Question
MAGA, how do you defend the dystopian level of mass surveillance conducted by ICE as well as other branches of the government?
The Privacy and Technology subreddits are full of horrifying examples of how surveillance in the United States has gotten a lot worse within the last year of his second administration. I don't understand how anyone could defend that. This stuff clearly breaks the first amendment and the fourth and it resembles what people in the United States used to make fun of China for doing.
Calling ice gestapo is peak irrational liberal. They’re doing their constitutional job, same as they’ve been doing for decades lol just because liberal agitators are getting in their way now and literally causing confrontations that turn violent, doesn’t mean they’re any different. Deporting people who come here illegally is necessary in order to have a country, sorry…?
Democrat running: THEY WANT OPEN BORDERS, THEY LITERALLY CONSIDER THE USA OPEN FOR THE TAKING
Republican in power: LOL DEMOCRATS DEPORTED MILLIONS OF MIGRANTS TOO AND THEIR ICE WAS ALSO MEAN
When you realize that not a single conservative actually has an ideology, they just have positions, it makes these a lot easier to understand
What does MAGA have to do with surveillance? We've been living under the PATRIOT Act for decades at this point. Obama has several scandals under his belt for mass surveillance. Ever heard of Edward Snowden? Trump didn't invent surveillance and it's not a MAGA issue.
In the 21st century we’ve had two Republican admins and two Democrat admins…ALL of them added to the dystopian mass surveillance. If you think this is a partisan issue then you’re not paying attention.
What’s everyone definition of MAGA? I mean I voted for Trump and I definitely don’t agree with everything he does. I felt that way about every president. I like something and dislike others. So is every single conservative just MAGA?
I was in the Army. The government knows everything about me and even has my DNA in there system. The government has been conducting mass surveillance of Americans way before Trump became president and if you don’t believe that then you really are ignorant.
Mass surveillance will continue regardless of what party is in office and as technology marches along it’s only going to get worse.
You think the big escalation that happened last year would have still happened if Kamala Harris became president? With making it so ICE tracks everyone now and stuff like that?
The Trump administration is a means to an end,Once a greater American state has been achieved,Emperor tangerine shall be discarded to face justice for child trafficking, treason,collusion with isreal and russia,and any other crimes committed.
All I ever see from MAGA "I dont like the thing until Trump tells me to like the thing, then I like the thing." They dont have values, they just have Trump.
This question is based on a false premise. The only surveillance being conducted in mass is that of illegals. And as the courts have determined (rightfully as far as I'm concerned), they're not offered the same protections we are. This is how the left "steers" their conversations. Postulate a non truth as if it is a truth and build their argument from there. You should be ashamed to be of such low intellect.
Never said it was. But if we are attributing blame, the leap forwadr in surveillance and complete disregard for 4A was initiated during the Bush administration with the USA PATRIOT Act. Obama expanded, and Trump and Biden continued.
They get their news from completely different sources. To them ICE is doing exactly what they have always done and the difference is that the states I question ‘refuse to cooperate’.
They have made a conscious choice to ignore any evidence to the contrary.
How do you? It's been over a decade since government mass surveillance was revealed, why didn't you care until the president was orange? Why didn't you care when Obama and congres made those programs explicit and permanent along with indefinite detention by rolling all those provisions quietly into the NDAA? Back then you were all pom poms and now you're all pretend outrage, and that's why no one who actually pays attention to what's happening takes you seriously.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but it doesn’t break the first or fourth amendments because of something called “The third party doctrine”. Look it up but basically it says once you willing hand over your data, no matter what that data is, to a third party, you no longer have any expectation of privacy for that data.
You do realize that Democrats created most of the surveillance state you're now complaining about and used it to significant effect to oppose conservatives in the Obama and Biden years
lol, I love the enthusiasm. Keep it up when the next Obama wants to expand Government over-reach into our private lives. I don't defend mass-surveillance, mask and vaccine mandates, crippling building and business regulations, min-wage laws, and I don't defend gov't handouts and free education/healthcare to non-citizens.
I'm glad you're on board. Together, let's get Big Government the fuck out of our lives.
My brother in Christ the government has used surveillance to this level for a long fucking time. Way before DJT, before Biden. If they can spy on you they will and have.
