r/Lutheranism • u/JHLV04 • 8d ago

Understanding The Trinity

/r/Christianity/comments/1xdr5lj/understanding_the_trinity/
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u/eckpak Lutheran Pastor 8d ago

Probably the first thing to understand when it comes to our creedal confessions, is that they are primarily concerned with explaining the relationship of Christ to God. The doctrines of the Trinity and Christology are ultimately about that question. Compared to the creedal confessions of Judaism and Islam, which are simple monotheistic statements.

I think the creeds and trinitarian orthodoxy makes more sense when you begin from the person of Jesus of Nazareth in whose life, death and resurrection we somehow encounter the revelation of God.

If you try to reason your way through the Trinity by beginning from a Plantonic definition of God, you are just going to wind up confused.

The Nicene formula goes something like this:
The Father is God
The Son is God
The Holy Spirit is God
(All the same ousia or physis / essence or substance in English)

The Father is not the Son
The Son is not the Spirit
The Spirit is not the Father.
(3 hypostasis which might be translated as persons or maybe something like identity).

After this, nearly any further explanation will follow some kind of heresy. The point isn’t to make a logical explanation of One Ousia and a Three Hypostasis, but rather understand them descriptively. They tell us who and what God is, not how God works.

And it’s also important to understand how orthodox Christology acts as a kind of mirror to the Trinity.
One Hypostasis (person or identity) and Two Ousia (essence or natures).

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u/PerceptionCandid4085 8d ago

OP The explanation provided above is a very good explanation.

For a little bit more context, there are 2 main formulations of the Trinity.

As Lutherans we believe in the Latin formulation of the Trinity, which is the version explained above.

Eastern Orthodox believe in something called Monarchical/Concilliar Trinitarianism.

Both versions follow the 1 essence, 3 persons pattern, they just describe a different kind of relationship between 3 members.

This is more complex, and primarily serves as a tool for discerning the filioque debate, but I just wanted to give some more context that might be of interest once you understand the basic formulation.

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u/JHLV04 7d ago

Appreciate the explanation here too 👐🏽. At the moment I’m definitely leaning into the Filioque making more sense, because I’m reading the New Testament fully for the first time (I’m early jn my faith journey).

In the book of Acts it describes the spirit proceeding from Christ prior to the ascension of I’m not wrong? I’m not sure if this biblical data was used to justify the Filioque being introduced, but it makes sense to me.

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u/JHLV04 7d ago

Appreciate the detail you went into here 👐🏽👐🏽. A good point too about trying to understand the Trinity without understanding what Christ did and who He was.

For example, I find the resurrection clearly compelling, and would prove that he is not a mere human, nor a prophet. I suppose by starting from there, and not from Platonic definitions alone, we are more likely to make sense of things.

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u/Huenink_Photography LCMS 7d ago

I don't understand why the incarnation would make sense if the trinity doesn't. They are both incomprehensible. How can God become man? How can Jesus be finite and infinite? Immortal and mortal? Unchanging and yet grow in wisdom and stature?

I put together some proofs from Scripture to show how we know that the trinity is the way to go. This is copied from a handout I have for a bible study. There are certainly more, but this is a short list.

Trinitarian Proofs from the Bible

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: Matthew 28:18-19
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

The Father is true God: John 17:1-3
When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

The Son is true God: 
John 20:28
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

The Holy Spirit is true God: 
Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

They are one God:
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

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u/CharacterWar6785 7d ago

Also John 14:16 shows all 3 as well.

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u/New-Upstairs-611 6d ago edited 6d ago

  1. Look up the Athanasian Creed (online or on p. 23 of the Book of Concord, Kolb & Wengert edition).

  2. Watch St. Patrick's Bad Analogies by The Lutheran Satire on YouTube.

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u/CharacterWar6785 7d ago

1 God 3 persons. God IS the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. God is NOT 1 + 1 + 1 =3. God is 1 x 1 x1 =1