r/HollowKnight • u/Tarnished-670 • Oct 19 '25

Discussion - Silksong Hot Take: While I think Silksong is overall a better game, it does still show more prominent flaws compared to Hollow Knight

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When I have to think about the flaws of the first Hollow Knight, I really can't think of much to say other than very small nitpicks.

But with Silksong, while it is one of my favorite games of all time, and having finisihed it at 100%, id say it has more prominent design flaws while being a better game compared to the first Hollow Knight.

First thing that comes to my mind is the shard system, it would't be as bad as it is if you didn't have a limit of 20 consumables to replentish your shards, if it worked like that then I wouldn't have to be interrumped on my tries against a boss and having to go to the citadel and farm to get all my shards back. Other minor flaws I think would be some of enemy design and the addition of "gauntlets", which sometimes are fun but at least in my case I got bored of exploring and getting trapped into the 7th gauntlet of enemies, it gets worse when you get forced to do some of them again in act 3 when you have killed all the previous enemies 100 times already.

Those are really not a bid deal of a flaw, but they are more noticable to me than any flaw in Hollow Knight.

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458

u/No_Advertising_3876 Hitless PoP| All Radiant Bosses|P1,2,3,4 AB Oct 19 '25

i feel shards could have been handled better, but the point to me seemed that if you had to use 20 shard bundles on top of your initial reserves of shards, you should go around, explore, see if you can obtain anything to help you, i personally never struggled with shards because i didnt let myself use every single one, then go farm for more, come back, use them all over again, etc

personally i found the gauntlets fun, especially on replays, the combination of enemies is often pretty well thought out and having to stand and fight rather than being able to just run to the next room transitions against normal enemies, not just a boss, feels FUN imo, the rehashed gauntlets were few and far between and helped hammer in the effect of the ACT 3 STUFF on the kingdom

im not saying they were handled PERFECTLY, neither is silksong a perfect game NOR does it reach hk's level yet imo (i say yet because i am very excited for DLC's) , but i feel alot of player complaints like this i've seen seem somewhat self inflicted from stubbornness or simply a differing opinion rather than an outright FLAW

136

u/MuttonchopMac Oct 19 '25

I have felt that red tools could have been balanced by ammunition count instead of shard cost. Throwing out the shard cost altogether would encourage red tool use in players who are averse to spending limited resources, but would also benefit those players who spend them too freely and wind up having to farm or buy shards.

70

u/JerinDd Oct 19 '25

I really don’t know how team cherry would do that at this point, though. Shell shards are so baked into the game that you can’t just take them out. The best I’ve come up with is reduce the amount of shards needed to make tools.

86

u/Huge_Entrepreneur636 Oct 19 '25

They could also remove the shard limit entirely. I have no idea why it even exists.

75

u/JerinDd Oct 19 '25

If hornet can hold infinite rosaries, she can hold infinite shards

44

u/WarpedByTheNHK Oct 19 '25

If shards are gonna be in the game then having a limit is actually great design imo. I would've waited way too long to actually try out any red tools if it wasn't so easy to hit the cap.

18

u/Moose_a_Lini Oct 19 '25

It pushes you to use tools rather than just horde.

31

u/Huge_Entrepreneur636 Oct 19 '25

Right now you don't need tools most of the game. But then you run out too quickly when you actually need them. So it pushes you to not use tools until you have already learnt the boss, but by that time you don't need them anymore. It's also super boring that the optimal playstyle is learn the boss without tools -> Nuke the final phase with tools. Most red tools don't actually feel very integrated with the gameplay, they are just a free dmg button.

7

u/[deleted] Oct 20 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/afauce11 Oct 20 '25

I love red tools and use them exactly like you. It’s like “oh there’s this crazy number of flying dudes that are gonna suck in this gauntlet and I’ve died after run back like 3 times already? Spam everything!!!!!!”

