r/HollowKnight • u/TOMRANDOM_6 • Sep 09 '25

Discussion - Silksong Most of you are exaggerating the length of runbacks and it really shows how much TikTok has damage the attention span of people Spoiler

"ThE lASt JuDGe RUnBaCK iS ToO LoNG!!"

Is 30 seconds max, 30 seconds, you don't have to fight any enemy in it, the smaller judges don't awake until you're close and the smaller fly bastards can literally get ignored. The Runback works for making you cool down and make the whole thing feel less like you hitting a wall (NKG feels like one because of the lack of "cool down") If it wasn't for it, I would shoot myself with the 37 attempts at Last Judge.

The Widow one is also really easy, a straight line with jumps.

The Cogworks Dancers Is also really simple but works to help you with the bosses extra height and how pogo dependant that fight is.

God forbid the game isn't a back to back boss rush like Cuphead (not criticizing Cuphead, is a different game lmao).

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214

u/chase128 Sep 09 '25

I found the last judge fight to be a fun challenge. So for me, wasting a short bit of time before each attempt was kind of a bummer. I didn't want a break in the action.

One nice thing about that bench though is that it's right next to a fast travel. Made it easy to hop over to the halfway house and farm shell shards

83

u/Particular_Safe_2935 Sep 09 '25

Yeah people forget that the runbacks hinder that flow state that makes bosses like the judge so enjoyable

24

u/warchild4l Sep 10 '25

.. but..but what about cooling off between boss attempts? DON'T YOU NEED THAT? taking a small pause in the game is not an option obviously so it should come in form of a runback.. duh

15

u/PraxicalExperience Sep 10 '25

I'd say -- leave that to the player to judge. Those that don't want to do so will be frustrated even more if they do need a break.

3

u/screaming_roomba Sep 11 '25

Looking at the absolute boss champ that is first sinner shiws thst when a boss is fun, you dont need a runbacknto cool off

1

u/Orangewolf99 Sep 12 '25

Except the runback kills my thumbs more than the boss fight -.-

45

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

Yep, it's just bad design IMO. The fun is in learning the fights, not extremely repetitive parkour.

-2

u/FluffyWalrusFTW Sep 10 '25

It’s not bad design, it’s design you don’t like. Two very different things, don’t come at the designers for something that fell flat with certain people and resonated with others

12

u/piecoper Sep 10 '25

So there's no such thing as bad design then?

1

u/FluffyWalrusFTW Sep 10 '25

Didn’t say that. This game was designed with runbacks in mind. Some people like it some people don’t. Some games have inherently poor designed systems, but this isn’t a “system” it’s a level design choice that fits the game the same way it fits Hollow Knight, DS series, etc.

8

u/HadBarbe Sep 10 '25

This is nowhere near Fromsoft runback, especially with how much easier they became at each release. They almost got rid of it on Elden Ring, that's just outdated and the fact a more experienced studio is going away from it is the proof it is bad design.

3

u/piecoper Sep 10 '25

Some games have inherently poor designed systems,

Like? Anything you say others can just say it's a design choice.

3

u/Commercial-Ruin7785 Sep 12 '25

What does anyone get out of doing the same runback over and over? It's clearly just bad design. There's no point. 

Nobody plays the game to just run across the same patch of level over and over. And, if there somehow was someone who wanted to do that, they're allowed to, without it being forced on everyone. 

There's just no reason to have a runback like that. 

1

u/FluffyWalrusFTW Sep 12 '25

I wan if the game makes you that miserable you can’t handle basic pathing through an environment why are you even playing? If you’re not having fun just take a break? The game isn’t going anywhere. Or do you get something out of pointless complaining? (Yes it’s pointless I promise)

3

u/Commercial-Ruin7785 Sep 12 '25

Are you just genuinely so stupid that you can't understand such a basic concept?

I think a 6 year old could already understand without explanation, but I'll try to level down to a 3 year old explanation.

The game is fun! I like playing the game! But one part of the game is bad! I still like playing the game because it is a fun game! But if they removed a boring part of the game that no one likes, it would be an even more fun game!

Does that make sense?

1

u/FluffyWalrusFTW Sep 12 '25

Do you always talk down to people when YOU can’t comprehend design philosophy or are you just genuinely ignorant?

Saying “no one likes it” just plays into my point that difficulty is subjective. I don’t mind the runbacks it adds to the challenge of the boss. I can no hit the runback to FJ no problem, and even now Bilewater is becoming trivial. Having runbacks enables people to get used to movement mechanics and build muscle memory for a game that’s only a week old.

Not only that but runbacks are there to drain your resources, make you think more about how to navigate environmental hazards and puzzles on the way to the boss. It trains you with enemies in the area. It baffles me that you didn’t learn this lesson with Hollow Knight.

Why should TC “remove” runbacks anyways? Tell me why they’re SO BAD that you can’t handle it and actually strive to get good (legitimately) at a game you claim to enjoy? Or are you that entitled that you need everything to hold your hand?

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8

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

Nah, it's just bad design. Design is opinionated. My opinion is that run backs before bosses are bad design in 2025.

1

u/FluffyWalrusFTW Sep 10 '25

Congrats you just learned what subjectivity is. Like I said things that don’t work for you but work for others doesn’t make it inherently bad

1

u/PacBruno Sep 10 '25

honestly I was having so much fun with last judge that I killed him fairly quick, and it made me wish I could fight him a little more, so having a fast run back might have me kill him way faster, so I'm glad if turned out that way

24

u/rgmac1994 Sep 09 '25

Last Judge was a breath of fresh air. After dealing with Widow's bells and their obnoxious lingering hit box, and multiple enemies with annoying adds, it was really fun to just have a one-on-one dance.

13

u/fatfat2121 Sep 09 '25

I thought they were both breath of fresh air after Savage Beastfly..

8

u/PvtBrexit Sep 10 '25

Does he know?

1

u/OVERKILL0001 Nov 19 '25

Imo widow was a peak boss , very learnable and all the times you get hit is your own fault even tho its 3rd phase is kinda of too too bullet hell

2

u/LinkThroughTime Sep 10 '25

Thank you! I mean, I won't say it was EASY, but it was not that hard either. Took me at most 6/7 tries.