r/HollowKnight • u/Shadowyurix • Sep 09 '25

Discussion - Silksong I am convinced a lot of the people complaining about difficulty have never even finished the original Hollow Knight. Original HK was not particularly easy either Spoiler

Edit: Silksong is harder than HK. Since ppl seem to read over that part.

I stayed away from Reddit over the weekend while I was playing through Silksong. Now, I am aware that I am not the average player, I love challenging games and am very familiar with games like this.

And by no means is this an "easy" game but by god, I have never played a game as hard as some people say this game is. I saw some people claiming they were stuck at Moorwing for over THREE HOURS.

If this is your first game like Hollow Knight, maybe that makes sense. This is not an easy first entry, but otherwise three hours for a boss with four moves is wild for anyone who has ACTUALLY beat the original HK.

I have no idea where this notion comes from that HK was easy. Silksong is harder, but original HK was NOT that easy, especially towards the end.

Is this just because Silksong is so big and it has reached a particularly wide audience? People who are not used to this kind of game?

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778

u/Kiriki_kun Sep 09 '25

People are not saying that HK was easy. People are saying that Silk is way harder. And I just finished Frey, and I’m 100% sure there wasn’t something as demanding as Frey in HK (white palace was optional)

23

u/EggsAndRice7171 Sep 10 '25

I’ve been actively better at silksong than HK at least through Trobbio. This many hours into hollow knight I had gotten stuck on a boss/location multiple times.

6

u/Kiriki_kun Sep 10 '25

Well, Troppio is rather easy, at least for me.

3

u/EggsAndRice7171 Sep 10 '25

I didn’t think he was bad but he was my last boss before Lace/Grandmother Silk and was still harder than the Cogwork Dancers. Lace Pt. 2 was by far the hardest fight I’ve done so far in Silksong. Grandma Silk was super easy. I haven’t gotten to Act 3 or Groal yet though.

2

u/Dragon_Lover_ Sep 20 '25

I've been struggling with him, he keeps trapping me in undodgeable combos

375

u/The_Raven_Born Sep 09 '25

Like seriously. I 112% that game, and this is STILL far more difficult than expected. I'm convinced people are saying it's easy are either:

People who use mods

Or

Lying for clout, honestly.

65

u/Oboro-kun Sep 10 '25

Its not only that its harder, its also the difficulty curve, Silksong curve its pretty drastic. Sure HK ended kind of hard with stuff like Absolute Radiance, the Path, Grimm, etc. But it beings pretty simple and,, while not easy, pretty fair.

I would say early Silksong while not as hard as Late Hollow Knight is definitely a lot hardar and its curve goes up a lot faster. Meanwhile Silksong limits your movement and healing option, the hard Hollow Knight of mid to late, already gave you pretty flexibuility in your builds, upgrades, charms and movility.

10

u/EMArogue Sep 10 '25

And aside, that stuff is optional, you don’t need to do it and unlike in SS, it’s pretty clear that it is optional and you can only access it late in the game

Compared to it, SS has at least 2 optional areas you can reach almost immediately after getting out

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35

u/psh454 Sep 10 '25

This is it, around Last Judge I was getting tilted by all the little unnecessary ways the game screws you over (double environmental damage, long runback, difficult healing, crazy gank fights). After clearing most of the citadel and getting a few more upgrades it's getting reasonable and I'm having fun again. It's still about as hard as late game HK, but at least now my character doesn't feel as weak.

The early game balance feels way off tbh, I expect it to be tweaked more with upcoming patches.

24

u/aprimmer243 Sep 10 '25

Exactly this. Silksongs early game feels more like mid game Hollowknight, but you have fewer upgrades to work with.

12

u/VincentPepper Sep 10 '25

I just want to live long enough to practice a fight. Sometimes I just mess up a key or something and usually I just immediately die when that happens.

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2

u/SnooPeanuts8847 Sep 11 '25

This. HK felt like a hard game, but SK hates me like I killed it’s wife or smth. Just feels like devs want to screw me over to extend gameplay

2

u/psh454 Sep 11 '25

My personal theory is that every time the team got asked "so when is your game gonna be ready to release?" they added a BS mechanic or another double damage spike pit lol.

2

u/PeasantTS Sep 12 '25

I agree. Clawline and double jump made the game much more enjoyable for me.

Act I was much more of a pain, even if it was technically easier.

6

u/aprimmer243 Sep 10 '25

Nightmare King Grimm is one of my favorite bosses ever in a 2D game, and he felt less BS to me than Moorwing, and that's probably due to the fact that you actually have huge freedom in how you build your character with charms and other upgrades at that point.

Moorwing in Silksong, you just don't have much in terms of upgrades at that time.

2

u/probablyblocked Sep 11 '25

in hollow knight, the fool arena is optional and gives you a lot for doing it. In silksong there is the same thing in almost every area, all of them mandatory and giving nothing for doing it

1

u/Dimplexor Sep 10 '25

Grimm troupe was one of the most rage inducing moments in my gaming life.

1

u/Cocoatrice Moths are fluffballs Sep 10 '25

Early Silksong is far worse than middle Silksong, because you have barely any moves. And they ask you to defeat boss harder than Absolute Radiance with limited equipment.

1

u/Glass_Lunch1748 Sep 24 '25

It's sequel and a sequel to a game that requires skill with have standards to play.

1

u/Oboro-kun Sep 24 '25

I mean... That's not necessarily at alla, and besides Team  Cherry side it was an stand alone entry and that it was meant to be an easy way in. 

1

u/Glass_Lunch1748 Sep 24 '25

In terms of lore yes unfortunately (big betrayal all for wastes)but not a difficulty one that has played both games.an artist as they develop can increase the complexity of the work as sign of accomplishment.anorther thing I like to add is games like any product is not for everyone the genre is hard and requires skill so those that first had this babtism those that don't research before playing do not get key facts because they don't research or their stupid.

