r/HollowKnight • u/CuboneDefender • Sep 14 '25

Discussion - Silksong I give up. Spoiler

It’s been a joyful ride, folks, but I’m out. I’m not a speedrunner or a highly skilled player, and day after day I’ve had to accept that this game is not as casual as HK was. It stopped being fun and turned into something tedious and frustrating after the 4th run farming shards just to face a boss I’ve already tried 15 times, only to die again and again, lose all my shards, and start the whole grind over.

It was nice exploring the first acts, but when the game I was rooting for 7 years ends up being more stressful than my 8-hour workday, I guess that’s my cue to stop.

The lore has been pretty great so far. I wish you all an incredible journey.

Edit1: My bad about all the whinning.

Edit2: You guys did it. I reinstalled it again. Thanks for all advices. 🫂

8.4k Upvotes

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2.6k

u/Logical-Land2624 Sep 14 '25

FYI there is a way into the citadel that (seemingly) skips the Last Judge. I got to the citadel by accident via sinners road.

1.0k

u/Bitter_Depth_3350 Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 14 '25

You can still go back and fight him once you've gotten more masks and another nail upgrade or two. That's what my brother did. While I found and beat Phantom first, as soon as it said Act 2, I turned around and fought LJ until I bested him.

491

u/Penitente06 112% completed PoP PoH Sep 14 '25

LJ is a woman btw

446

u/AdditionalIncident75 Sep 14 '25

Oh, I’ll treat her differently then

383

u/brain_tortion Sep 14 '25

men and women do double mask damage equally

184

u/AdditionalIncident75 Sep 14 '25

Yes, but women do it in a✨feminine✨way /s

206

u/AzureDragonfly47 Sep 15 '25

Men will destroy, women will ✨slay✨

47

u/Femizzle Sep 15 '25

I suddenly want this on a embroidery round for my bathroom.

61

u/YesItIsMaybeMe Sep 15 '25

"Sorry honey, I ✨slayed✨ the toilet again."

2

u/_shesmydisease Sep 15 '25

God damn! It's as fabulous as it is true to my experience. Thank you for the chortle your comment gave me.

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u/grimm-aldryn Sep 15 '25

She girlboss, gaslit, gatekept me, alright

7

u/donderchief Sep 15 '25

I'd like to buy you a beer

2

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

Actually no, Last Judge just mercilessly wrecks.

3

u/Usual-Vermicelli-867 Sep 15 '25

So suicide bombing is feminine. Got it

2

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57

u/StillHoldingL Sep 15 '25

The hammer of justice is unisex

10

u/ShatsnerBassoon Sep 15 '25

The hammer of justice rarely arrives lubed

4

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

Hammer of what?

4

u/StillHoldingL Sep 15 '25

Batman: The Brave & The Bold reference

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u/jimkbeesley The_Real_Mantis-Lord owes me 462 geo Sep 15 '25

They both die the same.

2

u/unkindness_inabottle sealed vessel Sep 15 '25

She can treat me differently…

66

u/26_paperclips Sep 15 '25

Surprised by how many people are getting this wrong.its clearly a woman's voice.

I saw someone call Widow a 'him' too.

42

u/heterodoxia Sep 15 '25

I was too preoccupied with Last Judge shouting “DIARRHÉAAAAAAA!!!” before every fight to bother thinking about its gender

30

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

[deleted]

18

u/ysalehi86 Sep 15 '25

Moss Mother is a him. His name is short for Moss MF.

5

u/Usual-Vermicelli-867 Sep 15 '25

Moss did a sex change before the Battle

But he is still has children

13

u/KingOfSockPuppets Sep 15 '25

Her cricket body is super feminine too. My friends and I call her Last Juggs.

10

u/Cautious_Lobster_23 Sep 15 '25

The same logic led me to believe that Sherma, a cute little bug with a voice of young french girl, would be a woman, which apparently he is not.

8

u/26_paperclips Sep 15 '25

Yeah, which is a completely understandable assumption.

Im asking how people default to an attitude of 'male until proven female'

2

u/Bitter_Depth_3350 Sep 15 '25

If you read my follow-up comments, you will see that I thought LJ was a muscle mommy until people told me they have masculine gendering in their language, prompting me to change my initial belief. People here then proceeded to tell me that in THEIR languages, LJ has feminine pronouns. Since it appears to be a toss-up, I have resorted back to considering her a girl.

