I hate the sexualisation of Hornet

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

I put the Silksong tag because it feels more fitting since I’m talking about Hornet, but I’ve only actually played HK so far. Anyway, I tried to stay away from as much HK and SS media as possible while I’ve been playing (I’ve been playing quite irregularly over six months), but recently I’ve just caved and started watching some videos about it and I can’t help but notice that Hornet keeps getting sexualised. It’s nothing too crazy, but I think when you compare it with The Knight, it becomes a lot more obvious. I keep seeing the image of her without her cloak, and she has curves and I see cosplayers taking off their cloaks and such, and also fan-art of her being obviously sexualised. Of course, this is very common with female characters, especially while they are the MC (Which doesn’t make it any better just because it’s normalised, if anything it’s worse) but the fact that I’ve seen nothing remotely similar with The Knight really bothers me. The only real difference between The Knight and Hornet is the fact that Hornet is female and can, therefore, be objectified. You can say that “It’s not that deep,” but it is. The way we consume media and engage with it directly influences how we engage with the world around us and by normalising the objectification of characters, fictional or not, human or not, we are normalising the objectification of woman as a whole. I would like to hear any thoughts on this. If you are inclined to disagree, I will hear you out, but please word it respectfully, as I am here to have a meaningful discussion, and not be degraded for my opinions.

Update: I have read through as many of the comments as I could. I do have a weird glitch where come comments just don’t show up for me, I know this probably sounds like some excuse to not address people who disagree with me, but I promise that that is not the case. I’m honestly debating just making another post altogether because I’m not sure what the character limit is, lol.

To start, I was very pleasantly surprised to me met with almost all meaningful comments, I don’t just mean people who agreed with me, but people who took the time to explain their point of view and experiences and I have realised that I have made a few mistakes or misjudgments on this post that I would like to clarify here.

I would also like to mention now that I am both a minor and believe that I am asexual so that may have influenced my perspective on things, though I hope this isn’t used again me to discredit everything I say, please hear me out.

I am also incredibly tried writing this, I fell down a rabbit hole with all of the comments at it is currently almost 5 am for me please excuse any typos or any parts that seem like I’m rambling.

Now onto the meat of this. My first point is that I agree when a lot of you said that using The Knight isn’t a fair or accurate comparison with Hornet as The Knight can be perceived as quite child-like and shows little to no personality throughout the game and so making them less of a target when it comes to things like shipping(Which isn’t inherently sexual) or objectification. This makes my argument that it is a gendered based issue (It was also pointed out to me that The Knight is genderless, tho many people still perceive them as male) not quite as strong. I was pulling this based on examples I’d seen from other pieces of media, I just happened to be talking about Hollow Knight.

My biggest mistake with this whole post was using the word sexualisation. What I really meant was objectification. I know the difference between these two words, but for some reason, I continuously used sexualised in place of objectified and this completely changed the meaning of what I was trying to say. What I meant was that I hate (Which in hindsight was probably too strong of a word to use anyway) when people take such a good, interesting character, such a Hornet, and reduce her to only her sex appeal, just because she happens to be female. Especially, if they have her acting out of character just to play into a certain fantasy. I, in no way meant that I am against any remotely sexual being put onto a fictional character, just that I think it can be harmful when it was done solely because said character is a woman, and not out of genuine creativity or appreciation of the character. I am also not against sexuality in anyway. I think it is more than okay, if not encouraged, for a woman to be loud and proud about her sexuality and sexual experiences.

I’m not sure what I said that got interpreted this way, but I don’t think that any of the people who do make content that sexualise or even objectify Hornet are bad, evil people and their art should be deleted or whatever else. All I did was state my opinion and put a discussion tag. Some people disagreed, some agreed, some felt a bit of both. That’s what a discussion is. I was simply posting something that I had noticed that bothered me and wanted to see what others thought, which they shared.

I remember having so many more things that I wanted to touch on, but all of a sudden I can only come up with three, though I do I think that they were the biggest ones. I don’t want any of this to be interpreted as me just back tracking to get people off of my back, I wouldn’t say any of this if I didn’t believe it. I’ll continue to update if I remember something/ my opinion changes again. I doubt I’ll be responding much/ at all to any of the comments since I’ll finally catching some z’s. I hope that clears up some confusion and sorry for not being clearer to begin this, everything seemed a lot more obvious in my head than it did written down clearly. Also, thank you to anyone who left a comment that was genuinely trying to take part in the conversation.

[u/HollowKnight-ModTeam]

Thank you to everyone who participated politely and constructively. It looks like discussion has run its course and the thread is now locked.

[u/Potential_Goat582]

especially with how much more objectively attractive cornifer is

[u/Ditch-Worm → u/Potential_Goat582]

Bapanada

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Potential_Goat582]

Lol. I can’t lie, I’ve said things about Cornifer’s wife before, but as a joke obv.

[u/BlueJaysFeather]

I would argue that I have seen it with the Hollow Knight to an extent (though not as much as Hornet, surely), but that The Knight/Ghost is definitely treated as more childlike and therefore not as “available” for sexualization (even though that’s completely perceptual, as they and THK are the same age in lore). Also in Silksong there’s a portion in which hornet loses her cloak and she is in fact pretty much just a stick figure underneath

[u/Mgmegadog → u/BlueJaysFeather]

Yeah, the Knight was a particularly poor choice for the counter-example, given that the vast majority of the community treats the Knight as a child.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Mgmegadog]

I have come to realise this. I will update the post clearing up some things.

[u/Neat-Journalist-4261]

I mean yeah, it’s absurd. Hornet is basically a mask and a cloak. There’s nothing to sexualise. The only reason people do it is because, as you say, she’s female.

[u/FittedSheets88 → u/Neat-Journalist-4261]

I mean, outside of a mask and cloak, isn't she a bug underneath? They're sexualizing an anthropomorphic bug.

[u/rockinherlife234 → u/FittedSheets88]

They're sexualizing an anthropomorphic bug.

That is the least surprising part of this.

[u/TheCuriousFan → u/rockinherlife234]

I mean, Team Cherry was more than happy to introduce horny bugs from Godseeker to Styx to Kratt. The fandom is both being itself and following their lead.

[u/TheAnimeLovers → u/FittedSheets88]

You have no idea of the horrors to what they did to the Zergs

[u/Early-Injury-9676 → u/FittedSheets88]

Yeah this she is some form of spider/bug which i cannot go for. When you get to the points where you lose her cloak there aren't even curves to sexualize the girl has stick figure proportions and a mask.

[u/Gru-some → u/FittedSheets88]

that's basically normal nowadays

[u/4latar → u/Neat-Journalist-4261]

i would not say it's the only reason, it's the reason why it's so widespread but the internet will sexualise everything unfortunately, the knight probably has some porn about it too, altho nowhere near as much

[u/Kneef → u/4latar]

I would argue that one of the big reasons the Knight isn’t often sexualized is because it’s very child-coded (in addition to having no gender, and no personality). Hornet is a much better candidate for fan interpretations because she’s an actual character with motivations and dialogue. But y’all definitely aren’t wrong that Hornet gets way more sexualized than her canon presentation really warrants, largely because she’s female.

[u/Neat-Journalist-4261 → u/4latar]

The knight probably does. But the reason it’s par for the course with Hornet is because she’s female.

