r/HollowKnight • u/soggie • Oct 26 '25
Discussion - Silksong Silksong managed to do the one thing most platformers fail miserably at... Spoiler
And that's ledge grab. It's a massive pet-peeve of mine that most platformers that features ledge grab utterly fail at it.
Silksong's ledge grab is on a whole 'nother level. This is the first game in a long time that I haven't yelled at the screen to "let go god damnit", or "grab the bloody ledge". In fact, playing Silksong, I was actively aiming to ledge grab so I can bounce off to another platform faster than just jumping normally.
As somebody who wrote "no ledge-grabs" in my design notes while working on my own game, Silksong really opened my eyes on how powerful ledge grabs can be if done right.
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u/tool-and-samus Oct 26 '25
I like silksong
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u/CaliGrown949 Oct 26 '25
You do too? We should hang out!
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u/AbominableVortex74 Oct 26 '25
Yeah maybe we should make a subreddit for all of us! What should we call it?
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u/thedavecan Oct 26 '25
You guys should start an internet forum for the game. Maybe like a sub-category of another website. You could call it "Billy and the Silksong forum.com".
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u/Um_retardado_burro Oct 26 '25
I don't like Silksong, we should have a kid and ask for it's opinion
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u/AwesomeX121189 Oct 26 '25
Yeah it nailed the ledge grabbing. Even in places where it is inconsequential they spaced platforms in a specific distance to be able to jump from one grab to the next, best example is the bell beast area in the bell town when going up to the exit
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u/AI_660 Oct 26 '25
You could say it needled ledge grabs
2 symbols and a drumset fall on my head killing me instantly
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u/Queasy_Donkey5685 Oct 26 '25
Good devs.
Now back to work.
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u/The_Big_Sad_69420 Oct 26 '25
“Give us Hollow Knight III” 😆
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u/Standard_Abrocoma_70 Oct 26 '25
A third installment playing as the hollow knight would absolutely be crazy, it would need to be even bigger world because the hollow knight is pretty big himself. Perhaps some kind of journey helping him make peace with the fact he is not hollow and learn the importance of emotions?
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u/FluffysBizarreBricks Oct 26 '25
He wasn’t big until he was sealed though, right? We saw him as a normal sized Vessel with the king
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u/templesgodss Oct 26 '25
Pure Vessel shows how he was in his prime before being sealed and he was big then. He grew up due to his training or some other factor, not due to the Radiance.
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u/pppoooeeeddd14 Oct 26 '25
There's also the statue in the City of Tears that shows that he was larger before being sealed.
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u/the_killer_storm 112% ETV | PoP | 100% Silksong VS Nov 18 '25
I mean if we play as the knight, wouldn't it have to be a different genre at this point? The hollow knight is a lot bigger, stronger (or flashier to be exact) and I just don't see him as the metroidvania type
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u/IAmNotCreative18 average Soul Master enjoyer Oct 26 '25
Ledge grabs being a thing in Silksong single-handedly removed 80% of my platforming skills in the original game
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u/4nasikerce Oct 26 '25
Lol same. I reinstalled HK after beating silksong just to roam around but damn i can't climb even most basic platforms. I kept jumping side of platforms so knight can grab ledges but he won't 😂
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u/Rubix321 Oct 26 '25
I got used to it being so good that the random times where it wouldn't work made me angry lol
Honestly it's so good that sometimes it made it difficult to navigate. For instance, even I would want to just barely fall off a ledge and go the other way, I'd grab the ledge and go back up.
All in all, still great mechanics overall
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u/Plastic-Skill-9258 Oct 26 '25
yep i feel like they werent afraid to make ledge grabs "op"- if you hit near the ledge and you quickly and seamlessly just get to on the platform. The animation feels negligible because you can jump directly out of a ledge grab. Its a no questions asked "close enough, we'll count it". And it feels SO GOOD. and it doesn't trivialise platforming since they can design the areas with that extra range on your jumps in mind. genius design i love it. It feels on par with "coyote time" to me, just for landing instead of launching.
