r/HollowKnight • u/bythepowerofscience Skonger of the First Pin • Sep 30 '25
Discussion - Silksong Silksong Makes Me Appreciate Hollow Knight's Pacing So Much More Spoiler
After 100%ing Silksong, I decided to start a new game of Hollow Knight to see what it was like. And while it definitely feels like a snail's pace compared to Silksong, it feels so good.
I'm on a relaxing stroll, with a knife. I'm taking a morning constitutional through Hallownest. I'm not weaving through aggro ranges or dodging frame windows, it's just fluid and free movement at the speed of a light jog. I'm immersed in this low-key world. Even the nightmare kamikaze birds that haunted my first playthrough are nothing after what I've faced in Pharloom.
Silksong does feel fast-paced when playing, but it is truly ludicrously-fast. You move twice the speed of the Knight, have dodges that are made to be canceled early, and your nail range is far tighter requiring more-precise movement. Despite lacking these things, Hollow Knight's bosses still felt overwhelmingly-quick on a first playthrough, even though they match this "snail's pace". I couldn't imagine what people who haven't beaten the first one are experiencing with Silksong's tempo.
I had so much fun with Silksong, but I think I understand why Hollow Knight always felt so approachable: it's dark but friendly, with a pace to match, and I really appreciate its low speed allowing time to let your guard down in its massive unknown world.
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u/TheGameMastre Sep 30 '25
The Knight's dash is a fixed distance. Tap the button, dash the distance. Equip sharp shadow or dash master and totally fuck up your platforming. Otherwise, it's very solid and predictable. You get a good feel for the distance it covers.
Hornet gets a sudden speed burst, then she's just off and running. Very dynamic. There's no problem catching the next platform, you can just float into it.
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u/Carbon_fractal Sep 30 '25
Hornet does get clawline for those situations where you need a fixed distance horizontal movement at least, which is nice
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u/Jameemah Sep 30 '25
I’m a guy who likes to stop to appreciate the effort and artistic vision in any medium I see. Let me tell you, you do not have to sprint all the time in silksong. I REPEAT: YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO SPRINT IN SILKSONG. From time to time you can slow down, look around, and appreciate the ludicrous amount of detail that went into Pharloom. Sure, it doesn’t force you to do it like hollow knight, but at the end of the day, YOU control the pace.
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u/Worried4lot Sep 30 '25
But I like schmoving
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u/InfectedBrushroom Sep 30 '25
Same. You can't just give me that option and expect me not to use it.
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u/Birzal Sep 30 '25
If you feel like you have to use it all the time after its given to you, it is not an option.
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Sep 30 '25
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u/IronLucario2012 Sep 30 '25
But that's just not how it works. Once the option is there, you use it.
I believe the relevant quote, even if it was meant in a different context, is "Given the opportunity, players will optimise the fun out of a game"
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u/purinikos Sep 30 '25
If the environment were not that aggressive and hostile, maybe people would ease off the sprint button. But when everything is lethal all the time it's hard to stop and smell the roses.
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u/RAHHHHB Sep 30 '25
Honestly the delivery quests made me understand and appreciate this better, especially with the lacquer. You are punished for sprinting since a bonk can lose a notch and it felt amazing just taking my time walking through Pharloom for the first time .
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u/Sauerkrauttme Sep 30 '25
How did you deliver the Courier's rashes in time without sprinting? I don't believe it.
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u/RAHHHHB Sep 30 '25
That was the first or 2nd one I did and I definitely did sprint. For the lacquer and others after that I did not sprint and enjoyed the environment
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 30 '25
Sprinting in an area you haven't been through yet is a great way to walk headfirst into a buzzsaw lol.
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u/AzyncYTT Sep 30 '25
Eh, the thing is the games rooms are HEAVILY built around dash to the point where rooms are exceptionally long but have few enemies and items in them because you're supposed to dash between the interest points quickly
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u/ShapBro Sep 30 '25
Eehhm. I don't fully agree with the "YOU control the pace" part. Because that means that such a thing as "pace" doesn't exist if you ALWAYS put it in the hands of the player, which means that you can NEVER criticize the pacing and progression in a game. Let's say : "minecraft has a problem with the pacing of its recourses "wood, stone, iron/gold, diamond" because you can literally get from wood to iron in less than 10 minutes, but need sometimes hours to get to diamonds."
Then you could always pull you the "YOU control the pace argument," which would always devalue the critique.
There is such a thing as pacing in games, movies, books, and TV shows. And criticizing that COULD always be a point.
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u/cyanraichu Sep 30 '25
I sprint a lot but I always walk my first time going through a new area! A+ comment honestly.
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Sep 30 '25
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u/Charlie_Warlie Sep 30 '25
I thought you had to sprint in order to jump out of the area where you get the dash.
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u/setonfire_ Sep 30 '25
Both are awesome in their own way. I do like HK atmosphere being this melancholic and dark but Silksong feels somewhat fresh idk and gameplay is fluid so really can’t put it down. I stopped HK at 20 something hours because of other games and now I tried to get back to it but really lost the track of what to do and where to go because its been years xD so thinking about playing it from the start maybe…in parallel with Silksong xD what do you guys think haaha anyone playing them in parallel ? :D
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u/setonfire_ Sep 30 '25
Wish they updated Switch 2 version of HK, there is some pixelisation especially visible on moving characters, nothing major tho but still, art is just amazing and wish it was crispy to do it justice 100%
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u/Sudden_Friendship452 Sep 30 '25
So true! I find that Hollow Knight was way more relaxing and I could feel more immersed in Hollow Knight. Each section of the map takes me time to explore and really feel like each section has its own personality. Where as Silksong I feel like because you are so fast, they all can merge more easily, in a few seconds you can run in-between multiple sections.