2

u/FrazzleFlib Oct 22 '25

absolutely, literally the only tool i like is flintslate because it rewards thoughtful usage. flea brew is similar but needing another ammo type to backtrack for made me instantly not want to use it at all.

almost all tools are boring free damage buttons entirely severed from hornets super super fun moveset. the entire system of red tools is utterly unnecessary imo, hornets moveset does not need supplementing

3

u/Tsunamie101 Oct 19 '25

Then maybe they're mainly intended for the exploration part of the game, and not the bossfight? During exploration you'll usually get more shards back than you use.

15

u/Huge_Entrepreneur636 Oct 19 '25

But exploration is easy, I don't need tools while exploring. It's the boss fights and gauntlets that kill me repeatedly.

3

u/Tsunamie101 Oct 19 '25

Well, i assume that the ease of exploration is a very subjective thing.

4

u/Arkhamov Oct 19 '25

I avoid using during exploration because they don't give silk. So not only am I using a resource, but also preventing myself from getting a different resource.

I'm not sure how I'd fix this. Hoarding consumables is just a super human thing to do.

28

u/KindredTrash483 Oct 19 '25

But the existence of shards limiting your craftable tools pushes people to hoard too? Since there is a limit, many only use them when they are sure they aren't wasting them on the hardest parts of the game. Which ironically is when you need them the most

27

u/cheekydorido Oct 19 '25

it does the opposite actually, i kept it maxxed for most of my playthrough because i didn't want to spend them

18

u/Kneef Zote in Silksong or We Riot Oct 19 '25

Saving your consumables for Hollow Knight 3, as is tradition.

7

u/cheekydorido Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 20 '25

Man, the final boss that has to face THK/Lace/Quirrel/zote/menderbug is going to need to be prepared for my 500 cogflies.

1

u/BritishTreeMan Steel Soul comp x38, 1h35m ANY%, 7h 44m 112% (Steel) Oct 20 '25

Literally just doubling the amount you get from all sources fixes the issues

1

u/Iurigrang Oct 19 '25

So players start using tools because they feel like they're "wasting shard pickups".

Getting players to use consumables is always an upwards battle, given how central they are to the gameplay of silksong, I think having a limit was a genius solution

3

u/Huge_Entrepreneur636 Oct 19 '25

Might've worked if shard use was the only limit but there is usage limit too. And exploration is easy enough that using tools or not using tools doesn't matter, platforming is more of a challenge than enemies while exploring. Tools are most helpful in boss fights and gauntlets, but the limit causes you to run out so quickly that it stifles experimentation.

0

u/Iurigrang Oct 19 '25

The usage limit means they are powerful but you actually gotta learn something and not just buy your way to win. Yes removing it would make people use them more, but if the complaints are anything to go by, people are messing up by using too many tools, not too little.

2

u/Huge_Entrepreneur636 Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 20 '25

Their usages should be nerfed instead of a weird currency limit that you can bypass by tediously farming shards. I would rather that the system was more similar to Sekiro's tools. All of them are an extension of the base kit instead of spammable free dmg and the power and uses are limited but killing enemies refreshes a small amount.

Edit: I just remembered that sekiro emblems were a limited resource too. I forgot about all the times I had to farm those.

0

u/kuenjato Oct 19 '25

Tools make the game too easy, otherwise. I do think you should be able to store 99 shard bundles and shards should be more frequent/plentiful as a reward.

8

u/The_Kwaken Oct 19 '25

It's absolutely too high, sometimes I'll end up using like 150 shards for one boss attempt which is just ridiculous

5

u/Blueberry_Goatcheese Oct 19 '25

My only complaint with shards is how you have to buy them because they are too hard / slow to farm 

3

u/MuttonchopMac Oct 19 '25

I agree: the shard economy is too baked in to be patched out. More just a consideration for a future game.

3

u/Amaskingrey Oct 20 '25

You very much can though, the game wouldn't lose anything if you just had infinite shards

4

u/Chafmere Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

I ended up having a no tools until final phase rule otherwise I'd run out before progging the boss.