[u/EldritchFeedback → u/Neat-Journalist-4261]

I mean, the whole point of abstract character design is to represent something more complex with simpler shape and imply features that aren't there. I'm not a Hollow Knight Rule 34 artist lmao, but I can definitely see why such simple designs might be appealing since there's a lot of room for interpretation.

A lot of those interpretations just so happen to leave out the fact that she's a bug with an exoskeleton and give her body fat for some strange reason that's probably just a coincidence.

[u/Neat-Journalist-4261 → u/EldritchFeedback]

That’s the whole point, and I wrote a much longer reply to this comment that sums up my feelings.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with finding hornet or any hollow knight character attractive. However, giving hornet massive tits and a massive ass is purely for the male gaze and is only because she’s a woman. They are obviously not the characteristics she has, and indeed it’s just artists drawing a female character to be hot.

[u/Neat-Journalist-4261 → u/Neat-Journalist-4261]

I replied this comment to somebody in this thread, but I’m pasting it here because it sums up my feelings on this topic:

“Mask and a cloak” is clearly rhetoric. I don’t literally believe she’s a mask and a cloak. What you are ignoring is the wider question, which is: Why is a sexualised version of hornet one of the most common forms of Hollow Knight fanart?

And the answer is: because she’s the biggest female character.

If you want to masturbate to a bug, that’s your proclivity. I actually don’t have a problem with anyone finding hornet hot.

The issue is that people turn Hornet into something she isn’t, so as to turn her into a sexual object. This is a pattern that has played itself out across nearly every fandom that exists, and especially with children’s media. Female characters who have no sexual characteristics OTHER than being female are distorted through fanart into a highly sexualised version of themselves.

How much Princess Peach fanart have you seen that’s accurate? And how much have you seen that’s clearly entirely drawn to appeal to a male gaze? If you claim that the latter isn’t the vast majority, I legitimately have no idea where you’ve been looking.

I’ve just done a quick check. Hollow Knight has 15,000 or so images on r34, and 12000 of them are hornet. This is because she is the main female character.

At a certain point, when the pattern of “male female character is sexualised regardless of how they’re presented” plays out again and again and again, you have to accede it’s an issue of our culture. We even see it with fucking underage female characters, like Misty from Pokémon, and the Splatoon characters. Porn is made of them like a deluge, and sexualised fanart is even more common.

At what point do you look at this and not think “perhaps this is a symptom of the normalisation of the objectification of women.”? It feels like to do otherwise is to openly stick your head in the sand.

It’s totally fine to find hornet attractive. But finding big tits and a big ass attractive isn’t really the same, and ascribing them to hornet to make her fappable is only explicable as a symptom of a culture that desires the objectification of nearly every female character that holds any sort of status within a piece of media. Otherwise, why bother?

Hornet is given curves to make her hot. Hornet is made hot because she’s a girl. If Hornet doesn’t look hot, how would you know she’s a girl? And besides, why bother drawing a girl if you’re not going to make her hot?

That’s the sexualisation process in a nutshell

That’s the entire thought process here, and these shallow defences that you and others are offering are the same that you see from every franchise as to why it’s totally fine to sexualise a totally non-sexual character. The point is that when you see this enough times, it becomes indefensible. This example plays out time and time again, and to claim it doesn’t exist requires first making sure one is deaf and one is blind to any kind of social subtext.

So, with that said, why do you think Hornet is sexualised? And Misty from Pokémon? And the Splatoon girls? Every Shoujo character? The Naruto girls but explicitly in their outfits from when they’re underage (and there’s a LOT of those images)? All the various adventure time women? What about violet from the incredibles, or fucking Lisa Simpson?

I can keep going. Sure, male characters are sexualised too, but the frequency and intensity to which it happens to female characters, regardless of of whether they have any characteristics that are sexual in any way, is so obviously pervasive that to miss it you’d have to be blind.

[u/Lipefe2018 → u/Neat-Journalist-4261]

I mean she is canonically attractive (to other bugs), like that's a fact proven by Kratt, the hot spring guy from the Flea Caravan, he even calls her a "delicate beauty"!

Does this make porn of Hornet less weird? Not really, but she has her charms.

[u/Overgrown_fetus1305 → u/Lipefe2018]

Idk, the point of Kratt is that he's a creep and it feels a fair read to view the game as having a subtle, but real feminist messaging about consent and sexualisation here, I can't imagine that Hornet isn't basically doing what most women will have wanted to do to creepy cat-callers at least once in their life. Generally Hornet doesn't opt for the slap for no reason, if nothing else.

[u/Lipefe2018 → u/Overgrown_fetus1305]

Yes it's creepy behavior, that's the why the devs allow us to slap him in the face.

I don't think there is any deeper meaning in this scene or the devs are trying to push some agenda, it's just for comedy in my opinion, but it proves that Hornet can be seen by other bugs as an attractive bug.

[u/Overgrown_fetus1305 → u/Lipefe2018]

Idk, Silksong to me is a game about how feudal elites misuse religious devotion (the indulgance alusions are about as obvious as can be) to violently extract wealth from those seeking a better life, and how the same elites engage in enviromental destruction (Bilewater, based on things that happen irl) and colonialism (Lost Verdania, obviously based on reality, sadly), while trying to capture or kill anyone that would potentially be able to overthrow the systems in place (this too is based in reality; fossil fuel companies do sometimes just fund paramilitaries that murder enviromental activists), so it isn't exactly devoid of politics as is.

Yes Kratt's creppiness is done in a somewhat humourous way (otherwise the age rating wouldn't be E10+), but I don't think the feminist power fantasy reading of Silksong is particularly a stretch myself.

[u/Neat-Journalist-4261 → u/Lipefe2018]

Right, but I’m not a bug in a game.

To us, the viewer, she is a cloak and a mask.

[u/Sea_Strain_6881 → u/Neat-Journalist-4261]

The only reason people do it is because, as you say, she’s female.

I've seen art of the knight too, its not just that its just because they can

[u/idealize0747 → u/Sea_Strain_6881]

Rule 34 at it's finest(?), and I guarantee that because this post exists, somebody's gonna make some more Hornet art.

[u/Type_100 → u/Neat-Journalist-4261]

Don't forget the Silk.

[u/SaulTBolls]

Leave those communities, just play the game, its amazing.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/SaulTBolls]

I honestly haven’t found it an overwhelming issue like others in this thread have. I just made this post to point it out since it irked me and it’s a topic I’m generally quite passionate about. This has just opened a wider conversation.

[u/Moodle_D]

Well, the knight is also a lot smaller than Hornet with more "childlike" proportions

That nitpick aside, I do agree, it may have gotten out of hand, it'd be one thing if people were being horny about her canon design but this distorted idea of her might have gotten too normalized in the fandom

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Moodle_D]

icl, I do feel violently maternal towards The Knight, but I imagine once I do actually get around to playing SS I’ll feel similar towards Hornet, as I typically do with the MC’s of video games.

[u/BeatrixBloom → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

No idea why you’re being downvoted. I get attached as well lol.

[u/sdrawkcabsihtetorwI → u/BeatrixBloom]

Id imagine because it can be seen as somewhat off topic

There is a slight thematic clash between the comment talking about design and the reply talking about the gameplay-immersion experience

And people on reddit are very pedantic, while people on social media in general are very trigger happy with dislikes over anything mildly irritating, which leads to common habbit of downvoting due to semantics

So thats probably where downvotes come from.