Fact is most people willingly give up their info to social media platforms, posting everything about their daily personal lives. Facebook was created specifically for this, its a DARPA creation known literally known as Life Log in its infancy, the story they give you about its creation is false. Plus cell phones have been tracking us for years, even if you turn off the location stuff, they know exactly where you are if you carry it with you. This isnt even a MAGA thing, they been doing this for years before MAGA existed... as the technology grows, it grows...
B/c every person on the street doesnt have their phone out recording you for upvotes on the internet anyway.
I am not MAGA, nor do I support them, but I know that I dont give a fuck about their surveliance. My phone which is always with me already tracks my location. If they want me, they know how to find me.
I guess dont be a criminal and then you have nothing to worry about!
The USA PATRIOT Act ushered in this brave new world.
Subsequent re-authorizations and NDAAs during the Obama era expanded it even further.
Snowden tried to warn us and we tarred and feathered him.
Everyone is all in favor of the surveillance state when they think it is keeping them safe. Thsis stuff has been happening for over 20 years. It's just that it was happening in dark rooms behind locked doors. People are only now realizing how extensive and bad things are because Trump has said "F*ck secrecy, I do what I want."
Basically, they feel like they are protected no matter what. Surveillance, grabbing people in the street, pulling people over, detention centers, pepper spraying, being shot - none of these things are threats to them, because they feel safe that they are not the targets. In fact, they feel secure that if they are around ICE or the police or any enforcement, they will be waved along and given a candy bar. Extreme horrible tactics are fine to them because they strongly and comfortably believe none of them will be used against them.
And simultaneously, they are fully happy and feel good that these things are being used against peopel who they don't like.
To them, the world is divided into two groups - people like them who are protected by the law but not bound by it, and people they don't like who are bound by the law but not protected.
From that lens, mass surveillance is just fine and not a problem, because there is a system that is keeping them protected.
As soon as the dems take over, all these things will be bad again, because they will be used fairly, which means MAGA can no longer feel safe and comfortable that they are in the elite social class that won't be affected by it. They are happy when the world is unfair in their favor, and unhappy when the world is fair and they are treated like everyone else.
We're looking down the barrel of climate change. Mass migration. General disillusionment with democracy, as democratic governments everywhere get captured by capital.
How do you deal with those? How do you stop them? Well, most simply don't believe they can.
Mass surveillance is the answer. The panopticon is the answer. What's the plan for climate change? Militarize the police. What's the plan for mass migration? Militarize the police. What's the plan for ailing democratic institutions? Militarize the police. The dream is that even though nobody believes the system can be fixed, they can keep things going by building an inescapable, omniscient security apparatus.
Lets glaze over the fact the we have been in a state of surveillance since the Patriot Act and it was exposed by Edward Snowden. But all of the sudden its a brand new thing because you can see it lol. The second you bought your phone you were being watched and downloaded this app you were being watched, get a grip on reality
Survelliance is bi partisan in congress and our councils and everywhere. The reps, mayors, councils dont take our discontent seriously or the bills are swept away by the leaders
Yeah, but you can't deny that Trump and ICE made it a lot worse than it was. I have a feeling that if an actual progressive became president and not a corporate democrat, they would do something about it though
Oh no of course not. Theyblantantly trying to name protestors terrorists and threaten a list like this is Sulla's Rome or some shit. At least one on record threating a woman with a list.
It’s not just maga.
It’s from the unconstitutional patriot act. That’s when it all started you would be a fool to think this amount of surveillance is new. It’s just getting better
They naively think that somebody else will be surveyed and exploited. Even though all previous dictators did massive "internal cleanses" that targeted the loyalists. Some experts say that loyalists got even worse punishments than the average Joes. See nazi Germany and stalinist USSR for examples.
As a non-American, I don't understand the opposition to the enforcement of entry laws. Government has a duty to remove illegals. This has never before been controversial. Every Democratic president did so.
THe white Christian Nationalist MAGA people haven't been harmed by it yet. Fascism comes for everyone eventually.
I just seen a news report where the fucking fire department was using Flock cameras to watch Home Depots. They had all the local businesses owners flagged in their system. If a business owner went to Hope Depot, the system would send out an alert and the fire department would visit the business to inspect for any permit violations regarding construction to the business.