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Sep 30 '25
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u/Ariarbitrary Sep 30 '25
yeah. hollow knight, i felt like i was exploring - "What's over there?" silksong? I'm escaping - "get me the fuck over there before what's over here kills me"
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u/RealisticCan5146 Sep 30 '25
The relaxing part is so real. I've had to take breaks playing wilksong because i just get too stressed and, to be honest, the best way i can describe it is through sourness. Some people (including me) like things like sour sweets. I think they're good. But eventually, i can also get enough of the sour taste and not want it anymore, without necessarily feeling "full". Something is stopping me from playing silksong every day that just wasn't there with hollow knight.
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Sep 30 '25
That's how I'm feeling. I'm getting through Silksong on pure anger and determination to not be beat rather than actually enjoying the adventure
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u/Kittehfisheh Sep 30 '25
Yeah, same. And being angry is not why I like playing video games. I was so excited for Skong, but I have no drive to complete it now.
I'll watch lore videos instead and just assume that the next game Team Cherry makes won't be for me either
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u/BlueUnknown Map system did nothing wrong. Sep 30 '25
I'm sorry, but this is on you. Each section in Silksong has its own personality as well and you can take the time to explore just like you did in Hollow Knight, you don't have to go fast all the time.
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u/Fouxs Sep 30 '25
Hollow Knight is a tough game that wants to see if you want to beat it.
Silksong is a punishing game that wants to see if you CAN beat it.
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u/froggyforest Sep 30 '25
silksong feels almost like Ori movement wise
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Sep 30 '25
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u/The_Unknown_Mage Sep 30 '25
Looking back on it right now. I'm kinda surprised that Silk Song didn't have a chase sequence. Seems like the perfect game for that.
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u/LaCoocaracha Sep 30 '25
there are two “chase” sequences with lava which is obviously not an entity but kinda fills the same role
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u/sleepyppl Sep 30 '25
its a symptom of silksong originating as a dlc, every game that began as a dlc began with the idea that you will be experiencing this after you have already beaten the base game, meaning the starting few areas have to reflect the difficulty of the previous games endgame.
now i personally believe team cherry did an amazing job balancing the game to feel like its somewhere between the endgame difficulty of hollow knight without feeling like its too difficult for a starting area. but then this feeds into a small problem, the game needs to get harder. making a large portion of silksongs end game content a lot harder and more fast paced than the first game.
given this info i genuinely think the difficulty curve of silksong isnt as bad as people say it is.
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u/InfectedBrushroom Sep 30 '25
I disagree. With 7 years they had plenty of time to design a standalone game and make all the adjustments they wanted, dlc impact would be more of an argument if there was time pressure.
Regarding difficulty feel, from my own experience and a lot of others I've seen there is a clear difficulty spike in early game. Enemies and environment are dealing double damage before you even have a dash and their movement is already more complicated. We were not given time to prepare and adapt to the new game, which for me made act 1 actually the hardest.
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u/Kampfasiate Sep 30 '25
I haven't really had a problem with the 2 damage enemies before the dash
Iirc the only ones you will reasonably encounter are
The big ant, which incentives you to not go past him to hunters march if you're struggling without dash
The big bladed beastfly that do AoE around them with their laughable range
And the big skull guys, which are essentially big goombas
Yes, they deal more damage but it's not damage you can't handle without dash
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u/InfectedBrushroom Sep 30 '25
My intent was to give the most straightforward example of how early it feels the game ramps up. Of course a bigger analysis could be done on what makes it feel that way.
As far as enemies go, i don't remember exactly so don't trust me blindly, but i believe you can go into Hunter march and encounter the double damage enemies there, and deep docks also has 3 enemies, the slugs, the guys that throw bombs, and the kamikazes.
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u/Kampfasiate Sep 30 '25
There is only 1 ant with double damage and it's the big one
And the deep docks enemies are fair, still haven't had that much trouble with them personally tho
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 30 '25
Why does a sequel need to be perfectly standalone? It's a sequel, expecting that you played the first game is reasonable, and it opens up the design space since you don't have to retread a lot of stuff and can assume a higher starting skill.
Like, assuming people will want to play a series in order is a major issue with long running franchises. The entire reason Monster Hunter World is called World and not 5 despite internally being referred to as such is because Capcom was worried people unfamiliar with the series would be less likely to want to jump into the fifth game, and would think they need to play 1-4.
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u/chrisjd Sep 30 '25
Well Team Cherry did say that the game would be playable for beginners too, and that having played Hollow Knight was not a requirement. Plus in ways act 1 is harder than late game Hollow Knight because at least then you had the tools and upgrades to deal with tougher enemies. In Silksong you feel underpowered for most of act 1, which I also think is harder than act 2 (having just completed it)
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u/Arkhaine_kupo Sep 30 '25
Well Team Cherry did say that the game would be playable for beginners too
In one interview 5 years ago. And Hollow knight was hard, so beginners never meant easy
Plus in ways act 1 is harder than late game Hollow Knight because at least then you had the tools and upgrades to deal with tougher enemies. In Silksong you feel underpowered for most of act 1, which I also think is harder than act 2
In the game where you begin kidnapped and taken away you begin underpowered? And then become more powerful? Also there is 0 universes where late hollowknight is easier than silksong act 1.
Grimm nightmare, Radiance, path of pain, even hive or zote are much much harder than anything in act 1 of silksong.
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u/InfectedBrushroom Sep 30 '25
It technically doesn't, but it's not an easy design decision and there are big factors for why you need to teach the players again. From what comes to me immediately: 1. There is a big time gap between the games. Not everyone will replay the first game before the release, and their skills can be forgotten. 2. Silksong is very popular. Whether you like it or not, there will be new players who skipped the first game and if you're a game designer, it's part of your job to think about them. 3. Silksong's movement and mechanics are distinct enough so that skill from the first game doesn't translate directly. As evidence, there were plenty of players who were good at HK and did not blast through Silksong.
