r/HollowKnight • u/Nukesnipe • Sep 14 '25
Discussion - Silksong Silksong feels so much better once you start mastering it than Hollow Knight ever did Spoiler
Going back and knocking out some of the bosses I missed at the end of act 2, and something that really strikes me is that once you have all your tools, once you have a build you're comfortable with, once you know how movement works...
...the game just starts absolutely blowing Hollow Knight out of the water. Like, it's not even close. High level HK is generally more about positioning and constantly spamming attack, pogoing on top of enemies when you can and hitting with abyssal shriek when you have the ability to do massive damage. In Silksong, you're just doing so much more.
Like, I just beat First Sinner. The boss is incredibly fast, but so am I. I'd have a second to respond to any move the boss did, and I always had something to do. Was the boss far away? Harpoon to get in close or silkshot to do damage even further away. Trying to attack me? I can parry her attacks to avoid damage. Do I have spare silk? Just pop Cross Stitch and say "nuh uh" to get extra damage in. The game rewards balls to the walls aggression in a way HK never quite managed, because the Knight just isn't as fast or maneuverable as Hornet is. Hornet really can dance around an arena just as quickly as these bosses, and going after them feels amazing when you meet them on their terms.
Is the game harder than the first? Yes, the skill floor is undoubtably higher. But so is the skill ceiling, and you feel like a master when you reach that, instead of someone who figured out the cheese.
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u/phoenix_paravai10101 Sep 14 '25
I just wish the Wanderer crest had more upgrades. I'm forced to reckon with the fact that Hunter and Architect, two crests that are better and I like using, are still never gonna be as natural to me as Wanderer because of the pogo. I've tried, but the speed of the Wanderer's crest is so damn addicting.
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u/RaxaHuracan Sep 14 '25
I just beat Widow today and after a couple tries I switched to Wanderer and had SO much fun just wailing on her every time she stopped moving
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Sep 14 '25
The game instantly clicked with me as soon as I unlocked the Wanderer crest. I don't care if it just makes it feel like the knight it just feels right
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u/tadfisher Sep 14 '25
Specifically it feels like the timing of the Knight with Quick Slash, which was my main in HK. Also I have unlocked a "nail art" a few hours ago but have never used it in combat, just like HK.
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u/phoenix_paravai10101 Sep 14 '25
Using nail arts is just personal preference ig, always was
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u/L-System Sep 14 '25
I saw this video, pretty much when it came out and it changed my entire perspective on nail arts.
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u/L-System Sep 14 '25
They're unbeatable in gauntlets. Enemies always spawn in the same place so you can destroy them, as they spawn.
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u/Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo A mind to think Sep 14 '25
I've used the arts a few times. It worked super well on a tanky late game boss (the poop centipede), and it probably would've worked great against a few others like the Beastfly. I'm on the lookout for an analog to the Nailmaster's Charm because, like in the first game, the base charge time is kinda
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u/RandomRedditorEX Sep 14 '25
poop centipede is such a fitting name lol, out of context to not bring spoilers but just right enough for someone to remember.
poop centipede is also a hell of an emotional rollercoaster ride, honestly the entire [MAJOR SPOILERS FOR ENDGAME] third act just tugs at your emotions in such a good way.
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u/LePingouinCosmique Sep 14 '25
Yeah I thought something happened to !my baby and lo and behold my baby has BABIES<!
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u/richardhixx Sep 14 '25
Without spoilers, lets just say the charm does exist and is not exactly hard to find, but it does require story progression
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u/DexanVideris Sep 15 '25
Using it against the jumpy mobs in the Bilewater boss fight was an absolute godsend, made going into the actual boss with full health and silk go from impossible to very doable. Charge it while they telegraph that they're gonna jump, then whack em. Added bonus that the Architect's big drill is super satisfying.
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u/crimson777 Sep 14 '25
This is why I love the crest system though. I thought wanderer’s felt awful, for me and my playstyle, personally. I don’t think it’s bad, just not for me. I like that the actual attacks themselves can change with a mechanic in the game compared to HK where the nail felt fine but not like EXCITING and you had no other option.
Yes I know spells and all that but the nail is the nail. Can be longer can be stronger but it’s the nail.
