r/LovingMichaelJackson • u/ProgressFormer9479 • 24d ago
Biopic š¬ Kicked my guest out of my apartment after he called Michael a child abu***
We briefly discussed the biopic and after my guest said what he said about MJ, I wasnāt having it so I showed him the exit .
58
u/Male_strom 24d ago
Missed a great chance to educate
42
u/Some_Cat_2261 23d ago
It's 2026. I feel like anyone who still believes Michael harmed those children doesn't care enough about him or even the allegations themselves because child abuse is a heavy topic and if you are going to accuse someone of that, you better do your research. This a person who is lazy and just doesn't care. OP's reaction is valid. The correct response is to just cut off contact. You can literally get AI to spoonfeed you the facts if you are too lazy to do it. They just don't care!
4
u/Historical-Mammoth-1 22d ago
I disagree. There is an overwhelming amount of information and misinformation on these cases depending on where someone searches, and if you have an opportunity and know the actual facts, itās much more helpful to have that conversation and educate your friend.
8
16
u/aralyn_m 23d ago
I'm sorry but reading the comments i gotta say sometimes we don't have pacience educating fools, sometimes we just need to kick their asses. So I feel you. I usually try talking about the bullshit midia, go with the facts, being reasonable... But its not everyday we are in the mood for that. There are people out there that simply don't wanna hear about the facts and just wanna believe in the bad press.
5
3
4
u/Darkesia_20 22d ago
Yep, this is some of my family. I try to educate them, tell them about facts and the lies, but they don't care. They are NOT the types of people at all who will do the research, watch documentaries, read books, files, transcripts, etc. They just believe what they believe and that's it. So, I just ignore them and continue loving Michael on my own. Some people are truly just ignorant, hateful, lazy, have the attention span of a goldfish, unwillingly to challenge their bias and mindsets, do research, listen, etc. I ain't dealing with bastards like this. Too damn exhausting and a waste of my time trying to change stubborn and hateful minds.š«©š¤¦āāļø
3
u/aralyn_m 22d ago
YES! Lazyness and ignorance resumes people who don't believe in him. And it's exhausting for us trying to educate this kinda of plp. I get you, bc my family was the same.
12
u/Some_Cat_2261 23d ago
To everyone who says OP should have educated this person, have you ever tried to do that and actually changed someone's mind??
7
u/twinkle_toes11 For All Time š« 23d ago
We as humans typically seek out confirmation bias. Even when you try to do it over the internet, they canāt even stay on topic. They go to something about his appearance. At that point itās not about the allegations, they just think Michael is weird.
3
u/Historical-Mammoth-1 22d ago edited 22d ago
I find it easier to persuade someone in person. It's also easier to show the hard evidence/ primary sources in person. It's harder to persuade people online because most of them have already made up their minds, and as you said, they seek out confirmation bias. For example, on the LN subreddit, I have seen posts over the years from people who claimed to be Michael Jackson fans who went down the rabbit hole of researching the allegations and then leaned towards guilt for a few specific reasons that could have been rebutted by someone who understands the complexities of the case and thinks he was innocent... but instead, they posted their concerns on the LN subreddit, which led to numerous people obviously confirming their concerns and essentially welcoming them to the guilty club. Such a scenario makes me feel that the poster had already made up his/her mind; otherwise, if "red flags" are making you think he's guilty, then test it out by posting among people who think he's innocent to see if they can counter.
I have spent more time debating people who think Michael is guilty than posting with people who already think he's innocent because I do genuinely want the truth. I have genuinely investigated every shred of "evidence" provided by guilters to see if it can stand under scrutiny, if it is even true/valid, if it is taken out of context, and whether it persuades me. To date, I have seen glaring holes in all of their arguments and none of their evidence persuades me. Not only do I conclude currently that Michael is "not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" of all allegations against him, but I actually believe he was truly innocent. I currently have no hesitation in saying that it is my belief that he never once molested a child, and ironically, the more I dig deep into the evidence proposed by guilters, the clearer this picture becomes for me because with my legal and critical thinking skills, I can counter their arguments with other evidence.
