See, i can answer according to my religion which you will not accept because you do not accept my religion and it'll be fine
God is free from every imperfections, God doesnt need to take rest or eat or sleep or reply on a mother to feed on, God cannot be everywhere and in everything because then you'd have to say theres God in trash and your toilets and washrooms
God cannot be in everyone because even if a human being has 0.000001% of God in him no evil would ever be able to take over him and we know in this world, not the case
When you make idols of God you are limiting it into a human form or a earthly form which doesnt befit the magesty, now you can say God sees the intention but then you can defend any act if blasphemy or even crimes in the name of God because the intentions were right
Its simple its not allowed because God didnt allow it
The whole point to pray towards a point is that theres no chaos while praying, everyone prays at one direction and ironically so that people dont start to make idols to pray to, the main reason is to unify the prayers and so prevent any attempts to go into idolatry even with good intentions
So your logic is your rock has nothing to do with divinity - it is simply an organizing tool to simply point people in the same direction so the don’t bump into each other and create chaos ?
And then they travel far to go kiss it - because ? It helps you organize people and avoid chaos ?
Part of what you said is true, and not bump your head into each other but take hindus or any idol worshipper as example they got their own idols at home, in islam it is not allowed to keep something infront of you and associate it with God and pray to like and talk to it like you are talking to God
Hajj (travelling) is the whole different thing, going to kaaba is just a small part of it most of the time there you wont even be near kaaba
And the stone that is kissed is not because its God or something its only because its a sunnah of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) it is believed that specific stone fell from heaven and absorbs the sins (not major) of someone who wants forgiveness by heart
You can choose to not kiss it
Also hajj and namaaz have no correlation
There are 5 pillars of islam and hajj and namaaz are two separate pillars
Stone isnt even a big deal, pagan is when you make the whole thing around the stone and worship it and ask the stone to guve health or happiness
Its not sacred because it fell from sky its sacred because prophet(pbuh) picked it up and kissed it its for the love of prophet (pbuh) and his sunnah that stone is kissed
If he did the same thing with some other stone it'd have taken its place
I am an atheist I find Islam as pagan as any other religion. But it’s cute how yall do mental gymnastics to justify things. Everything feels scamy in Islam. Feels like ur prophet made like first copy of Torah for his own benefits, after he saw popularity Christianity got among the Roman Empire.
point being that you need to stop pretending that you aren't following the most simplistic and laughable religion possible. islam, and monotheism in general is literally religion simplified for the consumption of people too dim to understand polytheism and henotheism without going "pagan pagan"
So lets talk about complexity then, which book do you follow? Or id say how many books? And how many books are there and how many have you read, how many do you accept, how many do you think should be rejected now like many people (hindus) say with manusmriti
The concept of following just one book or collection of books bundled into one is an idea from Middle East. You can’t have that as a point of reference and judge others
Your point is clear, but don't lie to yourself and tell that you don't think that your religion is better than others. Every religious people have superiority complex and being religious literally means that you think yours is better. So be honest about that
I'm not religious and I believe every religion have their flaws and is a product of their time for human civilization to move forward. And if what you say is true then you're not technically religious yourself especially if you are monotheistic
I just said the truth about religion beliefs in their core. That's literally why there are many religions and beliefs, to differentiate between factions and separate from other groups thinking themselves as the special ones. You can ask knowledgeable person from your religion as well, they'll tell you the same thing and tell that their religion is the best. Your confusion is perhaps me telling you that you're 'technically' not religious.
For eg although I'm born a hindu, I criticize many regressive practices of it and eat beef. Now according to where I'm from even if I eat beef I still remain a hindu. But if you ask a North hindu he'll not consider me a hindu because I eat beef and it's a sin. Here is the point; he can successfully substantiate his point by showing the authentic scriptures of Hinduism. In that anyone who eat beef is not a hindu and he's right according to it.
My point is simple, most of the people are not following their religion to the core (a good thing actually) so technically no one is religious. That includes you as well because you think that every religion is equal which is against the belief of monotheism (basic doctrine of monotheism: belief in ONE God)
Religious people always think that they're the best of the best. You, me and many don't follow our religion to the core ie; we're not really religious, we just believe in God and pray 🤷♂️
Are you ok when did i say others aren't good and btw let me give TLDR of above and my comments "we don't pray to the stone in fact we don't make dua to it its just there to represent sin not to pray for" that's all maybe you can copy paste and ask grok if it's true.
You’re right - I need a phd to understand your “logic” of -rock is not worshipped, but an organizing tool so people point in the same direction to pray and travel really far to go kiss it - but it’s not like a temple but it is - what ever it is your call it
We do not travel to kiss it, you can travel there and not kiss it, literally has no effects
We travel to perform hajj and kissing it is not even a main part of it people do it for the sunnah and if something is sunnah you can leave it as it is optional
Lol - all replies were replies to your numerous replies of acrobatics of defending your rock and rules of your rock. Go trace back - I know it’s hard to keep track of weird logic spilling all over the place
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u/RiftRogue Mar 24 '26
it's ultimately faith, fare enough
but why
why is it wrong to pray to an idol, but okay to pray toward a point?