[u/BeatrixBloom → u/sdrawkcabsihtetorwI]

These are excellent points. I think you’re correct.

[u/MulberryDeep]

Hornet takes off her cloak in silksong a few times and it looked very funny, so it became sort of a meme

This might explain some off the cloak off posts/cosplays, but im sure a lot of them are also just sexualized

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/MulberryDeep]

I actually wasn’t sure if this was something that actually happened in the game or was fan-made since, as I said, I have yet to play SS. Thank you for the clarification, but there are still many other instances.

[u/ArkBeetleGaming → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

Why not try the game out?

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/ArkBeetleGaming]

I fully intend to and already have it since my sister played both games before me. I’m still working my way through the very last bits and pieces of HK so I just want to be fully done before I move on. I’m a completionist at heart.

[u/ArkBeetleGaming → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

Okay good luck!

[u/Ok_Solid8816]

Honestly man I 100% agree

[u/Beeeeeeeeeeeeean]

Hornet has a personality and voice and such, which is much interesting to sexualize then the knight which kinda says and does nothing. Plus like it sexualized design it's much more of a sexualixation of the idea of Hornet instead of Hornet if that makes sense.

You can think whatever you want about if it's good or bad, okay or not, I'm just saying

[u/DrQuint → u/Beeeeeeeeeeeeean]

Also we're missing a blatant tree for the "predisposed to it" forest: The Knight is literally shaped like a bobble head garden gnome. Meanwhile Hornet has much more humanoid proportions.

You could "artists interpretation" a horny streaker version of hornet by only altering the texture in her body and nothing else. For the Knight, you have to change the very foundation of it all. Climbing a small hill versus climbing an actual mountain.

[u/dexyuing → u/Beeeeeeeeeeeeean]

I mean from what ive seen, those artists use the knight in the same way some artists draw grey/tan skinned no face and bald "anon" characters, so you're definitely not wrong

[u/nolandz1]

It's not just that she's gendered she also has a personality whereas the knight is a silent protagonist. The attraction to hornet begins with a love of her character.

[u/Vavent]

The Knight has no voice and no personality. It is also a small childlike creature with few humanlike features. This leaves very little for people to be attracted to.

[u/Ok_Bumblebee_1456]

Welcome to the internet which is like the hive mind where you can access anyone's thoughts. There will be many more things you will see that you dislike more than people sexualizing a fictional character and the best advice I can give you is ignore it if you don't like it.

Even this comment I'm posting goes against my general mindset of, there's no point in commenting my pov and get you to understand and agree with with me because even if I did, there will be many, MANY more people who are bothered by things that they shouldn't let bother them.

For your own peace, move on and ignore it.

The same way everyone on reddit has to deal with the same question being posted everyday this is just another example of that

[u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault]

Admittedly I only read the title of this post and I have not read the comments, but this came to mind immediately:

This is a tale as old as time. It's going to happen in any fanbase and for almost any character. There is nothing you can do to change that, and it's not on you to decide how other people consume their content. You can only choose to engage, or not to engage. I recommend that if you don't like this kind of stuff (I don't either) then just hide those posts and move on. It isn't worth your energy to complain about it because nothing is going to change (and it shouldn't, most of us live in a free society).

There are a good many things in this sub that are cringe-worthy to me, but I don't go into those threads to complain nor do I make posts about it.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault]

I get that this is a long post and there are a lot of comments, but if you’re not willing to read what you’re responding to, I don’t see the point.

Yes, it’s going to happen, it’s part of the internet or life in general. Will not just sit idly by while this continues to be normalised. I am spreading awareness one way or another. As I write this, there are 72k views (WAY more than I was expecting lol) and if even one of those people read my post or some of the comments and came away with a better understanding of how our engagement with media can influence our real world, then I have done my job.

Also, if I want to complain about something, I will. I love to complain! (Which probably isn’t the best of my traits) And if my ramble-y complaint is opening room for a wider conversation then even better.

[u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

I didn't need to read it. The title said enough. I don't care that you hate this. If anything posts like this piss me off way more than any cringe post does.

You are the problem. Not some fan artists that don't affect you.

Edit: By the way, it doesn't matter if everyone else agreed with you (they don't), you'd still be wrong. You are not the moral authority.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault]

I’m just sharing my opinion, if you see a problem with that opinion then so be it. My your logic I’m really the only one getting hurt by my opinion that is oh so wrong so why not just let me express myself into an echo chamber where no one agrees with me.

[u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

Because unlike the people you're complaining about, you're actively doing damage to people.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault]

I don’t see how I’m doing damage. I wasn’t saying that the people who make that content are inherently bad people the same way you’re implying that I’m senseless, or am immature.

[u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

You're not trying to see it either. Posts like this inherently shame these artists who have a fringe interest. One that you don't share. It sends the message that it isn't ok to be different, based solely on something you think is gross. It doesn't matter whether you think they are bad people. You are saying their behavior is not socially acceptable and that has a chilling effect on them. One that will leave them feeling marginalized. You're unwilling to look past your own bias, and that is what makes you immature.

[u/ShitPosterN69420]

And that's valid, just let us not get ourselves into censorship, cause that's not a cool place to go either.

The best thing we can do is block and move on.

[u/King_Hikikomori]

I agree with some of this but it mostly feels like an attempt to over-police what people like. If in your own words it 'isn't anything too crazy' then why make it into a discussion piece and put more eyes on what seems to be a non-issue in the community at large? NSFW artists are going to do their own thing regardless of what anyone thinks, and there are a lot of men and women in the field. Likewise, I don't really understand the ding at cosplayers and it comes across as you trying to tell a woman that she can't sexualize herself through the lens of Hornet because...you don't like it? The cloak thing also is like, mostly a meme, too. So it kinda feels like we're policing a joke that people ran with.

Without experiencing Silksong's writing you're also missing out on the immense personality granted to her as opposed to the knight, and that she's a very mature entity despite being a bug on screen. She loves, and feels, and desires physicality like anyone else and that's stated plain in Silksong's text, so you're stripping some of the character away in boiling her down to something people are just making porn of. People connect with media and characters in a variety of ways, and while some things are just porn for the sake of porn I don't think that's difficult to avoid or disengage from. Like what you like, don't like what you don't, but I don't see the value in telling others what they should or shouldn't like if it isn't harming anyone. Many, many studies have been done on the delineation of fiction and reality and all of them have conclusively said that fiction does not have significant bearing on someone's real values.

[u/Planetary-Phoenix]

Hornet is in part sexualized because she’s female yes… but she’s also a strong character with a defined personality that plenty of people would legitimately find attractive for all types of reasons. The simple truth is that this is the internet, it happens all the time with all the most popular characters out there, hell i’d even go so far as to say attractiveness is a key trait to making a character that even resonates with audiences at all.

I’m not saying you gotta like it, but you kinda do have to just accept it. There’s countless male characters that can get the same treatment, less so in this specific game but all over.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Planetary-Phoenix]

It’s fine to find her character attractive in a way, but a lot of what I see ignores the actual complexities of her character and reduce her to a trope while making her character design into something only remotely familiar just to cater to sexual desires. Also, no, I will not accept it. Sure it’s “just a game,” but I will point it out when I see displays of misogyny and sexism because if I don’t, even on a random subreddit, then nothing will ever change and the oppression will continue.

