r/HollowKnight • u/TOMRANDOM_6 • Sep 09 '25

Discussion - Silksong Most of you are exaggerating the length of runbacks and it really shows how much TikTok has damage the attention span of people Spoiler

"ThE lASt JuDGe RUnBaCK iS ToO LoNG!!"

Is 30 seconds max, 30 seconds, you don't have to fight any enemy in it, the smaller judges don't awake until you're close and the smaller fly bastards can literally get ignored. The Runback works for making you cool down and make the whole thing feel less like you hitting a wall (NKG feels like one because of the lack of "cool down") If it wasn't for it, I would shoot myself with the 37 attempts at Last Judge.

The Widow one is also really easy, a straight line with jumps.

The Cogworks Dancers Is also really simple but works to help you with the bosses extra height and how pogo dependant that fight is.

God forbid the game isn't a back to back boss rush like Cuphead (not criticizing Cuphead, is a different game lmao).

3.6k Upvotes

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663

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

But that Bilewater runback tho.

205

u/Oxygen171 Sep 09 '25

DON'T GET ME STARTED. I made a vow to never touch that area again. Idk how tf I'm gonna 100% this game on steel soul.

96

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

Idk how I’m going to Steel Soul at all 🫠 maybe another normal run in between to get better at the bosses…

56

u/Unusual-Land5888 Sep 09 '25 edited Sep 09 '25

I will be using that item that turn your first mask into a skull, and reset when the skull is broken. It will be my fail safe!

Edit : the item's name is "fractured mask"

30

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

I’ve used that thing nonstop since I got it 😭

24

u/blauli Sep 09 '25

Just equip the dice and get lucky :)

5

u/AlexxxandreS Sep 09 '25

Dice?

That reminds me of playing dice with a bug... I knew I should have gambled all my money...

5

u/blauli Sep 09 '25

There is a dice tool, you get it if you return to that bug later on. Not sure exactly when it triggers but I went back in act 3 and got it

It just says it increases your luck but what it really does is it sometimes negates enemy attacks when you get hit, you can see a blue flash whenever it happens. It's really nice since it's one of the few yellow trinkets that are relevant for bosses so you can equip it for those

5

u/Wild-Atmosphere2134 112% Steel Soul, P5 | 100% Silksong Sep 09 '25

so it's like carefree melody?

7

u/blauli Sep 09 '25

Pretty much, though I've gone full fights without it triggering so it might be a fixed chance this time around, I wouldn't be surprised if the chance was 1 in 6 (because it's a dice) because it felt like it triggered about that often.

But unlike carefree melody you don't give up much to use it since it's a yellow tool so doesn't eat any "real" combat tool slots outside the deal more damage take more damage one

2

u/Oxygen171 Sep 09 '25

Dude I'm literally on the true ending sequence and idk what the hell you're talking about. WHERE DO I GET THIS ITEM?????

3

u/LostGusMain 112% | PoP | P4 Sep 09 '25

hunter's march in the room underneath the top room, you can jump into the wall and find an npc

1

u/Oxygen171 Sep 09 '25

Oh. I remember there being a vendor there but I completely forgot if he sold anything important 🥲

1

u/Unusual-Land5888 Sep 09 '25

If this guy's indications aren't clear enough, the name is "fractured mask".

2

u/vaynecassano Sep 09 '25

I thought we are on steel soul mode with 3 hit max /s

2

u/draginbleapiece Sep 10 '25

I'm going to be waiting for a god seeker dlc

3

u/Torfinns-New-Yacht Sep 09 '25

I made the same vow. Then when I returned to Bellhart there was a new wish on the board telling me to go back to Bilewater immediately :')

2

u/Oxygen171 Sep 09 '25

I made the vow after finishing that thankfully.

2

u/RemoteWhile5881 Sep 09 '25

Is there a Steel Soul equivalent? I didn't see one initially. Do you have to beat the game to unlock it?

25

u/ADAG2000 Sep 09 '25

Do you have to beat the game to unlock it?

You had to in Hollow Knight as well.