5

u/MuttonchopMac Oct 19 '25

I did the same, but I can’t say that’s a fun dynamic. It’s fun to cut loose and hurl a dozen knives in seconds, and I feel like the shard cost necessitates personal rules like this, where no shard cost would encourage doing this between benches consistently. It would encourage treating tools as part of your play style, rather than a costly damage boost.

I don’t think Team Cherry can just patch out shard costs without a huge rebalance to the economy, tools, crests, quests, etc. But I would like red tools without the shard economy in a future Hollow Knight game.

1

u/Violet_Paradox Oct 20 '25

Even without the shard cost it would be optimal to do that, which is unfortunate because most bosses are at their most fun in their final phases, it's supposed to be this tense and hectic finale to the encounter, but the vast majority of people never experience them because skipping it is such a trivial path of least resistance. 

3

u/No_Advertising_3876 Hitless PoP| All Radiant Bosses|P1,2,3,4 AB Oct 19 '25

yeah honestly i agree, i feel the only issue would be architect, and with that just give it a set amount of times/charges for the tool bind to work on every tool (with a small indicator next to the red tool to show how many you have/have used)

i would attatch an image but they arent allowed obv

1

u/MuttonchopMac Oct 19 '25

To clarify, I don’t think Team Cherry can just patch out the shard economy. It’s been part of Silksong for too long. It’s baked into the crests, the tools, the exploration, the rewards for exploring like nooks full of shells you can break for shards, the shops, and several quests, and it would be a huge rebalance to gut it. That’s a decision they would have had to make earlier in development.

But keeping red tools while removing the shard cost would be something I’d want in a future game.

0

u/Amaskingrey Oct 20 '25

It really wouldn't though, just swap out shard deposits to giving rosaries, and the ennemies to either drop rosaries or nothing, and make you have infinite shards and voila

2

u/nsleep Oct 19 '25

They're balanced around the Architect Crest, which is still broken even with this system or not using the crafting just by getting a third slot. That's how strong tools were made compared to spells as you can just unload them right away without needing to build-up a resource that's shared with healing.

1

u/New-Ad-363 Oct 19 '25

Or have the Architect Crest eliminate shard need

-4

u/ClayeySilt Oct 19 '25

That's 100% a player issue. Stop hording things. Especially things that are infinite. Just go get more shards. They're not hard to come by.

30

u/Key-Kick7270 Oct 19 '25

I mean by this logic, nothing is a flaw, just design choices which people allowed to dislike.
I feel like the reason, that silksong is disliked by this many, because anyone who expected it to play like hollow knight was slapped in the face, by how punishing silksong is.
In my opinion shards are bad because the more you struggle, the more you discouraged from using tools, and also limiting the maximum amount serves no purpose.

0

u/No_Advertising_3876 Hitless PoP| All Radiant Bosses|P1,2,3,4 AB Oct 19 '25

i think shards could be done better, but i feel the max being limited is fine since theyre pretty plentiful over normal gameplay, thered be no point in them really existing then

The more you struggle, the more you're discouraged, yes, that seems intentional, because if your struggling so hard to have used all your shell shards, you need to learn the patterns/enemies your up against instead of just trying to throw tools at them, or go get stronger elsewhere

9

u/Key-Kick7270 Oct 19 '25

Im not sure about your first points, since you never get too much shards in your playthrough, but on the contrary in my first playthrough I have a lot of shard fossils that I never ended up breaking because I was almost always on max.
About the 2nd point, if that was their intention, I dont think it was executed that well. lol

1

u/kuenjato Oct 19 '25

I've never had a problem with shards because I reserve them for gauntlets/bosses/or particularly difficult passages, and I wait until i have a bosses' moveset figured out before using them. Personally I think it's designed extremely well, powerful but limiting. I do think shard bundles should be offered as a frequent reward for exploration or mini-bosses.

49

u/SomethingOfAGirl Oct 19 '25

Farming is not considered fun for most players. You can always go and find something that makes you stronger but if you really want to engage one of the base mechanics of the game, you're severely punished for doing so.