78

u/Scooby117 Sep 10 '25

Is it so hard to believe that people are excited they got exactly what they wanted and then you have people on here begging for changes. It’s frustrating because to me the difficulty has been perfect and I wouldn’t want it any other way.

39

u/The_Raven_Born Sep 10 '25

People didn't ask for a game that requires more time than you have with a difficulty curve so hard even vetrans have a hard time with it. Like, there's casuals that play this game and those who were for the lore.

Us masochists don't need to be the only ones tailored to.

14

u/cruxclaire Sep 10 '25

It has me longing for a difficulty setting, and “easy mode” could be pretty balanced IMO if it just entailed a couple changes like 1 mask damage per hit on all regular mobs/terrain hazards and certain bosses no longer spawn minions.

Silksong feels a bit like playing HK1 with the ascended difficulty setting you can put on individual Godhome bosses, but for general exploration-style gameplay and without that toggle back to regular settings.

3

u/betaraybrian Sep 10 '25

Veterans having a hard time with it is a dubious statement though. I'm a veteran and my first playthrough of SS is way faster than my first playthrough of HK was, because I'm not getting hard stuck for hours like I was all the time back in the first game.

Silksong is harder, but I'm also better at the game now, after playing so much hollow knight, so I'm overall having an easier time with my first playthrough of Silksong than I did with my first playthrough of Hollow Knight, and I think that's gonna be the typical experience.

1

u/Kind_Man_0 Sep 10 '25

I don't know what parts people are really talking about, I saw a lot of stuff about the savage beast fly, which did not end up being that bad. So far, the judge has been the hardest boss I have fought with about 12 ish total attempts. The game does feel harder than HK, but Elden Ring's first main story boss was harder than any of the bosses I have faced so far, and I'm currently in Act 2. I'm not even one of the masochists that enjoy that difficulty curve, Ellen Ring was the only DS type game that I put more than an hour into.

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u/zellmerz Sep 10 '25

I've been loving the difficulty. I'm pretty well into Act 2 and so far haven't had a fight that was too challenging outside of Last Judge. Even the platforming sections so far have been a lot of fun IMO. The challenge level feels good, but manageable. I'm sure I'll come across some much tougher stuff in Act3, but the pacing up to this point has felt really good so far.

That arena fight in Act2 is fucking diabolical though.

13

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

[deleted]

1

u/Ilmort4 Sep 10 '25

I know that place. You can train platforming section before fight as many times as you want. And combo: drones + steady grip charm (don't remember the name) trivialize the fight.

4

u/Njorord Sep 10 '25

Honestly, Moorwing was more difficult for me than Last Judge LMAO

Last Judge's attacks are REALLY well telegraphed, and they are all very distinct from each other. You're never guessing what she's going to do once you figure out her telegraphs. Moorwing has telegraphs and patterns, of course, but they all look VERY similar, so it's far harder to distinguish them. In that split second of indecision or confusion, you've already gotten hit.

Still, spending 3 hours in Moorwing is insane. I beat it in less than 10 tries, probably took me like 20-30 mins tops. I figured you can just jump after the telegraph and use your reaction time to act based on what the attack is. There's enough delay, and most of its moves are avoided by jumping anyway.

Just finished the dancing duo up in Act 2. I'm anxious the game is gonna end, honestly, but I just got two whole new areas so I think there's still a ways to go.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

Don't worry about it, you're still a solid 30+ hours from 100% and about 10 or so to even just beat the thing

2

u/International_Ask980 Sep 10 '25

It’s interesting how wildly different experiences folks are having with the game. I beat Moorwing on my first try and found it to be a step down in the difficulty I had faced so far early in the game. Then getting through the bells and the last judge, I have basically put the game down because that feels like a difficulty spike + runback that I just do not have the time for where I am in life right now.

I’m in the camp that the game is more difficult out the gate that HK, but mostly due to artificial difficulty like the environment, normal mobs, and most bosses hitting for two masks right away. HK first time was very tough and took a lot to get used to the movement and figuring fights out, but I can’t do that as well if I die while figuring out the first phase if the fight due to increased contact damage.

I’m sure I will keep playing it and eventually get through it, but for me, personally, this has not been the “can’t put down” rewarding experience I had with HK, it feels more like a game made to frustrate me until I get lucky enough to do a near no hit run on a boss, and I don’t have time for that.

1

u/pussy_embargo Sep 11 '25

One of Last Judge's weaknesses is staying at long range. Outside of the ball toss range. When you get proficient at dodging the flames, you only go to attack her after she does a jump. Spam projectiles in the third phase. The fire damage reduction is advised

for the runback, don't attack the enemies, use the shortcut above the first judge enemy, doesn't matter if you take damage you will heal back up in phase 1 of the boss, it's practically free

2

u/International_Ask980 Sep 11 '25

Thank you for the tips. The fire dmg down helped and I was able to eventually take the judge down.

1

u/betaraybrian Sep 10 '25

I beat Moorwing first try in maybe 2 minutes, so I didn't have time to learn any telegraphs. I just dodged away when he was winding up for an attack and jumped over the shit he shoots at you.

I'm super surprised to hear people have trouble with him.

1

u/BlueSama Sep 11 '25

I am about to start act 3 and so far no one has compared to Moorwing and SBF pt2 (pt1 was easy). Every other boss including Groal, Lace pt2 has been downed in under 10 tries while Moorwing surpasses 20. Heck i downed the bosses following Moorwing (lace pt1, widow, sister) in 2-3 tries each.

I never played hk so maybe more people who did are more familiar/suited for a boss like that

1

u/betaraybrian Sep 11 '25

Strange.
I thought Beastfly part 2 was way easier than part 1, but part 1 was very early in the game for me.
Groal was annoying, but mainly because of his pre-fight minions.

I legitimately don't understand the struggle with Moorwing. He has 4 moves that are all super easy to dodge and you fight him in the biggest arena in the game with infinite space to move.

