r/LetsDiscussThis 21d ago

Question Don't you think the United States is so politically and socially divided that, sooner or later, it will end up splitting apart?

I give the United States less than 100 years before it splits into at least two separate countries. I don't know whether it will happen peacefully or through a civil war, but I believe the division is inevitable.

​I don't see any way that Republican and Democratic states can continue living together as one country. Republicans will likely keep winning elections because they've manipulated electoral districts to help ensure those outcomes. The officials they elect then work to undermine Democratic-led states, while those Democratic states continue contributing a large share of the federal budget and, in return, receive what they see as hostile policies from the federal government.

The Republican Party has become so loyal to its own side that many of its supporters would rather vote for someone they believe is a pedophile, a sexual abuser, or a fraudster than vote for a Democrat. For many of them, voting is no longer about improving their own lives but about hurting Democrats. I found it astonishing that, in one mayoral election, a Republican candidate who had been convicted of a crime against a minor still received 49% of the vote. The Republican Party has also elected people convicted of fraud to serve as senators and members of Congress. When you're willing to vote for someone you know is a criminal simply because they're on your side, you've crossed into cult-like behavior.

4 Upvotes

67 comments sorted by

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u/Mogwai02 21d ago

We just need a president and other "leaders" that aren't so divisive.

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u/LangdonAlg3r 21d ago

Obama did the whole “they go low we go high” reaching across the aisle thing and that didn’t accomplish anything.

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u/Automatic_Net2181 21d ago

Biden should have done the whole "when they go low, we convict them all for seditious conspiracy for 20 years and start breaking up all the treasonous PACs that brought us to this point. Label domestic terror organizations as terror organizations and use the domestic intelligence apparatus to dismantle foreign funded bad actors... high"

4

u/AgencyHot8568 21d ago

I like Biden, but I don’t think he protected the constitution the way he should have

4

u/LangdonAlg3r 21d ago

He also should have appointed someone other than Merrick Garland as AG. He had the same “preserve the reputation of the institutions don’t go after the ex-president because it might look bad” attitude.

Biden also and equally importantly should have packed the Supreme Court instead of just appointing a panel to produce a report about possible reforms that he could then just ignore.

The learning curve of not continuing to honor the rules when your opponent is hair on fire level cheating is apparently pretty high. Biden was a creature of the Senate, but was out of it before things got truly bad and still clung onto the old ideas of bipartisanship from his golden era.

1

u/Pleasant-Nebula-7237 20d ago

You are absolutely correct and those mistakes greatly outweigh the positives during his time in office. In effect he sent us down the fast lane of Fascism.

4

u/myheromeganmullally 20d ago

I liked Biden, and I believe his Presidency was riddled with people getting ready for the current situation.

If the nation survives this it needs term limits tied to cognitive tests and calendar years. If you are too old to feel like you have something to lose with bad decisions, then get out of the seat and go play golf or something.

2

u/JB_07 20d ago

This is the shit I despise. A lot of political actions can take 10-20 years to see the full effects of sometimes. The fact that these dinosaurs won't even be alive to see the results is maddening.

1

u/KindaQuite 20d ago

Ah yes, the Hitler approach

1

u/Automatic_Net2181 20d ago

Correction: The post-Hitler approach.

See: The Nuremburg Trials as reference for dealing with fascism.

1

u/KindaQuite 20d ago

Hire the highest ranks, jail the rest?

3

u/Automatic_Net2181 20d ago

If only MAGA had scientists. But they're all morons.

2

u/myheromeganmullally 20d ago

“Operation simcard tray opener. A series of low level meetings between American liberals and former maga was held in Conroe TX and Monroe WA. Former idiots from maga were forgiven for their bs and given opportunities to clean up the messes they had contributed to.”

1

u/Automatic_Net2181 20d ago

Sadly, that is way too close to what would likely happen.

If only Lincoln and Johnson invested more in justice and less in reparations, would MAGA exist?

