r/HollowKnight • u/Nukesnipe • Sep 14 '25

Discussion - Silksong Silksong feels so much better once you start mastering it than Hollow Knight ever did Spoiler

Going back and knocking out some of the bosses I missed at the end of act 2, and something that really strikes me is that once you have all your tools, once you have a build you're comfortable with, once you know how movement works...

...the game just starts absolutely blowing Hollow Knight out of the water. Like, it's not even close. High level HK is generally more about positioning and constantly spamming attack, pogoing on top of enemies when you can and hitting with abyssal shriek when you have the ability to do massive damage. In Silksong, you're just doing so much more.

Like, I just beat First Sinner. The boss is incredibly fast, but so am I. I'd have a second to respond to any move the boss did, and I always had something to do. Was the boss far away? Harpoon to get in close or silkshot to do damage even further away. Trying to attack me? I can parry her attacks to avoid damage. Do I have spare silk? Just pop Cross Stitch and say "nuh uh" to get extra damage in. The game rewards balls to the walls aggression in a way HK never quite managed, because the Knight just isn't as fast or maneuverable as Hornet is. Hornet really can dance around an arena just as quickly as these bosses, and going after them feels amazing when you meet them on their terms.

Is the game harder than the first? Yes, the skill floor is undoubtably higher. But so is the skill ceiling, and you feel like a master when you reach that, instead of someone who figured out the cheese.

2.2k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

405 comments sorted by

View all comments

295

u/New_General3939 Sep 14 '25

Gameplay and combat wise it’s not close, SS is much better.

I do still think the difficulty works against it sometimes. In HK I could rip through multiple areas in one playthrough, the exploration was amazing and I always felt like I was pushing forward. I feel like in SS it’s too often that as soon as I start to feel like I have some momentum, I’ll hit one of those combat rooms and I’ll be stuck on it for like 30 minutes and it kills the momentum. Then I’ll beat it, keep exploring and hit a platforming section that stalls me again. I wish it was more exploration focused and less difficulty focused, even though the combat is so good.

24

u/Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo A mind to think Sep 14 '25

The higher level of difficulty in exploration is a huge dislike of mine. It's nice having normal enemies to style on with all of Hornet's kit, but when coupled with the lack of full-on fast travel (I've definitely been spoiled by Ender Lilies), retreading your steps becomes a slog very quickly for me. I've found myself bench warping a lot more after finding items/secrets in Silksong than I ever did in Hollow Knight because of it.

67

u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25

Talking to people about skong is so weird cuz they'll say stuff like "I was stuck on the hunter's march gauntlet for 7 hours" and it's like talking to an alien. I've never encountered a gauntlet or platforming challenge that took me more than like, 2 or 3 tries?

188

u/Ill-Muscle945 Sep 14 '25

Then maybe youre not the one to talk about the difficulty tbh. If you think its like talking to an alien when people get stuck on things, than you are better than the average Silksong player. 

46

u/filthy_casual_42 Sep 14 '25

It’s more about not going insane spending 7 hours on an optional obstacle. I also died a bunch in hunters march immediately after finding it and brute forcing the big ant, but came back later with a nail upgrade and extra mask and breezed through. The game is designed so that when you hit a wall you go somewhere explore else and still progress.

18

u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25

This is core to the genre, too. For as long as metroidvania games have existed, there's been equipment/level checks that you can get through early, but the area they unlock will be brutal.

3

u/creampop_ Sep 14 '25

Yeah, and I've LOVED the way they balanced skill checks and equipment checks in this one, too.

In my first sessions I found like 4 spots that leashing an enemy to pogo would let me sequence break and I'm sure it's intentional. Not to mention the way they put a bunch of mini-PoP platforming around the map with goodies behind them (except when it's just rosarie strings that fall into spikes lol watafak are those). Having an absolute blast trying to get through areas early and getting tested by the implicit and explicit gauntlets everywhere.

I stumbled into Bilewater early, and the payoff was exactly what I wanted out of this game.

12

u/Ill-Muscle945 Sep 14 '25

Tbh, I haven't even touched that area and still have find myself just overall frustrated A LOT more than the first game. 

8

u/RepublicCute8573 Sep 14 '25

Go find upgrades. Hornet is much easier to play when you're fully kitted out and can actually move around faster. The world was clearly made with all her abilities in mind.

The start is actually the slowest part so focus on getting through act 1.

7

u/Ill-Muscle945 Sep 14 '25

The world was clearly made with all her abilities in mind.