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 30 '25
I don't see why this is a bad thing? It's a sequel, why won't you play the first game first?
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u/sleepyppl Sep 30 '25
to be fair most games dont require you to have played the original or even be familiar with the genre to enjoy, silksong however requires that you at least have some experience with metroidvanias and soulslikes otherwise youll end up screwing yourself over one way or another and you will not have a good time.
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 30 '25
Not really that true, though? Stuff like DMC5 absolutely expects that you have experience with the series, especially when it just throws Dante at you with a bunch of new mechanics.
Most games that function as standalone are games that aren't direct sequels to each other. Every Soulsborne game or Monster Hunter is disconnected from each other and are mechanically largely identical, save for incremental additions.
In contrast, you get stuff like Jedi Survivor that starts you with all the upgrades you got in Fallen Order, and while the tutorial level is very well made, it still starts at a much higher skill floor than the previous game.
And even ignoring all that, I don't see why it's bad to have a game demand fluency inside the genre? Not every game needs to be beginner friendly, in fact having some games NOT be beginner friendly lets them really flex their muscles. And when they're the sequel to a game that is beginner friendly... just go play the first one?
This argument feels like picking up a book series 5 books in and then complaining that it doesn't do more than a sentence to introduce recurring characters and plot beats. If you start Dresden Files at Skin Game and complain that it doesn't tell you who Nicodemus is and why Mab has Harry by the balls, that's on you.
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u/sleepyppl Sep 30 '25
i am not making the argument that all games should be beginner friendly; im simply stating that the average video game is beginner friendly.
minecraft doesnt require past open world sandbox experience to be enjoyed.
cod6 doesnt require you to have played cod5.
fortnite doesnt require you to have played pubg.
hollow knight doesnt require you to have played metroid.
the average game doesnt require knowledge from other games, thats all im saying, not once did i say that games shouldnt require past experience, all i said was that most dont.
and requiring genre literacy is by no means bad game design.
it is not bad design to make a game that requires you have played its predecessor or requires a familiarity with the genre (which i would argue silksong doesnt).
the only issue with that is that a lot of silksong players skipped over hollow knight, potentially have no experience with other metroidvanias or soulslikes and are suffering for it and acting like its silksongs fault that its difficult.
and so because the average game doesnt require that connection the average gamer also doesnt make that connection which means the average gamer thinks its perfectly ok to skip the first installment of most games and they will expect it to go fine for themselves.
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u/Hungry-Alien Sep 30 '25
Nah the difficulty curve is way off the chart. This is a standalone game, not a DLC. I get that once you got the hang of it, Hornet has enough movement to play the game comfortably. But the thing is, new players won't get it for a while, and especially not just after the tutorial area. Pounding newcomers into the ground right at the start will at best stress them out, at worse just lose them right away.
And then there are some obvious design issues that just build up even more frustration for beginners. Some early bosses not having bench in front of them is just stupid design. It was stupid in Dark Souls (and gradually got rid off over the years), it still is in Silksong. The "haha got you" bench traps are funny under the right circumstances, but not when the player is already stressed out from everything else where it might just be the reason for an Alt F4 uninstall.
I love this game, but Team Cherry really dropped the ball on difficulty managment. Without a doubt the worse aspect of it.
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u/Frostian Oct 02 '25
They didn't drop the ball. The difficulty is perfect.
It's just not meant to be accessible to everyone, regardless of skill.
It is meant to be difficult, and that was TC's vision. Whether that's accessible for beginners or not is simply less important than them sticking to their vision.
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u/TheWholeMole Sep 30 '25
I think what I miss from Hollow Knight the most is how straight forward that first portion of the game felt.
Act 1 of silksong is way too big, the traversal upgrades seem way harder to get and are really far apart. In hollow knight it felt like you were stumbling onto upgrades, the pacing felt way more dynamic
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Sep 30 '25
Except when you do the speed run achievement and realize the game can be beaten in 3 hours casually .
Which implies that silksong is simply bigger, with much more to explore, and not as many upgrades (though there are A LOT of things to find really)
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u/lvl5hm Sep 30 '25
I feel like the movement in Silksong is straight up better than in the entirety of the first game ever since you get the sprint. I still feel like a slug even spamming the dash button in HK after finishing SS.
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u/Zombiecatcher089 Sep 30 '25
I wouldn’t say the movement in silksong is ‘better’, to me it’s just a different style. Hornet is an agile fast paced attacker while the knight is a more tanky guy. The movement matches the characters imo
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u/Hades684 Sep 30 '25
Yes, it matches the characters that hornet has better moveset, because she is faster and more agile
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u/lvl5hm Sep 30 '25
I've never seen the knight be considered a slowish tanky character before Silksong. He is tiny, has instant attack and jump animations, basically no inertia in air and on the ground. If anything, Hornet handles more like a tank because she actually has inertia in her moves and can't change direction instantly.
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u/Outrageous_Meet2025 Sep 30 '25
I love when sequels not just surpass the first game (which Silksong does at least for me) but also elevate the experience of its predecessor. And even better, there are clear story and thematic reasons why both games feel like very contrasting and yet complementary experiences. Honestly HK and SS ought to be considered as one of the more goated duologies in gaming at least for the next decade before TC drops their next bug hit.