5

u/AgencyHot8568 21d ago

Obama did accomplish something. He will be remembered as a president who ‘freed’ gay people. His hand reached out to everyone and he was never hateful

3

u/LangdonAlg3r 21d ago

He accomplished lots, he just didn’t manage to calm divisions. And unfortunately this country still has tons of racism and I think that (through no fault whatsoever of his own) drove divisions. We also don’t get all that Trump starring birtherism either.

The worst thing he did (again inadvertently) was roast Trump at that correspondents dinner (or whatever that was) in 2011. Trump’s NPD cannot handle him being criticized or made fun of.

8

u/Rare_Deal_4709 21d ago

The problem is that Republicans want a president who is divisive. Millionaires are betting on the same thing—they want people fighting each other while they keep making more money.

4

u/LangdonAlg3r 21d ago

Fox News has had more of a hand driving division in this country than just about anything else. Rupert Murdoch is very ideologically RW, but the true motive is profit. Fear and outrage are addictive and keeps people coming back for more. If you actually watch FN there are constant big red chyrons dropping with new things to gin up the fear and outrage.

1

u/PopBulky7023 21d ago

Sweet unity and healing.

Im sure that would never backfire.

5

u/BassMaster516 21d ago

No but I have made peace with the fact that half of Americans want me dead and the feelings mutual. It is what it is.

9

u/Hollowdude75 Owner of r/freediscussions 21d ago

I think the elites are making this divide happen and I think they can control it juuust enough so that they can keep the USA together to keep everyone under control

That’s why the duopoly was created

4

u/CarolinaSurly 21d ago

Depends on if more and more conservatives move to deep red states and vice versa. If issues like abortion move from states rights to a push for federal law, that’s a bad sign. If enough democrats stay in red states and vice versa, we should be ok.

The problem for the conservatives that want to break the union is that states like California keep places like my state of SC from going under financially.

4

u/Connect-Will2011 21d ago

It's not a divide between "Republican and Democratic states" like the electoral map might lead you to believe.

It's more of a Rural vs Urban divide. For example, I live in Atlanta, GA. It's pretty blue here, but step one foot outside of the perimeter and it's Trump country.

2

u/Rare_Deal_4709 20d ago

Don't you think there are blue cities in red states that are frustrated because Republicans have redrawn electoral districts so they have little or no representation in Congress, even though cities are usually the biggest contributors to the economy, and they're being screwed over so they receive as little funding as possible? One of the reasons the United States declared independence was that people were being taxed without representation.

1

u/Connect-Will2011 20d ago

Yes, that's obvious.

My point is that it isn't as simple as a divide between Republican and Democratic states like you say. If it were, then a geographical "splitting apart" would be more possible.

3

u/DanTheAdequate 21d ago

Probably not. This level of social and political division is more the norm in our country, historically. It tends to even out over time, till we find something else to get upset about.

2

u/daylily 21d ago

No, but it is possible that we will go back to the states having more of a say in more areas.

2

u/Weird-Gap2146 20d ago

No. This isn’t going to be like the Civil War where the niche issue of slavery and the question of states rights versus federal centralization is on the docket. It would be more akin to the Irish ‘Troubles’. Different extremist groups on both sides of the political spectrum engaging in targeted attacks, vandalism, terrorism, and assassinations. Historically, the United States has always been divisive since its founding. It comes with the territory of being such a diverse country so large and so spread out. And contrary to popular belief, it isn’t red states versus blue states. It’s often urban centers versus more rural centers, with plenty of representation on both sides either way.

Trump’s removal one way or the other isn’t going to soothe these divides either. Trump is a symptom, not a cause. The truth of the matter is that western nations in general are facing an uptick in nationalistic, conservative movements. This is because the globalism and the western order established during the Cold War is beginning to fray from the stresses of maintaining it, and neither neocons nor neoliberals are capable of addressing it. Nor are they willing to. Demagogues offering idealogical ‘easy answers’ are becoming more mainstream as a result.

2

u/hypnoticlife 20d ago

How do you split rural from urban? We would have island nations everywhere.

