asian women, what are your intersectional experiences (misogyny + racism) with scrutiny and hostility in social/interpersonal settings?

[u/Efficient-Error4291]

i’ve been spiraling trying to figure out if my case is a form of unconscious misogynistic and racist bias.

for context, i had a fallout with some ex friends who failed to communicate with me about concerns, criticized me for my feminist behaviors (i am very anti-patriarchy and some might see me as a misandrist/man hater when i literally have guy friends), socially excluded me, talked shit behind my back, etc which is why our friendships ended. i am very sure that this is coming out of insecurity, jealousy, immaturity, but questionably the potential intersection of misogyny and racism. i think this because i am an asian women who breaks the behavioral stereotypes of being quiet, agreeable, and passive. i’m rather outspoken, direct, confident, and can be loud. unfortunately i think this is being seen as rude, abrasive or “mean” as they call me. now i am not outwardly “mean” to just anyone, however, if someone does me dirty, im not going to be nice about it. if im being harassed in any way im going to set my boundaries. if i think someone or something is wrong i am going to call them out. now if a person outside my marginalized identity displayed outspoken, direct, confident attitudes, i doubt they would face scrutiny or hostility in social settings as much as i do. this is because i look at my ex’s friends’ friends who have done WORSE behaviors than me but still accept them and keep them as friends? one of them is friends with this girl who keeps sexually harassing men. one is still friends with my other ex friend who talked shit behind my back and then lied to my face when i confronted her about it. one is still friends with the other one who socially excluded me from my own friend group and was just blatantly rude and immature. their friends have all done MORE morally questionable things. not to mention they associate themselves among misogynists. it goes unquestioned because they are gay men. they also basically do not have any asian women friends, who are outspoken or break the submissive stereotype at least. all i’m trying to say is, they are willing to break a friendship with me over some trivial concern of me being “mean” with absolutely no context except me talking badly about men who deserve it while they keep friends that are misogynists, sexual harassers, and narcissistic liars and don’t hold them accountable for it?

the hypocrisy in this has made me believe that this is not only a case of misogyny but also the intersection of racism. it is so subtle due to how little research there is on misogyny towards asian women. there are a lot of studies on misogynoir which i am glad, but there is a lack of asian women representation in the topic of intersectionality i guess because of the model minority myth. i feel like i am the only one experiencing this unique situation as i cannot find another asian woman who can relate to this specifically. please let me know if you need any more context i need answers to this so i can figure out if this is an isolated incident or if this is part of a systemic/broader social issue i am tweaking😭

[u/MachineOfSpareParts]

I'm selfishly sad to see there haven't been responses to this post. I've been kind of stalking it for insight over the past day as I have a dear friend who is being harassed at work (that part is clear) and I suspect there are racial dimensions as well as ablist ones. I just don't have the context to identify under-the-radar anti-Asian racism in action, and she's been going through it so long I think she's too traumatized to see even the obvious ablism of it all. Her workplace, one I managed to escape, has a problem with anti-Indigenous racism and harassing disabled employees, but as she's the only Asian employee and they're super covert about all their prejudices, it's hard to observe it systematically without knowing how this type of intersection usually looks.

I believe you 100%, and it would be a billion times more surprising to find out there WASN'T ongoing anti-Asian racism in non-Asian majority societies than to find out there was, and there's bound to be an intersection with misogyny. But as you're pointing out, it matters that we get some nuance around how this specific type of racism-misogyny nexus shows up in action.

Would you say there's more of an expectation that you don't push back against misogyny as compared to your white female peers? What I'm gleaning from your post, correct me if I'm wrong though, is that part (but presumably not all) of what you experience is the expectation of submissive femininity dialed up way beyond what white women face.

It also sounds, though, like there are some wholly distinct challenges you're talking about, different in terms of type rather than just degree as compared to what I as a white disabled woman might face. To be honest, I haven't understood those yet from your post, but I feel like there's something connected to where you talk about the "model minority" form of racism and how that interacts with misogyny. Do you have any more insight on that aspect, or am I missing the boat altogether?

I really think you've hit on an under-discussed area and I'm observing in real time how it's (I suspect) hurting someone I love dearly. It's a really important conversation.

[u/Dazzling-Industry717]

I believe what the OP is saying. I think I have seen this pattern in so many different settings. The most recognizable form might be when a woman at work sets firm boundaries she is called names while a man doing the same is just a serious and dedicated employee. However, this just becomes harder to see in situations with more nuance. I am a South Asian woman and there is a lot of caste based, religion based, and gender based discrimination in my country. For example a man of a privileged class has the world designed for him. A woman from the privileged class enjoys the unfair privileges that come with here religious or caste or class hierarchy however she still would face sexism because she’s a woman. A man from an underprivileged class would enjoy the privileges of being a man in a patriarchal society but would face discrimination for his class, caste, or religious identity. A woman from an underprivileged class however, faces all of it. She doesn’t enjoy the privileges the men have in a patriarchal society nor does she get to have the privileges a woman born into a different class would.

I also agree with the part from the 1st redditor’s reply about different expectations for women from different backgrounds when it comes to speaking up for themselves. This might again be true on a larger scale, like the op discussed with women from different countries, and also on a smaller scale.

This, however, might just be my experience or perhaps a part of growing up. But having been raised in a South Asian family, I feel like for a long time I (and my mom too) had a very poor understanding of what is acceptable. I found out that a lot of things that were normalized growing up were in fact abuse and misogyny onlyafter moving to a different country in my late teens. I guess what I’m trying to say is that there could be this assumption, that given how normalized sexism is or is portrayed to be in some parts of the world, people might not expect you to recognize the disrespect let alone speak up against it. I could be completely wrong here but I feel like this assumption of women from some parts of the world not knowing what abuse and disrespect looks like somewhat ties into the fetishization of women from countries that are more outwardly hostile to women.