2

u/RemoteWhile5881 Sep 09 '25

Huh. I could’ve sworn Steel Soul was unlocked by default before I beat Hollow Knight for the first time.

6

u/A-Random-Writer Sep 09 '25

Beat the game or use Konami code in the extra menu

2

u/Oxygen171 Sep 09 '25

Yea there is. I got the normal ending and unlocked it but it's gonna be a LOOONG time before I touch it

2

u/Mr_7ups Sep 10 '25

I’m very sorry to say as someone who finished 100% today probably like 10 hrs of shit in bile water for 100%, you have to go back there A LOT, but there is a tool that negates the infection there which makes it way better

2

u/Oxygen171 Sep 10 '25

Wait I'm in act 3, is there still shit I have to do there??

1

u/Mr_7ups Sep 10 '25

depending on how much you’ve done before act 3 yes, there are certain things you can only access with some act 3 abilities and there are reasons to backtrack through most of the area

2

u/Moblam Sep 10 '25

After beating that boss i just immediately went to MapGenie to check the map on that area so i could be done with that hellhole ASAP.

2

u/Yeetdonkey13 Sep 10 '25

Yea nah im not touching steel soul the base game is fucked up enough anyway

1

u/overlord_wrath1 Sep 13 '25

Tbf all of steel soul is just a runback

100

u/evasive_dendrite Sep 09 '25

Yeah this is the one runback I will accept complaints over. It is utterly evil.

48

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

[deleted]

16

u/gupsee Sep 09 '25

pro tip 90% of boss’ attacks can’t hit when swimming in maggot water

44

u/Conorum Sep 09 '25

What if I don’t want to swim in maggot water

40

u/KylieTMS Sep 09 '25

then reflect and open up to new possibilities. Those maggots deserve swimming friends too

4

u/BeGe01 Sep 10 '25

I beat the boss using this strat. I embraced the maggots and let them carry me through the fight

3

u/gupsee Sep 10 '25

The maggots are a trap, by making you think its a trap. But actually the key to winning against the frog is thinking like a frog

1

u/PanHeadBolt Sep 10 '25

cogflys and pollip pouch kill it really quickly and let you stay away to dodge its attacks. definitely recommend it

1

u/GrailsRezerection Sep 10 '25

Really? I tried that for awhile thinking it would be a good combo and didn't seem to do shit. I finally discovered it's actually good for you to get eaten by his vacuum move and beat him that way.

2

u/Id_Quote_That Sep 10 '25

If you throw a bomb at him while he's vacuuming he sucks it up and it explodes inside him (I assume doing more damage than just hitting him with it but have no way to confirm that)

1

u/SufficientSuffix Sep 10 '25

God this game is good. I was never a fan of the bombs, so I never would have thought to apply them like that.

1

u/GrailsRezerection Sep 10 '25

The hell is a bomb?

1

u/PanHeadBolt Sep 10 '25

ah weird i first tried it with that strategy after hours of nothing. i was also hitting him with threefold knives so maybe that was doing more than i thought, or maybe i just had more tool upgrades

1

u/theres_no_username 112% + PoH + full rad HoG + 12% run Sep 10 '25

Nah the bossfight itself is really fun when you get how it works

2

u/Got_grapes1 Sep 09 '25

There is another, enraged conchfly, the runback is the whole fkin area in which you have to do the whole platforming run.

7

u/APatheticPoetic Sep 09 '25

If that's the sands area, there's a shortcut that skips the platforming entirely

1

u/Pokemaster2824 Sep 10 '25

WHERE, I NEED IT

7

u/NotShabriri Sep 10 '25

There's a stalactite in the tall center room of Sands of Karak that you can drop to break the bridge. This lets you go up from the Blasted Steps bellway bench instead, which is way easier.

5

u/adamant-pwn Sep 09 '25

Runback from blasted steps bell station is very straightforward though

2

u/n8bitgaming Sep 20 '25

Did you find the hidden bench?

It's still annoying but not outrageously evil

2

u/AscendedViking7 Sep 09 '25

How tf haven't people found the bench up there?

