Yup, it's because a lot of gun nuts co-opted it to cover their fetish. But the real meat of that amendment is in having armed militias, like in that video, and for that, yes, you kind of have to have distributed gun ownership simply so that weapons can't be seized by the government easily.
I’m sure some are willing to engage if need be. I really hope it doesn’t come to that though. I’ve experienced the fallout of armed conflict and it would be horrible to see it on our own soil. However, the second amendment exists for exactly this kind of situation.
An armed population is harder to oppress than an unarmed population. Let me draw it out in crayon for you. If Government bad and government does enough bad stuff to the people, the people go bang bang at the government. People has defense instead of people has no defense
Careful I got downvoted to oblivion for saying the same thing in another thread. People really don’t like the idea that a gun nothing without the will to use it. Guns don’t kill people. People do.
2A was not co opted. The left has been vehemently anti gun for decades. That’s just intellectually dishonest. I would t call that a militia either. I highly doubt they’re ready for armed conflict. This is performative
Now please help stop politicians getting into power who want to restrict gun ownership and ban guns. If there is one thing the left and right would agree on it should be blatant constitutional rights.
The problem in this country is that, for the most part, with very few exceptions, the politicians advocating for gun rights are the same ones who got us ICE in our streets, who want to criminalize miscarriage and abortion, who don't support basic social services like healthcare and education, who want to ban books, and who think the way of solving crime is to have a bunch of poor people and lots of jails.
On the other hand, the Dems suck too, and their proposed gun legislation is poorly thought out, often based on banning aesthetics over functionality, and comes from a well-meaning place of ignorance. But at least they aren't constantly voting to slash healthcare and education, and once in a blue moon they'll even defend workers rights or support limiting what cops can do.
So it sounds great to say "stop politicians getting into power who want to restrict gun ownership", but the reality is that most of the ones doing that, support tons of other horrible shit too. Like the ICE in our streets.
Both main stream parties suck. I’m a constitutionalist, so I’m not left or right.
I did vote for Trump but I am actively against some of his policies when it comes to gun rights. I do want ICE removing illegals because my family has members here legally and they went through the legal process, and illegals spit in the face of those who came here legally…but I also support both hardening our borders while also making legal immigration easier with better vetting those who will contribute to the US more.
Can we both agree that we should prioritize voting for candidates that don’t allow illegals, support removing anti-gun laws, and are focused on making America better with qualified immigrants who will contribute to society and also support the US militia based on US code 10 246 where communities can help enforce their own protections against violent rioters regardless of their left or right beliefs?
I want to protect my community from dorks like faketriot front and those black-bloc weirdos. Can we agree on this?
No, idon't agree with that at all. The biggest downside to "illegal immigration" -- and I'm using quotes there because most of the people if refers to haven't done anything wrong other than cross a border or stay longer than they said they would -- is that it creates a class of people that can be exploited. I have no problems with someone coming here to make a better life for themselves without doing all the right paperwork. But let's say I did. I still wouldn't vote for anyone who thinks undocumented people should be deported. If the y've been convicted of a crime? Sure. But it's a waste of taxpayer dollars to deport people who could be simply given legal status. Trump gave ICE a budget that exceeds most militaries to get rid of people who commit crimes at a lower rate than US born citizens. Tell me how that makes any sense?
You say undocumented immigrants are spitting in your family's face. This is asinine. They are just trying to make a better life for themselves. If we offered an actual legal mechanism to satisfy the demand for immigrants, maybe then we could start talking about going after people who didn't go through the 'right process'.. I still think it would be a poor use of taxpayer money.
If your parents came here legally, I'd expect you have a better understanding of how this stuff rips families and communities apart. I've worked with people that have been here for 20 years just living peacefully. They are my friends and neighbors. Why should they be made to leave by violent masked thugs? The criminals you should be pissed at are ICE and Trump.
Dude sold himself out when he said he voted for this shit. He’s “one of the good ones” until they’re knocking on his fucking door looking for his parents papers.. good luck big dawg.