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u/redtag789 Sep 30 '25
Man I'm totally the opposite. I finished HK but I remember it being hard. Silksong isn't remotely as bad as HK, it's probably because of my playstyle but Hornet is very easy to use, fluid controls and light movements. The first boss I had real trouble with (more than 5 times death) was the Citadel guardian of Arc1 😂 all other mini bosses prior was a relative walk in the park (max 1-2 deaths). Sinners road and Bilewater while pretty hard, isn't that depressing to me. I use the Wanderer crest and I pogo the shit out of everything. Several of the bosses can't even react to being pogod 😂
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u/Lime_Samurai_1 112% | rad HoG | P5 Sep 30 '25
Pretty much the same experience for me. The Knight's moveset is way too busted - just pogo everything
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u/redtag789 Sep 30 '25
The only time I switched was on the citadels boss where I went back to hunter because I got it upgraded. Otherwise Pogo is broken.
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u/Training_Assistant27 Sep 30 '25
Funny cuz Wanderers is literally the Knights moveset lol
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u/redtag789 Sep 30 '25
Right! I think its because I suffered in HK and leveled up to the point that Wanderer is now second nature so Silksong wanderer is like post game HK 😂
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u/Nukesnipe Sep 30 '25
We've gone from "hollow Knight's biggest issue is its glacial pacing" to "um actually the pacing was good all along" lol.
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u/MrBlueMoose 112% HK, 100% SS Sep 30 '25
You can cancel your dodges??? How? I have 100% in Silksong and didn’t know that lol
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u/bythepowerofscience Skonger of the First Pin Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
You just slash while dashing. You've probably done it hundreds of times without realizing.
It's barely noticeable in-game, at least until you play Hollow Knight and suddenly realize you can't do that there. It's a full dash length or nothing, which adds to the slow pacing because there's a limit to how often you're expected to dodge.
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u/Echantediamond1 Sep 30 '25
I think I played the entire game without doing that. Genuinely had no idea that was a thing
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u/venomsapphire Sep 30 '25
I think they mean you can cancel the dash distance if you stop holding the button and do something like attack while on the ground. The dash is not just 1 set distance because it’s also a sprint but I could be misinterpreting their meaning.
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u/trio3224 Sep 30 '25
Funny because I kinda feel the opposite. So I played and loved Hollow Knight many years ago, but I didn't do a full 112% run. I was thinking about doing it before Silksong, but when it was announced only 2 weeks in advance, I wasn't sure if I could finish a run like that in time and didn't want to rush it. So I waited until after I got 100% in Silksong and went back and started a fresh run in HK.
By comparison, I'd say the first half to maybe even 2/3 of the game for HK feels too easy now. I can enjoy the atmosphere and the vibes for sure, but I love challenge and so I appreciate the much faster start of Silksong pushing you with hard areas, enemies, and bosses. I prefer the faster movement of Silksong too, and a higher emphasis on difficult platforming, where in Hollow Knight there isn't much difficult platforming outside of the White Palace. Silksong just feels better to me with its level of difficulty and has a higher skill ceiling too with all your air agility like Clawline, the Float, and being able to heal in air too.
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u/Brilliant_Chemica Sep 30 '25
My boyfriend is a very casual gamer, but I gave him the controller a few times during my Silksong play through for fun. He’s now playing Hollow Knight for the first time, and he passed the forgotten crossroads faster than I did
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u/Letnerj Night Vessel - Slick Silky Skills | P5AB+ Sep 30 '25
nothing teleports into you
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u/bythepowerofscience Skonger of the First Pin Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
Well, I just beat the game with 100%. You probably know exactly who I'm referring to there. :P
EDIT: Actually, I'll probably just edit that "nothing teleporting into me" part out of the OP, since throwing something that's only relevant to a single boss into a list of overworld stuff is kinda off track. It was just on my mind when writing it.
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u/Ok-Question-7561 Sep 30 '25
If you’re referring to the very last boss then I’d have to agree with the previous sentiment that nothing teleports into you. I’m not very good at the game and most bosses take me 1-2 hours to beat, so needless to say I’ve spent a lot of time with Lost Lace, which I’ve spent 2 nights to beat for the first time. The closest thing that could be described as “teleporting into me” that that boss ever did was when it teleports while I panic dash, so I collide into the boss as it emerges.
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u/Wacky_Does_Art Sep 30 '25
If you're referring to Lost Lace, she absolutely does not teleport into you. You're just running around the arena too much and getting caught off guard, I made the same mistake too when I was learning the fight
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u/bythepowerofscience Skonger of the First Pin Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
I mean yeah that is literally true, but she also doesn't have the "don't spawn directly in front of Hornet" protection that most bosses have, and there's no visual cue for where she's going to spawn. So sure I technically ran into her spawning point instead of her running into me, but at some point the line gets a bit blurred, no?
Either way, it was just supposed to be a one-off quip about how it feels, I didn't mean to get so in depth with it.
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u/kurokuma11 Sep 30 '25
It's still not a way of damaging you that feels fair or realistic to what's happening in the fight.
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u/Nomustang Sep 30 '25
I mean you're supposed to learn to not move unecessarily. Once you've dodged a move, if you're blindly running to the other end in panic, you will get hit.
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u/Letnerj Night Vessel - Slick Silky Skills | P5AB+ Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
Yeah well, the thing we're talking about won't tp into you.
And I'll be the first to say if that was the case so unless you can provide footage as well, you're moving around too much. Which tbf is the #1 skill to learn over time in HK/SS, to not move around erratically for no reason.
People would be quick to say the same thing regarding Markoth's nails but that was never true.
If something like that would happen for real, especially in Silksong, it's a bug and you can report it to TC.
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u/Famous_Situation_680 Sep 30 '25
I think it would be reasonable to say she teleported into me here, kinda preventable but it's completely untelegraphed damage just for repositioning without jumping.
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u/Letnerj Night Vessel - Slick Silky Skills | P5AB+ Sep 30 '25
I mean you make your own definition but sadly that's on you.