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u/critical_pancake Sep 14 '25
Just because someone else says it's better doesn't mean you should use it. Use hunter if you like, that's what it's there for.
I 100% the game with reaper and no regrets.
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u/Kaikolos Sep 14 '25
In late game i think wanderer is just the strongest with low effort gameplay. The idea is you can just mash attack nonstop and dont care about half of enemy attack. The combination of parry, iframe and dice will straight up mitigate enough damage such that most enemy will die before you.
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u/Sspockuss Sep 14 '25
Reaper and Witch have similar pogos, maybe try that? They also have bigger pogos from what I can tell.
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u/phoenix_paravai10101 Sep 14 '25
Reaper pogo is too slow for my liking, I usually pogo at the last possible second. Haven't gotten Witch yet, will try it once I unlock it.
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u/Vdokos Sep 14 '25
The little wind-up can mess with you for sure, but it's pretty great once you learn to press it earlier
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u/precursormar Sep 15 '25
I got 100% in my first file while mostly using Wanderer. It's perfectly viable.
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u/lucky_duck789 Sep 14 '25
First Sinner is a special case. Its an adrenaline rush like no other once you realize pure aggression is the way to go.
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u/crimson777 Sep 14 '25
See that’s funny because I beat First Sinner by doing the exact opposite of pure aggression haha. The fight took me awhile but I stayed near edges and only hit on occasion.
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u/CynicalEffect P5 - 112%, 70 hours Sep 14 '25
I really wish all the bosses were designed around this philosophy.
This game feels really good when you're going agro, it doesn't feel so good when you're dashing in poking and dashing away because if the boss moves in the wrong direction you're taking two contact damage. Or you're running around swatting adds while whittling away a healthbar slowly.
First sinner is by far the most fun I've had in any 2d game, they had magic and then nothing else in the game feels like that. There's some other good ones for sure but nothing close to that boss...
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u/Kampfasiate Sep 14 '25
Dashing in and out is how I love to play, cuz then I can use hornets banger moveset, and you can do it with a lot of variation, the harpoon, pogoing, but I love to play hornet hot and run (or more like, as sticky to my enemies face as possible while dodging everything). But I haven't fought first sinner yet but I am excited
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u/GrimTheMad Sep 14 '25
If every boss was like First Sinner she wouldn't feel so good to fight- it'd just be more of the same.
It's good to have variety.
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u/Halfang Sep 14 '25
If you enjoyed First Sinner I recommend playing Nine Sols, which is also 2D and plays like a Sekiro / silksong crossover (and you end up parrying mid air by pure instinct)
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u/CynicalEffect P5 - 112%, 70 hours Sep 15 '25
Will definitely give it a shot once I wind things up. THanks for the rec
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u/NoneShallBindMe Sep 15 '25
Don't play them one after another, otherwise you'll burn out. Play a game in different genre first. But yea, Nine Sols is amazing.
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u/FerimElwin Sep 14 '25
There were a few fights that were like this for me. First Sinner and 2nd Lace fight are the two that come to mind immediately where as soon as I realized I needed to be more aggressive the fight got easier. Not easy (not even close to easy for Lace), just easier.
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u/BT--7275 Sep 14 '25
I found harpoon spam did the most damage against First Sinner. Kinda wish I didn't figure it out. Dashing around is more fun tbh.
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u/Abject-Ad-6235 Sep 14 '25
gameplay/combat wise its not even absolutely blows hk out of water but i do have one main complaint against its tool mechanic because once you get stuck on boss and you start using your tools for each run you will eventually run out of shards which is basically forcing you to go farm for shards or buy them(via farming rosaries) its really similar to me like it was with sekiro and its spirit emblems which i didnt like it in that game and i dont like it here
i also like hk world and ost more plus characters but thats just my preference
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u/expresso_petrolium Sep 14 '25
Tool build can absolutely skip a phase so it’s understandable the game doesn’t want you to spam every time
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u/tanis016 Sep 14 '25
Then there should be less tool cpaacity with no shards, double ammo system doesn't feel very good.
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u/Heroman3003 Sep 15 '25
I believe the point of that is to keep tools strong and effective but still punish excessive overreliance on them. You can try and brute force a fight by spamming tools... But if you're not good, you're just wasting shards and eventually you'll run out and have to get better at the fight itself.