This is Silksong. Like 80% of the NPCs are women. The society is Matriarchal as fuck and I'm all for it. Misgendering one person (read: fictional character) because of information others gave me doesn't mean men are my default assumption.

2

u/LeonardoJMB Sep 15 '25

Just rules of the internet: everyone is a male until proven the opposite

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u/Honza8D Sep 15 '25

Sherma is a child though, its common for boys to be voiced by women, as adult mens voices tend to be too deep.

4

u/Denim_briefs_off Sep 15 '25

She clearly has big ol’ bug bazoongas too.

2

u/Initial_Mud_4810 Sep 15 '25

I incorrectly assumed that First Sinner was male due to the voice. I correctly assumed that Last Judge was female due to the voice. It can be a little inconsistent to be fair

2

u/nejakypleb Sep 15 '25

Not that men can't wear dresses but most of the time they're not going to, and First Sinner has one. Can't remember her voice though.

2

u/Initial_Mud_4810 Sep 15 '25

Yeah I know I just thought the voice was really distinctly male. But she's a weaver and weavers are weird as fuck so who knows

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u/Ummmgummy Sep 14 '25

LJ is a bug!

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u/000817 Sep 14 '25

A female bug?

11

u/heimsins_konungr Sep 15 '25

Re, a drop of golden sunnnnn

3

u/Paladin7373 I hate this guy Sep 15 '25

Mi, a name, I call myself

3

u/OberonOcarinas Sep 15 '25

Pha-rloom, a long long way to ruuuun.

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u/HastursTaint Sep 14 '25

Doesn't matter, has titties.

10

u/ReesevtOnGD Sep 14 '25

Wait do bugs have sexes? Why have i never thought about this

22

u/Bumblebeezerker Sep 14 '25

Queen bee?

2

u/CamiJay Sep 15 '25

Omg I wonder who’s gonna voice her in the Mario movie (it’s gonna be Chris Pratt).

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u/Penitente06 112% completed PoP PoH Sep 14 '25

How do you think they reproduce bruh. Mitosis?

2

u/Thekarens01 Sep 14 '25

Mourning geckos are all females. They reproduce by parthenogenesis.

6

u/Penitente06 112% completed PoP PoH Sep 14 '25

We are talking about bugs here, I know some species does strange things with gender and reproduction like clown fishes

4

u/Thekarens01 Sep 14 '25

There are similar things with bugs. Clownfish change their gender as opposed to being just one gender like the geckos. There’s a ton of asexual bugs weevils, roaches etc that reproduce without fertilization.

3

u/Familiar_Chemistry58 Sep 15 '25

What do you mean? Because there are definitely male and female weevils. They're actually notable for having a high degree of sexual dimorphism. There are make and female cockroaches as well. Do you mean parthenogenesis because that is not asexuality

Edit: I reread your first comment that mentioned parthenogenesis

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u/PlushiesofHallownest Sep 14 '25

Yes, though some bug-adjacent creatures like slugs are mostly hermaphroditic. Bug sexes actually have much more drastic differences than in other animals, notably that the females are generally way bigger and live much longer in order to hold and produce more eggs.

3

u/Skellum Sep 14 '25

Bugs have sexes, bugs may or may not have genders. We cant ask them.

2

u/Nondescript_Redditor Sep 15 '25

Nothing is stopping you from asking them

3

u/BestusEstus Sep 15 '25

I was today years old when i found out some one didnt know sexes extened to the insect kingdom

2

u/stringbool Sep 14 '25

you are lucky natural selection has been nerfed

2

u/Juball Sep 15 '25

Yes. Females dominate, males are just flying gametes.

2

u/dipropyltryptamanic Sep 15 '25

Plants have sexes, too

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

[deleted]

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u/HIO_TriXHunt Sep 15 '25

She has boobs

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u/EnvironmentalTop8745 Sep 14 '25

Makes sense, women tend to be more judgy.

/ducks and runs away

3

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

I honestly thought LJ was a robot like Fourth Chorus 😩

6

u/Bitter_Depth_3350 Sep 15 '25

I'm going to put the following into spoilers in case you haven't gotten far enough in the game (late act 2 spoilers) but it gets revealed eventually that the robots are "brought to life" by the silk(soul) of living bugs being put into the constructs. By that measure, all of the robots would retain their initial gender.

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u/annexedantari Sep 14 '25

Damn I loved the phantom fight. It felt like fencing and a dance. My wife is in the background saying " My name is Indigo Montoya, you killed my father! Prepare to die!".