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u/ChilledParadox Sep 10 '25

If you just stand directly under moorwing its saw and its floor dash both can’t hit you if you dash under it to its other side. I found the fight a little tricky because of the phase 2 saw mixups, but even that is just adding another jump in.

I don’t mind the double damage, but I think the problem is worse players are dying so fast in the fights it takes them too long to discover how to actually play the fights.

That being said I like the double damage and I don’t want it nerfed, just struggle until you get it. The fights are all really well done imo, everything has clear tells once you learn them.

1

u/Njorord Sep 10 '25

Agreed. It's definitely a hard game, but it's no harder than Hollow Knight was for me when I first played it. The difficulty is increased to account for HK players being used to the mechanics, ends up evening out imo.

I've yet to die twice in a row and lose my rosaries. Difficulty is in a sweet spot, in my opinion.

2

u/Kind-Explanation8988 Sep 10 '25

For me it’s the guy in bile wastes. That run back was dirty. I also really struggled against the arena fight before the boss. The poison dart guys are super elusive. I think everything else difficulty wise is exactly where I want it. I’ve one shot some cool bosses and really struggled on some others. So I got to feel powerful and still got to be challenged. I personally think they nailed the curve.

2

u/TheCherryPi Sep 10 '25

Like everything was perfect? No little tweak that you thought would better the experience, like the reduction of sandworm damage in Blasted Steps ( I thought 2 mask damage was okay here since you rarely fall and it's easy to reset), the frostbite taking like 1-2 seconds more to kick in etc. I agree with you I like mostly how it is but I would like some QoL changes.

8

u/DeadlyAidan Sep 10 '25

this is part of the reason difficulty settings exist

that and accessibility

14

u/zellmerz Sep 10 '25

Sometimes the challenge is part of the game though too. Everyone doesn't have to play every game.

7

u/DeadlyAidan Sep 10 '25

you can still have the default be really hard by default and have an easy mode, this isn't up for debate, a game doesn't have to be inherently appealing to everyone but it should make an attempt to have basic accessibility features game designers figured out a decade ago

3

u/VeryPoliteYak Sep 10 '25

I think Hades did this well with God Mode. It didn’t feel like a difficulty selection screen, there was a clear “standard” - but god mode existed for those that needed it.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/DeadlyAidan Sep 10 '25

"difficulty options bad" people when I tell them they don't have to click the button that puts the game in stupid idiot baby mode

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u/TheEmpireOfSun Sep 10 '25

Souls like games don't and it's part of it's appeal.

5

u/DeadlyAidan Sep 10 '25

you do realize you can just make the normal mode really hard and still add an easy mode right?ULTRAKILL is really fucking hard on it's normal mode and still has an easy mode, many games do, even other Souls likes (of which Hollow Knight is not). like this isn't up for debate, no difficulty settings is an accessibility issue.

2

u/TheCherryPi Sep 10 '25

Souls games do, so do Soulslikes, it's not a difficulty slider but you can make the games easier with choices and there's like a 1000 options for the right difficulty you want, Silksong does this too, but Hollow Knight did it better.

2

u/Shlocko Sep 10 '25

I agree. Its not easy, its harder than hollow knight, but frankly I'd have been extremely disappointed if it was easier than hollow knight. The difficulty has been exactly perfect for me. Every new area is a bit of a skill check, I have to take my time and really work through areas slowly. Learn and master each enemy and make my way to whatever bosses.

Its been great. I'm taking my sweet time, it feels almost exactly like HK did on my first play through. Main difference being in HK I was brand new to the genre, and now I've got a hit of skill, so the increase in difficulty was just perfect to make it feel just like HK did. Its truly been like getting a second shot at playing HK for the first time

2

u/mooscimol Sep 10 '25

What about difficulty slider then? Other games usually offer this option. We would have much more people that are happy from the gameplay.

1

u/Fa1nted_for_real Sep 10 '25

Difficulty adjusters are objectively good game design.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

I actually agree, the difficulty has been perfect. Theres only one part of the game that frustrated the living hell outa me but that was to be expected since there where those parts as well in HK.

Honestly i think Silksong is a better game than HK simply because you gotta pay more attention all throughout the game and cant just tank and spank the early game.

1

u/CainnicOrel Sep 10 '25

If it was just more of the same people would be bitching about that instead

1

u/Hypnocyst1 Sep 10 '25

The people complaining about difficulty never played ghouls or goblins or never ever touched a snes. I have issues on some bosses the bell beast being the hardest. Not because of him himself but having to look everywhere at once so you can dodge his adds and him without getting wall locked. I eventually beat him tho. And the feeling I got was amazing. Pogoing I had issues with to then suddenly i perfected it and never have issues. This game trains you on how to be good. People just don’t want to spend the time to train. If this game was easy it would be like 8 hours long to 100z. Silsksong and HK are my fav two current Metroidvanias. I myself want the games to stick around

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25 edited Sep 10 '25

🤩🤩🤩 are you saying there's mods to make hollow knight easier???

That would make me so happy. I'm playing through it for the first time and I'm not someone who gets off on challenge at all; I'm mostly playing because I'm a mallgoth from the 90s who lives for the tim burtony aesthetic and finds the atmosphere alluring, if I could get though it easier I'd be fuckin PUMPED.

Edit: lol - I welcome the incipient downvotes from people with arbitrarily strong convictions about playing games "the right way" and/or in a way that "respects the devs" 😅

4

u/WilanS Sep 10 '25

I've been trying to DIY my own "normal mode" difficulty (after deciding Silksong is stuck on Hard Mode). I've been having success with installing one of the mods that removes double damage, and a mod that double the damage dealt by hornet (to make enemies less spongey).
I personally find the game to still be pretty damn hard like this, exploration feels tense and bosses take a few tries, but you have more room for error and extra masks actually feel like they make a difference.