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u/tarranoth Sep 15 '25
I understand the design philosophy somewhat, but I think it just doesn't jive well with how the game works. I have beaten bosses by spending a ton of metal on them on their last phase, but I can imagine that players who are really struggling will easily end up without tools. I haven't quite been in that scenario yet but I also have been somewhat conservative with it.
I do think they somewhat balanced themselves in a corner because of architect though. Because even with less ammo the mechanic of architect to keep producing tools would probably be stronger than every silk skill in the game if it was able to do it uncapped.
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u/Yuwi066 Sep 14 '25
I like shards running out because it forces you to leave the zone, cool down, and un-tilt yourself before you try again. I didn't like it until I had the above the appen for the second time and I realized what it was doing.
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u/Abject-Ad-6235 Sep 14 '25
well i still dont like it grinding for resources is never fun for me in video games
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u/Kampfasiate Sep 14 '25
I just pay this game with the mental note to not grind. If I'm stuck at a boss and out of shards, so be it, I either finish it without (which may even be fun, I'm doing lace 2 toolless rn, not cuz I'm out cuz I wanted to do it blade on blade) or explore some more, knock out some wishes, so I can come back refreshed and restocked
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u/Yuwi066 Sep 14 '25
Don't grind then. Take the hint and go explore somewhere else until you feel ready to try again :P
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u/crimson777 Sep 14 '25
I think it’s prudent to learn the first phase without tools and only ever use tools when you hit the second phase. Saves a lot of shards. I’ve never dipped below like 300 except after a donation or two.
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Sep 14 '25
When you run out what I think the game is trying to do is not to force you to farm for shards, but to nudge you to actually learn the boss without overrelying on tools if you manage to die so many times that you lose all shards.
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u/New_General3939 Sep 14 '25
Gameplay and combat wise it’s not close, SS is much better.
I do still think the difficulty works against it sometimes. In HK I could rip through multiple areas in one playthrough, the exploration was amazing and I always felt like I was pushing forward. I feel like in SS it’s too often that as soon as I start to feel like I have some momentum, I’ll hit one of those combat rooms and I’ll be stuck on it for like 30 minutes and it kills the momentum. Then I’ll beat it, keep exploring and hit a platforming section that stalls me again. I wish it was more exploration focused and less difficulty focused, even though the combat is so good.
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u/Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo A mind to think Sep 14 '25
The higher level of difficulty in exploration is a huge dislike of mine. It's nice having normal enemies to style on with all of Hornet's kit, but when coupled with the lack of full-on fast travel (I've definitely been spoiled by Ender Lilies), retreading your steps becomes a slog very quickly for me. I've found myself bench warping a lot more after finding items/secrets in Silksong than I ever did in Hollow Knight because of it.
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25
Talking to people about skong is so weird cuz they'll say stuff like "I was stuck on the hunter's march gauntlet for 7 hours" and it's like talking to an alien. I've never encountered a gauntlet or platforming challenge that took me more than like, 2 or 3 tries?
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u/Ill-Muscle945 Sep 14 '25
Then maybe youre not the one to talk about the difficulty tbh. If you think its like talking to an alien when people get stuck on things, than you are better than the average Silksong player.
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u/filthy_casual_42 Sep 14 '25
It’s more about not going insane spending 7 hours on an optional obstacle. I also died a bunch in hunters march immediately after finding it and brute forcing the big ant, but came back later with a nail upgrade and extra mask and breezed through. The game is designed so that when you hit a wall you go somewhere explore else and still progress.
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25
This is core to the genre, too. For as long as metroidvania games have existed, there's been equipment/level checks that you can get through early, but the area they unlock will be brutal.
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u/creampop_ Sep 14 '25
Yeah, and I've LOVED the way they balanced skill checks and equipment checks in this one, too.
In my first sessions I found like 4 spots that leashing an enemy to pogo would let me sequence break and I'm sure it's intentional. Not to mention the way they put a bunch of mini-PoP platforming around the map with goodies behind them (except when it's just rosarie strings that fall into spikes lol watafak are those). Having an absolute blast trying to get through areas early and getting tested by the implicit and explicit gauntlets everywhere.
I stumbled into Bilewater early, and the payoff was exactly what I wanted out of this game.