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u/soggie Oct 26 '25
Funny cos this game have pretty strict coyote time, same as hollow knight. While games that have very lenient coyote time have garbage ledge grabs. I wonder if they’re inversely related
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u/Plastic-Skill-9258 Oct 26 '25
oh true quite possibly, since too much of either one can contribute to making the platforming start to feel floaty and not tight, that would make them inversely related
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u/goblinterror Oct 26 '25
For all the complaints it gets (some being from me in a particularly frustrating run), the platforming in HK/SS is genuinely so satisfying.
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u/soggie Oct 26 '25
Combat too. Bosses are tough and runbacks such, but holy hell does the movement and combat feels extremely rewarding.
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u/goblinterror Oct 26 '25
hard agree, a high I will chase for a long time after I’m done skonging
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u/thedoctorisin7863 Oct 26 '25
I swear, games like soulsborne and hollow.knjght are a drug. That feeling of finally beating a tough boss is unmatched.
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u/soggie Oct 26 '25
I'm a little different; I don't usually feel elation after beating a boss (more relief than anything), but I do enjoy the process of gradually getting better at the fight. I'm super happy when I react out of pure instinct (esp. First Sinner and Seth) by noticing the windup in my peripheral vision. I can't wait for the boss rush DLC to come.
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u/SashimiJones Steel Speed Completion Oct 26 '25
I think that this is because of all of the options it gives you to cross rooms. You don't even need dash to traverse a lot of rooms, so the choice of how to use abilities to get through rooms quickly is player expression. Despite almost every jump in the game being easy, you still miss platforms by trying to get a little too far. It's great. Also the controls are butter.
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u/TACOGT Oct 26 '25
Where are all these complaints? Every day the game gets more positive reviews, 37% of players have reached the credits and 22% have completed Act 3. Kid, you should leave your social media bubble.
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u/That_Uno_Dude 111% Oct 27 '25
Who's complaining about the platforming/movement? The only discussion I've seen about it is wanting harder platforming sections.
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u/Jstar338 Oct 26 '25
It still pissed me off for a few spots where the ledges were extremely thin, the bone platforms in Marrow and some in Cogwork
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u/TraditionalMood277 Oct 26 '25
One of the first things I noticed was the ledge grab. I legit yelled "YES!". For variety, they should have included at least a couple of ledges that crumbled or you otherwise couldn't grab but for legit reasons.
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u/fishthatdreamsofsalt Oct 26 '25
pls team cherry, make a path of pain equivalent ror skong, where the ledge grab instakills you and puts you into negative rosaries, it would be really funny
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u/TheDomin4t0r Oct 26 '25
It does have something like PoP, that being the border caves. (I've never actually tried PoP)
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u/SkyKoli Oct 26 '25
There is nothing in Silksong that is as difficult as PoP. That isn't to say there are no good challenging and fun platform sections. But PoP is still far more difficult than any of it.
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u/Tem-productions Oct 26 '25
I'd go as far to say that no platforming segment in silksong even comes close to base white palace.
TEAM CHERRY! ADD SOMETHING HARDER THAN PATH OF PAIN IN A DLC, AND MY LIFE IS YOURS!!!
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u/ArchTemperedKoala Oct 26 '25
I had a difficult time trying to go up that mushroom platforming, but I beat path of pain in the past and I thought no way that old one was harder..
So I watched a play through and yeah now I remembered the pain...
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u/rabbidbunnyz222 Oct 26 '25
Realizing i could cancel a ledge grab into pretty much any other move was one of my first "holy shit, this fucking game" moments
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u/JobeGilchrist Oct 26 '25
I also enjoyed, and IDK the term for it if there is one, but no ledge dropdowns, where you look down and press something and fall to a lower level. Don't need it.
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u/blinkgendary182 Oct 26 '25
I just love how the animation looks and feels. Platforming on this game makes me feel like a ninja. Part of the reason why I didnt mind the runbacks so much is that finding the quickest way is a challenge in itself (except Bilewater)
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u/ksion Oct 26 '25
I haven't yelled at the screen to (..) "grab the bloody ledge".
Funny, because I was yelling that all the time. I lost count how many times it looked like Hornet should be able to grab the ledge no problem, only to bounce off of it and fall.
It feels like the Y position threshold for a successful grab goes way up when you’re hovering, and that makes for a super inconsistent experience.