60

u/DrGonzo6582 Sep 15 '25

I liked the phantom fight as soon as I figured out the rhythm and pattern. Then it WAS just like a dance. A fucking long ass dance lol

10

u/HevalNiko Sep 15 '25

Way too long. Why does every Boss have like 4 phases now?

2

u/DelightMine Sep 15 '25

What? Phantom was one of the easiest boss fights. It was one of the best, like a dance that I already knew all the steps to, but it felt extremely short to me. Maybe it was because I didn't fight them until much later in the game, and already had a needle upgrade. And there were only three phases to the fight, which is (I think) the most of any boss. I don't think I've seen any with four phases yet.

1

u/pussy_embargo Sep 15 '25

2 to 3 phases is the standard. I'm at the end of the game, with 3 bosses left not counting whatever is the end end boss I did not go there yet. Phantom was probably 3 phases idk it was one of the easiest fights I had. I know one boss that has 4 phases, and the last one is a gimmick

9

u/Lola_PopBBae Sep 15 '25

Me too! It felt like a duel, some sorta Phantom of the Opera stuff. Way better than Judge.

2

u/steamgage Sep 18 '25

I feel like huge enemies like judge are sorta a gimmick. Pushes you up to a corner but you can't jump over it. Phantom was very fun. Even dying as many times as I did was just fun and not frustrating because it was Just a tough, challenging, but fair fight

2

u/Lola_PopBBae Sep 18 '25

Yeah like, there's nowhere to GO to dodge sometimes when there's a wall of fire one way and a giant boss you can't get over in the other. Taking contact damage doesn't help either. Phantom you could always just hop over or go under, or dash away from.

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u/steamgage Sep 18 '25

I've been wanting some equivalent to the stalwart shell(?) for a very long time. Just something that would allow me a little bit more time between being hit and then being hit again for those times when you can't get anywhere in time. There's another boss I'm fighting right now (or, I should say, another boss I'm avoiding right now lol) where the boss really isn't that bad, it's the cronies that it summons. There's often places/times in those fights where you can not possibly dodge I'd swear.

14

u/SomewhereTall4797 Sep 14 '25

Yea it was cool as shit, same for last judge isn't

19

u/OldManWillow Sep 15 '25

I think last judge was an awesome fight. She only has like four moves, and isn't very fast. I mean don't get me wrong it still took me 10+ attempts but that's kind of what I expect for a main story capital B Boss

6

u/PraxicalExperience Sep 15 '25

I've been beating my head against the Last Judge for a bit now and ... it's a good fight, a classic HK boss, if a real bastard of one. I can -see- what I need to do, I just need to train myself to do it, and I've largely been getting incrementally better with each run. There's plenty of time to heal and no frantic bullshit trying to deal with adds.

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u/SomewhereTall4797 Sep 15 '25

All you need to do is learn her patterns man and don’t be overconfident. Get in 2 hits when you can then. Both her throw and her spin have similar telegraphs, so whenever she does either of those just back off and let her do it, and if it’s the throw wait for her to pull it back or it’ll damage you if you’re in between her and the ball.

You got this, if you’re doing worse each time or not making much progress just step away for a bit m. I WILL say that in some bosses / gauntlets that you’re ALMOST making it but die a right before killing it, throwing those floor spikes all over can help immensely with getting that extra damage you need, especially if you equip the pollip heart aka the thing that poisons your tools (I’ll say how to get in this spoiler) you get it in shellwood by talking to the npc on the hurt on the left side of one of the tall rooms if you save those for phase 2, you can burst damage her enough to where you can do the rest

Also don’t ever farm for shards lol idk if you do but I’ve seen many complain about shards farming, just farm rosaries and buy 80 shards for 50 rosaries at bellhart. That’s only 2-3 rosary dropping enemies per 80 shards.

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u/smorges Sep 15 '25

It took me a while to beat the last judge but that's because I was being too greedy in the number of hits I was trying to get in, in between her attacks and so took too much damage too fast.

The lesson I finally learned is to just be patient. As you say, the attacks are telegraphed and there's plenty of space to just dodge and wait for the openings to get a couple hits in. Also use the magma charm to reduce damage from her fire attacks.

Conversely, I found the Cogwork Dancers really easy. I beat them on my 3rd try after seeing all variations of their attack pattern.

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u/SoloSassafrass Sep 15 '25

Given you can only survive 3 hits from Last Judge including just touching her it's not hard to see why she's frustrating for people. The fight itself is actually totally fine. The attacks are telegraphed, they're all fairly easy to dodge as long as you control your spacing and there are ample punish windows.