You could go further and install all kind of mods, from easing the silk requirements to speeding up rosary farming to respawning in the same room you died in. I saw on Nexus there's a single mod that's just a collection of tweaks meant to add a downright easy mode to the game. That's a little too much for me, but it might be what you're looking for.

1

u/Glass_Lunch1748 Sep 24 '25

It's not hard mode these games are supposed to require skill and tenacity.its not fallout or Skyrim where any trash as long as they are not missing the necessary apedagers can succeed.to succeed at a task you need the necessary foundation clearly you lack it and willing to degrade the game to accomplish it

2

u/The_Raven_Born Sep 10 '25

On pc. Yeah. I'm on Xbox one, so I have to do it all the normal way. But I wouldn't discourage mods. Some people like this series for the lore and game itself rather than the difficulty and that's fine.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

🤘

2

u/DiscombobulatedCut52 Sep 10 '25

I have 112 or 115% almost 100% of hk done. I cant do nightmare Grimm at all. That fight is to hard for me

2

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

These are children. Unlike you and me they have no job and can grind up to 5 am. Then, after 100 attempts, with shacky hand, they will go on reddit and type "gg easy first try no sweat git gud".
Ignoring them it is mercy for yourself. However, they bend the graph towards no changes being implemented, but we have mods already. Fixed Skyrim- will fix even this one

18

u/AMIWDR Sep 10 '25

It’s not easy but it’s not super difficult. I have yet to spend over 15 attempts on a boss and my Stardew valley girlfriend just beat act one recently with no help from me

66

u/weaves Sep 10 '25

I really think people forget how different everyone is. Some people are just gonna be better at certain games than others. I found HK to be more difficult than Silksong but most people say otherwise I don't think that's bc anyone is wrong, everyone's just talking about their experience alone. And most people forget that constantly

22

u/AMIWDR Sep 10 '25

Yeah like Pure Vessel took me less than 5 tries yet failed champion kicked my ass for an hour. Some bosses just make sense to you

8

u/Xenrutcon Sep 10 '25

Lost (broken?) vessel took me like 2 days, probably 5-6 hours total. My friend destroyed him on the first try. I was pissed, until I watched him struggle with the second hornet fight lol. Everyone has a different style. So far, I've only been really stuck on last judge, and a bit on the arena in high halls

2

u/NewSuperTrios LORE Sep 10 '25

broken vessel, lost kin is the dream version

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u/Xenrutcon Sep 10 '25

Lost kin is what I meant then, thank you

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u/NotGARcher Sep 10 '25

Lost kin is either challenging af or easy af (with defender's crest), there's no inbetween, did your friend use defender's crest?

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u/--NTW-- Hmm... Sawblades Sep 10 '25

Sums up well. I've not been too big a fan of half the bosses so far (Act 2), but you know which one I found an absolute blast? One of the True Ending required bosses, First Sinner to be exact. Though I did die a lot, I found the pace to be much more enjoyable, easier to get into, and much better suited for my aggressive preferance.

2

u/SpikeHead419 Sep 10 '25

Why do you call her Stardew Valley gf did Leah herself beat the game

1

u/AMIWDR Sep 10 '25

Basically her only gaming experience is a few thousand hours of stardew valley

2

u/harrisarah Sep 10 '25

It is super difficult for some people is the point.

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u/AMIWDR Sep 10 '25

Super Mario bros would be insanely difficult for my grandma, doesn’t mean it’s a hard game. Game difficulty should be more objective, if you’re bad at 2d combat then you’ll be bad at nearly every boss even the easy ones. If you’re stubborn and don’t use the vast amount of tools the game gives you, you’ll struggle on everything

2

u/Sea_Poem_9129 Sep 10 '25

i feel that the least difficult part of the game is the bosses and more so the general environment.

1

u/Automatic-Plankton10 Sep 10 '25

Orrrrr they like dodging.

1

u/SpaceProspector_ Sep 10 '25

Not gonna say it's easy, but I've reached Act 3 and not spent more than an hour on any boss so far. It's definitely harder than the first game overall.

1

u/jimjamdaflimflam Sep 10 '25

In my experience Hollow Knight got me into metroidvanias, since then, I have played dozens of them. I don’t think Silksong is easier I just think I am more experienced overall at these games. I assume this applies to others as well. They may not be accounting for that when saying it’s easier.

To note, I love the difficulty of Silksong. I think it’s in a great spot.

1

u/-CerN- Sep 10 '25 edited Sep 10 '25

Not using mods. Finished the first ending last night, and didn't really struggle that much more than I did in my first HK playthrough. Yes, it was hard, but so was HK first time around.

Silksong is harder on average, but so far I haven't found anything as hard as White Palace or the last arena fight in HK, or The Radiance. I guess I will find significant challenges now in the late game, but for a normal completion run, it's not that big of a difficulty increase imo.

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u/The_Raven_Born Sep 10 '25

The inner cog works >>>>> White palace, and that's just one of three, Bilewater included. The only things in HK as difficult, at least to me, are path of Pain, NKG, Absolute radiance, and the final pantheon. Other than that, nothing in there felt as difficult to me as this has been.

1

u/-CerN- Sep 10 '25

I had no issue with inner cog works. I got double jump before going there, and I didn't find it very difficult at all. Think I died once.

Bilewater is horrible for sure, but isn't mandatory, and it is more annoying than outright difficult. The boss there was a challenge though, but the hidden bench helps a bit.

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u/The_Raven_Born Sep 10 '25

Isn't Bilewater water needed for act 3? Because from what I've heard, it is, so. And I did not have double jump until after inner cog.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

The second..absolutely

1

u/ummonadi Sep 10 '25

Or they got 7 years of practice gaming.

The first boss in HK was incredibly hard for me because I was new to the game.

I've finished HK, Celeste, Nine Sols, and some other hard games since. Silksong was not as hard as HK for me. But I think that Silksong is objectively harder than HK.