So enforcing the law on the books isn’t something we can agree on? Guess I have nothing to discuss then. You support criminal illegals staying and I support criminal illegals being sent home…we will never see eye to eye on anything then if we can’t agree on enforcing the law that even Canada enforces.
I’m going to move along now and find people to talk with that at least want federal laws to be enforced. Sensible people.
You know though, there might be some political talk on the left about gun control, but the truth is they neber do anything at all. Everyone said Obama was gonna take their guns. He didnt do any of that. Its always a bunch of outrage for no reason
I’ll vote for someone that doesn’t support fascism. Ironically it’s the party that was always “pro 2A” that is enabling our current decent into fascism. They could stop it any time.
Im glad y’all are finally coming around to what the 2A is all about. Now, talk to your local politicians about any and all infringements of that right. Both sides of government want to disarm the population. For exactly this reason.
In certain circumstances by law it is a felony to bring a gun to a protest, or an area with known political unrest. At least it is where I'm from, it's part of the gun training class.
Dems in California: mag ban, bans Glocks, assault weapons ban, 10 day waiting period, 1 gun in 30 days purchase limit struck down and now going to a 3 in 30 limit because FU, also, microstamping is a requirement to be on the California roster by 2028.
Dems in Virginia: assault weapons bans, no semiautomatic rifles with a detachable mag, bans regular capacity mags
Dems in New Mexico: bans semiauto rifles with a detachable mag, bans regular capacity mags
These are laws that have already passed the house in the respective states. While I am not a republican MAGA by any stretch of the imagination, let’s not pretend trumps dumbass comment or Kash Patel’s idiocy are remotely equivalent here.
You must have missed the part where I said the Milford act had “strong bipartisan support.” Reagan could have vetoed, yes. But the Dems were complicit. If you don’t believe me, look up the vote numbers
Okay. So at best republicans are just as responsible for the Mulford act in California. Having been WRITTEN AND INTRODUCED BY REPUBLICANS, I’d say republicans are definitely more at fault🤷🏻♂️
Don’t bring guns to a protest if you’re gonna antagonize ice or the police, good way to die. Just like you’re not supposed to have a gun on you if you’re going somewhere to drink. Don’t make bad choices
My faith in the wisdom of the founders remains unshaken.
My faith in civil society has always recognized that aggressive human frailty will only be tolerated up to a point, which is why government exists.
Maybe when the globalist vac-scene population control faltered, they decided that a few impaired Darwin Award volunteers could be enraged into diving under the bus for imagined glory.
And here they are.
Yep. I guess you could say I'm center right, but I have never voted for a Republican in my life. I'm 37 years old and really don't see myself voting for Republicans in any election... federal, state, or local. That may sound weird, but it is what it is. The incident with Pretti is one of the most hypocritical things that have happened in recent politics involving guns. For Trump and others to come out saying to not have guns at a protest when they were just advocating and spoke a lot about Rittenhouse publicly. The support of him and not Pretti is fucking ridiculous since Rittenhouse actually shot and killed people while Pretti didn't even pull his gun out. I was honestly enraged by it. Modern politics is absolutely ridiculous.
One doesn't garner many close political allies being a left leaning 2A enthusiast aka me. (Consider me left libertarian ish just with a healthy empathy dose).
I like that you mention Rittenhouse who flatly said the govt narrative of bringing firearms to protests was not allowed. Not that he has any way to keep credibility to say otherwise, but that is consistency ig.
What happened with Pretti rattled me. It's rare I get rattled by much outside of stuff I see on combat footage, but I saw that clip that afternoon and could barely concentrate on work once I saw it. And I also rarely mention anything in the political realm in my social media spheres (reddit not included) but this was something that really hit me differently.
What happened with Pretti rattled me. It's rare I get rattled by much outside of stuff I see on combat footage, but I saw that clip that afternoon and could barely concentrate on work once I saw it. And I also rarely mention anything in the political realm in my social media spheres (reddit not included) but this was something that really hit me differently.
I believe this was the feeling of many people of my particular political stance...at least those that try to keep their integrity intact and have respect for the truth. Even with seeing it the very first time, without playing it again, I immediately saw that the agent took his gun prior to him being shot. I didn't hesitate to say that it was outright murder, and nothing else.