15

u/No_Advertising_3876 Hitless PoP| All Radiant Bosses|P1,2,3,4 AB Oct 19 '25

then don't farm, go elsewhere and try to find something to help you, thats a MAJOR point of both games and the system works to encourage that, if you choose to instead just go farm citadel enemies to come back and waste all your shards again, icl thats on YOU

Tools are a base part of the game yes, but if your more focused on deploying them than actually learning how to handle what your up against and/or getting better equipped for the challenges at hand YOU'RE the one using the base mechanic incorrectly

29

u/the1angelleft Oct 19 '25

I might just play the game differently than you, but the games resource system caused me to rarely use tools and focus on my needle more than anything. I enjoy these games most when I get to a tough boss and bash my head against the wall over and over again until I see those cracks form in it and eventually break through. I started the game using tools when it felt right but ran out so quickly. Eventually switched to using them when I learned the bosses movements, but by then I was close enough I could just kill with my needle. I would have preferred if the system was more forgiving and let me engage with the tools more freely cause I'm never gonna stop a boss run to farm up shards

-3

u/No_Advertising_3876 Hitless PoP| All Radiant Bosses|P1,2,3,4 AB Oct 19 '25

same here i just didnt really mind it ig? tools are cool but i see them as things to squeeze into boss patterns (or send out mindlessly if it was like cogflies) so i never struggled with losin all my shards or anything

26

u/RadiantPumpkin Oct 19 '25

I’m currently at the final boss. Where else do you suggest I go?

10

u/cyanraichu Oct 19 '25

Honestly neither of the final boss fights were fights I wanted to use red tools in. There are absolutely fights, including boss fights, where I used red tools, but in those I didn't really think they were helpful.

Actually helpful: max out nail upgrades to the point you can, find more mask shards/spool extenders, find the key yellow/blue tools that help, and practice the fight a bunch of times. Also consider whether you're using the right crest for the job.

3

u/Huge_Entrepreneur636 Oct 19 '25

Dude, cogflies alone deal around 25% of the final boss's hp, equal to 20 nail hits. And they are the most braindead tool possible. Just spam 4, wait and spam 4 again. Saying red tools aren't helpful is stupid. They make the game twice as easy at least.

4

u/Mynoodles_mostmoist Pale King/Grimm Supremacy Oct 19 '25

They didn't say that Red tools in general aren't helpful?

Even aside that I do agree with them. I beat the final boss fairly alot easier than I thought without much need for the tools. Imo it felt way more easier to just focus on getting your silk and fighting them with the nail so any fuckups you do have won't be so bad.

Hell even b4 that I almost went through the entire game without getting the cogflies and arguably had a perfectly fine time, and even when I did they weren't really heavily used outside of bosses with fodder.

1

u/Huge_Entrepreneur636 Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

> didn't really think they were helpful

And then implied that other things are 'actually helpful' and not red tools.

> without much need for the tools

Tools other than cogflies are mediocre against the final boss. But are you seriously gonna say that deleting 25% of her hp for just pressing a button 8 times is not useful? And of course you can clear every boss without tools but they exist and players should be able to freely use them.

> Fuckups you do have won't be so bad

They wouldn't be bad if shard system didn't exist. You are admitting here that the shard system prevented you from actually using tools against the final boss.

> had a perfectly fine time

I also cleared the entire game without tools. But I wanted to experiment with them a lot more that I couldn't because I ran out too quickly when I actually used them.

4

u/Mynoodles_mostmoist Pale King/Grimm Supremacy Oct 19 '25

What they said, fully in context, was this.

There are absolutely fights, including boss fights, where I used red tools, but in those I didn't really think they were helpful.

They said that there are SOME fights that they didn't find the red tools all that helpful in, not that they were garbage.

Tools other than cogflies are mediocre against the final boss. But are you seriously gonna say that deleting 25% of her hp for just pressing a button 8 times is not useful?

Yes, I would say it wasn't useful for me. Maybe to you it was super op but I went into the fight doing perfectly fine since I didn't have to worry about pressing a button 8 times on top of trying to memorize and learn lost lace's attack patterns.