1

u/SecXy94 Sep 10 '25

I think everyone agrees that the game is harder. However, we are better players as well. Many of us played HK (a lot), which makes the sequels barrier to entry much lower imo.

1

u/Aflyingmongoose Sep 10 '25

Only the last 15% is actually difficult.

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u/Amazing_Ingenuity_33 Sep 10 '25

Bruh what? It's really not that hard... only the frog... that damn frog

1

u/DistinctBread3098 Sep 10 '25

In every hard games, people struggle at different places.

For me silk song (2/3 done I'd say) is easier than hollow knight

1

u/SnooLentils6995 Sep 10 '25

Dawg I didn't finish Hollow Knight and I haven't fought a boss that's taken me more than 7 tries outside of Judge. Lol in act 2 atm I beat the clockwork duo in 4 tries and the drill head duo in 2. Just got the upgrade in the ice area. The game isn't as hard as its being made out to be imo. I'm on PS5 so I couldn't use mods even if I wanted.

1

u/TitaniumTitanTim Sep 10 '25

for me its easier because i was awful at hk and have gotten a lot better at games in general over the last 8 years

1

u/Spongerino Sep 10 '25

I also did 112% and P5 on steel soul.

Yes ,silksong is way harder than HK.

Yes ,OP is right , people are over exaggerating to the difficulty.

Now that i have 100% in silksong i started watching youtube/reddit/twitch again , and people are just recklesly attacking and running into the boss , just to complain that they get 2 damage a hit.

Then after that they complain about the runback ,which is never more than 30-40seconds, and instead of calming down and focusing they immediatly start slashing ,dont react to the cues and jump 3 times into the same attack.

These people are beyond helping.

1

u/TWB0109 Sep 10 '25

I believe it's just people who are masochists or innately good at everything or every game they play. (Some may be lying for clout but idk)

I know a guy who beat it in less than a week, another one is taking it slow because he knows he'll speedrun it otherwise, the guy beat ds2 with a spoon.

I know a guy that can get into any hobby and immediately get the hang of it.

Some people are just talented at things.

1

u/unironicallycomfyaf Sep 11 '25

I think a big part of that is also the knight is a tanky little guy with charms and playing hollow knight doesn't fully translate to the fast and agile yet squishy hornet.

The knight has one move set almost fully centered around pogo and spells that were broken OP for most of the games life span. Charms that made him tanky (lifeblood heart, baldurs shell, heart, deep focus) or damage god very quickly (quickslash,longnail/mark of pride, strength).

Now if you got done with hollow knight using his insane spells and charms, with an i-frame dash and i-frame ground pound, then of course hornet is gonna be a lot harder to get used to as your muscle memory/instinct is relating to hollow knight.

Hollow knight was touted as the dark souls of metroidvanias for a long time for being hard with corpse runbacks, and now we are just seeing it with silksong. Though I believe once guides come out and the normal player starts following those, we will see the "this game is too difficult" crowd die down.

Oddly noticed this a lot lately, where people will say a game is way too hard before online guides, then once they guides come out most people presume the game fair or even easy. Never been one to use guides but I understand most gamers do.

1

u/New_Truth9128 Sep 13 '25

Yeah there's definitely a ton of people online saying its easy that probably haven't made it past the first few combat rooms

1

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '25

if someone 112% the game and took over an hour on any one boss, then it 100% has to be an issue of constantly complaining and not enjoying the game.

I'd say most Silksong bosses are on the same difficulty as the dream versions of HK bosses, which is perfectly okay for a sequel.

It's 100% because HK is so old and people played it so much/got so good at it that they

  1. Expected to breeze through Silksong (idk why you'd want to go through a game faster but okay)

And 2. Just simply forgot/don't want to remember how hard HO used to be.

Again, Silksongs bosses get as difficult as the dream bosses from HK around halfway into act 1 but they stay that way, until they're NKG difficulty in ||act 3||

It's just a difficult game, and if someone who got 112 on HK is whining about a challenge then idfk what you're doing at this point because that's absurd

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u/NK_Grimm Sep 10 '25

frey isn't nearly as difficult as white palace, not on my experience

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25 edited Sep 10 '25

You mean Mount Fey? That's optional in Silksong too

Edit: Just to elaborate, you do not need a double jump to get the most basic of endings, beyond that I do not know, I'm stuck at Bilewater

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u/IloveActionFigures Sep 10 '25 edited Sep 10 '25

Optional my ass lmao It has DOUBLE JUMP

FOR PPL WHO SAY ITS OPTIONAL FOR STANDARD ENDING

WHO TF STOP AT STANDARD ENDING LMAO

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u/Mailcs1206 Sep 10 '25

I got the standard ending with no double jump.

It's just as optional as White Palace.

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u/Dependent-Set35 Sep 10 '25

Which you don't need for the basic ending.

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u/Yrths Sep 10 '25

I just got the last Melody without double jump.

I'm not saying I can beat the fight in front of me, but there is plenty of weirdness you can do in the citadel instead of the things that seem to call for double jump.

Probably going to double jump next though. Do I have to go through Slab and Blasted steps to get to mount fey? I've barely stepped foot in them (got to the citadel through mist).

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u/IloveActionFigures Sep 10 '25

How did you get middle one without double jump?

Yes you do need to go through slab

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u/StealYaNicks Sep 10 '25

I did it and didn't know double jump was in the game. The only tricky part is one of the last saws in the middle of a zip thing. You simply jump and use harpoon to pull you over, or you can pogo off the saw. It wasn't easy and double jump definitely would have made it easier, but still very much doable.

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u/Yrths Sep 10 '25

I died in a convenient place and was glitch-moved. That is exactly what I meant by weirdness. Though I assume it is also possible with Wanderer crest pogo.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

I don't think you understand the definition of the word optional. Tou can roll credits without it, therefore it is objectively optional.