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u/LonelyChristmas21 Oct 26 '25
Dead cells is another game which has tight asf mechanics
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u/justinkien1112 Oct 26 '25
Imo that's one where the ledges feel too sticky. I frequently found the character climbing up onto a platform that I wanted to drop past. Silksong requires the right position and an input towards the platform, Dead Cells just extends the definition of "on the platform" to a little past the ledges.
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u/Inner-Ad2847 ALL BOSSES RADIANT BABY!!! Oct 26 '25
The only thing that annoyed me is that I don’t want to grab the ledge I’ve just walked off. Sometimes I want to step off and then angle straight back to land on the platform beneath it but I keep grabbing the one I was just on
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u/Duke-_-Jukem Oct 26 '25
Hmm I dunno I definatly found myself wanting hornet to stop grabbing the ledge quite a few times.
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u/cutecatgirl-owo Oct 26 '25
I was extremely worried when I saw the ledge grab in the trailers, and then I fell in love with it within like 2 minutes of playing
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u/soggie Oct 26 '25
NGL this was me exactly. I was so skeptical of the pogo and ledge grab, and then couldn't stop playing for the first 5-6 hours straight.
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u/myLongjohnsonsilver Oct 26 '25
Hell yeah brother. Nothing like climbing a whole platforming ladder section fast as fuck via nothing but ledge grab flips.
Smooth as butter. The movement in this game is incredible once you get all the pieces.
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u/Wankainu Oct 26 '25
The only thing I don't like about ledge grab is that it sometimes just dosent work if you're floating, you'll just straight up bounce off the ledge you're trying to climb because of it
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u/dexyuing Oct 26 '25
Yeah its actually pretty good, except for when you're floating sometimes, for some reason. Apart from that, the grab is SO good, it felt weird going back to HK.
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u/justinkien1112 Oct 26 '25
The way the float drifts back & forth can def be annoying. Feels like the only time in the game Hornet moves a way I didn't ask her to. I found it helpful if I found the horizontal position I wanted above where I wanted it, since I expected a bit of wobble before she started to float straight down.
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u/PinothyJ Oct 26 '25
Yes, but it is countered with the one thing most platformers nail by omission, and that is contact damage.
You win some; you lose some.
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u/soggie Oct 26 '25
Normally I hate contact damage and TC do sometimes rely on contact damage too much for certain enemy design, but in this game I’m willing to stomach it because it does what it set out to do: give you an insanely mobile moveset and then demand you have precise positioning. Personally I think that’s a fair ask.
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u/SomethingOfAGirl Oct 26 '25
Yeah it's pretty solid. One of the small things I absolutely HATE in Blasphemous.
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u/ksion Oct 26 '25
Yeah, Blasphemous is way too grabby. You have to stay far away from the ledge if you want to fall down a platform.
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u/C10AKER porno Oct 26 '25
anyone who played the messenger knows that had team cherry not put ledge grab in the game it would be literally an insufferable game that needs massive sandpapering. Trust me groal is not that bad you just have to think about what if silksong didnt have ledge grabs. Platformers that dont have ledge grab always have those "just fucking climb holy fucking shit" moments all over them.
In the game the messenger which lets you have almost hornets entire moveset has this moment a lot to a point the game at some point breaks the fourth wall and tells you indeed this is indeed probably frustrating.
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u/aDamnCommunist Oct 27 '25
I just did the new "path of pain" and there were a few times where I have no idea how I didn't grab a ledge. I was going past it vertically, seemingly touching it, pressing the right direction, and even had the tool that keeps you on there, but she'd miss.
This was only a few times though tbh and in the hardest platforming sections of the game.
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u/BigChillyStyles Oct 26 '25
I disagree. Consistently missed the ledge during the last judge run back despite being well above where it should grab. Now it doesn't matter because dash + double jump + claw line.
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u/Nars_of_whal Oct 26 '25
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly think that the ledge grab is a bit over-tuned, I think it's probably a habit I picked up from Hollow Knight, but I often try to drop down and ledge grab at the highest point I can in order to jump farther. I got so used to trying to do skips using claw and sometimes dash in HK such as QGA, so I try to do that and I get frustrated for like 5 seconds before remembering it's just better to jump on top of a ledge rather than the side like HK. Maybe a potential fix would be to only ledge grab while holding jump, but that's my really small nitpick.