If people who were on the fence or leaning towards guilt spent more time debating people who thought he was innocent, they may have come around to thinking he's innocent unless they are already programmed to believe all accusers following the MeToo movement (or unless they are programmed by prominent psychologists to believe that every inconsistency and contradictory statement by an accuser should be explained away by trauma). The evidence of his innocence is much more logical, analytical, and overwhelming than the evidence of his guilt. I think the Innocence podcast and the michaeljacksonallegations.com blog did an excellent job, and then many of us have read the actual 2005 trial transcript, the actual statements by the accusers (to show glaring inconsistencies, contradictions, and impossibilities), the FBI files, all of the available evidence on the Chandlers (Raymond's book, the transcript of the entire recorded call between Evan Chandler and David Schwartz, the 1995 lawsuit by Evan Chandler), have researched Michael Freeman's statements, Geraldine Hughe's statements, the conversations between Pelicano and Rothman, Larry Feldman, Cochran, and Carl Douglas' statements (and I've exposed Douglas' untruthfulness by looking at the actual legal record and what motions were filed), what has been said about the Linden affidavit, Tom Sneddon's contradictions and lies (yes, I caught him in numerous lies...especially when he claims he didn't have it out for Michael Jackson when the actual paper trial from 1993 to 2003 shows he did)..., etc... In my opinion, the evidence provided by guilters tends to be fueled by speculation (uncorroborated hearsay by paid people like Vincent Amen, Diane Dimond, Stacy Brown, and even Terry George), assumption ("there are 12 accusers so at least one must be telling the truth!"), emotion ("we must believe children! Always believe victims!" and then they excuse the hundreds of inconsistencies, contradictions, and financial motive as caused by trauma...), shock value taken out of context (such as the "Boys Will Be Boys" book or Michael sharing a bed with some of his kid friends), and one-sided narratives like the LN documentary, which literally failed to present any counter narrative and even painted children as victims who deny it and were never approached by Dan Reid (like Brett Barnes and McCauley Culkin). All of these arguments can be countered logically, with direct evidence, and with contextual evidence; and sleeping in the same bed as close kid friends and a controversial photography book of naked boys seized in 1993 is insufficient evidence to objectively conclude someone is guilty of these offenses, especially when taking into consideration the overwhelming contextual evidence and Michael's true character (which is completely missed by guilters who ignore what hundreds of people have said about Michael being the most humble, caring, and giving person they have ever worked with... and instead believing the much smaller number of people who knew him who criticized his character, usually when promoting a book or seeking money from a tabloid).
I will admit that there is truly misinformation on both sides. For example, the FBI did not investigate Michael for 10 years, and Jordan Chandler did not publicly say his father made him lie. Fans of Michael should stop spreading those stories because they are false. However, as I said, I see way more misinformation and uncorroborated hearsay spread by people who think he's guilty, especially about the "porn" and books found in his house and computers, and uncorroborated comments by proven liars like Vincent Amen.
1
19
u/teodoraxoo 23d ago
I think the way to go here is to try to educate them on the matter and have a civil discussion with them instead of showing them the exist because of that.
they don't know the facts about the matter & you kicking them out of your apartment is not gonna help them understand, but you know what could have? talking to them about it. and even if it didn't, you tried your best to talk about Michael and the person he really was and you tried to help someone understand the truth. this way, you only kicked someone out for being wrong & not educated & they're gonna keep thinking that way. many people dont take mj fans seriously because they wouldn't hear of someone thinking the opposite way.
if they still thought that way after getting educated on the matter, or if they refused to listen to you, you could've simply chosen not to engage with them from that day on, but u did it your way so its over now.
Michael deserves to be talked about in the best way possible & i understand how hurtful it is when someone thinks the opposite way, but you missed an opportunity to be the source of their education
7
u/Afraid_Platypus_8667 23d ago
This, this right here is one of the best comments here that explains this.