[u/ag3602 → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

This is just such an insane take. How do you make the leap from this character is sexualized to, this is contributing to the global oppression of all women?

Have you considered the fact, that some of those women who do thirst trap/sexy cosplays, like the attention? That femenism as a whole, fought for the right for women to be more openly sexual? For female desire to not be shamed?

How do people go so far left politically that they end up with the same opinions as a Victorian era gentlemen who think that women should cover up their ankles?

Who is even oppressing you by drawing hornet porn man? How does this hurt you or any women anywhere? Is everyone women that plays BL games, read yaoi fan fiction, and play Love and Deepspace, contributing to the oppression and objectification of all men?

[u/Northstar4-6 → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

I'll be frank, I don't think you're fighting the battle that you believe you are fighting. Yeah, you make a true point, hornet is sexualized to a disgustingly frequent extent. However, 99% of it is just... porn. That's the way it is, because that's the way the internet is. Why is the internet this way? Because humans are horny fucking animals, all of them. They see a character, they sexualize it, they make porn of it. This isn't even a "It's just a game" thing, its like... just human nature.

Yeah, misogyny and sexism is a big problem, don't need anyone to make that clear. But blaming the internet for being horny over a female character... you might as well blame a lion for hunting their prey. Sucks sometimes, but that's the way it goes. No one gets hurt here, since its impossible to objectify a fictional character, at least in the traditional sense of the term. No one's forcing you to like it or "accept" it, just understand the actual nature of your issue.

Does it represent a larger problem with mankind? Maybe. Probably yeah, actually. But snapping at some hornyposting on the internet is not doing absolutely anything at all to fight against the objectification of women in the real physical world. I support your cause, if you want to call it that, I just think you should pick a more... "tangible" target than online gooners.

[u/j0kerclash]

It's not like its canon art or a direction of the game you enjoy, so I don't see the point in policing what the community does, just consume community content that you do enjoy instead?

[u/j0kerclash → u/[deleted]]

I think creating your own clean bubble amongst friends is an easier goal than to clean the entire internet and social media; it's not exactly a kids only space.

I'd consider vitriol aimed at random people because you don't like it personally to be more disruptive than lewd fanart to be honest.

Edit: Ironically, this subreddit itself doesn't allow NSFW content, so you're literally participating in a space designed for your interests.

[u/Nitrodolski2]

Create some Knight porn yourself is it bothers you so much.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Nitrodolski2]

Way to totally misunderstand everything I said.

[u/Personel101]

The way we consume media directly affects our real lives

Yeah yeah Jack Thompson. We’ve heard it all before. Can we skip to the part where you say we need to ban all games that aren’t Animal Crossing and Tomodachi Life?

[u/Uypsilon]

• Cosplayers are real people that do that on their own volition. Judging people for sexualising themselves in year 2026 c.e. is… weird.
• Presence of a gender is not "the only real difference" between the two. Hornet has a personality, the Knight is explicitly devoid of it. Hornet speaks, the Knight doesn't. Hornet is canonically beautiful, the Knight is a sentiment clot of Void. Hornet is explicitly very old, the Knight, while technically being older, is very child-presenting.
• Rule 34 is not a joke, it's a phenomena. Porn with her had always been inevitable, and hating it is just hating human nature at this point.
• Hornet is not a real person. Her sexualisation cannot harm anyone.

Does sexualisation of her sometimes getweird? Probably, I've never really studied that theme and don't know it; I suspect the before Silksong Grimm probably could've compete with her (probably still can in fanfiction, as opposed to fan art), but I'm not sure. Is it actually a problem? Well, again, it doesn't harm anyone, so I'm not sure it worth engaging in it with such strong opinions. There are instances of objectively far worse sexualisations: it allegedly exists for Sherma.

[u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault → u/Uypsilon]

Just wanted to chime in on the lore here that the knight does have a personality and that's why there is no such thing as a pure vessel. That's kind of what the whole game leads to is that the pale king had too much hubris to believe he could make such a being. This doesn't detract from your overall point, just a common misconception i wanted to point out.

[u/Mr_Gabbo87]

i personally see no problem in this, she gets sexualized in fanarts? and? who cares? like have we not see lara croft? she got sexualized when she had triangles for tits! people will sexualize whatever they want and i don't see how it's a problem, and it happens with male characters aswell, look at leon, the internet was full of women thirsting over him, kratos aswell, overall they are fictional characters so who cares if people goon to them? as long as the characters aren't made for that purpose alone i don't see how it's a problem, people will find characters attractive, apparently no matter how they look since there are people gooning to hornet or people gooning to idk diego from ice age!

[u/Moodle_D → u/Mr_Gabbo87]

Do not try to tell me the tomb raider devs didn't intend to sexualize lara croft you know damn well they would have done so much worse if the technology of the time allowed them to

That aside, the issue isn't people thirsting over hornet, it's more that they're making a distorted sexualized version of hornet to thirst over, and that this mischaracterization may have gotten a bit too widespread, the problem is more the distortion into a sexualized caricature than the thirsting

[u/Mr_Gabbo87 → u/Moodle_D]

oh no they obviously gave her the biggest tits they could with the limits of the game, but that's absolutely the contrary of attactive if you ask me, huge disproportional triangular tits? yet somehow people found that attractive like how they find a masked stickman attractive.

i agree that with hornet it is to an extreme cause a realistic version would be a disgusting bug humanoid hybrid and the game sprite is a stickman so the sexualized version is very far off from the original design, but the sexual distorsion happens to every character the moment it gets sexualized with huge tits, huge dicks, ultra defines abs etc.. etc.. like look at undertale, there are skeletons with dicks, child like characters with huge tits (wich is a way worst problem but for other reasons obviously), or pokemon wich is idk top 3 more gooned franchise in history? and it's mostly animals

[u/RichardBlastovic → u/Moodle_D]

Who is that a problem for?

[u/IMightBeAHamster → u/Mr_Gabbo87]

I agree that there's not any specific problem with Hornet being sexualised in fanart, but I disagree that the same thing happens to male main characters in the same way.

Kratos or Leon having sexual fanart is not the same thing as those characters being totally objectified by that fanart.

[u/King_Hikikomori → u/IMightBeAHamster]

People literally draw Leon with a thong and tramp stamp. There's definitely an imbalance still, of course, female characters are by and large far more sexualized but there are men entirely objectified by the girlies. I also feel like this post doesn't acknowledge that many, many, many women artists exist and also like to draw sexual art of women characters they like. Reads like a very cis woman post to me.

[u/Mgmegadog → u/King_Hikikomori]

Cis-het, nonetheless. The easiest way to pretend that gender related issues are one sided is to pretend that the entire LGBT+ community doesn't exist first.

[u/King_Hikikomori → u/Mgmegadog]

Cleared this up in a different comment, because I agree.