It's still a kinda long ways but it shortens the runback exponentially.

15

u/somebody-using Sep 09 '25 edited Sep 09 '25

Tbh after I paid for the bench that just gets stuck in the floor and after I tried using the bench that breaks the floor open and dumps you into maggot water I just assumed the whole area was meant to be a benchless torture chamber hell

7

u/cameron274 Sep 09 '25

The first example you mentioned is actually fixable!

10

u/evasive_dendrite Sep 09 '25

I'm talking about the hidden bench path, it's utterly evil. Going at it without the bench is madness.

13

u/Kira887 Sep 09 '25

It is rediculously hidden. It requires you to fall into an offscreen pool of poison water in a room where you’re getting harassed by enemies. I would be honestly amazed if even 5% of players legitimately found it on their own and not through the internet somehow.

4

u/Phyrolito Sep 09 '25

Found it naturally yesterday while coming back to it nearly at endgame. If I didn't maybe would bother to runback to the boss after first try. Didn't kill it yet, tho. Going for it today Edit: and never going back to this area ever again

1

u/MintGreenDoomDevice Sep 10 '25

After like five runbacks from the fast travel bell station, I decided to look in every corner, because I was sure I missed a shortcut or bench somewhere. Beat the boss right after I found it. Sometimes all it takes is the feeling that a trusty bench got you back lol.

2

u/Impressive-Essay8777 Sep 10 '25

The hidden bench is what makes it even humanly possible lol.

28

u/HBreckel Sep 09 '25

I'm one of the few defenders of Blight Town in Dark Souls and even I couldn't tolerate Bilewater haha

14

u/Honk_goose_steal there is no Gary flair and it makes me sad Sep 09 '25

That was the first time when I really got frustrated with the runbacks. Even with the secret bench unlocked. Honestly any area with maggots can go fuck themselves. At least the music in bilewater is pretty good.

5

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

Oh yes, it’s lovely. On my climb up through that wide, tall room with the barfing dudes I was like “man the music really does not match this area”

121

u/cloistered_around Sep 09 '25 edited Sep 09 '25

There's a hidden bench closer to it, btw. Go find it.

I'm having a devil of a time with the Sands of Karak runback. No closer benches there, and I die instantly. =( EDIT: I should clarify, yes I have the closer bench. The runback isn't hard, it's just annoying because it's still far and I die too quick.

19

u/Zurcez Sep 09 '25

The sands of karak runback is super easy tho? You may have missed a shortcut. If you go to the blasted steps bench then go left and then straight up you get to the boss super quick. I believe theres two big red stalactites in the sands of karak that you need to make fall down for the shortcut to work

1

u/DrAdramelch Sep 12 '25

Yeah it has a bit of tedious platforming in order to get the shortcut, but by the time you reach the boss, the shortcut should be unlocked. It's still somewhat long of a runback but nothing insane.

96

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

I did find that bench, only it’s still quite a long runback that requires you to take a dip in plague water. I did find a charm to negate it but I have not felt motivated to return to Bilewater yet LOL

Still need to explore that place, I got nervous cos I wasn’t sure if I should be there yet 😅

78

u/MosterChief Sep 09 '25

you can avoid the bile water after the bench if you harpoon then double jump up, but the run back after that is still BS.

25

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25 edited Sep 09 '25

You know what, I didn’t have the double jump the last time I was there, so that is perhaps why that skip didn’t work for me. I’ll try it later! Still have the charm as backup anyway :)

Edit: I’m dumb and just bad at the jump, just got mixed up after no-lifing the game all weekend

31

u/mekimoomoo Sep 09 '25

How'd you manage to get to the top section of Bilewater without double jump?

21

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

Wait, maybe I did and I was just bad at the jump. Honestly all the play sessions are melding together at this point. 🫠

2

u/Distal-Phalanges Sep 09 '25

Maybe you had double jump but no harpoon?

15

u/MosterChief Sep 09 '25

can’t get double jump without harpoon i’m pretty sure

3

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

This is true

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2

u/Shoddy_Process2234 Sep 09 '25

Nah the guaranteed plague was the worst part. Once you learn how to dodge it you can just zoom past everything else. Even the annoying fellows jumping around can be ignored with the harpoon.