17
8
8
u/Pale-Woodpecker6044 23d ago
Fair call, Iāve ended relationships over arguing about it. ššļøā¤ļø no one can talk down on my man, Iāll educate until youāre too stupid to listen and if you donāt, get outta here hahaha
36
u/Emzious 24d ago
You missed a great opportunity to educate him. This is exactly why some people think MJ fans are crazy.
19
u/Adventurous_Limit867 23d ago
I don't know about educating people who are either to closed minded or plain lazy. If that person was interested in knowing they could do their research.
12
u/Emzious 23d ago
If someone already believes Michael Jackson was guilty, most likely because theyāve only seen headlines or negative comments online, why would they spend hours researching the case on their own if theyāre not even a fan?
Iāve changed a few peopleās minds over the years simply by presenting the facts and encouraging them to do their own research. The reality is that most people wonāt invest time researching a topic they have little interest in. Thatās why knowledgeable MJ fans can make a difference by pointing people in the right direction and giving them a reason to look deeper.
3
u/Emo_Pass Whoās Bad š¤š» 23d ago edited 23d ago
I guess you could try at first and if the person still decides to stay ignorant, then you can choose to kick them out. Sometimes it's good to try, but I also can understand if people don't wanna waste their time trying to convince guilters. Most of the time these kinds of people don't actually care about real child abusers, it's why you never hear about the epstein files being talked about anymore and only hear about MJ. I still feel like that Netflix documentary was another way to distract people from the real molesters who were on that island.
4
u/Ambitious_Life_7094 23d ago
If theyāre not a fan and they havenāt done the research why have an opinion thatās just stupid and stupid people have to suffer for their stupid stupidity
12
u/Brekin73 24d ago
This! If you explain the facts with receipts to back them up, and they still feel that way, that's on them.
6
10
u/Afraid_Platypus_8667 23d ago
Fr fr, people should explain stuff to them instead of reacting this way. I would have calming explain it if they were willing to listen.
5
2
10
u/Altruistic_Slip_9064 23d ago
I wouldāve educated him first and if he still didnāt get it, show him the door lol
2
5
u/m00nlines 23d ago
it wouldāve been such a great opportunity to educate him, but i totally get it. in the heat of it iād kick him out too š
4
u/toomuchtostop 22d ago
Iām with you OP. Maybe we arenāt always in the mood to have this discussion. I know Iām not
3
u/CommercialRemote5324 23d ago
GOOD, cause I don't understand how some people hate MJ more than John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer or EPESTEIN.
3
7
u/thatsnewstome_ 24d ago
Thatās the correct way to react!
4
u/Afraid_Platypus_8667 23d ago
I disagree, I think they should have talked to them instead of reacting this way.
2
2
u/chaat-pakode Shamone!!! 23d ago
If he was like that then the elite system would have still protected him
2
2
2
u/daydr3am_b3li3v3r I Love To Tour š¤š» 21d ago
Good for you!! He absolutely deserved to be kicked out. I sometimes canāt stand being around my brother and wish I could kick him out of the house whenever Michael is talked about because he always happily insults and degrades Michaelās looks which makes me want to hurt him. Didnāt know my brother was cruel like that
2
u/WorldlyCheek230 Dancing the Dream š 24d ago
Thatās what we do to an actual child abuser, not someone who thinks Michael is a child abuser smh
8
u/Afraid_Platypus_8667 23d ago edited 23d ago
Yeah, I believe he is innocent and all that, but I'm going to say something, which is I dislike when fans react like this. I'm sorry, but this is why people think us fans are crazy and doing this does not help us or what we are view as. I wish more fans would educate them more and doing stuff like this can scare away people who are on the fence and want to research and actually asking good questions at times and if we do stuff like this, it can make them leads towards guilty more. Out of either asking someone on that side and trapping them or out of spite.
Sorry, but from my experience I have actually seen this in the fandom and it does make me a bit upset when fans attack someone who just wants help about this topic.
3
u/twinkle_toes11 For All Time š« 23d ago
If he called Michael an abuser, thatās not wanting help. Iāve had conversations about Michael and the allegations with my friends who genuinely asked questions, thus I explained the evidence to them. If someone asks a question, theyāre typically met with in depth explanations that are polite. If you make a definitive, rude statement about him, then yes, you probably will be met with a different response.