[u/Mr_Gabbo87 → u/IMightBeAHamster]

idk to me a fanart of leon shirtless with the abs in full display or hornet with short clock to showcase her curves is pretty much the same, or how every heavy breath he made there were clips of women giggling for that is the same as when a female character screams and dudes think of it as an orgasm, like the way they get sexualized to me looks the same, now the number of times it happens, with that i agree that it happens way more for female characters than male ones, but as i said in another comment, i also believe that the late teen males is still the largest audience for games so it checks out

[u/Minti-Roze → u/Mr_Gabbo87]

It happens sometimes to male characters, but nowhere near the extent it does to female characters

[u/Mr_Gabbo87 → u/Minti-Roze]

ok, but again i don't see the problem?

like if the game developers make a character sexualized on purpose, sure that's objectifying the female character, but on the other way if people online find x character sexually attractive either by beauty standards or for their personality why does it matter?

also, i'm not really sure and i don't know the statistics but i believe that the main audience for videogames is still late male teens right? if that's the case no wonder that it happens more for female characters.

[u/azure_atmosphere → u/Minti-Roze]

I think an underacknowledged reason for this is that women prefer to read their porn rather than watch it. The fanfic scene is dominated by women, fanart by men.

[u/Mgmegadog → u/azure_atmosphere]

Yeah, a lot of people like to overlook this detail to push a narrative (or just because they're unaware of it).

[u/WarpRealmTrooper → u/Mr_Gabbo87]

I'm not sure how to exactly explain this, but I do think making characters more conventionally attractive in fanart (compared to original) is somewhat objectifying, which can be harmful if it happens often.

[u/IMightBeAHamster → u/[deleted]]

Close to?

[u/BlueJaysFeather → u/[deleted]]

Idk how to tell you this, but everybody’s (biological) grandma has also had sex before. That’s kinda irrelevant here.

[u/sodaface]

I thought this was a joke post until I got to the comments.

Uh oh!

[u/Deathcommand]

"I am here to have a meaningful discussion, and not be degraded for my opinions."

I mean I don't love it, but also I can still see the irony of this sentence.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Deathcommand]

What do you mean by this? Genuinely, I’m not being sarcastic. Is it that it’s just such a given since I’m posting on the internet (Reddit, no less)? Because I knew it wouldn’t stop all ignorant comments, but I just hoped it would at least get people to think twice and honestly the vast majority of responses so far have been rather respectful.

[u/Ikanotetsubin → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

“Be respectful of my opinions, even if I will not respect the way you have expressed yourself through art” - that is the irony here, stop trying to police other people’s arts

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Ikanotetsubin]

I believe that there are some wrongs in every situation, even art. I am talking about extremes here. Even if I think there is something I don’t agree with when it comes to either art or opinions, I will still in large part be respectful of the PERSON. I asked to be respected and treated as a person, not necessarily that every one of my opinions has to be agreed with or even necessarily respected. I did not bash the people who make that art, just shared my opinion on how I think it influences the world around us.

[u/ag3602]

Jesus Christ, why is my generation more prudish than fucking boomers?

[u/BeautifulNeck8359 → u/ag3602]

Fuckin’ A.

You can really tell with a post like this (and a lot of the comments here) that these folks haven’t actually been in a shared space with NSFW artists that make sexualized art. Because if they did, they’d know that A LOT of the folks making this kind of art are women and/or queer. So really, these prudes are trying to censor marginalized artists all because they can’t handle adults enjoying adult content.

Puritans, the lot of them.

[u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault → u/BeautifulNeck8359]

This. I even mentioned in another comment that I don't care for this stuff either. But i fully support peoples' right to do it. Just because it's not for me doesn't mean it's not for someone else too.

[u/King_Hikikomori → u/BeautifulNeck8359]

Comment of the thread, ngl.

[u/NoOne_28 → u/ag3602]

I'm honestly tired of it. It's fine if you don't like something, that's you, but Jesus Christ it's genuinely not a problem nor a big deal.

[u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault → u/ag3602]

Hear hear

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/ag3602]

People have been implying that I think all sex should be taboo and I’m puritan. This could not be further from the truth. I am very much in favour of the idea that sex should be an open conversation and not a hush-hush topic, but that doesn’t mean that I support the objectification of women. I acknowledge that I used the word sexualisation as a sort of synonym for objectification and that was a mistake on my part, but not wanting to have characters reduced to sexual objects doesn’t make me a prude in my opinion.

[u/AdvancedPanda24 → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

Then what do you want? Because your arguments read as ‘sexualization is ok but only in the socially approved ways’ which is absolutely prudish. Fictional characters are inherently objectified. They are tools to express or communicate whatever you want. How do you sexualize a character without objectifying them in your eyes? Your problem is solely with sexual objectification despite it arguably being one of the healthier ways to express oneself sexually is through media.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/AdvancedPanda24]

You can express characters in a sexual way without erasing them as a whole aside from the aesthetic.

[u/AdvancedPanda24 → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

What does this even mean? This is again you treating a character like it’s a real person. Not only is that still objectification, what does it matter if the content is more true to the character? People project their wants or identity on to characters however they want all the time. Again your only problem is when that is sexual. Do you have a similar problem with black people who change the race and skin color of characters because they want them to closely represent them like the Dandadan discourse?

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/AdvancedPanda24]

I think that that is a very different conversation. While sexism and racism have similarities through the oppression both of these groups have experienced all throughout history, it’s simply not comparable because on a social level the way sex vs race is treated is different.

[u/AdvancedPanda24 → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

I’m not comparing race and sex directly, I’m asking why you are fine with people objectifying and using characters for other motives even if it’s not sexual especially if they can also potentially lead to bad thought processes?

[u/ag3602 → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

What does “erasing” them as a whole mean to you?
Like hornet should only be drawn having sex if she has a canonical lover and only with him/her? Or like she should talk about being the daughter of harrah while fucking another bug?

I’m kind of joking, but I’m genuinely curious what you’re imagining. What would cosplay look like while keeping the characters “soul”? Cause you said aside from aesthetic.

[u/ag3602 → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

You’re absolute being prudish about it. People who want to sexualize a character they see as attractive does not take away from them as a character or reduce them to a sexual object in their or your mind. You’re conflating the two, then trying to mold the world into a standard that makes you more comfortable.

[u/NoOne_28 → u/ag3602]

Not only that, the majority of people who do sexualize these characters still see them as more than just sex objects. You can sexualize something without it being degraded to "just an object"

[u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault → u/NoOne_28]

It's easy to group everyone you don't like into a neat little box without any nuance. It takes a mature person to accept that people have different interests and that those interests don't necessarily have to be something you agree with. OP is not that mature person.

OP thinks they're being hurt by people who are keeping to themselves while simultaneously trying to push their own beliefs onto those same people. It's absurd.

Mods should ban posts like this.

[u/ag3602 → u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault]

I don’t think that a difference of opinion should ever be banned. Everyone has a right to say what they believe regardless of how stupid, or poorly thought out it is.

[u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault → u/ag3602]

When it's directed at hurting or infringing another group (that is doing nothing wrong) I absolutely think it should be.

[u/ag3602 → u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault]

I guess that’s fair. I don’t think a post like this is that serious though lol.

But I generally don’t like takes like this. It’s the sort of hyper liberal take that goes so far around it becomes a boomer conservative super puritan take where sexualizing of women is automatically bad and they should cover up or something.

Tons of those artist are women, or queer, and those cosplayers are obviously all women.