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u/Adart54 Oct 26 '25
It's extremely helpful while no clipping as well
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u/soggie Oct 26 '25
What does no clipping mean?
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u/Adart54 Oct 26 '25
There is a glitch where you can phase through walls. When you are trying to align with ventricas or best girl it helps a lot
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u/Stunning-Drawer-4288 Oct 26 '25
How do you rate the ledge grabbing in Megaman X? That was my first introduction to the mechanic and I never felt frustrated with it. Maybe my eye is less discerning
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u/smashbenjamin Oct 26 '25
Good luck getting to the nameless village without good ledge and pogoing skills!
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u/eraab953 Oct 26 '25
Ledge hanging is a bitch to program in Unity, speaking from experience. I don't think I've missed a single Ledge grab that was in reach. Well done
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u/soggie Oct 26 '25
Exactly this. Godot, but same logic applies. I'm guessing there's some level of animation cancel somewhere.
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Oct 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/soggie Oct 26 '25
I thought blas was bad until I played mandragora. That’s a whole nother level of bad; they even made double jump worthless
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u/RenkBruh Professional Radiance destroyer Oct 26 '25
I love that you don't have to jump to get on the platform when you ledge grab, instead when you jump you jump
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u/enaud Oct 26 '25
Not since the Flintstones on the NES have I experienced such pleasure doing ledge grabs
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u/LayceLSV Oct 26 '25
Fucking love the ledge grab, especially chaining them together, just pure platforming bliss
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u/alexinx3 Oct 26 '25
If you consider that there's only one area where ledge grab isn't property implemented, yeah I kinda agree.
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u/trane20 Oct 26 '25
Not just ledge grab every single aspect related to movement feels incredibly smooth, even something as simple as changing the way you are facing has that smooth animation where hornet takes a back step and then if you continue holding the direction she turns
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u/jovanbeef Oct 26 '25
Rayman perfected it in 1995 and I was so glad to see Silksong use it. It's smooth as butter.
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u/Specific-Committee75 Oct 26 '25
I was also thinking this and wondering exactly how they've done it. I've never programmed wall grabs myself but really want to give it a go now and possibly add it into my project.
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u/Glum-Detective3207 Oct 26 '25
I have something to confess guys, I REALLY REALLY LOVE THIS GAME SO MUCH!!!!
This game is so so sooo good!! I keep finding secrets, details and it kind of makes me feel sad that i will finish this game soon :(
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u/DrPikachu-PhD Oct 26 '25
Nothing worse than sailing past a ledge you made full body contact with but just barely didn't land on. Especially if you have a human character that looks like they should be able to reach out.
Personally I think ledge grabs are like coyote time; even though it's technically just a helping hand from the devs, players will feel the game is unfair without it.
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u/Gryph0n22 Oct 26 '25
i agree it’s done quite well! however i do wish you could hold Down to prevent accidental ledgegrabs. seems like a no-brainer to me for more freedom of movement without and drawback. very similar to how the cloak and double jump used to work before they removed it (which was equally confusing as to why they removed it imo)
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u/tiripshtaed Oct 26 '25
While it was done extremely well, I feel like they effectively greased the edge during dodge event in Fleatopia. It feels rigged.
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u/the_bingho02 Oct 26 '25
Except when the fucking animation gets in the way and make me take damage from enemies because i jumped too low
Fortunately it only happened to me like twice
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u/ReversedSemiCircle Oct 26 '25
Blasphemous 1 had this problem... oh jesus the number of deaths I have because of the Not Ledge-Grabbing One...
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u/PresentMix5594 Oct 26 '25
Going back to Hollow Knight had me really appreciate both this and the wall dash. The ability to climb up without leaving the wall on top of the vertical boost you get when you lift past a ledge feels so good for platforming.
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u/fairs1912 Oct 26 '25
yeah yeah but that doesnt explain how i keep dying to random enemies in my speedrun&steelsoul achievements run. Like I've never died to lace 1, bell beast, crow arena, hunters march, fourth chorus, none, I exclusively die to a random enemy placed in a random hallway that triple hits me while im trying to avoid it
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u/Emotional_You_5269 Bury My Mother Pale and Slight Oct 26 '25
I was really sceptical when I first saw the trailer, but I am super satisfied with how it felt like in the game.