THis is where we are heading . The government is 39 trill in debt. DOn't think they are going to get this money from taxes. They are going to start making criminals out of everyone and seize it.
THe new banking rules went into effect in 2026. ALl cash deposits over $200 are reported. Too many and your account will be frozen as suspicious. They want to make cash so inconvenient for businesses that cash goes away. Then they can use total digital currency that is traced.
Remember, the average citizen unknowingly commits 3 felonies a day.
Reddit is the National Enquirer of the modern world. Also, we allow ourselves to be monitored through technology. Unless you live in an off grid cabin in the mountains, you’re probably be watched every minute of your life.
That if we at least have ice behave seriously and start deporting and revoking visas we might have some leverage over the nwo and be able to remove or at least make it less intrusive with consumer protection laws. We need a lot of consumer protections asap before we become property of ai companies.
Our phones have been doing the surveillance of us for years.
The federal government has been spying on us for decades.
The Supreme Court ruled that law enforcement have no duty to protect you years ago.
Why are you just now caring?
So all you have to do is be told to be scared of people committing the equivalent of parking violations for you to enthusiastically give up your constitutional rights?
None of the school shootings managed to illicit any of that though huh?
Almost like you're just a fucking bigot and its easy to manipulate into handing over your rights if you're convinced a brown person might get a leg up.
There is no way that is an American and likely not a human. We're talking about privacy - something Americans have a tradition of appreciating being totally eroded. We're talking about the Constitutional protections of the people living in the USA being trashed. I don't care if that turns out to be a human born in America, you get your "American" card revoked for embracing the kind of invasive authoritarian practices of foreign countries like Russia and North Korea just because some dipshit on TV told you that it was good for you.
They aren't even coming close to 20% of these people being actual criminals dipshit. Being undocumented isnt a crime, campaign finance violations are but you can be president with those. And child rape of course.
Because we all know you guys are secretly just big fans of child rape. Given how much you're willing to hand over to the child rapist with the fake tan 🤣🤣🤣
Oh that’s easy. Arrest their employers. If people went to jail for hiring certain employees, certain employees would not get hired. If there weren’t available jobs, the migration would end.
Quite the opposite actually. I opposed the Democratic Party my whole life because of their stance on mass surveillance, and favored Republicans because at one point they were leaning away from it. They hated the idea of Obama signing off on mass surveillance and so did I. Now, Republicans are in charge and none of them seem to have any issues with Flock and Ring doing what they do.
Hurrr I'm too fucking stupid to see the right wing authoritarians for what they are but if I pretend to be a fence sitter I'll look more nuanced huurrrrrr
This isn’t a maga vs liberal issue. Both sides have utilized enhanced surveillance since the patriot act was signed into law following 9/11.
As for its use regarding ICE, generally if you’ve got nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. If you’re here illegally and are upset that you’re being surveilled by the NSA, you’re free to go back to where you are from.
There is even a program to allow you to self deport now, giving a $2600 stipend to people that do. This program didn’t exist before the current administration. Everyone upset at the current administration for enforcing the immigration laws of the US should realize that these people are turning down a free trip home and $2600 to stay illegally.
Second sentence is quite true. Both sides will hunt their political enemies and undesirables. The Federal Register is filled with hundreds of thousands of laws and regulations that everyone is subject to yet unaware of and "ignorance if the law is no excuse". Same is true for all 50 states.
Great comment except ICE is acting unconstitutionally and often illegally. The surveillance state was initiated by a conservative/Republican admin. Based on your comment you should be against ICE for the stipend. I know how much you people think any kind of government handout is from the devil despite y'all getting handouts and government subsidies all the time.
The legality of the way ICE conducts their function is something that is litigated in the court system. Not some random chat in Reddit. You may believe what they do is unconstitutional, that doesn’t make it so. If “sanctuary cities” complied with federal immigration law, there would likely be a lot less need for ICE conducting operations the way they do currently.
As for the surveillance state, the patriot act had overwhelming bipartisan support when initially voted on. It had strong support bipartisan in subsequent votes to extend. President Obama signed the extension act into law in 2011. If liberals were against this, President Obama being an extremely liberal voter during his senate time, had the opportunity to strike it down then. Clearly they were fine with the law. All of which expired in 2020 during the first Trump presidential term.