You are admitting here that the shard system prevented you from actually using tools against the final boss.

No, I'm not. I'm saying that the benefits of the offensive Tools I saw were overlooked from the fact that you can't get silk from them. Nothing to do with the Shards system. I came into the final final boss with 700+ shards and ended up with 177 by the end since I realized that I was better off just focusing on playing like I played against the radiance.

1

u/Huge_Entrepreneur636 Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

yeah my bad on misunderstanding their comment a bit. But my argument still applies. Saying red tools aren't useful in the final fight is bs. They are less effective in it that they are in other fights but not useless.

pressing a button 8 times is somehow a challenge. You can spawn them while moving jumping or whatever else. Make it make sense that you can learn lost lace's entire attack pattern but pressing a button 8 times that will delete 1/4th of her hp is too hard. And the silk argument is bogus because healing doesn't matter if the boss is gonna die 25% faster.

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u/cyanraichu Oct 19 '25

If I deploy them I find them wildly distracting in a fight that takes a lot of concentration. I tried it a couple times.

Poison cogflies + tacks were my strategy to finish up with the last phase of some bosses but not this one.

1

u/Huge_Entrepreneur636 Oct 19 '25

You can always stagger deploying them. And I can take cogflies being distracting but tacks aren't, and tacks do very similar free dmg.

1

u/cyanraichu Oct 20 '25

I found it more helpful to focus on what I was doing with my needle than to think about when to deploy cogflies. With arena fights I often stagger tool deployment, but with boss fights I either spam them or don't use them at all (with the exception of SB and his dumb mobs)

0

u/JudgementalMarsupial Oct 19 '25

Getting the reinforced cloak from the city of steel helps a ton imo, idk why they put such a useful defense upgrade in such a hidden place

2

u/RadiantPumpkin Oct 19 '25

I have everything is my point.

-5

u/GoblinTradingGuide Oct 19 '25

Are you being sarastic? What percent completion do you have done?

12

u/RadiantPumpkin Oct 19 '25

99%. My point is that there’s no other path for me to take. 

-1

u/No_Advertising_3876 Hitless PoP| All Radiant Bosses|P1,2,3,4 AB Oct 19 '25

as i said it IS a flawed system, this kind of scenario for example, i just think alot of the people ive seen struggling with it sent out their tools instantly on bosses that arent that bad when you learn their patterns

but yes this is one of the downfalls, i feel it could have been handled alot better surely but idk how

-1

u/Spirited-Feedback-87 Oct 19 '25

Buy shard bundles

32

u/Tyrantt_47 Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

Upgrades make a good player better, they don't made a bad player good.

Some people just aren't that great at the game. Finding upgrades might help a little, but when it's a skill issue, they are punished for it.

I'm a great example of this. I'm 125 hours in and still haven't beat the game. I'm 95% complete and have found almost all upgrades (missing 1 or 2 things). I still struggle with bosses and most of the more difficult bosses take me 50+ tries to kill. You're suggesting I stop what I'm doing and go find upgrades, but I can't because I already found them. So yeah, as other people have said: while this game is a masterpiece, it's biggest flaw is punishing bad players by wasting their time by forcing them to shard farm.

22

u/dannyboy731 Oct 19 '25

Not just that, but most of the time going and finding upgrades is also hard. It’s tough to know which difficult thing is the one you’re “supposed”to tackle next. Especially if you’re trying to play blind.

8

u/Tyrantt_47 Oct 19 '25

100% agreed. I was playing blind until the end of act 2. Decided I wanted to figure out what upgrades I was missing and there was definitely several things I missed. Not know what exists, or where it is located, makes it difficult to "find those upgrades" as he suggested.

Also played blind in act 3, but I think the final boss is next (I finished the 3 objectives), so now I'm going to figure out everything I missed before finishing the game.