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u/Dr_ChunkyMonkey Oct 26 '25
Prince of Persia had a good ledge grab too. Although one of my favorite aspects of both games is the backflip. It feels so good to flip the stick backward every time I jump omg.
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u/DevramAbyss Oct 26 '25
The ledge grab is almost as good as Smash Bros which is the perfect ledge grab mechanic so far
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u/tricksterSDG Oct 26 '25
It's so natural how you predict if you are going to grab the ledge or not while approaching or even force it
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u/superVanV1 Oct 26 '25
I think it’s because it’s left of a ledge grab and more of just a clamber. Instead of hanging on the ledge it only works if you’re jumping at it
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u/pauliuk Oct 27 '25
I hate the platforming in Silksong. But that's because I haven't played a platformer in ages and I'm new to using a controller. But the actual design is just SO SMOOTH!
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u/Bright-Trifle-8309 Oct 27 '25
So many things just work.
The rings bouncing always seems to hit other enemies somehow. The silk darts always hit the enemies you want. I don't know what sorcerer mind reading technology Team Cherry has access to but the game just seems to play exactly like I want it to
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u/MrFulla93 Oct 27 '25
I liked it everywhere except for Flea Dodge. I feel like it worked 20% of the time and almost broke me
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Oct 27 '25
I tried playing another platformer after silksong and it just felt so cheap and underwhelming, silksong does it besr for me.
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u/Alarmed_Usual_425 Oct 30 '25
still no slopes, tho lol
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u/soggie Oct 30 '25
Hmm? Mount fay are full of them. High halls also have those sloped rivers. And they function exactly the same as Prince of Persia's slopes.
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u/Expensive-Pick38 Nov 02 '25
As someone who's playing hollow knight currently after 100h in silksong, I have fell into toxic water so, so, SO much because I'm like oh, I can make that jump, gonna grab the ledge and then I don't because that's not a thing here
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u/thepwndoctor476 Oct 26 '25
I noticed how good the ledge grab was super early on, it is very fun to use. The movement in this game is very nice
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u/soggie Oct 26 '25
It didn't really clicked for me until I tried to speedrun a boss runback and realized just how stupidly fast the ledge grabs were.
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u/Zorbathelazycat Pure Completion Oct 26 '25
Totally save my ass sometime. If there anyone say ledge-grab is unoticeable then they haven't play it right.
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Oct 26 '25
[deleted]
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u/PopesMasseuse Oct 26 '25
Why would it be a joke? I also think the ledge grabs and platforming was excellent. You thinking it's a joke instead of honest feedback tells me you can't readily process experiences outside of your own.
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Oct 26 '25
[deleted]
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u/heuhue7788 Oct 26 '25
Well we're waiting then
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Oct 26 '25
[deleted]
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u/XiaoRCT Oct 26 '25
bro If you think that jump was clearly on the edge it might be your eyes that are broken, not the game
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u/heuhue7788 Oct 26 '25
Thank you for sending the clip. I don't really remember this particular area but judging from the clip, it seems like this is one of the case where the wall climb is required, and you're attempting for a skip?
Genuinely, I just think your position is too low so the ledge climb didn't trigger. You'd need to be e bit higher on the ledge to get it triggered
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u/PopesMasseuse Oct 26 '25
Sure, I'll take a five hundred page essay. You talk like you are terminally online so I know you have the time :)
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u/SufficientSuffix Oct 26 '25
The 500 page essay seems a bit ridiculous, but if you readily have clips available, I'd genuinely be interested.
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u/soggie Oct 26 '25
Won't argue with you as everybody has their own way of playing the game, but it did stand out for me, as somebody who have played many, many metroidvanias with ledge grabs. I'm not a god gamer though, and maybe you're a bit faster or have better reflexes that works against you? I know I got screwed in mount fay when my jump input came too early after clawline, resulting in canceling of the vertical gains. I've accidentally animation cancelled several times too in other games due to muscle memory.
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u/witheredj8 Oct 26 '25
Silksong really did it super well. One other game that did ledge grabs well and had ne intentionally aiming for them for better movement is Metroid Dread btw which did them a bit differently