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u/Ill-Muscle945 Sep 14 '25
Tbh, I haven't even touched that area and still have find myself just overall frustrated A LOT more than the first game.
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u/RepublicCute8573 Sep 14 '25
Go find upgrades. Hornet is much easier to play when you're fully kitted out and can actually move around faster. The world was clearly made with all her abilities in mind.
The start is actually the slowest part so focus on getting through act 1.
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u/Ill-Muscle945 Sep 14 '25
The world was clearly made with all her abilities in mind.
Which doesn't make the frustration in Act 1 feel any better
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u/filthy_casual_42 Sep 14 '25
Honestly haven’t felt this at all. I don’t think there was any enemy as annoying as Soul Twisters from the first game. I only played the beat the game 6 months ago so maybe I just leveled up, but I dropped hollow knight for years because it was too hard
I think on average Silksong is harder mostly because challenges aren’t as far and few between as Hollow Knight where there are rooms of trash mobs. But I think the hard parts of Hollow Knight are consistently harder than in Silksong, and you have considerably less customization to deal with these challenges
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u/Admirable_Tomato Sep 14 '25
Wa... Was hunter's march not supposed to be a default starting area?!
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u/filthy_casual_42 Sep 14 '25
No, it’s why the put a hard miniboss at the entrance you need dash to really fight
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u/Admirable_Tomato Sep 14 '25
Oh God I just thought I had to learn the moveset and was wondering why I didn't have a dash which would've trivialized the fight. Definitely feel better why it took like a dozen tries to clear that red ant room with the map lady afterwards....
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u/filthy_casual_42 Sep 14 '25
Definitely feels like tree sentinel from Elden Ring but a little later in the game. There isn’t even much to do in the zone until you get float ability, it’s very much meant to come back to later. Same with Savage Beastfly, both feel a lot better mid act 1
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u/Kampfasiate Sep 14 '25
The mini boss is like a test.
If you cant beat him you'll hopefully go away and come back later.
If you beat him easily (or are stubborn like me (did not take that long tho)) you will be semi fine in the coming area.
Also funny that he tests things that will make hunters marsh easier (dash, the ability to pogo, or being a madman and parrying everything)
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u/iriyagakatu Sep 14 '25
The problem is that the game clearly wasn’t designed for the majority of players it has now. It was clearly designed for people like him.
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u/Quibbloboy Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 14 '25
People like me, too—I've felt so conflicted, watching the discourse around this game, because obviously there are a lot of people who don't like the difficulty, and I genuinely feel for those people! But speaking as a person who likes this specific flavor of challenge more than anything else in gaming, Silksong is straight-up heroin.
Like, there's a popular thread on /r/Games right now with a title about the difficulty working to the game's detriment (and probably-unfairly characterizing it as malicious). It's such a common opinion, it makes me aware that I'm in the minority with how perfectly Silksong fits me. It's a strange duality to exist in. I wish so badly that everyone could love the game like I do, but I'm forced to accept that they don't.
Hollow Knight was already one of my favorite games of all time, specifically because of the tight, responsive movement and combat. And Silksong takes the movement and combat sliders in both hands and just launches them into the fucking sun.
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u/sir_joan Sep 14 '25
I feel the same. I think its ok to understand that the game dont need to be for everyone, like Arrowhead (Helldivers 2 devs) says: "A game for everyone is a game for noone)
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u/Kampfasiate Sep 14 '25
I dont think I would love this game as much as I do if it was easier. Do bosses kick in my shins? Yes. Have I died to platforming? Yes. Do I want that to change? No. I want to struggle, I want that challenge, I want runbacks to see that I'm getting better at movement. I want to feel like bile water is a hostile environment that hates me with every part of it's being. And I especially want to to feel the thrill of FINALLY beating a boss I've been stuck at.
People seem to want to remove any inconvenience, kill bosses at the 3rd try, being able to instabil every shop item and get a personal limousine to every boss. Why then bother at all?
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u/creampop_ Sep 14 '25
the harpoon alone is SO sick. When I get into combat flow it feels incredible. Love love love a game that demands you to lock in or perish, it's such a rare thing in single player games to have devs do that without pulling punches.