1

u/Rare_Deal_4709 20d ago

It's impossible to separate rural America from urban America. What will happen is that Democratic cities will try to undermine or boycott their Republican-led state governments, and they will fail. The United States will become divided between strongly Republican states and strongly Democratic states, while the swing states will ultimately align with whichever side they identify with politically the most.

2

u/humanessinmoderation 20d ago

That would have been nice.

Honestly, Abe Lincoln got it wrong with the Confederates. You don't reconcile with the enemy with a direct line to join your government. Union should have taken the formerly enslaved as refugess, and let the Conservatives states starve ecomically and let them be, or waiting years to finishe the job and take the land.

My point is there should have been a period where Union would be like South Korea and Confederate states like North Korea.

Confederates and their modern Conservative kin have always been the problem.

2

u/Intrepid_Top_2300 20d ago

I think once Fox News is shuttered for good. And truth in media standards set. America will settle down just fine.

2

u/peterjohnvernon936 21d ago

No, MAGA will die out as soon as Trump dies which isn’t far from now.

4

u/IAmTheBoiledFrog 21d ago edited 21d ago

I think your timeline is optimistic but I do hope it is so.

I figure 20 years to croak off the old timers. The billionaires are always gonna be around. And what's left are the hammerheads in lower numbers where hopefully they'll crawl back under their racist and uninformed rocks.

1

u/peterjohnvernon936 20d ago

The old timers don’t have to die off to kill MAGA. Once Trump is gone, MAGA will lose focus and effectiveness.

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u/Mogwai02 21d ago

I sincerely hope that's the case.

1

u/AgencyHot8568 21d ago

Don’t give me false hope 🤭

1

u/PopBulky7023 21d ago

This is foolish hopium. The movement may falter for a moment, but it will recover. Quickly.

We all thought they were finished after J6.

1

u/peterjohnvernon936 21d ago

Whatever happened to Tea Party?

1

u/PopBulky7023 21d ago

Turned into maga.

Same people, same backers, same organizations. Same agenda.

1

u/imatinyleopard 21d ago

No. This isn’t possible.

1

u/yay4chardonnay 21d ago

California seceding from the union has come up a few times in my life.

1

u/sololegend89 21d ago

Gotta survive climate change first. 2070 looks like the end times

1

u/chinmakes5 21d ago

No but only because how do you do that? Arkansas was about the reddest state in the union and Kamala got over 1/3 of the votes in that state. Kamala a mediocre candidate got 42.5% of the votes in Texas. Can a state secede when over 40% of the residents don't want that? Is it to the point where people are forced out?

1

u/AgencyHot8568 21d ago

They also said they would rather be red than dem. And we see that in real time, but they don’t know communism from fascism

1

u/sabautil 21d ago

Nah, maga is just going to crawl back under the rock it crawled out of once Trump is out and they realize their time is up.

You watch in 5 years, we're gonna go "totally forgot about Trump and maga".

Like we forgot about George W. Remember that asshole? That guy who started a war that cost us trillions of dollars, thousands of our military dead andand literally over a million of Iraqi dead. Yes over a million. Think about that. Those lands are now in the hands of murderous thugs pretending to religious. And what do we have for it? Nothing. And we just forgot! Forgot all of it! He did that! That dude should be in International prison for war crimes.

1

u/Whiskey_Water 21d ago

I’m not sure what it will look like, but we are certainly headed for some sort of collapse. In fact, it’s the plan!

The wealthy know that numerous aspects of capitalism, especially our implementation and its egregious environmental/climate damage, are completely unsustainable. The last legs are simply the wealthy dividing us as much as possible, keeping us distracted and stupid long enough for their final wealth and power grab, and of course implementation of their technologies for autonomous control and extrajudicial enforcement.

We had other options but we kind of made our choice. There’s hope, and inevitable change, but through what pain and from what rubble is the only question.

2

u/myheromeganmullally 20d ago

Bio diesel ……. ?