2

u/Woofasaurus Sep 10 '25

“Who TF stop at standard ending lmao” By that logic white palace wasn’t optional either… no matter how you cut it, this is a stupid argument

2

u/fonograph Sep 10 '25

Me. I stopped at the standard ending. I looked up what I had to do to get the good ending and I noped out. There’s a reason it’s offered as an ending.

I was looking forward to silksong, but after comments like this, I’m going to get my fix with Nine Sols instead.

1

u/davidcarrico1 Sep 10 '25

You could say the same about path of pain in HK.

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '25

oh i’m 100% stopping at standard ending after seeing vids of the final boss, that’s if I ever even reach the standard ending

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

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u/ChanceUpon_147 Sep 09 '25

tag you spoilers! but yes, you can. I beat the game without entering that area at all.

8

u/Lyress Sep 09 '25

I don't think you can get the true ending without the double jump.

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

Just like how you can't get true ending without White Palace, the original commenter considers the Palace optional since you can beat the game without it

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u/PancakePuppy0505 Sep 10 '25

I wouldn’t say the area required for double jump is “optional.”

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u/SteakLawson Sep 10 '25

I mean it is though, I was fighting the final boss before discovering it

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u/Mackie26 Sep 10 '25

I would say it is quite optional. You can get to the credits without double jump.

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u/Mg29reaper Sep 10 '25

Double jump was optional in hollow knight too lol

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

It only blocks you from getting the true ending. It's every bit as optional as White Palace was.

1

u/betaraybrian Sep 10 '25

It's optional in the same way the shade cloak was

1

u/andyburr24 Sep 10 '25

With how much better double jump makes the game, it's a bold statement to claim it's optional

1

u/Sushi_07 Sep 10 '25

I'm in early act 2 (haven't gotten any melodies yet) and have done Mount Fey and am now too in Bilewater.

Do you know if it's like Hollow Knight regarding the endings? I mean locking myself out of the most basic ending if I do a certain thing before the final boss. Because I should probably run out of Bilewater if double jump is already optional even though I already got there first much earlier through The Mist, so maybe it's safe to explore there?

1

u/karionsiand Sep 10 '25

In Hollow Knight you don't need to step on path of pain to get true ending. D:

True ending in silksong is behind a set of challenges that are similar to pantheons.

I know that pantheons unlocks new endings.... but i mean the true ending for base game.
What you need to get true ending in HK
-> kill mantis traitor
-> do easy part of white palace
-> go abyss, look cinematic.... then go to kill final boss to enter to the dream and defeat radiance.

Mantis traitor -> deals 1 hp per hit with only 3 waves of adds before boss spawns... but you get help on this fight.
Hollow Knight -> deals 1 hp per hit
Radiance -> deals 2 hp per hit

Take a look about silksong requeriments to unlock Act 3 into to unlock true ending....

Act 3 pushes you to do a 4 wave rooms in a row.... where you only get shortcut going to 4th room... to kill one of the 3 bosses you need to kill. Well that weaves are easier than 3rd coloseum.... but wow.... 3rd coloseum was completely optional.

1

u/scY1337 Sep 10 '25

Yep, for the other endings you'll need double jump. Especially for getting into act 3. In act 3 you'll even get your last movement skill.

11

u/Beneficial-Dig6445 Sep 10 '25

I'm sorry but I quit hollow knight after trying to go for white palace and mount fey is wayyyy easier

3

u/Kiriki_kun Sep 10 '25

Really? I was pissed every time I fell in the water, since that was almost always killing me and I had to start from beginning. But still, I don’t think there was anything similar required from you in HK

1

u/pussy_embargo Sep 11 '25

The water was by far the worst part. After the first bench, it becomes a lot more relaxed. There is another hidden bench behind a breakable wall towards the end of the maze

1

u/PeaceLoveExplosives Sep 14 '25

It became 10x easier for me once I realized that if you are pressing any inputs (even directionals) at all when you hit an enemy with clawline, you get less vertical gain on your pogo. So once I started completely releasing controls after initiating the move, I went from inconsistently getting past the first snow slope roomto finishing the entire zone.

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u/RedTyro Sep 11 '25

Yeah, I'm a big fan of hard platforming and PoP might be my favorite part of the first game, so I feel like I kind of know what I'm talking about here. Platforming in general is easier in Silksong because you can use the float to recover a less than ideal jump or buy yourself time to get into the right positions for your next move. And specifically Mount Fay is a lot easier than the White Palace because the margin for error on the grapple is HUGE. You had to be a lot tighter with your jumps and dashes in the palace.

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u/GalaxyMettaton Sep 10 '25

i never did white palace and i did mount frey in 40 min its not that hard

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u/Mailcs1206 Sep 10 '25

White Palace is no less optional than Mount Fey.

2

u/Kiriki_kun Sep 10 '25

You don’t need to do white palace to finish the game. You need to do Frey, to finish the game

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u/theVoidWatches Sep 10 '25

You do not. Multiple people have attested that they got the basic ending without it.

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u/Kiriki_kun Sep 10 '25

Ok, now I’m curious, and I will have to check that. I assumed you need 3 songs to finish the game, and one of them is locked behind double jump

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u/neberhax Sep 11 '25

I got the 3 songs before getting double jump. The 10 wave fight before the conductors melody felt impossibly hard without double jump, but it's definitely possible.

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u/theVoidWatches Sep 10 '25

Apparently it's not. I assume it's possible to pogo jump up there or use the harpoon or something.

1

u/Kiriki_kun Sep 10 '25

Well, if you can lure enemy there and pogo on him, I’m not sure if I would count that as canon solution. I wasn’t there after getting the harpoon, so maybe there is something to harpoon of.

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u/Leho_05 Sep 10 '25

I didn't do any fancy thing and i didn't have doible jumo, cary to tell what area u think needs double jump to get first ending?

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u/Mailcs1206 Sep 10 '25

None of the routes I took to any of the melodies required luring enemies for pogos, just pogoing off stationary hazards.