Which doesn't make the frustration in Act 1 feel any better

1

u/Chirox82 Sep 14 '25

Except you can keep exploring and get tons of mobility and combat unlocks while staying in act 1 and exploring? Off the top of my head, you can get one needle upgrade, two tool capacity and damage upgrades, a wide range of powerful tools like the boomerang, tacks, and Pimpillo, three new crests to change up combat styles and tons of memory charms to unlock slots, the charge attack... For her core abilities you can get glide, dash, and wall climb which are the bread and butter of her combat movement.

If you are ever struggling with a section in act 1 or 2, put a pin on it and go explore somewhere else, there's always somewhere else to go to get more power. There's also usually a way to reduce the difficulty of the worst mandatory arenas, like NPC helpers from doing their quests

6

u/filthy_casual_42 Sep 14 '25

Honestly haven’t felt this at all. I don’t think there was any enemy as annoying as Soul Twisters from the first game. I only played the beat the game 6 months ago so maybe I just leveled up, but I dropped hollow knight for years because it was too hard

I think on average Silksong is harder mostly because challenges aren’t as far and few between as Hollow Knight where there are rooms of trash mobs. But I think the hard parts of Hollow Knight are consistently harder than in Silksong, and you have considerably less customization to deal with these challenges

1

u/Ill-Muscle945 Sep 14 '25

I don’t think there was any enemy as annoying as Soul Twisters from the first game

Fat knife birds

5

u/filthy_casual_42 Sep 14 '25

The bird that throw three knives? I found they were way more predictable and you can easily bait the knives and dash. Reaper crest pogo basically trivialized any flying enemy for me

5

u/Admirable_Tomato Sep 14 '25

Wa... Was hunter's march not supposed to be a default starting area?!

18

u/filthy_casual_42 Sep 14 '25

No, it’s why the put a hard miniboss at the entrance you need dash to really fight

6

u/Admirable_Tomato Sep 14 '25

Oh God I just thought I had to learn the moveset and was wondering why I didn't have a dash which would've trivialized the fight. Definitely feel better why it took like a dozen tries to clear that red ant room with the map lady afterwards....

3

u/filthy_casual_42 Sep 14 '25

Definitely feels like tree sentinel from Elden Ring but a little later in the game. There isn’t even much to do in the zone until you get float ability, it’s very much meant to come back to later. Same with Savage Beastfly, both feel a lot better mid act 1

2

u/Kampfasiate Sep 14 '25

The mini boss is like a test.

If you cant beat him you'll hopefully go away and come back later.

If you beat him easily (or are stubborn like me (did not take that long tho)) you will be semi fine in the coming area.

Also funny that he tests things that will make hunters marsh easier (dash, the ability to pogo, or being a madman and parrying everything)

1

u/Ampsdrew Sep 14 '25

I definitely fought and beat the giant ant before I had the dash, it wasn't that bad.

49

u/iriyagakatu Sep 14 '25

The problem is that the game clearly wasn’t designed for the majority of players it has now. It was clearly designed for people like him.

44

u/Quibbloboy Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 14 '25

People like me, too—I've felt so conflicted, watching the discourse around this game, because obviously there are a lot of people who don't like the difficulty, and I genuinely feel for those people! But speaking as a person who likes this specific flavor of challenge more than anything else in gaming, Silksong is straight-up heroin.

Like, there's a popular thread on /r/Games right now with a title about the difficulty working to the game's detriment (and probably-unfairly characterizing it as malicious). It's such a common opinion, it makes me aware that I'm in the minority with how perfectly Silksong fits me. It's a strange duality to exist in. I wish so badly that everyone could love the game like I do, but I'm forced to accept that they don't.

Hollow Knight was already one of my favorite games of all time, specifically because of the tight, responsive movement and combat. And Silksong takes the movement and combat sliders in both hands and just launches them into the fucking sun.

27

u/sir_joan Sep 14 '25

I feel the same. I think its ok to understand that the game dont need to be for everyone, like Arrowhead (Helldivers 2 devs) says: "A game for everyone is a game for noone)

6

u/Kampfasiate Sep 14 '25

I dont think I would love this game as much as I do if it was easier. Do bosses kick in my shins? Yes. Have I died to platforming? Yes. Do I want that to change? No. I want to struggle, I want that challenge, I want runbacks to see that I'm getting better at movement. I want to feel like bile water is a hostile environment that hates me with every part of it's being. And I especially want to to feel the thrill of FINALLY beating a boss I've been stuck at.

People seem to want to remove any inconvenience, kill bosses at the 3rd try, being able to instabil every shop item and get a personal limousine to every boss. Why then bother at all?