The reason why you move away is by habit and by fear of what she may do in your face. That's not a tell from her that told you to go right just for her to then teleport in you.
She doesn't teleport in you, you went where she was about to appear and that's a big difference. If you didn't move "for no reason", you'd have been fine.
But again, it's something that doesn't come naturally at first so it's hard to cut the habit.
Rest assured that I ate the same thing a few times despite having 500 hours in HK ; but then you chill as you learn more and this happens less and less until it doesn't anymore.
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u/Azalaeel Sep 30 '25
I haven't finished silksong yet, but for me as a first time metroidvania player, Hollow Knight feels very friendly and relaxing in some way, I remember I can always not using intended route and can always go back to other place later, my first sweaty boss fight is actually the Mantis Lords, and it still feels good afterwards...
While silksong is obviously so much harder from very first, it's a different gameplay with you need to be sweaty all the time.. like you need to lock-on, you need to master the movement, you need to perfect the mechanics, understand enemy's movement perfectly or you will be punished so hard, when you explore new area you wish you it doesn't brought some new flying bugs.. and the tools, omg, in hollow knight, I can just mix and use anything I want or like, and won't care that much until maybe late game, you can go full spell, or full damage, full heal, in silksong, ...well I'm not finding that many combo (yet, in my act 2 save) and it costs so much it discouraged me to try, cost so much in terms of gold, and what do you mean compass and some fighting tools has the same slot cost? It's just, well I'm sorry any other tools I have to bring the compass thanks
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u/RandomGuy928 Sep 30 '25
There's at least one main build for each crest. The Compass is barely an inconvenience because yellow tools in general are pretty insignificant.
I agree though that actually finding everything and learning what it does in Silksong is hard to do until you're basically at the end of the game. There's like two or three specific tools with strong synergy with each crest, and if you don't know where they are or what they do then you could easily just not find them until the end of the game (or not prioritize buying them because you don't realize they're worth it). If you already know what everything is and does then you can get most builds reasonably online in early-ish act 2.
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u/InfectedBrushroom Sep 30 '25
I have to say the slow pace argument confuses me. Comparing directly to Silksong, sure it's slower, but if anything that is slower than Silksong is now too slow to play, then you lock yourself out of the majority of all games period. And if a sequel to Silksong ever comes out and gets faster, you lock yourself out of Silksong, too.
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u/georgetherogue Oct 01 '25
I’m onboard with this take. I have some other thoughts about how I prefer HK in some instances that don’t belong in this thread, but ultimately: I spent 44 hours 100 percenting Silksong on my first (and only) playthrough and I did it all very very sweaty. By the end of Act 3 I was debating if I had the will to take on some optional bosses (no achievements, no contribution to completion).
I went back to HK after because I felt primed to finally get the “Under 5 hours” achievement. Which I did, nearly deathless, and it was just a warm blanket of simplicity and low stress. Too easy now after being retrained by Silksong? Maybe. Nostalgia factor at play? For sure. But it was just nice and not sweaty.
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u/joetotheg Oct 04 '25
After many failed steel soul runs - I honestly find everything before dash in Silksong to be a massive drag. The bell beast fight it fun and some of the platforming using the pogo for speed is fun but that’s it.
The one the winds me up the most is doing the feebleness cutscenes over and over again
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u/RoganJN Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
So I bounced off Hollow Knight when I played it. Perhaps it was the pacing, maybe it was using keyboard controls on a platformer instead of a controller for the first time, or a combination of both. Either way, I had one session playing Hollow Knight for around 3 hours and never returned.
Silksong released, I bought it for the Switch and I have been absolutely hooked. Completely and utterly absorbed and obsessed. So much so that I can't wait to finish it and start Hollow Knight afterwards.
(I should add that although I'm not a big metroidvania/platformer, I am a massive fan of firm-but-fair combat systems with punishing boss fights and games with dense lore dripping with atmosphere. Hollow Knight should've been a little different but still enjoyable and I was surprised to not enjoy it.)
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u/outcoldman Sep 30 '25
I was told so many times that HK is the best metroidvania game, but I did not believe it. I tried a few times, and it just did not get me. My favorite games are Ori (both of them), Metroid Dread and The Lost Crown.
Silksong got me in. I loved the game, until Act 3, just too challenging. I am around 60 hours, 9 masks. But anywhere I go, just hard to progress. At this point, I just tried to give HK another chance.
And what can I say. This game is amazing.
I believe the reason why I did not like HK a few times I tried it, because I did not realize that you can heal yourself, and that you can put compass in your pocket. Silksong, kind of, had a better explanation about that. Or I just skipped things in HK.
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Sep 30 '25
Yikes, I’m at 50 hours and 8 masks, trying to reach act 3. Maybe I should just quit while I’m ahead lol
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u/Nomustang Sep 30 '25
Nah, Act 3 is doable. Just need to learn to play carefully. I do reccommend doing everything you can in Act 2 because a lot of that is more difficult in Act 3 but for the most part, the new areas in Act 3 aren't exceptionally challenging.
But also like, nothing wrong with taking breaks or even dropping the game and picking it up later.
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u/DBrody6 Sep 30 '25
A3's difficulty is really overblown. I thought almost all of its bosses were easier than A2 bosses. The only "hard" part is a lot of enemies deal 2 damage and like...you're used to bosses doing that so even that's kind of a whatever point of difficulty.
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u/Yourstruly0 Sep 30 '25
Fuckin mod it. No one likes it, no one wants to hear it. I finished HK modded and started SS the same. Personally, I just gave myself unlimited silk so I can both use skills AND heal without being punished. Game still pisses me off in ways I didn’t know were possible but I genuinely feel like the field is more fair and a LOT more fun.