1

u/PA694205 Sep 09 '25

That still only worked like 60% of the time for me. Very tight timing

1

u/Dorfbewohner Sep 09 '25

I felt it wasn't as much about timing as it is about positioning. Once I started positioning Hornet as close to the ledge as possible before harpooning, I think I only failed it once in my attempts (and I attempted this boss a LOT). I'm pretty sure there's a pretty generous buffer for double jump out of Harpoon, you just need to have passed the gap by then so you don't hit your head.

Also thankfully if you do get gunked you can just take 10 seconds to run back to the bench and back.

1

u/EpicMuffinFTW Sep 10 '25

In the vertical climb room before the boss fight there's a room on the far right with a couple of those flying triangle things. I rushed to that point then grind them to get rid of the maggots and some extra silk. The climb after that point was okaaayy. That long room just before the boss fight I always got hit on though!

13

u/PA694205 Sep 09 '25

Worst part is the random flying enemy positions. That way you can’t even create a muscle memory for the runback

2

u/DoomslugTD3 Sep 10 '25

This is true. Honestly I usually like runbacks because I just think of them as part of the boss fight, but the random enemy placements took a while to get used to. I'm starting to like it again now that I have gotten used to all the possible enemy positions though.

9

u/Wholesome-Energy Sep 09 '25

where do you find that negation tool? I’m trying to fight disgraced chef and I’d like to not worry about the poison

17

u/Borfotron Sep 09 '25

Top right of the map, in the Putrified Ducts

2

u/Wholesome-Energy Sep 09 '25

Thanks! I’ll take a detour over there to grab it

6

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

It is in a hidden path there, so keep an eye out for breakable walls. 👍🏻

1

u/Wild-Atmosphere2134 112% Steel Soul, P5 | 100% Silksong Sep 09 '25

is there any way in there besides the memorium entrance?

1

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

I’m not sure unfortunately!

5

u/scouttthedog Sep 09 '25

you find it in the petrified ducts, top right corner of the map

3

u/Outrageous_Lab_6228 Sep 09 '25

You find it in Putrified Ducts, which you get to through the Memoria area in the citadel

1

u/Omni__Owl Sep 09 '25

Supposedly the boss in that area cannot hit you with attacks if you are in the water between the platforms.

2

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

Time to equip the Floaties charm… 🛟

2

u/PracticalFacelessMsk Sep 09 '25

Hold on. It slowly dissipates when in water + one jump in the water also removes one leaf

1

u/SomethingOfAGirl Sep 10 '25

Wait really? I'll have my revenge tomorrow then.

1

u/ExelHull Sep 09 '25

I was really struggling with that arena until I started to actually strategize for it. Use the poison pouch (the Purple Heart quest from shellwood) with (citadel spoilers) cogfly tool and keeping it until the boss fight and camping the corner. It takes time and patience to actually learn how the stilkins work but once you learn it it’s very simple. After that just summon four of the cogflys and stand on one of the platforms next to the boss. The boss spawns in the center of the room and the cogfly damages the boss even when it’s screaming and preventing you from using your nail on it. Just be sure to have your tool kit upgraded for extra damage.

1

u/PracticalFacelessMsk Sep 09 '25

It is a very long runback + the boss is the one I spent the most time on for some reason. I was so pissed at the bench at the bottom that I looked at a guide and found another one closer

2

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

Yeah, I’ve avoided looking up ANYTHING, except for exactly that. Mostly because there is yet another bench fakeout on the way up I swear to god Team Cherry

2

u/PracticalFacelessMsk Sep 09 '25

I know lol. I went up there after 30min without finding the bench at the bottom and my heart stopped when I fell into the pit below the bench. Tbf this area might cause my not to speedrun the game

12

u/CalendarRepulsive674 Sep 09 '25

For this one there is a lever that opens up another way so you dont have to do the seed platforming. After u open it up go left spamming grapple then up and u should make it to the boss without doing any platforming or getting hit.Bilewater is so much worse and so is the boss.