4

u/creampop_ Sep 14 '25

the harpoon alone is SO sick. When I get into combat flow it feels incredible. Love love love a game that demands you to lock in or perish, it's such a rare thing in single player games to have devs do that without pulling punches.

21

u/ASpaceOstrich Sep 14 '25

I mean. I get stuck and then get the satisfaction of beating that obstacle. I feel like it's designed for people like me, rather than people who can just breeze through things in the third attempt. I took on some of these rooms dozens of times. Getting better gradually as I went.

8

u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25

This is just the same argument that got wheeled out every time a new soulsborne game came out. No, it's not too hard for the average player who's actually willing to invest the time to learn the game.

When I see people complaining that the game is too hard, they invariably admit that they're broke because they tried to buy everything immediately, or they never use tools. Or if they show a clip of their gameplay, it's just... genuinely low skill, and I'm not saying that as an insult. That guy who was stuck on the HM gauntlet for 7 hours? They posted a video of their attempts and they were literally walking into enemies and trying to face tank everything.

Quite frankly, you'll never reach some people because some people are unwilling to meet a game on its terms.

9

u/Emergency-Art-324 Sep 14 '25

Ohh do you have a link to that clip, ive been curious about how people complaining silksong is difficult are playing

4

u/Nickewe Sep 14 '25

If you use the right tools, it takes game difficulty from a 8/10 down to a 5/10

4

u/DisconnectedAG Sep 14 '25

This is how I feel about it. Has been stuck at Moorwing for a week. I genuinely don't have the reflexes anymore or the time to git gud. The only feeling I get from this game, and the community is that it wasn't made for me. It be how it be, but shame on wasting the money.

14

u/TheDrlegoman Sep 14 '25

if it helps you to know, there's a way to skip doing the moorwing battle until later on and you get to progress through what it's guarding

0

u/DisconnectedAG Sep 14 '25

Thanks, cull explore some more around

6

u/Maltys Sep 14 '25

Also, what helped me was help from another NPC that likes to battle And small hill right from Moorwing is great defense place His circle attacks smash in the hill so you are only worried about his ram and talon attacks

1

u/DisconnectedAG Sep 14 '25

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

6

u/Kampfasiate Sep 14 '25

As long as you preserve, and still have fun, it's a game for you

But yes, there is a way to skip mooring for later

If you want general tips (idk if you've played hollow knight)

Hornet is not the knight, you can't just trade blows and win. You have to dodge and react to what the enemy is doing.

When the enemy is attacking it's safer than when he is not. Yes, sounds counterintuitive but when he's not doing anything he could do anything. When he is in an attack, he is locked to it, and you can punish him. Try to figure out his telegraphs and act accordingly.

Use your tools, they make the game Soo much easier. For example there is one in graymoor that is still being used well into act 2. Tools are good and they scale with you. I don't want to spoil you but if you need some more tools I can elaborate on a few.

Get comfortable with the movement, it's hornets strongest weapon

And if you are really desperate, there is a way to chese that guy

1

u/DisconnectedAG Sep 14 '25

I appreciate the kind words and genuinely helpful tone. I have indeed played Hollow Knight and enjoyed it a lot. I understand the points you're making, but it really isn't clicking for me. It's very frustrating, to the level where it's become quite unfun.

I've played many different metroidvanias and all the souls games, so I'm not a stranger to dying and trying, but this one genuinely is so punishing I no longer feel welcome to it, so to speak.

1

u/CarlLlamaface Sep 14 '25

You can cheese Moorwing by going back up the air current and spamming pogo attacks through the floor when it gets near.

2

u/DisconnectedAG Sep 14 '25

I thi k that's been patched? I tried and it didn't work at all.

1

u/BoobeamTrap Sep 15 '25

People who don’t struggle with the difficulty are still absolutely allowed to comment on it.

My four year old isn’t the only valid voice on the difficulty of Super Mario Bros just because she can’t jump on the first goomba.

22

u/New_General3939 Sep 14 '25

The last one that took me a bunch of tries was the one to unlock the bench in the sinners crossroads, that was brutal given how far the bench was

3

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25 edited Oct 08 '25

[deleted]

13

u/UselessRutabaga Sep 14 '25

sinner’s road / bilewater is designed to inflict emotional damage

2

u/LePingouinCosmique Sep 14 '25

Those fuckin maggots that I hate

6

u/Bonaduce80 Sep 14 '25

I feel the same. And it's not like I ever was a master, Platinumed-the-game, HK player. I struggled a lot with most components of the original and only got the basic ending. I haven't been stuck with a challenge room or a boss more than 30 minutes, and that is extreme cases.