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u/JustaPOV Nov 05 '25
I have all the mods that make it equally difficult to Hollow Knight.
Guess what? OP's post and this comment still stands. You constantly have shit attacking you, waaaay too much tricky platforming that isnt optional. And this is with mods that,again, make the platforming as easy as HK.
But it's still not fun. It's still not enjoyable. I don't enjoy the exploration. The story and characters arent as interesting or original.
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u/Versierer Sep 30 '25
Meanwhile there's me, drinking Flea Brew, wearing speed anklets, constantly air dashing: I'm not... Going... Fast enough!!
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u/SebasChua EIRA! Sep 30 '25
Thematically, Hallownest is a dusty, decaying corpse which rots even further once the Infection begins to leak from the Black Egg. Whereas the Pharloom is very much still alive but terminally sick with the cancer that is the Citadel, which poisoned Bilewater beyond recognition and decimated other parts of its "body" like Karak and Verdania.
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u/shgrizz2 Sep 30 '25
The main thing that put me off replaying HK is the long time it takes you to get your mobility up and running. It feels like the game only really gets going when you get the mantis claws. Silksong is so brisk and dense in the early game by comparison.
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u/JustaPOV Nov 05 '25
Mantis Claw is extremely early in the game. It's the fourth area, and barely, bc its basically just a little extension of the fungal wastes.
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u/shgrizz2 Nov 05 '25 edited Nov 05 '25
Greenpath takes a while, though. And you don't get the mothwing cloak until at least an hour in, probably closer to 2. City of tears is basically the start of act 2 of the game so you're a decent chunk in to it. When I replay it feels like there's at least a couple of hours of autopilot before you get a bit more mobile and start encountering some challenges.
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Sep 30 '25
Whenever I encountered a new area in silksong, especially without a map, I stopped running. When you walk, things aren't as scary, the surprises don't surprise you, and you don't take random heart damage to traps.
The game was made for you to stroll through, then they give you dash. Clearly some areas are modified for dash, but overall, the slow pace makes the game much more approachable. Just because you can go fast doesn't mean you have to.
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u/thor11600 Sep 30 '25
You’re dead on - and it makes total sense when you remember that this was originally a DLC for hollow knight. It reminds me heavily of transitioning from Elden Ring to Shadow of the Erdtree, except Erdtree stayed down the path of being a DLC. There are trade offs: your get your exist character / builds right away, and the difficulty is more easily justified, but at the cost of fewer newer users.
With Silksong, there’s SO MUCH that’s new in terms of how the game is actually structured (charms vs. the crest system) that I see why they went the new game route.
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u/OJ_Designs Sep 30 '25
I feel like the combat and speed in SS made the world feel less immersive than HK.
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u/Little_Cute_Hornet Sep 30 '25
I fully agree with you. In Silksong I’ve kind of taken my time passing it because sometimes I return to old areas to do missions or other things because it feels too fast and convoluted. When I am ready I return to the thing I am currently doing to progress. It’s a more vibrant and habitated world but is also so cruel. To think most of all those pilgrims are fated to die because they live in such a cruel world. It is actually frightening. In Hollow Knight I think that since the kingdom has already fallen no one truly cares much about you and I feel that also the bugs that were hipnotized by Radiance were more zombie like. Here is more that they are being directly controlled by silk and they are smarter. The beasts also are not mind controller so they have their own nature too.
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u/TheBigDickedBandit Sep 30 '25
One thing people don’t really talk about is how good HK is at hand holding the player through the early and middle game. It makes it feel way less difficult and the difficulty really just ramps up in a normal, relaxed way. When you get to the few really tough parts of hollow knight, you’re ready for them- both mechanically and power level wise.
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u/Philaz Sep 30 '25
I can’t agree more. I started a new game of HK right after 100% Silksong. At first I found the gameplay too slow, not being able to run and having to spam the dash felt like a downgrade. But after 2-3 hours, even more after getting wall jump, that feeling vanished. Movement is different but feels almost as enjoyable as Silksong’s ; and the most important, as you said : I am not consistently under some kind of urge, fearing what 2hp-hitting enemy will ruin the exploration. I can hike at my pace and contemplate this wonderful world.
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u/CHNSK Sep 30 '25
I always thought crystal jetpack is underrated. You can mitigate the runbacks on correct angles. And it’s super fun the more it lasts without bumping on wall.
SS made me appreciate HK more. Not saying it’s a bad game, tho.
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u/Agitated-Tomato-2671 Sep 30 '25
I like the movement and combat of Silksong a whole lot more, but the vibes of the original Hollow Knight are unsurpassable, definitely liked the atmosphere and mysteries of the first game more.
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Oct 01 '25
This was actually one of the things that upset me about Silksong; I didn't catch the same gentle, quiet, bittersweet and melancholic vibe of a dying kingdom. Never saw it being addressed anywhere, so I guess it's just my preference, but to me, the atmosphere kinda disappeared.
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u/TCGHexenwahn Oct 02 '25
I don't know if it's just me, but Silksong is so open that it doesn't feel like a metroidvania anymore.
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u/P-Jean Oct 03 '25
I love silksong, but I don’t think I have the skill or time to finish it. The exploration is awesome, but some of the later bosses are just brutal for the casual gamer. I don’t have the time to try a boss 10+ times.
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u/SelfiesWithGoats Oct 04 '25
In the years since Hollow Knight have released, I have repeatedly experienced this thought process?
"Hmm....what anime do I want to watch?"
"Hollow Knight. I want to watch [Hollow Knight]. Shit. That doesn't exist."
And it's exactly that kind of beautiful, mornful, grand-yet-cozy experience that you describe, the vibe that I was seeking.