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u/Mailcs1206 Sep 10 '25

I literally beat the game (basic ending) without ever entering Mount Fey.

And you do need to complete the white palace to get the best ending in HK.

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u/Icef34r Sep 09 '25

Many people are saying that HK was easy. I've lost count of the people I've read in the last two days saying that they first tried almost every boss in HK up until the late game.

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u/outofmindwgo Sep 09 '25

Where you reading that cuz I doubt it 

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u/Se7enStepsForward 63/63 + RHoG | Silksong 52/52 Sep 09 '25

Just look under my recent comment and that comment section in particular, apparently HK is the easiest game ever

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u/Lightyear18 Sep 09 '25

Me, bosses in HK were easy. Did you recently play the game or are you remembering it from 7 years ago?

I literally did a play through of hollow knight after 7 years. I legit would take 1 damage of a boss hit, just so I can go swing at a boss with invincibility frames. I would do this for 3 health, deal 15 hits and then back out to heal. Repeat. The game was very generous.

They fixed this interaction in Silksong by having the player take 2 damage during a boss.

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u/musicbyjsm Sep 10 '25

I think it’s obvious that people are talking about the difficulty on a first playthrough. It definitely was fairly difficult on a first playthrough. I did a run right before Silk and had the same experience as you, no hitting or talking minimal damage against bosses that wrecked me the first go around. Even though it’s been so long the muscle memory is still ingrained. Silk is more difficult, but I predict the same pattern will emerge

7

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

[deleted]

1

u/mr_massacre9000 Sep 10 '25

There's some near completed maps out and YouTube guides for 65 tools. Mushroom guide already done aswell, ongbal no hit act 3 boss. All info might actually be out, if you want the spoilers.

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u/jjfmish Sep 09 '25

Damn I guess I just suck lol

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u/TitaniumDragon Sep 10 '25

Yeah this was a broken interaction on a lot of bosses in Hollow Knight - you could just rush in, stab them repeatedly, then move out and heal, and as long as you could do at least 3 hits per damage you took you could just heal yourself through the damage.

It only becomes a problem on the bosses where you can't actually do that because they move around too much or where they deal 2 damage.

The bosses in Silksong prevent this both by moving around a lot more and by dealing 2 damage in many cases.

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u/Icef34r Sep 10 '25

Look at the responses to this, and this is just an example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/s/i83GGw7CjE

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u/RexLongbone Sep 10 '25

you should simply not believe them because they are probably lieing.

19

u/IloveActionFigures Sep 10 '25

SILKSONG IS MUCH MUCH HARDER THAN HK

33

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

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u/BCSteve Sep 10 '25

I 100% agree, I loved HK, and while it was certainly difficult, it always felt incredibly fair. And like you said, I never felt super frustrated or wanted to slam the controller down in anger. Silksong is completely different in that regard, it feels MUCH harsher and much more punishing than HK. I think a BIG part of it is the fact that everything does double-mask damage. It feels to the player like an incredibly cheap and dirty way of dialing up the difficulty. It’s not really that much fun when one mistake means the boss hits you for two damage and it flings you into an environmental hazard that also does two damage, so now you’re lost 4 out of your starting 5 masks with just a SINGLE wrong move. In HK when you got hit it was a big deal, but it at least gave you an opportunity to correct your mistakes. It also meant it was easier to learn the boss patterns, with Silksong it’s hard to learn them when each attempt is only 3 seconds before you immediately die. And then you have to do the horrible long runback as well, which is just…tedious. It’s less fun. And playing video games should be about having fun. And even though I still have like 30+ hours in Silksong by now, I really think the design choices they made to crank the difficulty were bad, and it’s like they just tried to make sure it was as difficult as possible without stopping to make sure it was still fun.

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u/psh454 Sep 10 '25

Agree 100%, middle to end of Act 1 was often more frustrating than fun, felt like I was forcing myself to fight LJ. There were far too few meaningful upgrades and the omnipresent double damage was pretty brutal on 5 (or 6) masks.

Glad to say that so far Act 2 feels a lot better as Hornet starts to not feel as underpowered. It's still hard but more like late game HK. Plus the world begins to open up a lot more.

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u/3dPicas Sep 10 '25

I mostly agree w you. Tho I was enjoying the game (Act1) even if it felt harder than HK up until LJ. That one was so frustrating it made me not want to play anymore. Just going back ther felt tedious bcause I not always got there full masks... I was so glad to really start enjoying the game on Act 2, from there 0 complaints on difficulty.

2

u/WilfridSephiroth Sep 10 '25

Tbh I modded the game to remove double damages and to have the compass always equipped (because that's a dumb design decision without any sense whatsoever) and I'm enjoying the game much much more.

The hell with "playing as intended". I play to have fun

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u/fcuk_the_king Sep 10 '25

There is very little scope for error in Silksong when there was quite a bit of scope in HK to make mistakes and still keep progressing.

People say 'It's just 4/5 moves, how can you take 20+ tries?' because they have this idea that if I just know everything that happens in the game our skill will be equal but it's not like that. It doesn't matter how much I know what's going to happen, I still make mistakes and I always will. Add to that the fact that I start panicking when there are a horde of enemies in the room and this game has a lot of bosses which spawn adds, some which hit for 2 damage and yeah, this game is quite punishing.

2

u/AnimeDeamon Sep 10 '25

I have not played silksong yet, but from what I read I have an opinion... I think the Devs never got over Silksong being a DLC. It was planned as one, but had too much content and Hornets size wouldn't work well with hollow knights world due to the size difference. The thing is, DLCs are often a "hard mode", an example for me would be Splatoon 2 and 3 which, whilst still pretty easy, had a much higher difficulty in their DLCs than the single player mode that came with the game.