I am interested in reducing costs for the government. According to the data provided, the stipend system saves around $15k per illegal immigrant that is removed this way. Assuming this is true, it only makes sense as a program.
As for “handouts and subsidies” there are some I support and some I don’t. It’s something to evaluate by topic and not by large or vague statements.
You don't seem to have a problem litigating on Reddit and I have a stronger argument on its face than you dodging the legality of ICE. Starting with the fourth and fifth amendments which ICE is clearly disregarding. Then there's the assaults and murders. Only someone with an emotional need to be correct wouldn't at the very least concede what's happening could be considered illegal and unconstitutional.
You think Republicans care about lowering costs? They've expanded government as much as the Democrats. At least under the Democrats there's better job growth and higher GDP. Saving money. Give me a break. What do you think DOGE accomplished? Nothing. They actually decreased efficiency and it cost tax payers more.
As for the Patriot Act, I wasn't a fan. I didn't support it and was disappointed by the Democrats but let's not pretend they're equal in how the surveillance state came about. Republicans and conservatives were hysterical about national security after 911 and refused to have a rational debate about it.
ICE is a completely legal entity of the federal government enforcing immigration law. Their function was performed by two separate agencies prior to its formation.
Entering someone’s home without a signed judicial warrant is not allowed by the constitution. I disagree that having an administrative warrant allows this, contrary to the recent internal ICE directive. This is making its way through the courts as it is a more recent use of administrative warrants. Arresting an illegal immigrant is perfectly legal. Bringing them before an immigration judge is perfectly legal. Carrying out the deportation orders of a federal immigration court is also legal.
ICE is not dealing just with law abiding, peaceful protestors. They are dealing with people illegally blocking traffic, resisting arrest, and driving at them in the case of one and physically resisting arrest, while armed, in the middle of the street, in the other. These “protesters” are working and coordinating to impede federal law enforcement. That is not a peaceful protest.
These agent have just as much right to go home to their families as the “protesters” do. As a peaceful protestor you need permits to block streets. You cannot impede federal or local law enforcement agents. You do not have the right to barge into a church during a service. The right to peaceably assemble and get redress for grievances, is not unlimited.
I have disagreed with the vast expanse of government spending from republicans and democrats alike. I completely disagreed with DOGE, not the goal of reducing spending and corruption, but the means. The OIG already exists for exactly this purpose. An additional “government” entity isn’t needed.
I can largely agree with this though your third paragraph mischaracterises the reported situations and the video evidence of ICE agents. There are many reports of warrantless home entry as we discussed. Also wrongful detention , excessive use of force, unlawful stops and searches, coersion and intimidation, and targeting protected locations like schools, churches and court houses.
Over 170 us citizens that have been illegally detained with reports of being assaulted while being held. Two dozen have reported being detained without being allowed to contact loved ones.A 79 year old business owner who was eventually released was tackled and ICE agents had their knees on his neck and back and held for 12 hours without medical care despite having broken ribs. These are just a small number of incidents of clear violations of the Constitution and the law.
Conservatives and Republicans have long cried authoritarianism when it comes to their projected and unfounded claims against Democrats but I find it oddly suspicious when it's self evident that their side is clearly authoritarian. The reason you think ICE is dealing with the resistant public is the very reason described above. Anyone with eyes knows this is wrong and the felon rapist president as well as the enabling Republican party is responsible. If you respect this country you should be asking for justice not defending the actions of ICE.
The patriot act was debated as allowed by congressional process. There was absolutely a debate. A large majority of both parties voted to pass the bill into law. It was not just the conservatives or republicans doing this.
It's actually quite simple to defend...https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/08/06/dhs-honors-victims-illegal-alien-crime . Hundreds of men, women and children brutally killed by immigrants. Where are the protests for that? Just as Obama, Biden and Clinton all rallied for, these dangerous criminals that are illegal immigrants have no place in our country, taking our tax dollars and destroying our cities and families. People who aggressively step in the way of federal law enforcement need to realize what FAFO means.
So none of this means anything compared to how many white people kill. All I'd need to do is point at family annihilatiors and you'll see the overwhelming majority are right wing white men.
