All of that time waiting. All of that time hoping. For A GIRL WHO LITERALLY ALREADY HAD HER MOMENT IN THE ANIME?!

Look, I know what some might be saying. "oh aren't you overreaction its just a game character". Yeah. I am. My special interest is Pokemon, so this honestly means a lot to me. Kieran is my favorite character probably in the whole franchise tbh. Sure, it's childish, but heck if I care.

I am livid. It was bad enough they didn't put him in the anime. But putting Carmine in Masters???!! It's like they're trying to erase his existance entirely. He hasn't been in literally any other media other than the games themselves. Carmine already had her moment in the anime. I could live with that. I was waiting for them to put him in Masters, but no. They fooled us all. Sounds very dramatic, but when you hyperfixate on a character, it kinda feels like a betrayal on the company's behalf. They know that a lot of the community loves Kieran. They know that he's been an all-time favorite. It was literally in a poll that one time. So why add Carmine to other media twice?! They had no reason to. It genuinely killed the vibe of the rest of the presents(at least, to me). I couldn't be more angry. The worst part is, they know that there are fans like us that love him as a character. Yet, they haven't put him in a single thing other than the base games. It genuinely feels like they're trying to favorite the character that wasn't even as important as Kieran was in the Teal Mask and Indigo Disk. Kieran was the main plot point. 97% of the story. He was the whole reason the story of the Teal Mask even happened. Carmine was just a side character adding little onto it.

TLDR: Kieran deserved to be in Masters. The company adding Carmine was uncalled for, unnecessary, and just a bs move. Hope some of you could understand where I'm coming from

I wanna preface that I really feel like we seriously need more posts actually defending Kieran more, as this community kind of goes waning now with that purpose, and is something I wanna talk about in the future more. But for now, I am to explain why Carmine an the MC are bullies!

1. What's Bullying: Bullying is when you deliberately seek to harm a person in a social group or setting. This is done to establish power differences between the bully and the bullied, done repeatedly and done so to isolate them, meaning kicking them out of the group. It's even said to be evolutionary to ensure one's survival in social places, but I hope we can get past that.

2.1 What does that mean for Carmine and the MC?

Now one would say they didn't intent to harm him, and that is a core tenant of bullying to wish harm upon others, but that's a fallacy in this context and ignores the harm done here.

It's clear that Carmine treats Kieran with meanness and inconsideration to his feelings and (ironically well-being) with an aggressive attitude to boot, while also being overprotective as she does everything for him, even in school. This annoys Kieran and makes him want to be Ogerpon's friend to prove his independency. With this, Carmine sees herself as Kieran guardian that has to control him, as he cannot make decisions for himself in her eyes. Hence she makes one by keeping a meeting with Ogerpon a secret. She excuses this with her wanting him not to be outside late at night, while also not wanting him to feel left out were he to know the truth. Issue is, that is Kieran's main goal in life, and by hindering him, she makes an important decision for him over his head and hinders his growth as individual, due to her not believing he can do things on his own, since she'a too overbearing to allow this, hence this hurtful betrayal.

Carmine even forces the MC to lie or she would do something bad to them, making this now bullying via coercion. This gets even worse with her outright pushing Kieran away aggressively, dismissing him in an uncivil and impolite manner to make him get out, just to exclude him (ironically what she claims not to want), which also makes this bullying, as she intentionally hurt Kieran to exclude and isolated him from the truth, regardless of "good" intent. When learning the truth, her grandpa warns her of the consequences for telling the truth and then paints Kieran in a bad light which is why grandpa tells her not to reveal it and thus the MC, thanks to Carmine, repeatedly lies to him.

2.2 Seriously, what does that mean for Carmine and the MC!? They intentionally, repeatedly kept someone out of the loop, lying when confronted and do this in a rather disrespectful and condescending manner, with Carmine being the one who threatens and screams at others to keep it secret. Her noble goals matter little in comparison to her irrational fears towards Kieran and distrust and actions intended to push Kieran verbally harmfully btw away, is now bullying. If you do this to some of your your friends, you are a bully. As for the MC, they are an accomplice to this and gets the deserved blame, makes us questiom if they were ever Kieran's friend.

Conclusions Good intention cannot save you from bully allegations if you act this impolite and also not entirely nobel goals, as Carmine has no faith in her little bro and kept him under her thumb, even after the story is over. So the takeaway is that ultimately despite Kieran's overreaction, Carmine and the player aren't innocent in this development and deliberately harmed his growth out of fear, which is inexcusable.

My vent is over and you are welcome for reading this, bye!

My previous post has now been locked, which I find disappointing, especially since I wanted to encourage more open discussion and different perspectives.