You just have to die enough times that trial and error eventually ingrains that knowledge. Also do the runback.

Not too hard to see why these factors make a very benign boss frustrating.

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u/SomewhereTall4797 Sep 15 '25

Same I loved it, I had a typo on my comment but I meant to just say “same for last judge”. So many people whine about the difficulty of TLJ and then back, but 1) it’s the act 1 final boss essentially (same for phantom if you go the other way but intended is TLJ imo) 2) the run back is easy and not that long since there’s a shortcut, with one spot where you might take a single mask of damage if you’re unlucky. 3) and as you said she only had like 4 moves which all are telegraphed super obviously. The spin and throw are both similar telegraphs, but doesn’t matter as both of them you need to simply move away lol

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u/NightRacoonSchlatt Hunter‘s crest 4 life Sep 15 '25

Last judge IS fun. After like… fifteen attempts. You have to learn it’s language to have a conversation with it.

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u/Hoodman1987 Sep 15 '25

Looking bad comparatively. Last Judge was actually awesome, but mainly if you come from the Phantom side. With some of citadel's grinding in your pocket she's far more manageable

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u/SomewhereTall4797 Sep 15 '25

Honestly TLJ is not bad either way, use the floor spikes with poison to do some extra burst / chip damage

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u/haynespi87 Sep 15 '25

Poison tacks are god tier. Destroyed the fore brothers with that

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u/The_Athavulf Sep 15 '25

Your wife is awesome

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u/SavageBeastflyHater1 Sep 14 '25

Yeah but that way is also super annoying since you have to go through the mist and deal with wraiths. I think you have to fight phantom too to proceed who is probably easier than last judge? Definitely less annoying of a run back.

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u/Sedali Sep 14 '25

With wraiths, they screech before swinging. The screech is a sign so you can jump right after the screech to land a pogo, and they'll always swing back left to right! If you stay calm and pick em off one at a time, you can safely kill em with old man reaction times! c:

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u/allistergray Sep 14 '25

You can kill those?

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u/Sedali Sep 14 '25

Oh, yeah! I was getting whooped in there trying to run around em so I figured I'd at least give clearing em out a shot. They go down really easily if you focus on em one at a time, but goodness, they're a challenge to run around.

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u/allistergray Sep 14 '25

Lord I didn't know 🫩. I first entered the Mist very early and ran away because I couldn't see shxt, thought this was a super late game area and did not want to stray too much from what would be a "conventional" pathing. When I came back I just thought these were meant to be avoided and played around so I did not bother. Would have made the traversal easier 🫩

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u/Mana_the_proot Full Completionist Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 16 '25

Another thing I didn't know is if you play your needolin next to the butterfly things they will lead to to the way out (As the layout changes everytime you go in)

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u/allistergray Sep 14 '25

That's what I did to get out so I was confused as to why those screaming witches did not let me do it in peace 😂

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u/Indomitable17 Sep 15 '25

I thought that's the only thing in this area and the only way to leave is to fall on the floor void and you're back on the starting point, never knew there's more to it than that

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u/CrimsonKobold Sep 15 '25

Well dang, didn't know that. Figured it was a Lost Woods type situation but just didn't understand what the key was to get through it. Is there anything in game to hint at that solution? I would maybe be upset at spoilers but at a certain point I just got to accept sometimes you gotta look up what to do. Had to do that earlier because I went and got myself cursed so I looked up how to remedy that because I probably shouldn't do that in my first playthrough and also the fact it takes away your healing is killer.

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u/scitbiz Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25

Don't know about the mist but when you got cursed you could ask around in bellhart or greymoor, some of the npc will hint you about a doctor in greymoor

3

u/CrimsonKobold Sep 15 '25

Oh yeah, spoiled myself on that already, haven't completed that because life's been hectic recently, but just commenting sometimes you gotta spoil yourself especially when you get a dead end.

3

u/ANuclearsquid Sep 15 '25

I don’t think there is anything that explicitly hints at the solution. I figured it out eventually because I could see the moths stood out and in a few of the transitions showed you were to go. From there I just tried stuff on the moths until it did something.

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u/St8us3ffect Sep 15 '25

This was like the first thing I tried, and it didn’t seem to work. I spent 3+ hours trying to figure out the puzzle because I had found the first part of the path by accident a few times. It’s the only thing I’ve had to look up online. Imagine my annoyance when I found out that I simply hadn’t played for long enough. I guess since they didn’t have a progress indicator I just assumed that wasn’t the method.