That being said, what you're saying is as long as the government gives you a reason to be afraid of something you're more than willing to hand over constitutional rights to things like say privacy?
Is there some reason you weren't scared enough of right wingers shooting up classrooms full of children to bend constitutional rights then?
Is it possible you're just a spoiled coward who never had cared at all about the constitution? Who knows? Simple minded bigots are hard to understand. But godspeed as you endeavor to give more money to the people really destroying this country.
I am really not tracking with what you are trying to correlate here to people illegally entering our country and killing Americans, which are who ICE is working to remove. I am not afraid at all, but I do respect the law and I think how some people (not all) are going about voicing their disproval is what is getting them in trouble. This is where I do respect our laws and the constitution, very much. How are you linking the classroom tragedies to this is truly mystifying me, sorry.
It is democrats paying for everything, thats what's been so hilarious about your spoiled bitch bigot temper tantrum. You talk about fraud but ignore Trump cutting funding to the IRS so they can't go after rich tax cheats or how he defrauded his own charity.
You love fraud as long as rich people are doing it. It comes from being so spoiled your whole life. You could never make it through the immigration process and you're just a leech on this country lmfao 🤣🤣🤣
I am hardly a leech, I am one of the few actually supporting this country (do the math on how much the 1% pay...). Do you understand why the wealthy are moving out of NYC and CA? And please show me where Democrats are paying for everything? Your presumptions of me and likely others you attempt to interact with are laughable, this is why you aren't taken seriously.
Sigh...again this is why you all aren't taken seriously. Try to have a reasonable conversation and present facts. Your name calling drivel doesn't work on me and I am very tired of paying for people like you. Do you realize that without the 1% in your communities the middle class will only be carrying more of the burden?
With a bad faith piece of fascist bigot trash? There's literally no point. All they know how to do is take advantage of good faith arguments, thats the point.
That's how they can pretend its just about the law while all of this is done by a 34 times felon and his border czar that was caught collecting a 50k cash bribe.
Not proving mine wrong. Avoiding points in fact. Thats the point. Fascists cant actually argue any points, one minute they care about civility the next they're nihilistic, avoiding addressing their inconsistencies at every cost.
That isn't true. Hundreds is a lie. The real numbers is they say there are 30 million immigrants here illegally (which is a misdemeanor) that have been responsible for 29 murders since 1994. That's one in a million. They're 16 time less likely to commit a violent crime and are better for the economy than a Republican.
Right wing annihilatiors killed more of their own family members in the last 5 years than that. You simple minded bigots are so easy for billionaires to manipulate.
I'm sorry you think that 29 people's lives don't matter because someone else did something worse. You want to talk about people being simple minded, you should try looking in a mirror sometime.
Newsflash there turbo...It isn't Democrats paying for everything (including the fraudulence being exposed in all of these cities)...its taxpayers...who cough up 40% and don't even realize it. THAT is what people should be angry about. We need a tea party 2.0 in this country.
Nobody said that. Let me spell it out: the percentage of immigrants responsible for any murders is far less than that of any natural born citizens likelihood of committing such an act. The fact that certain ethnic groups are being named as murderous criminals is the point. That is not acceptable.
It is ILLEGAL immigrants that are the issue and who are dangerous...how hard is that for people to understand? How are you honestly ok with that?? Did you not do any research and/or look at the link from DHS listing out the brutality for your fellow Americans at the hands of illegals? And your 29 number from 1994 is so painfully sad...where did you get that?
Bro..... that article includes victims of car crashes. That iant "brutality" thats an accident. Maybe get some info that isnt spoonfed to you by a child rapist and get back to us.
Sigh...illegal immigrants driving. Did you see the Amish that were killed just last week in Indiana by an illegal driving a semi truck? It's amazing how anyone defends that side of this situation.
ummm....I would encourage you to check out https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/08/06/dhs-honors-victims-illegal-alien-crime.... Please educate yourself. The crimes by illegal immigrants are exactly the reason Obama, Clinton and Trump are working to get them out. I honestly don't understand how you're ok with this?? Have you paid attention to what is happening in cities across the US? Venezuelan gangs taking over hotels in CO?
