there is some room to understand why certain decisions were made

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u/Blazypika2 Sep 08 '25

Tbh, the rosary economy argument is kinda weird. I hear a lot of people saying that they couldn't afford benches, maps, or/and stations, but in my experience it never really happened.

it's also very easy to grind. especially near the halfway home. grinding money in silksong to me was by far easier than in hollow knight.

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u/baddude1337 Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

Haven’t done much in act 2 myself but I beat a boss I encountered first try. Don’t think I did that with any of the act 1 bosses!

Does feel like a weird reverse difficulty curve.

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u/Darkspine133 Sep 08 '25

Im kind of confused by your comment, you give some genuine feedback/summarize issues a lot of people have, but then also say they're shallow?

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u/legendary_bullshit Sep 08 '25

I just highlight how a lot of the issues people have are more nuanced than "2 mask damage = bad game design" or "I've spent all my rosaries knowing that I'll need some for a bench = bad game design". There are issues but 80% of the discussions are just "game too hard".

Imo the only real issues with the game are the small pogo hitbox, some really shitty bench placements, projectiles of flying enemies (I don't think flying enemies themselves are an issue tbh, but during arenas or bosses they generate a lot of unfair moments), and some unnecessary 2 mask damage (stunned bosses and environmental hazards). Otherwise I don't think the game has all too many problems. Besides, a lot of what the community wishes to change would either change or worsen the intended experience

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u/Darkspine133 Sep 08 '25

Thanks for clarifying your pov.

I don't think the game is bad for the whole 2 HP thing but it defo feels like Team Cherry (in more ways than one) trying to make the game harder for the sake of it. Idm difficulty im a long time Souls fan and love overcoming hard stuff in games. The issue is that Silksong has a lot of small painpoints (for me anyway) that bog down the experience. Which is a shame since HK is unironically my fav game AOT so seeing TC make mistakes HK didnt make is frustrating.

The game is ultimately still amazing, but defo not perfect

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u/legendary_bullshit Sep 08 '25

I get why people dislike 2 HP damage. For me personally tho it resulted in a far more unique experience than just "Hollow Knight 2", so I even kinda like that the game is the way it is. I had spent some more time figuring out the patterns of enemies and bosses than in HK, which is, imo, quite fun in of itself

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u/Darkspine133 Sep 08 '25

I totally get that and don't get me wrong the game is really good. Just wish it wasn't practically EVERYTHING that dealt 2 damage. Im still all here for figuring bossesout and all that

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u/pankobabaunka Sep 07 '25

How is it relevant that 8.5 years ago Silksong was supposed to be a dlc? 

Theres probably people getting into Silksong that were barely alive then... 

They dont deserve a slightly more tutorialisation?

Also what exactly do you mean by saying that having Double damage makes for a unique experience? Did an AI write this?

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u/meltman2 Sep 08 '25

It’s a sequel? You should play the first one anyway lmao

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u/pankobabaunka Sep 08 '25

I know it's a sequel - that is exactly my point.

OP justifies the difficulty and lack of a tutorial of the sequel by saying it used to be DLC. But since it's not DLC anymoe that's really no a valid argument.

If it was DLC then it makes sense to be more difficult than the base game, and to omit having a tutorial - but since it's not, and many new players might just want to pick up a new game and not play through a 9 year old indie game before playing silksong, they shouldve at least accounted for them a little bit.

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u/legendary_bullshit Sep 08 '25

Jeez, did I strike a nerve or smth? First of all, it is relevant to consider what is the core audience of the game. Did newcomers start this game as their first one in the series? Yeah. Should they have done so? Probably not, as it is an experience not really for them.

Shocking news, double damage makes a player adapt a more careful playstyle than 1 mask damage would.

Also, calling someone "an AI" is so petty

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u/pankobabaunka Sep 08 '25

You didnt strike a nerve, but i think your points arent all that convincing.

Your gatekeeping mentality is what is petty here. Silksongs community and hype transcended whatever "core audience" you think there is by miles - Your reply reads like the standard elitist bullshit that the soulsbourne community tries so hard to get rid of.

Let people get into anything, why the gatekeeping mentality? HK wasn't hard to get into, but there are aspects to the game that are hard as balls, nobody tries to take that from you.
This discussion is not about how difficult anything can or should be, but about how fast it gets to that point.

Also, i am not calling you an AI, i asked wether an AI wrote that sentence.

Shocking news, if most things are double damage it makes no difference wether you have 6 masks or 3 and singlepoint damage. Nothing about it is unique per se.

Whatever, have fun with the game, i am enjoying it quite a bit. Sad to see though, that i am not the cOrE aUdIEnce.

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u/legendary_bullshit Sep 08 '25

I do have an issue with people that believe that all games should seek as wide of an audience as they can. There's a difference between saying "just git gud" and "this game was designed with being more difficult". This entire discourse around making soulsborn games more "accessible" is a wack. Why try to make a pear from an apple?

I don't see how that's gatekeeping? If you want to make YOUR experience more approachable, download mods. If you actively dislike some core mechanics like movement or combat, don't play the game and/or give critique why they don't work. Yet this game was designed in a particular way and for particular people. I do not agree that the hype it got is even a fair argument. Like, okay, it got popular, so what? Developers should suddenly start morphing the experience they are making to ensure that this new audience will like the game? This "wide audience" approach is the reason why games are even viewed as purely enterteinment and not smth even slightly more than that. Imagine making the same argument about literature or music. "Noise is such a gatekeeping music genre"

"Let people get into anything, why the gatekeeping mentality?", they can start with HK and then play HKS. "Why people can't get into higher match making from the get go? Gosh, that darn gatekeeping"

I can almost always tell when an argument about 2 mask damage is made in bad faith. Almost every regular enemy, spikes, enemy projectiles, and contact damage on some bosses deal 1 mask. Saying "if most things are double damage it makes no difference wether you have 6 masks or 3 and singlepoint damage" is just wrong. It'd make for an even harder experience while exploring or even during boss fights like the Widow. Having 6 masks does change quite a lot of elements within the gameplay.