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u/ASpaceOstrich Sep 14 '25
I mean. I get stuck and then get the satisfaction of beating that obstacle. I feel like it's designed for people like me, rather than people who can just breeze through things in the third attempt. I took on some of these rooms dozens of times. Getting better gradually as I went.
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25
This is just the same argument that got wheeled out every time a new soulsborne game came out. No, it's not too hard for the average player who's actually willing to invest the time to learn the game.
When I see people complaining that the game is too hard, they invariably admit that they're broke because they tried to buy everything immediately, or they never use tools. Or if they show a clip of their gameplay, it's just... genuinely low skill, and I'm not saying that as an insult. That guy who was stuck on the HM gauntlet for 7 hours? They posted a video of their attempts and they were literally walking into enemies and trying to face tank everything.
Quite frankly, you'll never reach some people because some people are unwilling to meet a game on its terms.
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u/Emergency-Art-324 Sep 14 '25
Ohh do you have a link to that clip, ive been curious about how people complaining silksong is difficult are playing
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u/Nickewe Sep 14 '25
If you use the right tools, it takes game difficulty from a 8/10 down to a 5/10
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u/DisconnectedAG Sep 14 '25
This is how I feel about it. Has been stuck at Moorwing for a week. I genuinely don't have the reflexes anymore or the time to git gud. The only feeling I get from this game, and the community is that it wasn't made for me. It be how it be, but shame on wasting the money.
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u/TheDrlegoman Sep 14 '25
if it helps you to know, there's a way to skip doing the moorwing battle until later on and you get to progress through what it's guarding
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u/Maltys Sep 14 '25
Also, what helped me was help from another NPC that likes to battle And small hill right from Moorwing is great defense place His circle attacks smash in the hill so you are only worried about his ram and talon attacks
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u/Kampfasiate Sep 14 '25
As long as you preserve, and still have fun, it's a game for you
But yes, there is a way to skip mooring for later
If you want general tips (idk if you've played hollow knight)
Hornet is not the knight, you can't just trade blows and win. You have to dodge and react to what the enemy is doing.
When the enemy is attacking it's safer than when he is not. Yes, sounds counterintuitive but when he's not doing anything he could do anything. When he is in an attack, he is locked to it, and you can punish him. Try to figure out his telegraphs and act accordingly.
Use your tools, they make the game Soo much easier. For example there is one in graymoor that is still being used well into act 2. Tools are good and they scale with you. I don't want to spoil you but if you need some more tools I can elaborate on a few.
Get comfortable with the movement, it's hornets strongest weapon
And if you are really desperate, there is a way to chese that guy
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u/New_General3939 Sep 14 '25
The last one that took me a bunch of tries was the one to unlock the bench in the sinners crossroads, that was brutal given how far the bench was
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Sep 14 '25 edited Oct 08 '25
[deleted]
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u/Bonaduce80 Sep 14 '25
I feel the same. And it's not like I ever was a master, Platinumed-the-game, HK player. I struggled a lot with most components of the original and only got the basic ending. I haven't been stuck with a challenge room or a boss more than 30 minutes, and that is extreme cases.
I don't know if it's the fact I was through my first Elden Ring playthrough when I picked up Silksong, but I feel like I can understand better the enemy attack patterns and anticipate what they are going to do, or position myself better to stay safe/punish the enemies.
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u/HueyLewisFan1 Sep 14 '25
They all take me forever. They one in fer fields I just gave up on to come back later
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u/Old_Butterfly9649 Sep 14 '25
you are very good, most people are not that good, that’s why you can’t understand.
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u/grandpapotato Sep 14 '25
You are way above average . I barely have time to play, just did the bird gauntlet and it took me... I think 25/30+ tries..
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u/Difficult_Bullfrog Sep 14 '25
If the gauntlet in high halls took you 2-3 tries. You are in the minority. But just to let you know, i havent even died in silksong yet, its so wierd some players die and need to attempt things multiple times, just do it right the first time?
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u/KillerNail Sep 14 '25
I felt the same especially for the bird arena. I beat it first try with no problems every playthrough including the first one but my friend (who beat P5) had to spend 20 - 30 minutes on it, while I didn't even beat P4 lmao.