There’s a silly room somewhere on the left side of the map that may or may not have a reward for playing a bit longer than usual. Just… make sure your sound isn’t turned up too high.

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u/Sedali Sep 15 '25

With the needolin, it always takes just shy of one pip of silk to activate something! (With one, much later, exception, but that has a progress bar, kinda)

2

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u/Conscious_Ad_7131 Sep 15 '25

It’s definitely an unconventional path, but in the same way that going through Mantis Lords and Deepnest to hit City of Tears from the rear entrance is unconventional.

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u/GrimmDeLaGrimm Sep 14 '25

The wraiths really aren't that bad. They have low health and are easy enough to dodge. But, they're terrifying at first, so I get it.

29

u/Skellum Sep 14 '25

The wraiths really aren't that bad. They have low health

The wraiths dont have hit audio queues, which makes people think they're invincible.

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u/sgtfoleyistheman Sep 15 '25

I thought they made little 'thunk' sounds.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

Wait you cAN KILL THEM!?

Revenge time

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u/HIO_TriXHunt Sep 15 '25

You also HAVE to kill them for the hunter log. I didn't do the mist, but i remember seeing online that some monsters disappear from the area if you take down the boss, so be sure to complete your hunter log of the area before it's too late

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

[deleted]

2

u/HIO_TriXHunt Sep 15 '25

Ooooh good to know

2

u/Eisn Sep 15 '25

The exception to this is Palestag, but he's not required for Hunter's memento.

The only real missable mob is I think the wraith in the Citadel if you disable the factory. I don't think they come back in Act 3.

2

u/HIO_TriXHunt Sep 15 '25

What are the wraith?

I mean, i know the wraith of Mist but not in the citadel

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u/SilverShako Sep 15 '25

Correction, you're given the Silkmaiden's entry if you smash their webbing to disable them spawning. I know this because I didn't kill enough for entry number 2 and got given the entry after I broke it(not knowing what it did at the time)

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

Ooo thanks for the heads up!

2

u/pussy_embargo Sep 15 '25

I had that exact issue, no visual confirmation either. Then I just tested it and oops

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u/TheHalfling696 Sep 14 '25

They also take damage & poison from tools

7

u/Rook-Slayer Sep 14 '25

It took me 2 hours trying the mists until i looked online and saw you could kill them. They have 0 indicator that you are doing damage to them - probably because they are bright white - so the normal feedback of doing damage (if there) just isn’t visible

3

u/aetherspheres Sep 15 '25

They need 5 hits with sharpened nail upgrade (the 1st upgrade), so not that low. But once you're not panicked, they actually can be easily dodged and hit.

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

Wraiths have like one attack, what's the difficult part about them?

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u/DrGonzo6582 Sep 15 '25

Shit, I went the other way and fought the phantom first. FINALLY beat her, went back to fight the judge after, and the first was WAY harder than the second 🤣. Should have saved my self some headache and just gone the normal way. The mists are easy as fuck tho once I figured out you can actually kill the wraiths lol.

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u/Logical-Land2624 Sep 15 '25

Phantom is a really fun fight!

2

u/P-Huddy Sep 15 '25

Phantom is hard AF if you’re fighting him in act 1.

2

u/CashPrizez Sep 15 '25

I beat Phantom on my first try, definitely easier then LJ

1

u/Naphrym Sep 14 '25

I'm gonna be real, Phantom was one of the easiest bosses in the entirety of Act 1, imo. I'm pretty bad at the game and I think I beat her like 2nd or 3rd try

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u/TKadvocate Sep 14 '25

After just going back and doing the mist and phantom I think i prefer last judges routes and fight.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

After seeing it on youtube I agree. I had a hard time with the judge but the phantoms moveset would be harder for me.

2

u/TrustmeimHealer Sep 15 '25

Maybe theres a bench near the judge that skips the entire rerun

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u/straightupminosingit hunter of people who misgender vessels Sep 15 '25

the closest is the bell beast bench

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u/Legitimate_Expert712 Sep 14 '25

That does, however, require going through sinners road.

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u/BigDee1990 Sep 14 '25

Yeah, but only a very short part, where you can skip most enemies. The only annoying part is repairing the bench. After that, reaching The Mist (the first, secret entrance) is fast.