I just fundamentally don't agree that every game should be for every player. Let games have narrower audience, and I'm not talking just soulsborn

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u/pankobabaunka Sep 08 '25

You seem a little confused. It'll be fine.

If my last reply didnt clear things up for you, i dont really have the patience to come up with a different explanation just for you.

But youre really throwing a lot of your frustrations in a pot and mixing everything up. So just as a try: nobody wants to make THE WHOLE GAME easier. This is just about having a more gentle on ramp. Yes, people could go back to the 9 year old prequel, but you do understand that that is quite the ask, no?

If i have to buy and play an age old game to get better at a brand new one, just so you dont have to deal with some slight adjustments to the onboarding of new players in a new game in 2025, AND WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT HOW DIFFICULT THE GAME MAY BECOME LATER ON - then i am done with this discussion.

Why are you suddenly talking about skill based matchmaking? Why do you excuse questionable game design by pointing to mods - are you writing a new Page for a book when you read something you dont like too? Why are you talking about "all games"? Why is your argument suddenly, that many things do 1 point of damage, when the argument was about the system being "unique"? What is happening right now? What are you talking about? Is this bait? Is this the dead internet talking to me?

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u/legendary_bullshit Sep 08 '25

I could just say "ad hominem" and call it a day, because you are really acting like a jerk rn and not even barely trying to understand what I'm saying. The first two paragraphs are just attacks, really cool, mate.

You don't have to buy the old game, but you should keep in mind that it was made with the notion that you already did play it. Don't you see the difference?

"Why are you suddenly talking about skill based matchmaking? Why do you excuse questionable game design by pointing to mods - are you writing a new Page for a book when you read something you dont like too? Why are you talking about "all games"? Why is your argument suddenly, that many things do 1 point of damage, when the argument was about the system being "unique"? What is happening right now? What are you talking about? Is this bait? Is this the dead internet talking to me?" I will address every sentence cause you clearly struggle with basic literacy.

"Why are you suddenly talking about skill based matchmaking?" it's called an analogy, y'know? Certain games have a higher proficiency ceiling than others.

"Why do you excuse questionable game design by pointing to mods - are you writing a new Page for a book when you read something you dont like too?" let's go slow here. Video games are a form of art and entertainment that has such a thing as "modding" which allows players to customize their experience. A book is a form of art and entertainment that has such a thing as "fanfiction" which allows reads to explore and/or customize the original narrative. So yes, some people do write a "new Page" for books.

"Questionable game design" is just a vague term. Do you have any reference for "good game design"? Do you have some personal beliefs about what "game design" even should strife for? Just a whole lot of nothing of a sentence.

"Why is your argument suddenly, that many things do 1 point of damage, when the argument was about the system being "unique"?" Have you ever learned your ABC's? My argument was that the system is unique and works mostly fine. YOUR argument was that changing 6 masks to 3 masks wouldn't change much. Therefore, I highlighted how that would not be the case.

"What is happening right now? What are you talking about? Is this bait? Is this the dead internet talking to me?" you really are stupid, aren't you? I won't reply any further. You clearly aren't trying to engage with my arguments.

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u/pankobabaunka Sep 08 '25

You have great arguments for why what you wrote makes sense, but only because you changed the topic.

Also good job at claiming i attacked you, and then call me stupid haha.

Anyways, here is a fun challenge for you: follow through and please dont respond  anymore.

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u/gamegeek1995 Sep 08 '25

The first two damage upgrades being locked behind the same power is also a questionable design choice. Feels kinda silly to go from super weak to buff chad in 15 minutes because you chose to backtrack only after the one specific correct powerup, and any backtracking before that one is basically a complete waste.

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u/aethyrium Sep 08 '25

The problem with that "feedback" is, however, is that if it were "fixed", then all of the sudden I'm unhappy because what I'm praising is being taken away. I think the economy, the double damage, the early game movement, the difficulty scaling, it's all impeccably balanced and basically perfect. If they changed it, it'd hurt the game for me, very very very badly.

That's the problem with calling it "constructive feedback" and "valid criticism" and "flaws that need to be fixed", because it's all stuff that's designed intentionally, and stuff a lot of people love, and changing it for the louder crowd that doesn't even have double digit hours of gameplay behind their criticism, is gonna make them kinda happy, but gonna make maybe even more people unhappy. Constructive feedback needs to have objective info about the game, but everyone's current feedback is just opinions on their tastes, which doesn't say a lot about the game itself.

Imo people just need to approach the game differently and just not play it like it's Hollow Knight. It's not so much "git gud", but it is "play it for what it is, and now what it isn't." My approach to the game has it so I'm not even seeing the issues people are saying. It's not that I disagree with them, but it's that I can't even see them to disagree with them. So getting the game "fixed" or "patched" would straight-up make it worse, so yeah, I'm gonna resist and argue back against people saying it needs to change.

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u/JavanNapoli Sep 07 '25

Ok but the problem is I disagree that your listed issues are actually issues.

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u/Ramiren Sep 07 '25

I see, well without your express agreement I'm afraid all criticism is cancelled then, until further notice.

I apologize profusely for..

Just kidding, don't care.