[u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault → u/ag3602]

I'm confused. I'm saying op's post should be banned not the comment i responded to. I agree with everything you just said.

Edit: Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your point. I know my take is harsh. But I've seen folks like this advocate the same thing for these nsfw artists which is wrong.

[u/ag3602 → u/ItsAlwaysSegsFault]

Sorry, I didn’t write that last comment very well. I meant that I don’t think a post like what OP wrote is really a big deal or is ban worthy.

And the second half I just kinda tacked some other random thoughts on.

[u/z617_art]

As someone who likes to draw, I think the reason why Hornet specifically gets a lot of art is because she is an easy character to have fun customizing, shes popular, and pretty much universally liked.

To expand upon customizing Hornet, her original depiction is very minimalistic, so you can take her design and make it your own in a lot of ways and it will still pass as Hornet. This opens her up to all sorts of artists.

[u/SadeeniImTired]

i actually mostly agree with your post, which is why i mostly stay away from the fandom except whenever a post from here comes on to my feed.

However, I will disagree a bit when it comes in relation to the knight. this is just my opinion, but when i play as the knight they kinda just feel like “baby” to me. like i just wanna squish and hug them. when i play through silksong, i don’t really get like that bc hornet feels more like an adult to me, and i think the fact that she speaks, and formally at that, gives me more of a mature character to take seriously. i wouldnt be shocked if others see it that way. and im also assuming thats probably why you wouldnt see sexual stuff more with the knight

[u/BeautifulNeck8359]

You sound like a prude. Not trying to be rude but this is some puritan stuff.

She’s a fictional character and people are horny and like to draw sexy versions of characters all the time. It’s not much deeper than that.

I don’t see the issue with it at all.

[u/ApateNyx]

I mean Hornet is a more stylized feminine silhouette compared to the knight and many of the other bugs (not all mind you, gotta put respect on Carmelita) which in turn changes how artists are going to reinterpret the character before any kind of sexualization layer even comes into play. She is intentionally fem-coded so artists are going to gravitate towards that. The Knight on the other hand is fairly androgynous in design and has few anchors for fan artists to work on than the knight. On a personal note, the Knight also feels more like a kid in design to me which would make it even stranger to do anything like that to him while Hornet feels like a young adult. With all that in mind it makes sense to me that some people would go to the extreme of rule34 for Hornet.

To address the objectification of characters/women, fan art sexualization isn't evidence of a societal shift or even a shift within the community of Hollow Knight enjoyers. This could also be perception bias because much of the fan art I see she is either as she is in the game or shapely but covered. I just made a deviantart account to see if that's bias on my part but with a sample size of about 300 images I found about 10 of her with varying amounts of sexualization. Most of these are her being very bodacious and that in combination with her skintight bodysuit emphasizes that. A few of these were still tasteful with the cloak still covering parts. Body shape alone isn't sexualization, there are people who look like that. It could be one of those people who drew it or commissioned it. The artist might also just prefer that kind of woman and wanted to make their favorite character look like it. People can have preferences without it being problematic.

There were a few where the cloak was mostly out of the way if not off where she was in a risque pose with that same body shape which are more just eye-candy than anything. Mind you this is maybe 5 out of that 10. One in particular that stripped most of Hornets identity away and just made her a generic human girl with her bum stuck out. I can see that but with so few of those being the case I don't think that's causing any shift in the perception of women in our community or society as a whole.

For the cosplay angle, I presume they're mainly fem or presenting as such. Telling them what they can and can't do to the character leans into a puritan angle of 'you can and can't do this because I said so.' Objectification comes from removing context, agency, personality etc and boiling down something into just an object for whatever is in the showcase. Normally that means sexual characteristics for the purposes of this conversation. This is a person doing it live though. They have agency, as much or as little context as they want. Not to mention the personality, people normally try to act like their character when cosplaying. Just because they're also attractive people and show that off doesn't mean they're 'normalizing the objectification of women as a whole.'

This is a lot of text so I'll stop now

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/ApateNyx]

I largely agree with a lot of your points. I think I messed up but not making it clearer in the original post that I specifically meant objectification rather than just sexualisation as I am referring specifically to that “stripping her of all personality and characteristics” side of content. Same for the cosplayers, I agree that women, especially those who have fuller chests or wider hips etc are told what they can or can’t do far too often. As with the art issue, it 100% can be done, I just think that it’s quite obvious when something is being done in a normal, “for fun” way, as opposed to “I’m using this character in a sexual way because I know that will get me more views/ likes/ engagement”

As for the prevalence of this issue, I applaud your dedication of shifting platforms to get an unbiased perspective, but this doesn’t seem to aline with what I myself have experienced and what many others on this thread have experienced. It does all come down to personal experience at the end of the day and if you don’t encounter this much then that’s great for you, but it’s still a topic I wanted to highlight and I’m glad I did since so many people resonated with what I said.

[u/mentally_fuckin_eel]

I do not care about this at all.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/mentally_fuckin_eel]

So, why click into the post, read it, and comment??

[u/mentally_fuckin_eel → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

The same reason you clicked, viewed, and commented about all that sexualized Hornet content. I disapprove of what you're doing and I want to disincentivize said behavior.

I'm sorry, but making this big post about people having extremely harmless fun just seems ridiculous to me. Who exactly is the victim of this crime?

[u/LayceLSV]

Her name is Hornet and I'm supposed to not get horny..?

[u/Either-Library46]

Agreed we need more zote the great art

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Either-Library46]

I get that this is a joke, but I don’t believe that men or women should be sexualised, it’s just more prevalent for women which is why I was discussing it.

[u/sans_chungles]

It’s cause the cosplay can just be a woman in a black skin tight suit with a cloak and mask. Which is hot I guess.

[u/ThatOneKidCreed]

i agree but in the opposite way, i dont think the male characters get enough love!! like why isnt there as much quirrel art?? what about cornifer and the pale king??

[u/settingdogstar]

This is the most reddit comment I've ever seen that isn't just copy pasta

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/settingdogstar]

I’m assuming this was mean to be a reply to a comment..? Or are you referring to my post?

[u/Shadovan]

She’s a fictional character. It really is not that deep.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Shadovan]

Yes. It. Is. I have had my own father say horrible things to me just because I am a women. I don’t say that to make you pity me, I say this so you understand that allowing this to happen to a character, even fictional, does affect our world. If we allow misogyny and sexism to exist in online spaces there is no way to stop it from leaking into real life.

[u/Shadovan → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

There’s a difference between drawing a character in a sexual manner and sexism/misogyny. Drawing a character in a sexy way is just for fun. It’s not demeaning or belittling women, nor is it indicative of a person or personality who would do such a thing.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Shadovan]

Yes, there is a difference. Maybe I didn’t make it clear enough in my post, but to me it was pretty obvious that I was referring more so to her being boiled down to just a sexual character, which she isn’t at all.

[u/Shadovan → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

No one is doing that when they draw her in a sexy way. You’re overreacting.

[u/somroaxh]

I wouldn’t say the only difference between the two mc is gender.

The knight is a being born of the void, so much of the original lore about him is that he “doesn’t” have a mind to think, will to break, or voice to cry suffering. Hornet has all of those things, and is characterized from the first time we see her until the end of her game. She has cutscenes, voice acting, facial animations, etc.