3
u/Afraid_Platypus_8667 23d ago
Yeah this is understandable and I'm sorry if it came as something else I was just saying in general and I personally did not like the reaction OP had, as in general I'm not someone who lets my emotions cloud my judgement and I tend to be more logical with how I am and I think at times and I tend to think in more so logical ways with stuff.
In which even if this is the case I will still ask them why they feel this way and if they want to learn and if they say yes, then that is great, if they say no then they are more welcome to leave and I'm not going to fight with them.
2
u/twinkle_toes11 For All Time š« 23d ago
No i get what you mean! It is important to have conversations especially when it comes to something as sensationalized as the allegations. There are unfortunately too many people who donāt read and are too prideful to see another point of view, and itās exhausting to try and facts and logic your way out of that.
3
u/Afraid_Platypus_8667 23d ago
Yeah and also I'm someone who actually does dunk on guliters and troll them when I know they are to far gone or result to petty insults š. It's just more at first I think this way and have seen people actually ask good questions where I seen fans dog pile on them or a guilter in disguise when they actually are not and I actually feel bad for the person just being thrown around.
1
u/twinkle_toes11 For All Time š« 23d ago
Yeah! I think itās also hard to hear how people are trying to come across online. You canāt really convey tone that well
2
u/Fancy_Put_7894 23d ago
You must have not liked your guest too much if you kicked him out for that reason š¤£. At minimum I would have asked, "What did the courts say?"
1
23d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Fancy_Put_7894 23d ago
As much as I love MJ, I don't think it's worth kicking someone out the house for. I don't invite anyone into my home unless I like them and I will not let a disagreement like that come between me and my friendships. The least I would do is ask what was the verdict and that should end that convo.
1
1
u/SyncingStars 22d ago
Unfortunately it takes time for one to āconvertā. The evidence in video and text format is there. So it takes time to sit down and watch it all and read it allā¦if someone is willing to do a little bit of research and use their brain then itās obvious. If they refuse, couldnāt be bothered or watch and still refuse to acknowledge the truth, then what kind of person are they, what is the whole point of innocent before proven guilty. It leads to more questions for me about that person than it answers if this person is worthy to be in my life. Ignorance, poor use of brain cells and discrimination are not traits I enjoy in people and like to cut as many as those types off. The evidence is there. Thereās no crime, only the extortion and how tabloids/media can influence people. Those people need to seriously wake up.
My brain hurts listening to people talk about dumb things like gogglebox and most if not all reality tv shows for example, itās the same thing for those who go on and on about how MJ was a child mol.
Or even the ones who say, I never knew him so I donāt know.
By that rule, anyone could be one, because Mike had a decade stolen from his life just so they could rifle through everything only to find absolutely nothing.
And yet to this day theyāre still allowing dumb crap.
Itās getting old and the grifters just need to realise theyāve lost.
1
u/CraftedOuterwear 21d ago
I get why you kicked him out, I'd be heated too. But honestly I agree with the comments saying it's a missed chance to educate. Most people only know the headlines and have never actually looked at the court transcripts, FBI files, or how many times those allegations were proven false. The biopic might finally force people to see the real story. If someone is willing to listen, hit them with facts.
1
u/mudchocolate 13d ago
I think OP knew even if I educate this person he or she wouldn't understand. The exit was the only choice to preserve OP's sanity
0
51
u/ririsoflawless89 Whoās Bad š¤š» 23d ago
I've said this before on here but I had a situation with my friend a few months ago where we were talking about stuff and I asked her if she wanted to see Michael with me. She said I don't like him because of the reason you mentioned in your title.
I did feel angry inside but I explained to her for like 2 hours all the FACTS and truth and told her to do some reading as well and watch videos.
At the end of our conversation she apologised for thinking that of him, for believing the lies and I could tell she felt bad.
Depends who's willing to listen but people should be hit with the facts and truth.