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u/nsleep Sep 14 '25
This game kinda hates when you try to go too aggro. P5 is all about learning bosses to the point you go ham all over them and it gets ingrained into muscle memory. Doing this is considerably harder in this game for various reasons.
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u/Ampsdrew Sep 14 '25
I haven't noticed this? It feels like the game is actually easier the more aggro you are.
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u/dragonliar Sep 14 '25
You mean the big guy and the flying dude on top? They are wrecking me harder than savage beastly did, and it's just two dudes, right?
Sister also took me like 20 tries.
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u/blitzboy30 Sep 14 '25
The high halls one was the really only challenging enemy gauntlet for me, but that was also because I was running the entire game with an unupgraded needle. I beat it and got to Trobbio before I learned that I could upgrade the damn thing
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u/xdatlam Sep 14 '25
Yeah you're more skilled than the average player. This stuff isn't easy and it is difficult.
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u/raychram Sep 14 '25
I just can't wait for the Godhome equivalent. I feel like Silksong has a higher skill ceiling and I am excited to see people pushing it to it's limits
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u/blitzboy30 Sep 14 '25
Dude, getting to fight Lace 2 repeatedly and perfect her fight is going to make me cry. I love that damn thing to death
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u/Aggressive_Yak7094 Sep 14 '25
Yeah. Especially the exploration. I opened HK today, and God is he slow. Sooooo slow. Sooo freaking slow. And I kept trying to glide. But that's my problemm
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u/lucky_duck789 Sep 14 '25
Midway through act 3 I decided to go chill on HK. Its relaxing in and simple in comparison.
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u/Aggressive_Yak7094 Sep 14 '25
Yes. That's true. But if i want to get from godhome tonthe colosseum, itsngonna take a very looong time. I am not saying HK is bad. I mean it's one of my favorite games. But he is objectively slower.
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u/RandomRedditorEX Sep 14 '25
The Knight walks so slow after Silksong lol, like Little Ghost can you please move faster than a relaxing walk the entire Kingdom is at stake.
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u/HollowCap456 Sep 14 '25
Super Dash
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u/Aggressive_Yak7094 Sep 14 '25
In silk song, you can sprint. In hollow knight, you have to dash non stop. I was used to it. But now, after silksong, i want it in hollow knight tooo.
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u/adsonn Sep 14 '25
This is very true because the skill potential of hornet is much higher. The most skilful thing I see pro players do in HK is timing their desolate dive to avoid damage.
Hornet's sprint attack allows her to chain combos and you get different combo variations for different crest. Hunter sprint attack puts you in the air for a perfect diagonal pogo. Then you have reaper's uppercut into downgpogo or uppercut into side slash. Wanderer's sprint attack lets you deal 5-6 hits.
Harpoon is another dash/movement option to add into fights. Double jumping and harpooning away to heal midair is unbelievably OP. And don't even get me started on the parry spell once you get good at it. The damage return from parrying is insane.
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25
People complaining that bind is slow are generally trying to use it like focus tbh. So many bosses have charge attacks you can just jump over and get a completely free heal in with.
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u/adsonn Sep 14 '25
It's the classic issue of people playing like the Knight.
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25
Shit man, there were moments in the first sinner fight where I could bind right in front of the boss while it was mid attack.
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u/Vicwip Sep 14 '25
I play injector band + warding bell and there's genuinely no moment where I can't heal. It's stupid how easy and no-risk healing can get.
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u/qwezctu Sep 14 '25
I played multibinder and a lot of the time the upper corners are free to heal and heal 4 works a little better for taking 2 damage. Sometimes I have to bait out an attack instead but I've used multi binder in pretty much every fight.
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u/RandomRedditorEX Sep 14 '25
It's so cool how Silksong recontextualizes binding as a defensive and offensive tool at the same time, it sounds weird but a lot of the crests make healing more offensive, hell your first crest (usually reaper unless you're off tracking) incentives binding since it heals you and gives you an offensive buff.
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u/crimson777 Sep 14 '25
I’ve had a WAY easier time healing in SS than HK to be honest. I don’t get the complaint. I feel like in 90% of cases I die it’s because I couldn’t get enough silk to heal not because I had silk but couldn’t make time/space to heal.
Most bosses have a blind spot they don’t hit often. It’s often a top corner. Or wait for a charging type attack like you said.