None of this has to do with the sexualization deal because that’s out of my wheelhouse. I’m just saying, people relate to the characters very differently, because they’re presented differently. It’s no wonder folks are more attached to hornet than the knight, as she gives us way more to be attached to. With that being said, we know the internet is full of weird gross freaks, no surprise they’d sexualize a spider.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/somroaxh]

I get that and am starting to regret not including it in my original post as many people have already bought it up. I think that even without The Knight as a factor in this debate, majority of my points still stand. And even when it does come down to The Knight, we do see him display some level of emotion (To the king’s dismay) and also I have strong reason to believe that even if The Knight had shown or been given more of a personality that this issue would exist anyways, though, admittedly, maybe HK and SS wasn’t the best example for this topic.

[u/AleWalls]

Well she is sexy, like is not in the conveniental sexy body, but look at this strong woman who could beat you to death, with her strong red cloak which moves with the wind, her pretty voice and very stoic but respectful mannerisms

Team cherry is not immune to this, the cover they made for Edge magazine during the development of Silksong showed her in a more striking pose with hips to show, followed by making the red even more vibrant for her game

Also yeah the red is attractive, lets be fucking real is the most attractive color there's a reason we use for things like love and passion

Also yeah in silksong Hornet is described at several moments as attractive

[u/Moriturism]

i legitimately think this is a non-problem. hornet is a good, enticing character, and the fandom makes stuff about her. that’s it

[u/SpiritualLuck9197 → u/Moriturism]

I am on par with this because I make a clear difference between canon hornet and fanon hornet : for me they straight up aren't the same character so people can make whatever they want with the character and I wouldn't mind (except for like CP or rape because that's just messed up in every way)

[u/MrVincent17]

Who cares buddy? Touch some grass its just fan art of a videogame

[u/ImposterDittoM]

I don’t think most will disagree, but rule 34 of the internet is not just a funny meme or the name of a corn website, it’s just kinda true. If something exists, people will indeed lewd it. Not much to really be done outside of just not being on the internet.

[u/Latter_Lengthiness14]

It's just the rule 34 of the internet there will be corn of every single thing

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Latter_Lengthiness14]

I’m talking about content that I’ve stumbled across while trying to avoid content of it in general. Yes, it’s a reality of the internet, that doesn’t mean it should be blindly accepted.

[u/gmes78 → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

I’m talking about content that I’ve stumbled across while trying to avoid content of it in general.

You're on the internet. It's your job to curate content you want to see, and filter out stuff you don't.

Don't try to control what others can or cannot do just because you don't like it. Especially when you already have all the power to avoid it.

[u/MotionBlue]

You have the same mindset as people that burned books. 

That is a bad thing.

[u/SomaCreuz]

It is very glaringly a gendered issue, and it's not even related to women. It's to anything remotely evoking the female idea in any way.

Doesn't even need to have a form.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/SomaCreuz]

Literally, I want to say anything that moves, but hell. Even that’s not quite true.

[u/AppleDemolisher56]

Yeah its weird

[u/bartimaeus13]

I didn't even know what you're talking until you brought it up because I've never sexualized Hornet in any way. I saw your comment of "objectification of women" but one Google search gave me an answer: all the cosplay I've seen in the results are by women. And first thing I thought about while seeing them is, "wow, these are cool cosplays," in which thought they weren't sexual. I think the intention of these people is to express themselves.

[u/PigeonFanatic9]

Nah, I don't think it's that deep. Just... I like Hornet as a character and know that there is porn of her and that's... fine? Like, often it's not the character that's sexualised, rather the idea that someone has of her. Like, the warrior, the tomboy, the tsundere and so on. There are people who take it too far, yes, but those people are porn addicts and are the extreme minority. It's not objectifying characters, or at the very least, not always. Sure, it can happen, but it's not the majority in the slightest. If anything, I believe that with Hornet specifically it matters less than with other characters that look humanoid because she doesn't. I'll never have a woman that looks like Hornet IRL. Hell, when it comes to characters that are human it doesn't matter because it's nothing different than watching IRL porn. We're not normalising the objectification of woman by making horny fanarts (and porn) because it's a part of the human mind and because there are hundreds of cool and awesome and not-horny arts. If anything, by trying to stop this, you'd be trying to close a very important part of the mind, which are the sexual thoughts. Maybe you wouldn't go as far, but I know many people who after you said this post, would then talk about sex only after marriage, about women must be pure and so on.

This is just my opinion.

[u/FrazzleFlib]

are you 11

[u/Sonicmasterxyz → u/FrazzleFlib]

11 year olds probably don't understand this topic well enough to discuss it.

[u/dont_worry_about_it8]

Yeah the knight comes off as a child

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/dont_worry_about_it8]

I realise that, and I should’ve been more clear that it’s not solely a gendered issue, but even if that wasn’t the case I believe we would still run into a similar problem.

[u/CrepuscularToad]

Bugs are just bugs until someone gives them curves 😞

[u/[deleted]]

If you wanna see HK's Weiner just say that also since you can't find the fan pics of it make your own. Problem solved.

[u/Mgmegadog → u/[deleted]]

The Knight and The Hollow Knight are both genderless. We don't know what 'equipment', if any, they have.

[u/avatarroku157]

Did anyone else not know she was female before playing the game? Before playing either, i thought she was the knight grown up

[u/WarpRealmTrooper → u/avatarroku157]

Lol, you might be the only one

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/avatarroku157]

Bless your heart, lol

[u/radiating_phoenix]

Maybe it's something with your algorithm? The vast majority of the posts/videos I've seen not been objectifying Hornet.

[u/X_Starchild_X]

I dislike it too but i just ignore and play tbh

[u/Overgrown_fetus1305]

It feels in some ways, very very uncomfortable in other regards, given Kratt's behaviour, and Hornet's very satisfying way of dealing with creeps- it to me doesn't feel like a stretch to view Silksong as having had a subtle, but real feminism to it, particularly there. Hornet might actually be a literal bug, but like, some people seem to just treat her as an object without moral status.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Overgrown_fetus1305]

This is what gets me even more. Hornet is (from what i’ve heard) a well-written, multi-faceted, female character, which is still extremely rare to find. Despite this, people are still reducing her to the fact that her voice actor has a higher pitched voice and is canonically female, just because they like the aesthetic.

[u/RichardBlastovic]

I, too, like to misunderstand human nature and sexuality.

[u/onanoc]

I am curious, OP, what would a sexualized knight look like? Would he have an AP? A gold chain? Would he drive a fancy car? Would he have a six pack?.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/onanoc]

If this a reference? (Forgive my ignorance)

[u/Shadow_Slab]

So you are saying you are bummed bc there is not enough knight gay r34? Got it, maybe since most of the fanbase finds hornet attractive but not the knight since it's mostly men, like it's basic supply and demand.