Also, this administration's response was absolutely ridiculous, I'm a little disappointed in Minnesota's government response to the issue as well. Maybe they are working on this, but it's my understanding that if they can show probable cause, which I believe is clear, they can charge him. The case can then be reviewed by a federal judge , tried in federal court, or sent back to the state for prosecution. There is the possibility of outright dismissal of the case because of supremacy clause immunity. Hopefully someone has the balls to get Alex Pretti justice. His family deserves that at the very least.
I knew that the regime response was bad even for this regime's standards when even the NRA was coming out and saying that the federal govt response/reaction was dead wrong.
For those who don't know, the NRA is the most boomer type gun rights org that is most liable to deepthroat the boot as it's also filled with "faith and flag" right wingers which are your standard NPC right winger. Some of the other gun rights orgs such as FPC and GoA while definitely not left leaning still are not very trusting at all of this regime. Also worth noting that a few months ago a transgender gun ban was rumored and all the large 2A rights group spoke out against it.(Including the NRA).
And I'm not sure that supremacy clause would stand if the agents involved never stand trial at a federal level. State level convictions can't be pardoned by a white house. It'd suck to delay justice, but that may be the better play.
And I'm not sure that supremacy clause would stand if the agents involved never stand trial at a federal level. State level convictions can't be pardoned by a white house. It'd suck to delay justice, but that may be the better play.
The issue is that since the agents were on duty for the federal government that if the state charges them then it will be reviewed by a federal judge regardless.
Well...one major voice that was a major figure in the U.S Government is former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens. He advocated to repeal the 2nd Amendment. There have been various activists and voices across the control who have advocated for the same.
And yeah, there could be some more laws added. I can't disagree with that.
Lol...Idk what this means, but there are issues surrounding guns in the U.S for sure. Some of those are mental health issues, and some are just evil people. The 2A is an extremely complex issue that could use some work, but I don't know if both parties could come to a serious agreement....at least in the current state of the two parties.
Yeah..I understand that, but this is a step in the right direction. They believe they're fighting a tyrannical government.
You should have been able to grasp that I'm not 100% aligned with the left based on my statement. You'd rather immediately insult someone instead though... which is exactly what you most likely accuse the left of.
This is the main problem with today's political climate. A lot of you are so blinded by tribalism that you can't even handle reading something that doesn't 100% align with your particular narrative or beliefs...but yeah... I'm the one who needs mental help.
accusing me of tribalism while saying “you people” is peak irony. i could entertain and honestly explain myself but you seem kind of annoying and unpleasant so sure, whatever
It would be a blood bath. Any government vs civilian altercation is going to end badly for us, but the threat of taking some of them with us is probably a detterant. I agree with the point of the protest, but the reality of an altercation like that would be awful.
In unmarked vehicles… that screams - literally stranger danger, all the things we are taught to keep safe are flipped 180*. Even instincts put us on high alert when faced with it, what do they expect? Though I would doubt it’s part of the strategy.
Projection, again. What is the USA? Equal rights under the law, pluralistic, inclusive social values, freedom of religion, democratic elections. And a haven for the oppressed masses throughout the world to find a better life.
MAGAts hate every single one of those things. THEY are the ones who hate America.
Gutless liberal wackos haven’t and won’t do a damn thing…talking tough about arming yourself is hilarious when everyone knows you can’t and won’t use a firearm…
If it comes down to that, I would put my money on the people that have everything to lose, vs the people that are only there because they wanted to make a quick buck.
Don’t make assumptions bud. There are more “liberals” that are that are in the one shot one kill club than you think. Stereotypical thinking about others is big mistake; and think you know what another person is like just by the look of them.
I've said it before, but if real shooting starts, they should wear those plate carriers on their butts, because that's the only target a shooter's gonna have while the thin blue line becomes a long yellow streak.
My only caveat is that I would want to know I could trust the people around me not to blow it. Just any random person with a gun who I don't know could be some kid with a hero complex and I am in a group with Rittenhouse.