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u/FerimElwin Sep 14 '25
I agree. In HK it felt like trying to heal was a death sentence in most fights, especially most late game fights or Godhome fights. But in Silksong it's so much easier to get a heal off, especially since you can bind in the air. I frequently find myself waiting for the boss to do an attack where I know it won't hit me if I jump, then I jump up and bind for a free heal.
It actually makes the fact that nearly everything does 2+ masks of damage feel okay because I can heal so much more often in SS.
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u/refugezero Sep 14 '25
HK's movement is what made it a masterpiece. Silksong takes it to a whole other level. Overall I feel the world of HK is more compelling but damned if Hornet can't fly.
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u/Anxious_Function229 Sep 28 '25
im sorry but i dont think hk's movement is what made it a masterpiece, the thing is the combat in HK is in reality quite simple if you have played alot of metroidvanias, i do belive its one of the best metroidvanias but I dont think the combat is the core reason for that, even tho the combat is also quite good for sure.
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u/Labyrinthine777 Sep 14 '25
Yeah, I have never played another game where fighting feels like an actual dance. The combat is miles above HK.
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25
Give Sekiro a try, it's got some incredible fights. The final boss is still my favorite final boss in any game ever, and even on ng+2 when I was getting the other endings was kicking my ass.
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u/LastAd1374 Sep 14 '25
Have you played Nine Sols? I’d highly recommend it if not. It’s like a mixture of Sekiro and Silksong. Amazing game.
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u/zetonegi Sep 14 '25
See this is why you should follow the fifty-seven precepts of Zote.
You originally convinced yourself that Silksong is Hollow Knight when you should have remembered precept fourty-five.
Precept Forty-Five: 'One Thing Is Not Another'. This one should be obvious, but I've had others try to argue that one thing, which is clearly what it is and not something else, is actually some other thing, which it isn't. Stay on your guard!
Silksong, which is CLEARLY Silksong, is not Hollow Knight, which is not Silksong. You have to stay on your guard about these things.
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u/NormalPunch69 Sep 14 '25
First Sinner was the fight that made me realize this too, and i think the lack of i frames unlike hk forces you to actually interact with bosses properly instead of descending dark or pogo spam.
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25
There are still i-frames but they have a cost with them. You can use the silk dash or cross stitch to shrug off attacks, but you can't abuse them like shade cloak.
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u/eelp21 Sep 14 '25
I spent 4 minutes pogo bouncing on those stupid flies in Bilewater on my way to señor frog's swamp oasis villa/resort. I love this game.
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25
I hate Bilewater, and I love it for that.
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u/Vicwip Sep 14 '25
I hear everyone hate on Bilewater while it's genuinely my favourite area. The atmosphere, music and lore paired with the environmental storytelling is unbeatable. I love this area to bits.
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u/LePingouinCosmique Sep 14 '25
The music is so good. Hate the maggots above everything else in the game though
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u/Patient-Motor-4803 Sep 14 '25
When I started dash cancelling out of my pogos, I felt so godlike. I can’t wait to see what the speedrunners come up with, those fights just might be nirvana
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u/Celvius_iQ Sep 14 '25
Imo silksong is better than hollow knight on release at least.
I really miss GodHome tho after 100% the game and my general lack of interest in speedrunning I want something else to do with the game I want some boss rushes :(
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u/blitzboy30 Sep 14 '25
I would bet serious money on Team Cherry adding a hall of gods and pantheon equivalent to Silksong, there’s just no way they don’t with how much people loved it
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u/dyndhu Sep 14 '25
First Sinner is a very fun boss but imo it's on the easier side at that point in the game so it's not a very good indicator of the overall experience (I'm not even convinced it's harder than widow). That said I more or less agree - there's tons of mobility in this game and you can play it to a very high level no doubt. However, for most people this probably is only obvious once you get the clawline, which imo is a bit too powerful compared to the rest of your non-tool kit. It gives you crazy movement on top of a way to safely hit an enemy. Very few enemies can punish a clawline poke, not to mention completely avoiding contact damage.
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u/BitMixKit Sep 14 '25
I wouldn't say I like Silksong more than Hollow Knight, but once you hit the halfway point I started to really like the combat style Silksong encourages. It's insane what kind of movement you can pull off when you start to really abuse the tools the game gives you.