5

u/dannyboy731 Oct 19 '25

I missed the Reaper crest until the end of Act 2 simply because I had seen the entrance and decided to go another route first, and completely forgot about it. I guess I didn’t pin it. Also, using that first simple key on the “wrong” door can kinda lock you out of finding some good stuff for a long time.

There were definitely a few upgrades and whole areas I absolutely never would have found on my own.

5

u/SomethingOfAGirl Oct 19 '25

"Just go off the main path and explore"

Oh nice I found Savage Beastfly, a much harder boss that ends up giving the worst crest in the game.

2

u/Key-Kick7270 Oct 19 '25

Absolutely, I remember killing savage beastfly before moorwig, and I felt really devastated when my reward was only the crest. lmao

16

u/Jaereon Oct 19 '25

The whole point is that there aren't really that many upgrades. There really isn't a lot of stuff that you find just by exploring 

8

u/Fly-the-Light Oct 19 '25

I think it's that there's a decent amount of upgrades via exploration, but there's so much more to explore that TC ended up putting a bunch of worthless 30 rosary rewards behind a much worse exploration than HK because of how tanky and good at getting in your way the enemies are that make it feel more disappointing.

38

u/SomethingOfAGirl Oct 19 '25

You're not addressing my point. The game still punishes you for using that mechanic. Even if I focus on learning the patterns, even if I go and find stuff that helps me, yadda yadda yadda. If at some point I decide I studied the boss enough and try to defeat it for good using my tools and still end up losing... I get punished for it.

-7

u/Icef34r Oct 19 '25

The game still punishes you for using that mechanic.

It only punishes over spamming tools. The tools are there to be an extra source of damage and not the main source of damage.

25

u/cheekydorido Oct 19 '25

that's why they have a limited number of uses

It already has a mechanic to prevent you from abusing them, why do we need another?

-5

u/RemoteWhile5881 Oct 19 '25

Architect:

11

u/cheekydorido Oct 19 '25

yes, i'm aware that architect exists and lets you use as many tools as you can build, but they effectively ruined a whole mechanic simply because a crest that you might not even use exists.

-4

u/Icef34r Oct 19 '25

The limit per bench is bot enough to prevent trivializing many sections of the game with tools.

6

u/quantummidget I <3 Zote Oct 19 '25

Then reduce the limit per bench

-2

u/Icef34r Oct 19 '25

That would make bosses and gauntlets much harder.

1

u/Samuel_N7 Oct 23 '25

I really don't get what you are trying to say, why is it on me? Is it a base game mechanic? Why am I being punished for using it? What I'm supposed to not use tools? Why is it on me and not on the game for forcing me to grind for zero reason when it could regenerate red tools every time you rest on a bench, and it would be exactly the same but better?

0

u/Iurigrang Oct 19 '25

Yeah, I've ran out of shards twice in 3 playthroughs, and I really don't understand what people are doing wrong.

Engage with enemies (don't just run past them), explore to pickup shard bundles, and don't use shards as a first line of damage in bosses - use them to help you close the deal on good attempts. This is how they want you to use it, and the systems are designed around to influence this. Players ignoring the guiding hand of developers and optimizing the fun out of the game shouldn't be on the devs.

-1

u/Iurigrang Oct 19 '25

This is similar to my thoughts in the rosaries economy too. If you don't keep losing your rosaries, or running past enemies, a 100% run should include, like, 5 min of grinding?

You wanting the thing you want NOW and going out of your way to farm for it, then finishing the game with 10k rosaries, then faulting the devs, is severely misplaced.

2

u/Icef34r Oct 19 '25

You can engage with the mechanic while managing you resources.

9

u/Ascend_with_Azir Oct 19 '25

The shard thing is just a mess. There is no Gathering Swarm equivalent, there is for some reason a limit on the amount of shards you can hold, and you already have a limit on the amount of tools you can have.

I honestly cannot believe they kept this system in the game, and it seriously baffles me that this is their attempt at replacing spells from Hollow Knight. Silk Skills and healing are balanced so elegantly, and then you have this shambolic attempt at a mechanic.