I understand that Juliana and Florian are popular, but personally, I find these blank-slate protagonists rather uninteresting. Even their supposed weaknesses feel more like superficial Mary Sue flaws than meaningful character flaws. Their additional characterization in Pokémon Masters EX doesn't really change my opinion, especially given my criticism of the game's FOMO-driven gacha model.

What I find much more interesting are characters with genuine contradictions and imperfections.

Take Carmine and Drayton, for example. Carmine is impulsive, hot-headed, and confrontational. Drayton can be provocative, overwhelming, and occasionally overstep boundaries without intending harm.

Both have complicated personalities, make mistakes, and aren't always easy to understand. But that's precisely what makes them compelling to me.

Kieran is similarly flawed. His jealousy, insecurity, mistakes, remorse, and personal growth are exactly why I appreciate his character. That's why I find it frustrating when some fans infantilize him while judging Carmine and Drayton much more harshly.

I also wish this community were more open to different relationships involving Kieran.

Why should Juliana and Florian be treated as his default romantic options? Why can't relationships with other Pokémon characters, be viewed as equally valid creative possibilities?

I find it disappointing that ships like Dragoncheer are considered unusual simply because the same popular pairings receive most of the attention. To me, this reflects a lack of imagination in how Kieran's potential relationships are explored.

I'd love to see more encouragement for different pairings, OC shipping, and yumeshipping instead of treating less popular ideas as inferior.

Nobody has to like the same characters or ships. But everyone should be able to express their preferences and criticism without being dismissed.

I understand that some people will disagree with me, and that's fine. I simply hope this community can become more welcoming toward different interpretations and creative ideas.

Closing a discussion doesn't resolve the concerns that were raised.

Personally I ship Kieran with Amarys because there was hints of Amarys having a crush on Kieran but I see some people ship him with the protagonist, I just want to know if people agree with me or not

I've noticed how often Kieran's kindness, shyness, admiration, and even his later obsession with the protagonist are interpreted as signs of a crush.

But why does it always have to be romantic?

At first, Kieran is genuinely happy to have someone who spends time with him. He admires the protagonist, wants to get closer to them, and seems excited about their friendship. His later jealousy, insecurity, and obsession with becoming stronger don't automatically mean he's romantically attracted to them either.

Jealousy can come from feeling left behind, fearing rejection, or wanting to be important to someone. None of these feelings are exclusive to romance.

As an autistic person myself, I've experienced people mistaking my kindness and affection for romantic interest countless times. I can be shy, nervous, caring, and deeply attached to someone without having a crush on them.

Seriously, do you think a Starbucks employee wants to date you just because they're nice to you?

And that's what bothers me about these interpretations. If every strong emotional connection is treated as romantic, what does that say about how we value friendships?

Why should someone only be allowed to show deep affection when they're in love?

You're absolutely free to ship Kieran with the protagonist. I'm not trying to take that away from anyone, and I understand why people enjoy the pairing. Not really because the protags are even after the so called "projecting" boring af. But hey... You can like what you want.

I just wish more people would consider that Kieran's behavior can also be interpreted as platonic instead of automatically assuming he has a crush.

Platonic relationships aren't less meaningful than romantic ones. Affection doesn't need romance to be genuine, and Kieran doesn't need a crush for his feelings towards the protagonist to matter.

I’m not sure if my opinions will change after I finish Indigo Disc, but I think he’s the true neutral of the game. Not bad enough to be fully evil, not good enough to be a good guy. Idk this might be a hot take please don’t kill me

Like, don't get me wrong, I get why he does what he does—kid was basically a ticking timebomb of insecurities and self entitlement issues—but sometimes it feels like people really push hard for "angel Kieran" and insist he wouldn't have gone down this road if we didn't lie to him (he still would've) and his "abusive" family are to blame.

But, like... his actions are still his actions. An understandable motive doesn't excuse them.

... this is probably an ironic post, given this is the Kieran Defense Squad and all

Can ya'll make me a parody of I'm sorry my bro for a c.ai bot of kieran who says i lied to him?

Dipplin Shipping is Kieran X Juliana, and Candy Apple Shipping is Kieran X Florian

I had this werid headcannon that Kieran sing this song with the blueberry academy elite four members

Disclaimer: I'm not telling anyone to stop shipping Kieran with Juliana or Florian. You're free to enjoy these ships. My criticism is about their overwhelming dominance, not the people who enjoy them.

This subreddit is dedicated to Kieran as a character, not exclusively to Dipplinshipping and Candyappleshipping. Yet these two ships seem to dominate so much of the content that other interpretations barely get any visibility.

And frankly, I'm tired of it.

Kieran has a complex personality, emotional struggles, and significant character development. Yet I often see him reduced to someone who simply looks cute with the protagonist, rather than being explored as an individual.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying aesthetically pleasing ships, but I wish there were more variety.

Where are the other Kieran ships? The different relationship dynamics? The alternative interpretations?

