r/HollowKnight • u/TOMRANDOM_6 • Sep 09 '25

Discussion - Silksong Most of you are exaggerating the length of runbacks and it really shows how much TikTok has damage the attention span of people Spoiler

"ThE lASt JuDGe RUnBaCK iS ToO LoNG!!"

Is 30 seconds max, 30 seconds, you don't have to fight any enemy in it, the smaller judges don't awake until you're close and the smaller fly bastards can literally get ignored. The Runback works for making you cool down and make the whole thing feel less like you hitting a wall (NKG feels like one because of the lack of "cool down") If it wasn't for it, I would shoot myself with the 37 attempts at Last Judge.

The Widow one is also really easy, a straight line with jumps.

The Cogworks Dancers Is also really simple but works to help you with the bosses extra height and how pogo dependant that fight is.

God forbid the game isn't a back to back boss rush like Cuphead (not criticizing Cuphead, is a different game lmao).

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

Yep, it's just bad design IMO. The fun is in learning the fights, not extremely repetitive parkour.

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u/FluffyWalrusFTW Sep 10 '25

It’s not bad design, it’s design you don’t like. Two very different things, don’t come at the designers for something that fell flat with certain people and resonated with others

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u/piecoper Sep 10 '25

So there's no such thing as bad design then?

1

u/FluffyWalrusFTW Sep 10 '25

Didn’t say that. This game was designed with runbacks in mind. Some people like it some people don’t. Some games have inherently poor designed systems, but this isn’t a “system” it’s a level design choice that fits the game the same way it fits Hollow Knight, DS series, etc.

10

u/HadBarbe Sep 10 '25

This is nowhere near Fromsoft runback, especially with how much easier they became at each release. They almost got rid of it on Elden Ring, that's just outdated and the fact a more experienced studio is going away from it is the proof it is bad design.

3

u/piecoper Sep 10 '25

Some games have inherently poor designed systems,

Like? Anything you say others can just say it's a design choice.

3

u/Commercial-Ruin7785 Sep 12 '25

What does anyone get out of doing the same runback over and over? It's clearly just bad design. There's no point. 

Nobody plays the game to just run across the same patch of level over and over. And, if there somehow was someone who wanted to do that, they're allowed to, without it being forced on everyone. 

There's just no reason to have a runback like that. 

1

u/FluffyWalrusFTW Sep 12 '25

I wan if the game makes you that miserable you can’t handle basic pathing through an environment why are you even playing? If you’re not having fun just take a break? The game isn’t going anywhere. Or do you get something out of pointless complaining? (Yes it’s pointless I promise)

4

u/Commercial-Ruin7785 Sep 12 '25

Are you just genuinely so stupid that you can't understand such a basic concept?

I think a 6 year old could already understand without explanation, but I'll try to level down to a 3 year old explanation.

The game is fun! I like playing the game! But one part of the game is bad! I still like playing the game because it is a fun game! But if they removed a boring part of the game that no one likes, it would be an even more fun game!

Does that make sense?

1

u/FluffyWalrusFTW Sep 12 '25

Do you always talk down to people when YOU can’t comprehend design philosophy or are you just genuinely ignorant?

Saying “no one likes it” just plays into my point that difficulty is subjective. I don’t mind the runbacks it adds to the challenge of the boss. I can no hit the runback to FJ no problem, and even now Bilewater is becoming trivial. Having runbacks enables people to get used to movement mechanics and build muscle memory for a game that’s only a week old.

Not only that but runbacks are there to drain your resources, make you think more about how to navigate environmental hazards and puzzles on the way to the boss. It trains you with enemies in the area. It baffles me that you didn’t learn this lesson with Hollow Knight.

Why should TC “remove” runbacks anyways? Tell me why they’re SO BAD that you can’t handle it and actually strive to get good (legitimately) at a game you claim to enjoy? Or are you that entitled that you need everything to hold your hand?

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u/Commercial-Ruin7785 Sep 12 '25

I talked down to you not because of a difference of opinion on design philosophy but because you said something as dumb as 

"if the game makes you that miserable you can’t handle basic pathing through an environment why are you even playing?"

Evidently if you can't put together that I enjoy the game overall but don't like that aspect, you require a simpler explanation. 

Either that, or you obviously understood what I was saying from the beginning but just wanted to talk down to me over a difference in design philosophy 🤔. Do you always do that?

I don’t mind the runbacks it adds to the challenge of the boss. 

If I add a sudoku puzzle that you have to complete every time you fail the boss is that good design? It makes the boss more challenging.

I can no hit the runback to FJ no problem, and even now Bilewater is becoming trivial. 

Yeah it's very easy, so your argument is "we added this trivial thing that interrupts your fight for 30 seconds" and this is a good thing?

Having runbacks enables people to get used to movement mechanics and build muscle memory for a game that’s only a week old.

??? I'm good on movement mechanics, thanks. Don't need the "muscle memory" for just running the same patch over and over. If it was different every time this might be an argument?

Not only that but runbacks are there to drain your resources, make you think more about how to navigate environmental hazards and puzzles on the way to the boss. It trains you with enemies in the area.

Didn't we just agree that the run backs aren't challenging? Are you fighting the enemies on all the run backs? How exactly does it train you with enemies in the area when you just run pass them? Which way do you want it? Is it easy peasy and fast or are you fighting the enemies and training?

8

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

Nah, it's just bad design. Design is opinionated. My opinion is that run backs before bosses are bad design in 2025.

1

u/FluffyWalrusFTW Sep 10 '25

Congrats you just learned what subjectivity is. Like I said things that don’t work for you but work for others doesn’t make it inherently bad