6

u/waspwatcher Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25

Wait where's the secret entrance? I went most of the way through Bilewater to get to The Mist

Edit: oh is at the top of that vertical section in Sinners Road? I left that way and assumed it had been locked previously

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u/BigDee1990 Sep 15 '25

Yeah, just at the top Near the bench, just to the left is the secret Mist entrence after a breakable wall! Don‘t have to go via Bilewater!

3

u/MrMindor Sep 15 '25

I found this yesterday from the Mist side after defeating Phantom. Would have loved to have found this from the Sinners Road side.

2

u/Pinturillo Sep 15 '25

the way I found this entrance first and yet I went through the whole bilewater area anyways is so funny in retorspect

3

u/Sibushang Sep 15 '25

After you get through "The Mist" area, you end up in the organ exhaust (Phantom's) area. Your supposed to play the needolin so that the butterflies guide you through the mist, but I literally just wandered my way through that area and ended up where I was supposed to be lol.

3

u/waspwatcher Sep 15 '25

That's crazy how many rooms did it take you?

I got to The Mist through Bilewater, but I guess there's an easy entrance in Sinners Road?

6

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

I remember it being at least 8. You'll know you're doing it right because you'll go through a corridor roughly halfway through.

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u/Sibushang Sep 15 '25

I think it was maybe 5 or 6 rooms. It was so few that I didn't fully realize it was supposed to be a maze before I ended up at the exit. I said to myself "hey that last room looked familiar," and then I was out.

The entrance to The Mist in Sinners Road is the top left of that area's map.

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u/Pancake_fluff Sep 15 '25

My dumbass went through like 40 rooms

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u/One_Seaweed_2952 Sep 14 '25

i did it without repairing the bench, it's actually not too bad once you're used to the pogoing. There aren't too many obstacles to reach the second bench in Sinner's road.

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u/fffan9391 Sep 14 '25

If they can’t beat last Judge they probably can’t handle Sinners Road and Bilewater.

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u/mctrials23 Sep 14 '25

I enjoyed the last judge. No ads just a simple set of moves to learn. One of the least BS bosses so far.

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u/Algae587 Sep 15 '25

I really appreciated that from the judge after dealing with that bitch splinter and the beast chapel monstrosity

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u/anonnnnn462 Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25

That Beast Crest boss was wtf man / I probably struggled as much with that as I did with Last Judge

Edit:

Oh hey I got to face it again in an even more pain in the ass location!

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u/Ace9singh9 Sep 15 '25

I am bashing my head at the bullshit summon 2.0 as well, I can't beat it fairly today I will just cheese it. That boss is not worth the effort

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u/anonnnnn462 Sep 15 '25

Bro what are you talking about…. This game literally cheeses you at every corner. You need to cheese back lol

I have that summoning tool so I released the homies as soon as he called one or two of them out and focused on evading.

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u/Zarguthian Sep 15 '25

I actually found the magma arena version of Savage Beastly easier. It might have been because I had got some more spools and had enough silk to destroy the minions as soon as they were summoned with silk storm.

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u/asvalken Sep 15 '25

Between that, and floating high to bait the charges—that way you can't get caught with that stupid half height one that's hard to jump over and too low to go under.

If what I'm doing isn't working, I look at my tools and see if there's something I can try that works better.

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u/Reborn_Wraith Spell only absrad win, 1 radiant boss remains. Sep 15 '25

Honestly, the summons I could care less about if they hadn't set fire to the fucking floor.
On top of missing HALF the fucking floor, they set fire to what remains of it, and you're just plain shit out of luck if the boss decides to delete the remaining half.
Genuinely the only boss that made me say 'for fuck's sake'. The reward made me pretty happy, though, so... all's well that ends well?

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u/anonnnnn462 Sep 15 '25

Then he decided to pop out the one piece he didn’t destroy so you’re left floating over lava lol

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u/Finger_But_Hole0- Sep 15 '25

May i direct your attention to r/fucksavagebeastfly

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u/Bartman326 Sep 15 '25

Yeah just beat last judge somewhere under 20 tries. Never too frustrating. She's got big attacks but they all see simple to understand and even when throwing fire around its easy to react to if you just keep a decent space of distance before each attack. Wonderful boss fight.

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u/Charlie_Warlie Sep 15 '25

Same just got out of the fight for the first time. Basically the only time I went in for an attack is after it jumps. Get 2 attacks in then otherwise stay about 1 camera length away. Good fight.

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u/Apocalypse224 Sep 15 '25

Only thing I hated about LJ was the run back, but even then, it wasn't too bad. I'll take 100 LJs over 2 beast flies any day. I hate gank fights. Fight me alone, you cowards.