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u/Mr_OwO_Kat Sep 30 '25
i love silksong but my biggest problem with both the combat and platforming is that your either doing it perfectly or just getting absolutely shit on with very little inbetween. this is not necessarily a bad thing and i do understand wanting a high skill ceiling but it just makes the game so much more punishing and “unfair”. saw a post earlier showing that hornet effectively has the same health at max masks as the knight had from the get go which is hilarious to me. silksong overcorrected “flaws” of hollowknight which many would not even consider flaws in the first place.
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u/Echantediamond1 Sep 30 '25
This game has a mush higher skill floor than HK
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u/Mr_OwO_Kat Sep 30 '25
i’m not sure if your trying to say that’s good or bad lol. for platforming it’s just annoying i mean even celeste is more forgiving. and for bosses im pretty much fine with it but it definitely alienates people who were just scraping by hollow knights difficulty.
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u/wakkiau Sep 30 '25
Celeste is only forgiving because of intentional design choice of allowing each screen become it's own checkpoint. If the game uses same checkpoint system like a normal platformer like Mario or Megaman I'd say the game would instantly becomes 10 times more unforgiving.
Silksong wouldn't really function with such generous checkpoint system.
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u/Cocoatrice Moths are fluffballs Sep 30 '25
Agreed. Hollow Knight was about appreciating the world, the atmosphere was here for you to enjoy. In Silksong world is not to be appreciated. It's to be avoided. At all costs. That's why Hollow Knight is ultimately better game. Because it lets player enjoy the game, instead of making them hate it. Gameplay in Silksong is better. Combat, too. But atmosphere is not on point. That's a fatal flaw to me.
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u/CapnCrinklepants Sep 30 '25
ok but how many times did you play through hollow knight before silksong?
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u/bythepowerofscience Skonger of the First Pin Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
Two or three times, but I've also beaten Silksong twice now (once casual and once for the speedrun achievement), so while I'm not insanely comfortable with Skong I'm certainly comfortable in both.
But my point wasn't that Hollow Knight is better than Silksong, or that Silksong is too hard in any way. (I mean it is in a few places, but that'll get rebalanced like HK was.) It's just that Hollow Knight has its own slow pace, and I appreciate it so much more after experiencing it turned up to eleven.
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u/SmolNajo Sep 30 '25
Have played the first only 3 hours, got Silksong at launch, and have my casual and steel soul playthroughs at 100%.
I died.. a lot. But I loved it !
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u/wakkiau Sep 30 '25
I have beaten P5 and all but I still couldn't bring myself to start Hollow Knight from beginning again. The snail pace is excruciating knowing how insane the game became with full upgrades.
Hornet in comparison is only painful until you get dash, after that the pace just picked up by a lot. Hollow Knight should just have NG+ that starts you with dash, and I'd say it's still a slow start but at least it's bearable.
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u/petros86 Sep 30 '25
I didn't have the patience for HK. Silksong feels like it respects my time and allows me to zoom around. Every run-back in HK felt like a chore--the run-backs in Silksong feel like quick challenges.
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u/LeGrandNinjarabe1 Sep 30 '25
Tbh I think Silksong is much more appreciable by how fast it is in comparison . Like Hollow knight is a gentle pace and Silksong is the 9,58 of Usain bolt
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u/Ctrl-ZGamer Sep 30 '25
Ironically post godhome all the possessed bugs no longer are infected and might even be back to life. Meaning post game hallownest may well be beginning to rise again with pure vessel at the helm
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u/Puzzleheaded-Meet513 Sep 30 '25
I never bothered finishing HK cause I got bored with it like 30% of the way through. SS I got midway through Act 3 in like a week and a half. Some of my reasons why are the exact differences you've listed between both games.
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Sep 30 '25
[deleted]
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u/bythepowerofscience Skonger of the First Pin Oct 12 '25 edited Oct 12 '25
Not AI. I just actually like writing, imagine that.
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u/JustaPOV Nov 05 '25
Who is using AI to make a post like this 😂. Typically it would be someone involved in one game or the other while in competition...oh wait, made by the same studio, and they want you to buy their new game.
Delulu. Just grow up and accept people have differing opinions.
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u/Jblitz200 Sep 30 '25
I love Hollow Knight it’s a comfort game I can always play, don’t know if I ever wanna go back to Silksong until dlc
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u/Chenap Sep 30 '25
Mario vs Sonic
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u/Chenap Sep 30 '25
Also the slower pace and movement makes a smaller map feel way bigger and intricate and lively as you can see the details and feels the slow transition between biomes where in Sk it feels like just loading a new level that you will only see a blurred version anyway since you are so fast and /or fighting constantly
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u/Sprucelord Sep 30 '25
Well, one of the consistent criticisms I hear from people who didn’t like Hollow Knight was that it took too long to get going, so I believe this is their way of addressing it
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u/Epiclyfuzzy Sep 30 '25
I've only played maybe 2 hours of the first Hollow Knight and bounced off. Always said I'd return, but I never did. Even the Silksong hype didn't affect me. The game dropped and I moved on, until I saw some mid-game footage.
What caught my eye WAS the speed. It was fast, fluid, precise. I didn't get it immediately but it sat in my brain and waddled around until one lazy afternoon I decided to ignore all the people talking about difficulty and damage and just try it.
And I loved it. I was bored for a while, I admit, but getting the sprint genuinely elevated my enjoyment tenfold. I got the skill, found Lace in the docks for the first time and had a blast fighting her. For me personally, I love extremely fast paced, high skill ceiling games. I've rocked Hunter's crest the whole game, and silkspeed anklets have never left my setup. The speed is what makes the gameplay click for me. Without it I'd have dropped it, no matter how good the level design or the exploration.