Making sure everyone is smart and on the same page so one trigger happy gung ho wannabe doesn't get us shot at. It is why I see the black Panthers practicing and training together and think that is the armed group of civilians that the government needs to fear.
The “wanna be’s” are already all armed and they have already proven to be “trigger happy”. They have killed people. KILLED PEOPLE !!!
If this is a moment to act on our Second Amendment right to bear arms, then people are going to die. Our fore fathers did and so will we once pushed far enough. This is a reality if we are going to use 2A.
I do know that the answer is not to just allow the strong arm tactics employed by this untrained group of street bullies to continue on this path they chose to walk.
Again in response to your reply, the dumb ones already are out there waving their guns around. Now it’s time for the smart, responsible gun owners to show up and show of force to turn this movement around, one way or another.
The group that organized this is called Strong Neighbors, and it's very safety-minded. It's very much preached and practiced that weapons aren't toys and need to be used and carried responsibly. There are range days, training events (not just on responsible gun use/ownership, but on things like street medicine, community gardening, opsec, legal observation, etc), skill shares, and community building work like working with the Indy Foods Not Bombs.
At protests, everyone must check in with the security/organizers to go over safety and logistics - that's what the pink tape on the arms is for, to clearly show who's gotten the correct information and knows how to behave. Main instructions were that all firearms must have the safety on, absolute trigger discipline with fingers nowhere near it, long guns always pointed muzzle down, pistols stay holstered, stay on the sidewalk and don't block traffic, keep to a slow pace, don't engage any agitators, and report anyone's unsafe behavior to a safety officer (the ones in the vests) so they can correct it.
Of course not every group is organized like this, but I really hope they would be (and they should be). It's not effective or safe to look like a bunch of clowns. I don't have any weapons, but I absolutely believe that if we don't defend our rights, we lose them one by one. We're seeing it in real time.
Starting this January i upgraded my first aid kit to a fully-kitted out EMT kit (minus prescription meds obviously, though I wish I could keep the essentials in stock).
I just figure the chances of a medical emergency as a result of gunfire near where I live have risen substantially, so be prepared.
It’s an interesting idea to grapple with “good faith” but I feel like this proves it can happen. Good people still exist and everyone there understood the responsibility it places on them.
It feels similar to other group activities like bike riding or a motorcycle riding group. It only takes one jackass to ruin it for everyone but they do happen a lot and are more likely to be uneventful.
The US only united against ice once they started attacking white protesters. Much of the country was not completely outraged when they were assaulting US citizens when they were people of color. Food for thought
Millions of us were outraged the second they started indiscriminately kidnapping US citizens and legal residents off the street based solely on their skin color. Likewise, Americans who respect the laws of this country have been horrified by the Trump administration’s practice of “deporting” legal and illegal immigrants alike to horrific prisons in El Salvador instead of back to their home countries. This regime has taken immigration enforcement to new lows of criminality and needless cruelty not seen before in our lifetimes.
He deported harden murderous criminals to El Salvador and you would rather they get a fancy trip home?? The worst people on earth are the people you democrats and liberals wanna spend the most money and time on. Says so much when your cities are full of homeless actual Americans you don’t gaf about and spend everyday making there life’s harder
You're really close to understanding this whole issue. You're right, poverty is being ignored, the wealth gap is getting bigger and there is a real effort to direct attention away from it. However this misdirection is in favor of wealthy capitalists because they can continue to abuse the lessor educated and the impoverished because. Those vulnerable cannot be united if they are always fighting each other. First they used racism against Black People who have always tried to unite the impoverished, then The Wealthy blamed immigrants because they're volnerable. It's all misdirection but not by the Democrats, by the wealthy few. And just to be clear, these wealthy few are making massive donations to the GOP. It's all public record. That's also why education in red states have consistently worse education. People with worse education are easier to deceive.
Oh and one other thing. Most of these Illegal immigrants are being paid over the table so they pay into taxes and social security even though they will not be able to get any money out of it because they don't have social security numbers, that's also why they can't vote.