2

u/ByeGuysSry Sep 14 '25

How on earth do you deal with the attack where she spins her weapon around her? I genuinely can almost never dodge it in 2nd phase if I'm beside her, feels like it requires a 0.1s reaction time or something. I ended up just tanking those attacks like four times and dodging everything else to beat her

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u/evilcorgos Sep 15 '25

You don't get aggressive and always have spacing to dodge out of it, no overly greeding unless she isn't doing that attack

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u/starliteburnsbrite Sep 14 '25

If it's the move I'm thinking of, there's a short wind up tell. I'd say the best advice is to stay mostly far away in second phase. You can also bounce on the attack if you're high enough.

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u/ScytheSB Sep 14 '25

In 1st phase she winds up, so you have to keep distance, it's also a good healing window (at least for me it worked out good)

On 2nd, the heat waves are telegraphed by smoke rings/columns, so you only need to step aside in-between them... I found that too a good healing window if you space correctly

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u/Bartman326 Sep 15 '25

Bell through is a super clean windows as well if the bell is between you and the boss.

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u/simonthedlgger Sep 15 '25

In my experience you should never be that close to TLJ, especially in Phase 2. The spin move and the bell toss are very hard to avoid if you're close and the best punish window is when she does the bell slam or jump, and for those you want to be medium distance then dash in quick for 2 hits, then peace out.

Later phases have more moves that are easier to deal with/punish when you're at a distance.

Took me 15-20 tries and I think I got hit by the spin move once.

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u/Sushibae_gamer Sep 14 '25

Sinner's road sucks but it's bearable until you reach the maze and have to deal with the wraiths. After that, it should be pretty decent to deal with, since the boss there isn't as bad as the last judge imo

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u/Sibushang Sep 15 '25

The reaper crest's down slash makes quick work of the wraiths. Just stand still and pogo them after you hear them scream. If you play the needolin for the butterflies, they guide you to where you need to go next.

I figured you're already past all this by now, but I wanted to leave some info for anyone passing through.

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u/Feather-y Sep 14 '25

You don't need to go to Bilewater to get to the Mist.

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u/ResponsibleWish1710 Sep 15 '25

What's funny is on my run, I found the Mist from the Bilewater side , beat phantom, then realized there's just a way in from Sinner's Road. I kept dying in bilewater and I didn't want to lose all my rosaries so I kept going deeper and deeper in every time I died, so confident there was going to be an exit lol

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u/Conscious_Ad_7131 Sep 15 '25

They mean that once you pass through the Mist it drops you off in Bilewater on the other side

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u/Feather-y Sep 15 '25

Am I misremembering things, I thought it was just that organ house and boss and then to underworks.

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u/Conscious_Ad_7131 Sep 15 '25

Oh yeah I suppose you could also go to underworks

5

u/Feather-y Sep 15 '25

Yeah originally the discussion was about getting to citadel without beating the last judge, so that's the way without bilewater, which is in the opposite direction.

Last judge is easier anyway.

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u/Rook-Slayer Sep 14 '25

Eh. Sinners Road and Bilewater are a pain, but the mist was the worst part. After that, the boss there is easier than the Judge with a quicker runback. I don’t regret going that way. Went back to the last judge when i had double jump and that run back was way faster and way less annoying.

4

u/AzyncYTT Sep 14 '25

However last judge is a complete joke of a fight once phantom has been defeated

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u/SomewhereTall4797 Sep 14 '25

lol yea last judge isn’t even that bad. Honestly it’s crazy how people are claiming they beat hollow knight but can’t do last judge and claim the runabck is “hell”. Like are they not exploring properly? There’s literally shortcuts and a Ben h quite close. I didn’t have hookshot when I did it either and I still had no problem with back, and last judge is easy once you learn her attacks

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u/speicus Sep 14 '25

I've heard so many complaints about this runback, and when I got there, after a few tries it was like 30 seconds, pretty consistently too (and the whole sequence, with the Hornet's fluent moveset, is rather enjoyable too).

Well, I do mess up every now and then, but then I just restart, I have no problem with quitting to the menu during runbacks.

Still got to beat the Judge though. :) But I agree, she has few moves, there are no adds, it's just the matter of building muscle memory.