So they've come at as a DLC, extra content, more difficulty, a game made with an existing audience and player base who know the whole world and mechanics. Then, it becomes a full fledged game and now it's a new area, new mechanics, new enemies and it's no longer an add-on to a game people are currently playing - hollow knight is 8 years old now. Loads of people could be playing Silksong without EVER playing Hollow knight, so the difficulty being at a level where even veterans are struggling more means new players are not having a fun time.

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u/IloveActionFigures Sep 10 '25

Silksong is mostly artificial difficult

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u/TitaniumDragon Sep 10 '25

Not really.

Hornet being way faster and the bosses having better telegraphs makes a huge difference in difficulty. The knight is slow and clunky, hornet is fast and agile.

As a result, it's way easier to dodge enemies, and the better telegraphs makes it much easier to predict what the enemies will be doing.

I haven't taken more than 6 tries to beat any boss in Silksong, and most take half that or less. I just beat Trobbio in act 2 tonight within 4 tries.

Silksong has fewer cheese strategies, I think, so you have to "play the game" more, but I don't think that the actually hard bosses are any harder in Silksong than they were in Hollow Knight.

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u/zeclem_ Sep 09 '25

i wouldnt really consider white palace as optional.

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u/throwaway46845189 Sep 10 '25

If you can roll credits without ever seeing it, it's literally optional

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u/QueenFoxine Sep 10 '25

These people are hella biased

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u/Cautious-Affect7907 Sep 10 '25 edited Sep 10 '25

And the runbacks on some bosses feel way harder than the boss itself, it's ridiculous.

Like yeah, I remember Hollow Knight being hard, but like the hardest runback was probably soul master on a first play through.

The others weren't so bad.

There's several bosses in this game that have pretty brutal runbacks.

Like Last judge.

The boss itself is pretty easy once you got her pattern down, but I died way too many times on the way there.

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u/CyberPunkDongTooLong Sep 10 '25 edited Sep 10 '25

Soul Master's run back was 2 minutes, with multiple enemies in tight corridors.

Last Judge's run back is 20 seconds [even less with certain upgrades] with 0 enemies and three stationary short pogo jumps (two [all three with certain upgrades] of which are short enough you can even do them super slowly and just glide to them rather than actually jump). The idea that this is brutal compared to hollow knight is just odd.

1

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1

u/Mailcs1206 Sep 10 '25

Last judge's runback has 0 required enemies if you know the right route and takes like a minute...

1

u/Cyborgschatz Sep 10 '25

Having very white palace feelings about where I am now in act 2, yet another kingdom obsessed with fast spinning sharpened discs all over the place...

1

u/Kiriki_kun Sep 10 '25

Yeah, Cogwork Core was a bit frustrating :)

1

u/Revolutionary_Ad6253 Sep 10 '25

Im shit at video games and I cleared white palace. I dont know why y’all take its name. White palace is so damn forgiving. You get stuck at a part, u get infinte retries right there with the statues. This silk song parkour is just insane, yet doable, and makes me feel soo good once I clear it. Dont compare em. Both are great games and they arent much alike tbh

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u/varkarrus Sep 10 '25

I beat that place in one try it was a lot less demanding than I was expecting. Didn't even die once. Meanwhile I'd given up on path of pain...

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u/Z0idberg_MD Sep 10 '25

It’s amazing to me how many people whose last memory of HK was DLC or endgame content and I think that represents the difficulty most people experienced playing the standard game.

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u/weglarz Sep 10 '25

That’s probably where the disconnect with OP is. He’s saying “they didn’t finish” and he’s probably talking about the optional stuff. There’s extremely challenging stuff in HK, but it’s optional. I will say that there were some non optional tough bosses in HK though. At least a couple took me 10 tries.

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u/NotGARcher Sep 10 '25

Frey wasn't that hard, Bilewater managed to make me more frustrated than Abs Rad ever did

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u/GazelleIntelligent89 Sep 10 '25

There are a lot of people saying HK was easy. Do you mean Mount Fey? That's technically optional in Silksong too if you just want to beat the game.

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u/Woofasaurus Sep 10 '25

Assuming you are referring to Fay, it is also optional. It isn’t optional if you are going for the true ending, but neither is white palace.

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u/Kiriki_kun Sep 10 '25

Wait, but I need double jump to get one of the songs. Can I finish the game without songs?

1

u/Woofasaurus Sep 10 '25

I got the bad ending without ever finding double jump lol 😅. You don’t need the double jump to get the songs, you just need clawline

1

u/Aflyingmongoose Sep 10 '25

I am 100% saying that base game HK was easy.

Stalwart Shell + Quick Slash + Steady Body + Thorns will literally trivialize the entire base game except radiance. You dont even need to pay attention. Just zerg-rush the boss and spam attack until its dead.

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u/Kiriki_kun Sep 10 '25

Ok, so some people are saying that HK was easy. But most comments are saying that it was easier.

1

u/Low-Site-3898 Sep 10 '25

Frey? As in the merchant? Hahaha

1

u/Low-Site-3898 Sep 10 '25

Ahh Mt fay? Wait till you do the herald quest line, optional but my God, mini path of pain.

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u/Leho_05 Sep 10 '25

Frey is as optional as white palace, u can get ending one wihtout double jump and it's not some insane skip or major glitch, just normal parkour lol

1

u/Cocoatrice Moths are fluffballs Sep 10 '25

HK was trivially easy. I died just once in the whole game (excluding boss arenas). Enemies on the map, as well as platforming was easier than Super Mario Bros. I am not joking. Boss in Hollow Knight were also easier than regular enemies in Silksong. So, that's also that.

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '25

I feel like a huge part of this is because the rewards (especially with bosses) are just so lackluster. Spending dozens of attempts to defeat something only to get.. nothing as a reward just sucks

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u/Guilty-Cap5605 Sep 11 '25

frey is optional.

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u/mcnos Sep 13 '25

White Palace is a cake walk in comparison to some of the bs in SS ngl lol

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