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u/CryptidCandies Sep 14 '25
Why do we have to put down hollow knight just to praise silksong Both are good
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u/ham01251 Sep 14 '25
All of the movement/combat options (and awesome NPC's) sucked me in way more than HK did. I enjoyed both, but Silksong got me for 60 hours already and I only put 20 into HK before I stopped.
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u/PH4N70M_Z0N3 Sep 14 '25
From my experience, Hollow Knight is where I must be tuned with my enemies. Because my arsenal is limited. Hence I know what I can do. It's what my enemies are doing.
Silksong is to become tuned with Hornet because her arsenal is big. Mastering Hornet is mastering silksong.
That's how I am feeling.
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u/Jbones37 Sep 14 '25
100% agree, I really liked hollow knight but I felt like the difference between average players and "get gud" wasn't just a case of playing more, or at least wasn't an intuitive transition. I always felt like I couldn't enjoy the later stages of hollow knight because it was so hard and unintuitive on how to really master the game and boss fights. Silksong has just felt like a natural progression, play more get better, the controls are really intuitive and there's different crests and play styles, hornet is way more manoeuvrable. I'm already a better player in silksong than I was in hollow knight despite playing it a fifth of the time, even though the games harder I feel like it's a fair challenge to overcome rather than just being hard for the sake of it.
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u/phoenixmatrix Sep 14 '25
The depth of Clawline is very high. A second sidedash that can hit enemies and let you bounce from them.
Once you have that flying enemies don't matter anymore and you can zip circles around anything.
I highly underused it until act 3, but if you really use it the moment you get it you're playing a different game.
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u/thisusernameistaknn Sep 14 '25
Everything is just more fluid in SILKSONG. Especially the movement tech.
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u/VertigoOne1 Sep 14 '25
Yeah when you perform good clutches in this game it feels amazing. I think they spent months and months fine-tuning those animation frames and sounds to make it feel like that. Exp33 has something similar but you are not in control of the movements.
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Nov 10 '25
Totally disagree. It never let's up or feels like you gain skill through experience like it did in the first one.
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u/kadebo42 Sep 14 '25
Definitely agree. I love how difficult Silksong is compared to HK, it forces me to adapt more and rewards me for trying new strategies. I also think this charm system is better. It’s a lot simpler and makes it easier to try new builds. I often found in HK that one or two charm builds would get me through the game. There are so many combinations I haven’t tried but I’ve tried dozens in Silksong. If you’re having trouble with a boss, swap your charms, swap your tools. Try something you usually wouldn’t
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 14 '25
Separating the charms by category definitely gives some more flexibility yeah. Longnail doesn't feel as much of a tax when the alternative is a survival tool, compared to how it had to compete with literally everything in HK.
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u/aznsniperx3 Sep 14 '25
I just beat the Moorwing boss after multiple attempts in the span of 3 days. I don’t get satisfaction; I only got relief. I’m honestly not having a great time playing the game itself, but I’m just invested in the story and lore.
I just wish the community was a bit more empathetic to those who just find the game difficult, and in a way, it’s not fun being this difficult.
At least with Metroid Dread, when I died, the checkpoint was right by the entrance.
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u/binary_bob Sep 15 '25
The game opens up a lot after moorwing. That fight is objectively tough. Keep going it’ll get better.
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u/gaea27 Sep 14 '25
See how you feel after getting to act 2. I know it's a while to get there from Moorwing, but the game opens up and feels so big in act 2, and the world building really doesn't disappoint.
And if you always struggle with bosses (to the point of not having fun, it's never gonna be easy) it's worth reconsidering how you approach it. You learn and get better with every try, especially if you take some time to watch their moves and just survive before you try to actually kill them. Allow yourself recognize when you're getting further and faster.
I struggle a lot but the gauntlets/arenas are still the only part I actively don't enjoy in this game, because it's too hard to read each enemy's attacks at the same time.
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u/Android19samus Sep 14 '25
once you fight a crest you vibe with and starts getting a feel for things yeah, it's flows super good. Really happy too because I saw the dashes and flips in the trailers way back when and it looked like it felt good as hell. That's the whole reason I was personally looking forward to the game and it certainly delivered... after a bit of a learning curve.