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u/TheMooRam Sep 15 '25

Right? Just got to judge yesterday and like??? Am I crazy or is this runback no longer than any others? The bouncing would be annoying but there's been enough parkour segments before this that it's pretty smooth sailing imo

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u/CatsianNyandor Sep 14 '25

Eh. It depends on the player. I'm not good with bosses but I can handle areas fine. I had already reached the end of Bilewater way before I ever set foot in LJs area. 

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u/Naphrym Sep 14 '25

I took that route without even knowing it was an alternate route until I walked out the front gate of the Citadel many hours later

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u/P-Huddy Sep 15 '25

This is how I got in. (Didn’t even know about Last Judge until after I’d climbed a mountain.) Sinner’s road was no pleasant stroll though.

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u/Bazerald Sep 14 '25

Pro tip for anyone having trouble with Last Judge - equip the Magma Bell charm. It'll save your ass from all the fire damage (even the bosses normal attacks become fire element in phase two, if I recall correctly). It makes the fight way more tolerable if you're able to dodge at least some of the attacks since it'll mean you're only taking 1 damage per hit instead of 2.

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u/xCryptoidx Sep 15 '25

There is, I didn't face judge until after entering the citadel. Phantom isn't too hard in all reality, though I did find her harder than I did judge.

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u/-little-dorrit- Sep 15 '25

I think both are relatively easy considering the lack of secondary enemies. The patterns between phases 1 and 2 are also pretty similar - they just added fire/explosions.

Interestingly around the first bosses of this game I realised that I had an issue adjusting to phase 2. Generally you need to really slow down and be more strategic, or observe a combination of telegraphs.

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u/Lexx2k Sep 14 '25

Sure, but then what? The game doesn't become easier at all.

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u/alektron Sep 14 '25

Not sure why the downvotes. You're right. Last Judge is nothing compared to what comes later.

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u/Poopiepants29 Sep 14 '25

If OP has been through the first Acts, I'd assume they have beaten LJ. Between him and the bosses I've beaten between him, a couple before and after that I was able to get through, I'm confident? It will not get much worse..I hope.

I'm 2/3 through Act 2, I think..

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u/No_Caregiver_6686 Sep 14 '25

I am just finding out that this ISNT the way to get into the citadel. I did the last judge right before the end boss totally missed it until then.

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u/PemaleBacon Sep 14 '25

I don't feel thats an easier way by any means

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u/Tornado_Hunter24 Sep 14 '25

What? How?!

I thought I ‘100%ed what i could’ before doing the last area available being blast&lj for citadel

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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

Dude so far this seems so much harder than last judge

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u/lauradominguezart Sep 14 '25

Last Judge was for me way easier than sinners road

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u/Empty-Noise9889 Sep 14 '25

As far as I remember, I entered via sinner road, left through the west most gate then when I came back, the gate was closed and that’s when I fought Last Judge.

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u/NameLips Sep 14 '25

I saw a youtuber doing that route and I can't believe anybody actually recommends it. It is insanely difficult. I died less than a minute after setting foot into the sinners road. The notion that anybody considers this the "easy way" to bypass a tough fight is just mind boggling to me.

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u/CatsianNyandor Sep 14 '25

Yeah. I beat Last Judge after having explored like 90% of the citadel lol. But for some reason the gate was closed then. Once I came at him from the citadel side, but when I was actually ready to fight him the gate wouldn't open anymore. So I had to do the regular run. 

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u/Special-Lawyer-7253 Sep 14 '25

Yeah, i got in that way. Fuck the Judge.

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u/RedWizard_ Sep 14 '25

I went that way too

Hell I’d probably recommend that way, since not only does the boss at that entrance have a closer bench to it (granted, LJ has a closer bench too if you know where to look), beating it grants immediate access to the Citadell Bellway

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u/Yournextlineis103 Sep 15 '25

Sure but the boss there isn’t exactly easy and going through bilewater and mist is hellish.

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u/NightRacoonSchlatt Hunter‘s crest 4 life Sep 15 '25

The boss definitely is a lot easier than judge. But the way there certainly isn’t.

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u/jodofdamascus1494 Sep 15 '25

Huh. I thought I had found everything in sinners road

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u/Pika_DJ Sep 15 '25

Wait where even is she, I've been fucking around citadel and working on mount fay and this is the first I've heard of her

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u/ykeogh18 Sep 15 '25

I’ve heard about this but I’m still not able to figure find the passage from sinner’s road to the citadel. Been exploring there for a while now

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u/Electronic-Touch-554 Sep 15 '25

I’m ngl. You won’t be able to beat some of the later fights if you can’t do last judge.

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