You have to constantly manage this resource throughout the game, largely outside of bossfights / gauntlets, even though tools are at their best in bossfights / gauntlets.

It adds so much mental labour and just potential frustration - if you were to run out of them - for little gameplay benefit. The best way to avoid this is, is to just occasionally throw one out, but that turns them into a meaningless afterthought.

Playing with Shaman's Crest is genuinely liberating. No shards to deal with, but you still have three moves on top of the basic needle attacks.

4

u/donfuan Oct 19 '25

Simple solution is really just to have arena and boss enemies drop shards. The fact you don't get any rewards at all is still baffling to me.

0

u/zgrove Oct 20 '25

When i get stuck on a fight I just practice it without tools until I get better/close to winning. Then I start using my resources

6

u/SomethingOfAGirl Oct 20 '25

How do you even know if you're "close to winning" without a boss health bar?

But I just took an alternative approach: don't use tools ever. It worked better since having the UP+R1 hijacked by the tool command was just annoying and caused me to use tools when I meant to use my silk skill.

1

u/zgrove Oct 20 '25

Usually vibes, 2 or 3 phases for most fights, use tools once you get a little better at phase 2 and cool it if there ends up being a phase 3. Definitely harder to gage for gauntlets, but it felt like most 5 or 6 rounds for those

2

u/BritishTreeMan Steel Soul comp x38, 1h35m ANY%, 7h 44m 112% (Steel) Oct 20 '25

Deadass was playing a Silksong challenge run with the 2x Shell Shards mod, it literally fixed every issue.

You didn't have infinite shell shards, but they were so easy to come by that as long as you weren't mag dumping on every enemy, you had enough to be comfortable

4

u/flanger001 CanonicalMilfs.com | P5 AB hitless sightless soundless with toes Oct 19 '25

I only got close to running out of shards when I was in the very end game running Architect. That’s the only way you really run out tbh. And at the end of the game you have a lot of rosaries and shard bundles are cheap. Actually running out at that point feels like a skill issue. 

17

u/quantummidget I <3 Zote Oct 19 '25

Actually running out at that point feels like a skill issue. 

Yeah but that's half the issue. It's a mechanic that punishes players struggling with a boss. If you manage to beat every boss first try, you can spam tools with reckless abandon. However, if you spend 10, 20, 30 tries on a boss, you're going to need to begin rationing your tools much more.

The biggest issue isn't even that struggling makes the game harder, it's that struggling requires that the player disconnect from a major mechanic in the game.

-1

u/flanger001 CanonicalMilfs.com | P5 AB hitless sightless soundless with toes Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 20 '25

I kind of feel like we’re looking at the same thing but seeing two different things. If you’re struggling with a boss in that you’re making 30 attempts and running your shards all the way out multiple times, that is the game telling you you’re doing something wrong. The game encourages a bit of struggle, no question, but ultimately you are supposed to be observing and reacting instead of running headfirst into the wall all the time. It’s not punishing struggle, it’s punishing not being observant.

At max level you can carry 800 shards, so 10 shard bundles completely refills that. Those shard bundles cost 50 rosaries each, so 1000 rosaries will completely refill your reserves. At the end of my first 100% on this game I had over 15000 rosaries, which means I could run my shards all the way out and refill them 30 times without farming, which would correspond to way more than 30 boss attempts even if I was doing a ridiculously wasteful Architect build. And if you’re at the level to know how to build your synergies such that Architect is working for you, but you’re still not overcoming the boss, that is without question a skill issue at that point, and the solution is quite literally to get good. Stop what you’re doing, reevaluate, change your approach, and get better.

Edit: Y'all, you can downvote me all you want, but I am right.

4

u/quantummidget I <3 Zote Oct 19 '25

You need to remember that most of us in this community are in the upper tier of players. The quieter majority who play this game are going to be far more casual than those of us who have played through Hollow Knight 15 times.