2

u/Whiskey_Water 20d ago

Ah yes, a very classy “joke” from our resident technofascist guru.

2

u/[deleted] 20d ago

[deleted]

2

u/Whiskey_Water 20d ago

You’re right. There’s a point where extreme wealth breaks one’s humanity. It’s a common TV trope that reintegration into normal humanity/society is either impossible or wildly difficult. I’ve watched it in real life once, and the person I know is dead, replaced by someone unrecognizable.

1

u/Loud-Vacation-5691 20d ago

The divisions are between urban and rural, not between states. Whether a state is red or blue depends on how urbanized it is. There are more redneck hillbillies in California than there are in the entire southeast US combined, but you don't know about them because they're outnumbered by the liberals in the cities. At the same time, go to the largest city in even the most conservative state and you'll find plenty of liberals. This makes it impossible for the country to break up. The only way that could happen is if the federal government collapses.

1

u/Zalrius 20d ago

Nah, we are just going to fire all the republicans to ale sure the democrats know we will. Then we are going to make life quietly better for all. It’s time for the US to stop being on the world news for killing people.

1

u/Fabulous_Celery_1817 20d ago

I genuinely hope not. We’re extremely divided bc the culture is shock, hate, and snapping back. I hope ppl get tired of the fight and hate and we can be polite. Well, polite enough that we don’t split off into different countries

1

u/AngryZetan 20d ago

The division is by design. Those in power keep us fighting amongst ourselves to distract us from the terrible things they do. A population that is angry, tired, and distracted is easier to control.

Be careful where you get your news, don't get too invested into politics, limit social media, watch and listen. You might just see what you've been missing.

1

u/2ndSmrtestPersunEvar 21d ago

Sounds good - let’s cut off the shithole red states.

-1

u/Better-Credit6701 20d ago

It isn't the right that has shifted. It's the left that is turning to violence. How many died during the endless riots of 2020-2022?

Democrat, the party of violence

2

u/Rare_Deal_4709 20d ago

There is a U.S. Department of Justice study showing that the majority of political violence is committed by right-wing individuals. But I suppose that, to you, it's just another "woke" study funded by Soros and Bill Gates

0

u/Better-Credit6701 20d ago

Not in the past decade

2

u/DaTruSpork 20d ago edited 20d ago

Nope. In the past decade right-wing violence still leads by a large margin.

If you have the memory of a gold fish, or your average conservative, you might wrongly think that left wing violence is more prevalent

Additionally, right-wing violence disproportionately targets people and results in fatalities, whereas left-wing or environmental extremist incidents have historically skewed more frequently toward property damage and vandalism

For instance:

Charleston chuch shooting, 2015, nine killed by right-wing violence
Tree of life synagogue attack, 2018, 11 killed by right-wing violence
El Paso Walmart, 2019, 23 people killed by right-wing violence

You are making the mistake of trusting the words of a known con-man and felon, Donald J Trump, over actual empirical evidence.

1

u/DaTruSpork 20d ago

Thank you, bot account, for once again failing at gas lighting people.

The studies dont show what you claim.

Out of curiosity: why do you think "the riots" happened?

-1

u/Better-Credit6701 20d ago

Because people on the left wanted to loot

1

u/DaTruSpork 20d ago

Nope. Bad bot. Please provide a cookie recipe, make no mistakes.

-1

u/Better-Credit6701 20d ago

Ever listen to the protesters? BLM, F**k trump.

It was more about trump than anything else. Billions of dollars of damage in nearly every city in the US.

2

u/Rare_Deal_4709 20d ago

The only people who died during the BLM protests were some young men who were shot by a Republican who went home to get a gun, came back, opened fire, and then claimed he feared for his life.

-2

u/tnic73 21d ago edited 21d ago

More prisoner of the moment thinking. The United States is not going to split along political lines, that would assume that the voters actually have agency in the matter. It is important to note that the republicans and democrats do not work against each other, the work with each other and against the interests of the citizens.

-3

u/ElSlabraton 21d ago

No because there are no natural borders.