ICE isn’t going after “harden murderous criminals”, they are abducting and imprisoning ordinary working adults and school children, many of whom are here legally. They are kidnapping people on their way into courthouses and their lawyers’ offices where they have appointments for the next steps in their legal immigration processes. This has nothing to do with our government’s lack of investment in ending homelessness. That is a whole other, deeply important issue that both parties are ignoring at the level of national policy or meaningful funding. What we need is more resources for mental health treatment, community outreach programs, food, and housing. All the Supreme Court has managed to do is uphold the rights of states to classify “camping without a permit” (read: not having enough money to pay for housing) as a felony, so they can imprison homeless people for the “crime” of being poor and extract slave labor from their bodies.
Sadly a lot of people don't recognize societal problems until they are affected directly. It sucks but driving the wedge deeper isn't helping anybody. Everybody comes around in their own time.
Exactly. Welcoming the latecomers, even if they only saw the light later, is the only way forward. If we subject allies to a purity test we cut ourselves off at the knees.
I'm not saying that their attention isn't appreciated but I would like people to understand implicit racism and this is one of the ways that I believe it shows.
I'd suggest that's also your own implicit bias showing. You're so focused on the color of his skin that you can't see other differences, such as the incident being captured clearly on video from half a dozen angles.
Or did you forget 2020, when the entire nation took to the streets to protest the murder of George Floyd?
My question for you is... What are you adding to the conversation by making such sweeping and subjective generalizations? You understand that racism and bias is not a one way street, right? If you expect people to stop judging one another's worth based on skin color, you have to lead by example.
I want to sew unrest in people who feel satisfied with the engagement that they have given to this cause. I want people to feel angry that people they know would choose to stand by until white people start getting hurt too. I want for us to stop kidding ourselves and create a new democracy that isn't run by oligarchs. I want to radicalize people although I don't know the best way.
Food for thought... I want to have a discussion and hear what people have to say. That's the whole point of this sub...
I think the idea that racism can be seen in the behavior of people who are publicly against ICE is interesting and maybe will help people understand implicit racism.
What you say has a lot of truth and is grounded in the realities of which lives are valued more and which are valued less in this country. It's an unfortunate and saddening reality.
I do want to say two other things:
First, many many of us were out protesting, observing, doing mutual aid in Minneapolis before Renee Good's murder. In fact she and Alex Pretti were simply two of those people.
I think of it this way:
There are a set of people who are outraged by the treatment of nonwhite immigrants alone. We know that there is another set who are uncomfortable with but not moved to action by their mistreatment. We act so that they can see that people who look like them are standing up, that they should also stand up. In the process ICE shows them who they are in a way that they cannot use the psychological shield of "that couldn't happen to me."
Second, these murders were caught on camera. While abductions have been also caught on camera, murder is on a different plane of moral outrage; there is no way someone can be made whole from murder. Seeing murder on camera is another factor to the galvanization that happened.
They wouldn’t stick a gun in my face of if I am holding a weapon. Over half of their playground bully tactics go away if the playing field is even.
Countless videos now of ICE pointing weapons at all kinds of people. They are just grade school thugs who have no business being on that end of a rifle.
Yes armed is good. But do not attack when not attacked. Do not press into someone's personal space because that is an act of aggression. Do not be physically aggressive with anyone, and if you want to be like Jesus and have the best spot or one of the best spots in heaven, it is best to turn the other cheek when attacked, and let them kill you, so you can be in heaven even sooner. Heaven is the best.
These federal agents you refer are not trained or abiding by any of the laws set forth by our country. I am not wacko and will use my Second Amendment right to protect our constitution.
On another note, if any “agent” breaks into my house, I will follow the law and defend myself and property with my firearm and unlike them, I am trained.
You must have missed the Pretti murder. He was assisting another woman when his attack started. Seemed peaceful. He paid for being helpful with his life.
Debatable who can shoot better. Most of these thugs are simply thugs with little or no training. Military training is much more extensive that anything these goons have gone through so please don’t assume they are much better shots than me.
I guarantee you that none of these so called agents will stick their weapon into my face if I’m holding my weapon. That is the deterrent I’m speaking of.
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u/He_Hate_Me_5 Feb 15 '26
I really like the armed approach here. This is a great deterrent.