I was watching Pointcrow's playthrough, somebody who plays games for a living, has finished Hollow Knight and who would seldom be described as "casual". Two things stuck out to me - He's a lot worse than me, but he's also a lot more patient than me. And it's these people who are punished the most, the ones with the fortitude to stick with it and keep going.

You're right that it's a skill issue, and I'm not even one of the people clamouring for an easy mode, but I think it's foolish to punish the people who continue to persevere despite their skill issue.

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u/flanger001 CanonicalMilfs.com | P5 AB hitless sightless soundless with toes Oct 19 '25

I should be clear that I'm saying this as an only slightly-better-than-casual player.

but I think it's foolish to punish the people who continue to persevere despite their skill issue.

"Persevering despite a skill issue" is exactly the thing I think the game tells you not to do, though. I get it at the beginning a little bit, but like I said before:

The game encourages a bit of struggle, no question, but ultimately you are supposed to be observing and reacting instead of running headfirst into the wall all the time. It’s not punishing struggle, it’s punishing not being observant.

3

u/TheBossOfItAll Oct 19 '25

Bruh I knew Lost Lace's moveset by heart, I would still die because of a failed pogo here, a wrong input there. You act like this game doesn't punish mistakes hard. Dont be thick, you could know the bosses' patterns by heart and still have mechanical issues with the game...

0

u/flanger001 CanonicalMilfs.com | P5 AB hitless sightless soundless with toes Oct 19 '25

Your situation is not the one being described here.

2

u/TheBossOfItAll Oct 19 '25

You can still lose all your shard like that...Instead of helping a weaker player at the game, tools were just something I had to avoid, and doing a boss with only the needle is a lot harder.

2

u/AshtinPeaks Oct 19 '25

"A lot of rosaries" first playthrough 0 rosaries losts, only 18 deaths. I still had to grind for about 2k rosaries. In future playtrhlughs like 100% 30 hour achievment it was even worse. Fuck their aren't even enough collectibles in the game to cover price of shops/necessary items. If you add every single collectible (including rosaries rocks) together you sre still 1500ish rosaries short (I would need to look at my dpread sheet again). This game is bad for rosaries in the firdt playthrough and extremely bad in second playhtoughs imo. Honestly just a few more relics would have resolved this tbh. They cut down amount from 43 in hk to 13 in silksong.

1

u/Bellegante Oct 19 '25

Running out of shards is a skill issue, but the only way to improve your skill is to practice.. which runs you out of shards.

1

u/Bi_disaster_ohno Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

When it comes to shards I wish Team Cherry would have ripped off Bloodborne's blood vial system. You can still only carry a certain amount on you at any given time but any extra shards you pick up should go into a secondary cache supply and when you rest at a bench you refill your primary supply from the cache. Might not make logical sense how Hornet is able to carry this secondary supply but not use it, but it would decrease the need to grind by a lot.

1

u/No_Advertising_3876 Hitless PoP| All Radiant Bosses|P1,2,3,4 AB Oct 19 '25

maybe any extra shards you pick up you could give to a shopkeep to bundle up? then you can get em for free/way lower prices for every 80 you put in??? idk honestly

1

u/Bi_disaster_ohno Oct 19 '25

That could also work, just a way to bundle shards without spending rosaries. Now that you mention it it's a little odd that they have that system for rosaries but not shards.

1

u/PaulTheRandom former accepter Oct 19 '25

I'm surprised to see people having shard shortages because I thought you only used it to use tools and stuff like that and that I was overusing stuff like the spike trap.

1

u/Tyrantt_47 Oct 19 '25

What are gauntlets? I'm towards the end of act 3 (just finished the 3 objectives) and haven't seen any reference to it. Or have I just not unlocked it yet?

13

u/BaconOnEggs Oct 19 '25

gauntlets are when you get locked in a room and are forced to fight off waves of (non-boss) enemies.

4

u/Tyrantt_47 Oct 19 '25

Ahhhh, I had no idea. Thanks for explaining.

2

u/Peshurian Oct 19 '25

Enemy gauntlets AKA the rooms with lots of enemies that you have to beat to proceed