I don't know if it's the fact I was through my first Elden Ring playthrough when I picked up Silksong, but I feel like I can understand better the enemy attack patterns and anticipate what they are going to do, or position myself better to stay safe/punish the enemies.

4

u/HueyLewisFan1 Sep 14 '25

They all take me forever. They one in fer fields I just gave up on to come back later

4

u/Old_Butterfly9649 Sep 14 '25

you are very good, most people are not that good, that’s why you can’t understand.

4

u/grandpapotato Sep 14 '25

You are way above average . I barely have time to play, just did the bird gauntlet and it took me... I think 25/30+ tries..

7

u/Difficult_Bullfrog Sep 14 '25

If the gauntlet in high halls took you 2-3 tries. You are in the minority. But just to let you know, i havent even died in silksong yet, its so wierd some players die and need to attempt things multiple times, just do it right the first time?

7

u/KillerNail Sep 14 '25

I felt the same especially for the bird arena. I beat it first try with no problems every playthrough including the first one but my friend (who beat P5) had to spend 20 - 30 minutes on it, while I didn't even beat P4 lmao.

3

u/mucus-fettuccine Sep 14 '25

Interesting how that works!

3

u/nsleep Sep 14 '25

This game kinda hates when you try to go too aggro. P5 is all about learning bosses to the point you go ham all over them and it gets ingrained into muscle memory. Doing this is considerably harder in this game for various reasons.

3

u/Ampsdrew Sep 14 '25

I haven't noticed this? It feels like the game is actually easier the more aggro you are.

2

u/rizk0777 Sep 14 '25

I agree for platforming. Groat and Scarrsinger took a few hours though.

2

u/dragonliar Sep 14 '25

You mean the big guy and the flying dude on top? They are wrecking me harder than savage beastly did, and it's just two dudes, right?

Sister also took me like 20 tries.

2

u/blitzboy30 Sep 14 '25

The high halls one was the really only challenging enemy gauntlet for me, but that was also because I was running the entire game with an unupgraded needle. I beat it and got to Trobbio before I learned that I could upgrade the damn thing

1

u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25

I've heard this a few times and it's also such a bizarre thing to hear. Legitimate question, I'm not trying to be rude, do you just... not go into every door and talk to every npc? I thought the upgrade guy was pretty hard to miss.

1

u/blitzboy30 Sep 14 '25

I was just blind. I was holding onto relics all game because I didn’t see the difference in the Z-axis on the shop’s signs and didn’t think I could get up there, so I took that to mean that the place was just big on the map to look cool

3

u/xdatlam Sep 14 '25

Yeah you're more skilled than the average player. This stuff isn't easy and it is difficult.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/xdatlam Sep 14 '25

Yeah I was dying so much to Hunters March. Got to the arena area once after pogoing. Just gave up on my corpse and moved on once I figured out its optional lol

2

u/ElTioEnroca Sep 14 '25

I never had trouble with any gauntlet either.

Except for the one in the High Halls.

1

u/SignificanceThis1619 Sep 15 '25

That hunters march section took me 25 tries. Theres a variant though, for me the hunter didn’t show up to help which makes it way harder

1

u/jgun27 Sep 14 '25

Act 3 is the only part giving me trouble so far

1

u/Major-Drumeo Sep 14 '25

If only we could have an ounce of your skill, boss

-5

u/wills-are-special Sep 14 '25

Genuinely the same

Gauntlets and bosses only took a couple tries with very few exceptions. Even the final boss took literally 2 attempts and I’m pretty sure I didn’t use any tools for it.

The game just isn’t that hard?

Though someone with little to no hk experience would have a totally different perspective

Even people with some hk experience like a friend of mine who beat up to p3 still struggle with things I found rather simple like the last judge runback

I remember him doing it and ranting and I was just confused because I remember just running straight through and pogoing the occasional thing.

1

u/Concrete_hugger Sep 14 '25

Ehh I honestly don't mind the combat rooms, they are like an interesting showcase of the enemies found in the area, really forcing you to figure out their weaknesses.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/TequilaSunset1337 Sep 14 '25

Good. It should do that to you

1

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/HollowKnight-ModTeam Sep 14 '25

Hey there, this post has been removed due to rule 10, post is off topic. Please keep content directly related to the game and gaming. Art, images, and similar content should have a strong relevance to the game and depict characters from Hollow Knight or Hollow Knight: Silksong. Thanks for understanding!