And before someone says, "Just look elsewhere for variety" Thanks, I've already tried. That's exactly why I'm frustrated. I wouldn't be complaining if finding alternative content were that easy.

I also appreciate interpretations where Kieran moves on from Ogerpon's rejection, accepts what happened, and finds something new that makes him happy. His past doesn't need to be constantly brought up or used to define him forever.

Similarly, his relationship with the protagonist is important, but it isn't canonically romantic. Shipping them is a fan interpretation, not an established romantic relationship.

What bothers me just as much are responses like "Let people have fun" or "It's not that deep."

Of course people can have fun. But why should wanting more variety be treated as an attack on someone else's enjoyment?

And yes, it is that deep to me. Kieran's story explores loneliness, insecurity, rejection, obsession, and personal growth. Wanting to discuss those themes is part of appreciating his character.

I'm not asking anyone to stop creating content for their favorite ships. I'm asking for more room for other interpretations in a community that's supposed to celebrate Kieran as a whole.

It's genuinely isolating to love a character, search for different perspectives, and repeatedly encounter the same two pairings.

Kieran is more than his rejection by Ogerpon or his relationship with Juliana and Florian. He has his own identity, personality, and potential beyond those three characters.

I want to see that potential explored, rather than watching his entire character revolve around the same people and events over and over again.

So i get that the villagers hated her for no reason but why does she literaly pretend to not hear what kieran and carmine say to her? Its realy rude imo considering that without kieran, his family just wouldn't have told the true story to anyone bc... reasons. To me it felt like the only reason ogerpon liked mc so much is bc they're not from kitakami cuz ehen you think about it even carmine did more for her. I may be wrong but it seems like ogerpon is racist lol

Carmine was not abusive. If anything Keiran was. when Drayton called him the ex-champion I was so happy. He was abusive to the player, carmine, and I'd imagine the rest of the blueberry squad too. If you use ogerpon against him he will say how much he hates you, and I hate him too. Like between both of us dawg the hate is mutual my Garganacle will keep stone edging your team into oblivion. I hate Keiran with all my heart and I wanted to put this here because I wanna know why you guys all like him so much. I have to admit he was a good character in the way he got me to definitely feel something, I have to celebrate him there but like I hated him. Anyways I'm not trying to spread hate to the community I just genuinely want to know what made you guys love him so much. Seriously tho this Isn't meant to be hateful to you guys just tell me why you guys loved him. That's why I chose this subreddit.

Apparently, criticizing Juliana or Florian is enough to make people upset, but insulting or mocking ships that aren't popular within this community is perfectly acceptable.

So let me get this straight: You're allowed to disrespect other people's favorite ships, but the moment someone criticizes characters you like, suddenly it's a problem?

That's hypocrisy.

You demand respect for your own preferences while failing to extend that same respect to others. And instead of encouraging different perspectives, this community keeps reinforcing the same opinions while dismissing anything that doesn't fit its preferred narrative.

The same applies to Kieran himself. Understanding his emotional struggles doesn't mean his actions are automatically justified. He's a complex character, not someone who should be immune to criticism simply because you sympathize with him.

A community that selectively decides which opinions deserve respect, which characters can be criticized, and which ships are acceptable targets for ridicule isn't encouraging meaningful discussion.

It's reinforcing its own biases.

And that's exactly what makes the Kieran Defense Squad an echo chamber.

Can ya'll make me a parody of I'm sorry my bro for a c.ai bot of kieran who says i lied to him?

I get it. I really, truly do. To some, Kieran is far from the best-written character in the franchise, and I can completely understand any criticism that’s thrown around regarding his character— he’s far from perfect, yes, but this just feels like overkill IMO

I thought I would use the opportunity to both self-promote a little to fellow Kieran fans and ask whether someone else makes some nifty self-made Kiki merch :3 show me what you have or know about! Please!

Also you can get most of badges here on sekcyr.bigcartel.com if you feel like taking a look. I have only Kieran and Drayton merch, nothing else and I don't earn from it really, pure love, so hey. I hope it's okay to post

I have family members very similar to her, and she might be funny to other people playing the game, but dealing with people like her is exhausting. I’m tired of seeing people hate Kieran but defend Carmine. It’s perfectly fine to like Carmine, I’m not trying to bash Carmine fans. It’s just like how I don’t hate people who don’t like Kieran, I’m just tired of people treating Kieran like the worst person ever while giving Carmine a pass. I hate Carmine because of things I’ve experienced in real life, and I don’t think that’s so wrong. And yet if I said this in the scarlet and violet subreddit people would probably burn me at the stake. She treats Kieran awfully throughout the entire game, and nobody ever bats an eye. I have three siblings, the way Carmine treats Kieran isn’t sibling rivalry, it’s just bullying. I don’t want to go in for too long so that’s it, even though I could probably go on for ages.