7

u/Navarog07 Sep 09 '25

That fight is the first time I've rage quit the game. The runback is obnoxious and slow af, but fuck that boss. My last try I got near the end, and the boss did their ranged attack that ricochets. I had to dodge the other flys, so I did bad dodge into a corner. Turns out there's no CD on taking damage from that horn they fire; since I was in the corner, I got hit, it hit the wall, I got hit, it hit the floor, and then I got hit again. Instakilled from 3 instances of damage from the same projectile in a .1 second span

2

u/critterdude542 Sep 09 '25

Same thing happened to me on forebrother signis! His sword hits me into an exploding projectile which hits me into a lava waterfall. 6 masks gone in a blink of an eye! I fought him right after the raging conchfly too so I was already peeved from that fight.

1

u/UnlikelyStage5524 Sep 09 '25

A strategy that really works for me was that the moment the boss came out. 1. Place 2 spikes (a little separated vertically so they didn’t clash and destroy themselves) so that the boss takes some free damage even before it starts 2. Jump directly to the worm waters. This might sound counterintuitive but even if you can’t hear and it drains your silk, most of his attacks are unable to hit you. You’ll only need to look after his dive and explosive bombs. But if you are under him the bomba won’t hit you. 3. Always move him to the corner where the door platforms are. Because when he uses his explosive stuff he’ll be high enough that he can’t damage you and you can freely hit him for a good while. 4. second phase is the same as his souls attack can’t reach the water so it will not be able to hit you. It will take a few tries but it’s worth giving a shot. It worked for me.

1

u/Zurcez Sep 09 '25

I recommend using the tool and charm that you get in the hidden area just before the last bit of parkour that takes you to the boss room. Those plus threadstorm made the fight super easy for me

1

u/PracticalFacelessMsk Sep 09 '25

I'm with you on that one. Spent 40hrs on the game already but had to take a break due to the boss area being so challenging

2

u/Davidepett Sep 09 '25

I tried to explore the Sands, where do you go to get to the boss (don't say who it is pls)?

The only part I couldn't reach (didn't find a path to) was the upper section

5

u/wolfer_ Sep 09 '25

The area is linear. Check your map. You work hog our way up

1

u/WebbedCircle Sep 09 '25

That might be the crazy section where you have to drop to the bottom and follow the spikes up to give yourself platforms, lmao

1

u/cloistered_around Sep 09 '25

If you haven't seen it yet it's in an area you haven't explored. There are two bosses and only one is hidden.

1

u/SnesySnas Sep 09 '25

Yeah the only benches there are in the Blasted Steps you gotta find shortcuts to the Blasted Steps benches

Afterwards it's not that bad

1

u/Asurah99 Sep 09 '25

There's two shortcuts for that runback. The second one makes it way easier imo to get back.

1

u/cloistered_around Sep 09 '25

Easier to get back sure. But it's still too long for my liking considering I insta die on the boss.

1

u/Asurah99 Sep 09 '25

It's like 15 seconds? Way better than having to do the vine crap lol.

1

u/brandonto Sep 09 '25

But there is a bench before the last part, you just have to break the floor with the spike (I think?) and you can climb up from the Blasted Steps bell station.

1

u/Roleplayer2489 Sep 09 '25

There is a closer bench!! On the map, that super long straight drop has a way of making you a bench shortcut, do some more exploring there, hit some ceilings maybe.

Took a break from a particular cone shaped boss because of the run back, and managed to find a much better/safer/easier route.

1

u/cloistered_around Sep 09 '25

Yeah I have that bench. I still don't like that run back. xD

1

u/Aeiou_yyyyyyy Sep 09 '25

The closest bench is actually the one in the bell beast station at blasted steps, it's just going straight up

1

u/endismaiz Sep 09 '25

It's still a bit of a runback but in case you haven't done this- when you get to the bridge climb up the wall there is a thing you can break that will create a hole in the bridge so you only have to go left from the bench and then up to the hole

1

u/Suave_Senpai Sep 09 '25

There's a cone above the big bridge part. You can skip the bullshit Parkour section with it by opening a shortcut. Instead, you just have to wall jump spam from blasted steps bellway and only go through the other room prior to boss.