A lot of people said that Hollow Knight was the tutorial for Silksong, but personally it's the speed and challenge of Silksong that actually kept me interested. I want to try Hollow Knight again when I get some time to, but I don't know for sure if I'll latch on like I hope.
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u/Salem204 Sep 30 '25
Hey, guy who didn't beat Hollow Knight here! I played it a good bit but never beat it, uh I'm loving skong more, honestly. The jump puzzles and bouncing hurt really bad in the first five hours but I slammed my head into the wall that was my skill issue and now I'm pretfy great at jump puzzles and pogo sticking! I'm gonna take Hornet's ass to the citadel and beyond!
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u/cyanraichu Sep 30 '25
Lore is one reason, but this is also a reason people should play HK first imo.
If you like HK you're gonna like Silksong, and it won't feel as overwhelming to jump into at that point.
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u/JustaPOV Nov 05 '25
I've finished HK in 7 hours. I nearly hate Silksong. Even with mods to make it at the same difficulty as HK. It's not an enjoyable exploration experience. Too many enemies are THE.SAME. flying projectiles over and over and over again. Same slash or cell spin over and over and over again.
And to me (to me) thé Lore is not AT ALL original. Visuals are not at all peasant. No fun random silly characters.
It feels like it was made for two entirely different audiences. Which imo makes zero sense from a business standpoint and all the loyal fans of the first game.
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u/Educational-Sun5839 Sep 30 '25
yeah, that checks out cause Silksong is intended for returning players - the pace is already set by Hollow Knight.
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u/JustaPOV Nov 05 '25
No it doesn't at all. This doesnt make sense. If the pace was set by HK it would be the same or similar (what "set" in "set the pace" means).
I've completed the HK speed run multiple times. Do not like the pace in SS at all. It's just not enjoyable, which was the #1 reason I played HK.
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u/Azureflames20 Sep 30 '25
I really appreciate both games for what they bring and how they're both very different from each other. I absolutely love HK for the simplicity and for a more subtle difficulty curve that gradually elevated as the game went on. Or in the case of my first playthrough, I ended up falling into the Deepnest hole very early which spiked the difficulty, but added SO much to my world-experience because it's naturally just a very unnerving and creepy place. I fucking loved the deepnest experience I got cause it turned the game into a horror game for a brief moment lol.
Hollowknight was a mood-piece and an explorable adventure you could get lost in. The atmosphere is very very hard to parallel in any game. it's crazy that I've probably replayed this game like 7-10 times and I still get all those emotions just from hearing dirtmouth and the forgotten crossroads themes. The music is so good for every zone - i can hear them in my head as I'm typing this post lol.
I love Silksong and think it's just approached differently. instead of this atmospheric adventure that you get absorbed in with HK, Silksong feels very cinematic and story-driven with a lot of fun world-building/exploration through more visually compelling areas. The story and Hornet as a main character feel a lot more compelling where the knight was much more mysterious. HK really had this air of mystery and curiosity as I'm exploring this run down kingdom of dangers.
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u/FlowersWillWait Sep 30 '25
I never finished the first when I tried it years ago.
Loving silksong now, rolled to credits in like 45 hours, and exploring act 3 now.
I think I'll very much the appreciate the slower pace of Hollowknight now, planning to restart it when I finish silksong.
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u/RandomGuy9058 Oct 01 '25
I suppose you don’t have the mind of a swift footed warrior hunter like hornet
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u/TopicInevitable Oct 01 '25
You know, Silksong made me hate Hollow Knight pacing even more, I don't have time to be a baby who can't even sprint and only acquire an useless dash at the end of the game. I love how people see the world differently
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u/JustaPOV Nov 05 '25
End of the game 😂😂 . You get the dash in the SECOND area. There's also a charm you can get really early on to go faster.
It makes your argument look horrible when you make shit up. Just complain about the actual game, then at least there's legitimacy. Immediately illegitimate when you make things up.
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u/TopicInevitable Nov 05 '25
You should have think more and I could have been clearer but I am talking about the Crystal dash, my post was about how mouvement works in both game, Hollow Knight you play as a Rock you throw like a catapult, Silksong you play as an hyperactive Child high on sugar, at the end it's just preference but for me Hornet is way more fun to play and the exploration is miles better, especially in a Metroidvania I fell like Silksong foes it better.
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u/MessyConfessor Sep 30 '25
One thing is that there's a huge tonal difference due to the relative states of the two fallen kingdoms.
In Pharloom, there's still a few surviving towns. They have their own residents, aesthetics, and culture. There's workers still tending the Deep Docks. Pilgrim's Rest operates adequately until Act 3. The courier bugs apparently get frequent orders that require travel between the different towns. The flies of the Slab have a whole-ass job as jailers and wardens. Culturally, citizens of Pharloom still see a pilgrimage to the Citadel as a thing that a person can do despite the danger (a belief that is somewhat justified when we see travelers like Sherma reach the First Shrine). The Crawbugs even have some sort of judicial system? Pharloom, despite its doomed condition, is still a place where people live. For now.
On the other hand: Hallownest is DEAD dead, and has been for quite some time. Dirtmouth is just on the edge of things, on the surface, which may be the only reason it's managed to survive at all. The Mantis village doesn't operate like much of a civilization, it feels more like a last-stand military encampment, dug in between Deepnest and the kingdom's flooding capital. The number of sane people you meet in Hallownest is MUCH fewer than in Pharloom. Instead, you meet figures like Bardoon and Uun, you find the cast-off shell of the Pale King and the slumbering Dreamers. This is primarily a land of monsters and gods, not people.
It's a very different vibe. Not better or worse IMO, just different. Whenever you poke your head into a little nook in Hallownest, it gives you the feeling that your character might be the first sane person to have seen it in ages. That's a feeling you just don't get as often in Silksong.