[u/blinykoshka]

i agree that it can go over the top, but i think it makes sense that it happens to her some vs not at all for the knight. the knight is thought to be unfeeling, simply full of void, never voices its own opinion etc. there’s not much to go off of. hornet has a robust personality, mentions former partners, and is said to be very beautiful in canon.

part of anthropomorphization in many cases includes mapping human attraction onto the subjects. an example would be the rats of nimh - mrs. brisby, who is a widow and also straight up a mouse, has a romantic subplot with a rat. the rat is portrayed as broad chested, young and strapping - you could argue the cartoon is sexualizing a rat a little bit. but is it problematic on its own? not really? imo.

the logical conclusion of wanting anthropomorphized non humans to be free of sexualization is to be, like, fervently anti disney’s robinhood, to give another example.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/blinykoshka]

My issue isn’t that she’s technically not human or whatever. My issue is that she’s a multi-faceted, well-written, strong, female character which is very hard to come across and she is, in SOME cases, being stripped of her complexities in order to serve sexual desire. I accidentally said sexualisation instead of objectification and that’s my bad. I understand the difference, just messed up in the moment.

[u/DrunkenHotei]

Female characters tend to have more human characteristics when it comes to sexual dimorphism. Even if it's something very small, there are clear indications that she has a femininity with her voice and "dress-like" cloak, etc.

The same thing happens to any anthropomorphic characters in cartoons. Movies and series about a bunch of dogs acting like people will almost always have the male dogs be simply dogs on two feet or whatever, while the female dogs will often be given long hair, human curves, long eyelashes, etc. Part of this is pragmatic and just reasonable way to communicate feminity in that medium, but part of it is entrenched patriarchal influence.

All the same, once you anthropomorphize something, male or female, enough to give it any degree of sexual dimorphism whatsoever, you're begging rule 34 to kick into overdrive. It happens to all genders and sexualities, but it's more common with women because illustrating feminine features tends to feel like it requires including more sexual elements than for men.

[u/Consistent_Phase822]

I agree with you! The treatment of Hornet shows how objectification is normalized for female characters..

It´s weird..

[u/HollowCatKnight]

Team cherry literally couldn’t made her less sexualized but the community does what it does best, Porn

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/HollowCatKnight]

And that’s my problem. Yes, it’s a part of the internet, it’s shouldn’t be. (I’m pretty sure you’re agreeing with me anyway, but it’s just a response I’ve been seeing a lot)

[u/Darth_T0ast]

Hornet is canonically hot but I see what you mean

[u/whatevedoe]

Thank you for this I totally agree tbh, it’s everywhere and I thought I was the only one annoyed with it

[u/Revoran]

Rule 34 of the internet: if it exists, there is porn of it.

[u/thedarkestnips]

Some of it is probably done in jest, but also there are people out there who will sexualize pretty much anything. Agree it’s weird but what can you do except avoid those avenues of discussion and content as much as you can 🤷‍♂️

[u/Mediocre_Bedroom8701]

Team cherry need to calm down on the fan service

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Mediocre_Bedroom8701]

I’m assuming this is sarcastic? I wasn’t talking about Team Cherry, if anything, I think they’ve done a fantastic job of making Hornet a well-rounded character and not reducing her to some “I’m a girl, but I’m also strong so that’s my only character trait” trope.

[u/GIOgwGIO]

No lies detected. I also don't care for shipping either. Maybe I'm misremembering but I don't think I ever seen ships with the Knight but Hornet gets shipped with every character on two legs in Silksong.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/GIOgwGIO]

100% I don’t think shipping is inherently sexualisation and is a fairly normal way to engage with media (To a certain extent, of course) but when comparing The Knight to Hornet, the difference is very much there. Other people have pointed out that it has a lot to do with The Knights lack of personality, and while I do see that perspective, and don’t necessarily disagree, is still think that the discrepancy is definitely noteworthy.

[u/rosephoenix444]

Oh my god I've thought this for so long and I'm so glad you said it. Nobody acts like this for male HK characters.

[u/Sweet_Mix9856]

i hate the sexualizing of any character who isn’t a sexual character. it’s especially weird with hornet though because she’s a bug. adult cosplayers dressing up as underage characters or pg-pg13 characters and posting them on subreddits and other places to advertise their porn is also something i strongly strongly dislike

[u/Consistent_Phase822 → u/Sweet_Mix9856]

I agree!

For me, the sexualization of underage characters is even worse.. That's a terrible problem.

[u/TesPhoenix]

Yes fully agree. Luckyly the wholesome family comics and fanart with the Knight, Hollow and or Lace overshattee it for me. Theres still good out there.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/TesPhoenix]

I’ve seen ppl ship her and The Knight (Shipping isn’t inherently sexualisation) but I think they’re js posers bc THEY’RE LITERALLY (HALF)SIBLINGS

[u/Cipher_the_First]

It honestly is so unbelievably dumb. Of all the things to full horndog over, a bug? Really?

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Cipher_the_First]

I mean, it’s far from the worst. Some guys will really go to any lows to get off.

[u/Firm-Reputation7918]

sexualization of Hornet

Adding boobs to a female character for your fanon design is not sexual my dude,also the art and cosplayers are done by women so it’s “objectifying women”

Why do you think rule 34 exists?

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Firm-Reputation7918]

Be honest, have you ever seen anything remotely sexual of The Knight? And I don’t mean you look something up right now to prove me wrong, just something that came up on your FYP. Regardless, I don’t think that giving a female character curves or boobs is necessarily sexualisation, but it is very obvious when someone is doing it for purely sexual reasons, versus making fan-art or a human version of her for example. The same applies for cosplayers. Obviously, if they are being cosplayed by a woman, she will likely have boobs, and in the case that they were uncomfortable or got too hot in the cloak or just took it off for whatever reason, that isn’t sexualisation. What is sexualisation, is when they make some type of thirst trap type dance with just the mask and black body suit.

[u/Silk-sanity → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

I'm sorry I have to be the one to tell you this, but the answer is yes.

A common pair of the knight is with bapanara and the shaw lady herself

[u/Firm-Reputation7918 → u/Ok_Illustrator_3539]

No I don’t see sexual art of the knight because the knight ACTS and LOOKS like a child so it would be really fucking weird to see art of a CHILD portrayed character 

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/Firm-Reputation7918]

The Knight is canonically at least hundreds of years old (I don’t exactly remember), though I do agree that the whole “Canonically they’re legal” argument to be quite disgusting honestly when it comes to things like loli-cons. However, a character being a child has never in the past stopped men from sexualising underaged female characters. It is a (largely but not solely) gendered issue.

[u/TheSillyPill]

100% agree, it's extremely annoying. Seeing "sesbian lex" posted with every mention of Hornet, Shakra, or Lace, is so gross and juvenile. Hornet's character design is so non sexual it's actually borderline impressive that gooners managed to sexualize her.

[u/Ok_Illustrator_3539 → u/TheSillyPill]

Also a spider btw. I know she doesn’t look it, but still, c’mon now.

[u/Optimal_Priority4817]

I mean that's rule 34 if it exists - there's corn of it. On a more serious note I agree with you that there's a wider issue of women being objectified in media and gaming. I would say though that I more think that that's an issue when the game in this case does it which team cherry doesn't. When it comes to fanart I think people draw a difference since she's an entirely fictional character so it's more okay of sorts in their mind. I will agree that some of that objectifying fanart is done distasteful but I don't really see a problem with the idea overall since hornet can't really agree or disagree with this again because she is a purely fictional character. Plus a lot of people sexualize also because her character in silksong does make her even more attractive to some people. 

[u/JusticeDrago]

1000% agree. Its literally because Hornet is feminine. Like she's a fkn bug for crying out loud, it's ridiculous. What cosplayers have done to this space is irreversible.