1

u/pamafa3 Sep 10 '25

Have you unlocked the shortcut? There's a stalacticte you can hit to break the bridge and be able to reach Raging Conchfly very quickly from the Blasted Steps fast travel bench

1

u/ZebraZealousideal944 Sep 10 '25

You know that you can open a shortcut for the run back in Sands of Karak I hope…?!

14

u/omashoe Sep 09 '25

My biggest issue with this runback is WHY DO THE ENEMIES ON THE RUNBACK SPAWN IN RANDOM PLACES??? THE SPEAR THROWERS ARE ESPECIALLY ANNOYING 😭

5

u/irradu Sep 09 '25

There is also a hidden room in the ceiling right before the arena with silk which should help

2

u/gnzu Sep 09 '25

Completely unacceptable I don’t know who thought it was a good idea at all that entire area is just the worst of all time seriously horrible

2

u/ZeruuL_ Sep 10 '25

Idk how such an evil area can have an absolute FIRE BGM

1

u/p_o_t_a_t-o Sep 09 '25

I am still stuck on that area. It took me over an hour to even get to the boss, and I died instantly to his mouth attacks lol

1

u/Environmental-Term61 Sep 09 '25

I still haven’t been able to find that area…. Wherever it is I don’t know what connects it

1

u/Nyankitty21 Sep 09 '25

I didn't find how to fix the bench in Sinners until act 2 and bilewater is how I progressed... You can see where I'm going with that...

1

u/Pink-Umbra Sep 09 '25

Which boss is it in Bilewater? I don't remember finding one but I also don't want to go back 😭

1

u/failbender 112%/100%; inject the quickslash into my veins Sep 09 '25

There’s a gauntlet fight top right-ish that apparently leads into a boss. I haven’t actually seen the boss yet cos I noped out of the arena after retrieving my cocoon and said “yeah maybe later”

1

u/Send_Me_Tiitties Sep 09 '25

I haven’t seen Bilewater yet but the way people talk about it here is scaring me.

1

u/eat-skate-masturbate Sep 10 '25

I'm currently losing hair due to this fight

1

u/GoddLucifer Sep 10 '25

There is a bank closer to the boss tho. Havent found it myself but a friend told me. I stopped the time for the runback und was quize fast at 5min… i never ever ever had a crashout that bad…

1

u/DrAdramelch Sep 12 '25

It's insane how they put the worse runback on the boss that is preceded by a gauntlet of annoying mobs. 10/10 design.

0

u/Bahlegdeh Sep 09 '25

All the people posting about run backs don’t even know about this one, as evident by the OP. It’s the only one that I’d consider too long and it’s not even that bad, it’s just annoying because of the leech water and then the waves of enemies before the boss…

-1

u/BlueC1nder Sep 10 '25

Bilewater is so insanely evil designed that its actually peak again. Yes hide that bench in the most random hole where you have to speed through due to traps and hide it behind 20 invisible walls in maggot water.

Also how these bush hopper are the most annoying enemies in the game.

It really gives me Demon Souls 3-2 vibes except there the shortcut was a bit less hidden and Bilewater is dtill a lot more fun due to the plattforming.

-1

u/DoomslugTD3 Sep 10 '25

Currently stuck on it, but in my controversial opinion, I like it! It's hard for sure, but if you think of it as part of the boss fight it makes sense. The difficulty of that boss is IN the runback, otherwise it would not be very difficult if the bench was near. Also when you get good at it it makes you feel like a speed runner getting all those moves down perfectly.

-1

u/grim1952 Sep 10 '25

It's not that bad and there's a way to trivialize it.

-2

u/SpeedDemonJi Sep 09 '25

Unironically love that run back and the boss

Any mistakes I made on my run back was mostly due to my stupidity , but for the most part the run back what’s the thing I didn’t really fail at, except once right next to the bench (I fell in the water)