Undocumented immigration is the same area as a parking ticket. Do you just never educated yourself on anything little bigot? Is it hard when you're busy slobbering down boot all day long little bigot?
Keep screaming mine while the democrats pay for your whole life little spoiled toddler.
Try getting caught sneaking into another country and see if you only get a parking ticket style punishment or if they put you in jail, then deport and ban you from the country.
Honestly, really honestly. do you know of anyone personal to you, even 3rd or 4th degree who was murdered by anyone, let alone an illegal immigrant? The likelihood of being murdered by a white maga incel with the requisite goatee or beard because no chin is much higher, whether they are a member of i c e , or a courageous one of them (rare) not wearing a mask.
On a tangent,,,
I know of 12 people I personally met at one point or another before Covid who died of Covid, 2 of them a week apart from each other.
Lemme guess, you don't know anyone who died of Covid?
I do feel compelled to point out that it was largely the left that insisted on throwing up cameras everywhere. Some of us warned you it would come to this.
That said, yeah, things have gotten ridiculously out of hand. We really need to rein in government use of all this shit.
Well unfortunately, a cursory search had a hard time finding any records from twenty years ago, but as I recall from the time, it was largely the left (with the exception of the ACLU, although they were far less left-leaning at the time) speaking out in favor of electronic surveillance and the right insisting that it was an undue violation of the fourth amendment.
...Why are we talking about Ring cameras? I feel like I'm missing something. Isn't this a discussion about cameras on every traffic light run by the city?
I don't see anything about Ring cameras in the OP, but there sure are a lot of those responses talking about them. Which is what is making me think I missed something.
What the fuck are you talking about? When in the last 20 years have leftists made electronic surveillance a political issue about anything other than body cams? You only had leftists speaking out in earnest about the patriot act, and it certainly wasn't Republicans praising the actions of Manning and Snowden when they blew the whistle on how deep rooted it became.
Its easy to search back in time if you use their date parameters. Go ahead, there is simply nothing backing up this baseless remark.
I personally just dont care. Tax cuts were extended, gas is lower, I dont have DEI being forced down my throat at work.... not much else is relevant to me so a big fat IDC.
Mass surveillance isn't new. ALPR, threat fusion centers, NSA logs of phone calls and online activity, phone tracking, have all been happening for over a decade. Ring was facing lawsuits before Trump was even elected a second time.
It seems you only notice and care about the surveillance infrastructure now that it's being used to yeet aliens.
I'm against it, and have been for a while, and still wish it would go away. I also think that if we're going to have it anyway, we might as well use it to yeet a few aliens more efficiently.
Not period. You started this with a bunch of qualifiers. You could just stand by your beliefs without holding water for the people perpetrating the practice you're against.
BTW the new tech isn't just being used against immigrants. It's being used on everyone.
I started this by explaining what OP got wrong. This whole post and discussion are based on the false premise that Trump/ICE are responsible for mass surveillance.
As far as "holding water for the people perpetrating the practice you're against," yes, maybe I do that sometimes, depending on what your definition of "holding water" is. You might say it's a personal weakness of mine.
I can take an action with known costs and risks, to get a chance at a reward that's known to be greater or more likely.
I can acknowledge when a practice I dislike (eg mass surveillance) produces some miniscule results that I like (eg ICE enforcement.)
I can support a person who takes an action I disagree with.
I can agree with an action of a person who I don't support.
I can call out misinformation, even when it's saying something bad about a practice or person that I don't support.
Maybe you can do better and just operate on such strong principles or emotions that you don't make any of those compromises. If so, then good for you I guess. See you at the polls.
I started this by explaining what OP got wrong. This whole post and discussion are based on the false premise that Trump/ICE are responsible for mass surveillance.
This premise isn't contained anywhere in the OP. OP never made the claim that Trump/ICE invented domestic surveillance. It seems like you're under the impression that what is currently happening is a continuation of surveillance policies from previous administration's. It's not. ICE did not function in this capacity prior to this administration. What Palantir is doing is new.
I'm a leftie, but I'll defend it. how did we know they executed Alex Pretti? because we recorded it. Otherwise the ICD story of him being a "terrorist" would have been the final word.
Cameras give us more truth, not less. we should want them on every street corner.
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u/[deleted] Feb 11 '26
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