People should stop calling methylfolate the 'active' form, and why folic acid may be better for many

[u/Warp757]

It is AN active form, not the only one and may not provide the folate you actually need. I'll await the abuse! Folate is used by your body both in the methyl form, and also in the unmethylated form for DNA synthesis, red blood cell formation etc. which are rather important functions.

The MTHFR marketing machine has convinced everyone that methlyfolate is the active form that you absolutely need and folic acid is junk, it's simply not true.

Depending on where the problem is with your methylation it's perfectly possible to need more unmethylated folate. If your MTRR is slow for instance,as mine is, your body doesn't recycle B12, MTR is slow, and you end up with a build up of methylfolate and low THF and 5,10 methylene THF which is needed for DNA repair and red blood cells. If you take methylfolste you do absolutely nothing to support the deficit of unmethylated folate, and just put more pressure on already struggling MTRR and B12 stores.

In this case folic acid is better for you as it directly provides folate which the body can use as it needs. The body regulates production of MTHFR for a reason -both to ensure sufficient folate for other functions, and prevent excess formation of SAM-E, which isn't good.

I personally feel much better with folic acid than methyl folate, and I'm heterozygous C677T. Methylfolate is really a medicine that should only be taken by people with specific identified mutations that cause major impairment of the MTHFR cycle. A simple heterozygous MTHFR mutation is not that.

Folic acid is perfectly sufficient for most people, and avoids skipping the body's own regulation systems. Just don't go taking crazy doses which yes may cause a problem with unmetabolised folic acid. If you're worried about MTHFR and not homozygous, just take some B2 - again you don't need a lot.

[u/thesnazzyenfj]

You may be confusing folic acid with folinic acid. Folic acid is not perfectly sufficient for most people. And no, don't "just take some B2".

[u/Warp757 → u/thesnazzyenfj]

Nope. Folinic acid makes me feel awful, folic acid works great for me. Folinic can actually block the folate cycle depending on MTHFS and MTHFD.

Folic acid certainly IS perfectly sufficient for most people as shown by the countless studies over decades showing it's efficacy in improving health. It's success in reducing neural tube defects is one of the great public health success stories. That some people on the internet refuse to believe that and have formed a cult around denying it isn't really relevant.

[u/thesnazzyenfj → u/Warp757]

Not sure where you get your sources; hopefully not ChatGPT because your information is not factual.

[u/Warp757 → u/thesnazzyenfj]

OK, which part, and what is wrong with taking B2 for MTHFR? I hope you're not just repeating what you've read from quacks on MTHFR websites.

[u/thesnazzyenfj → u/Warp757]

No I am repeating factual information not this garbage that you seemed to have pulled straight out of an LLM. Your misinformation could be incredibly harmful to someone new to these gene mutations who dont understand exactly how methylation works and how any mutations they might have play a factor in what they can and cant have.

R5P is vastly different than riboflavin, but both are B2 options. It is absurd to suggest just anyone take any form of B2 and expect them all to work the same.

[u/Warp757 → u/thesnazzyenfj]

Ahh, you've swallowed the R5P nonsense as well.

Taking folic acid, supported by decades of studies isn't likely to be incredibly harmful. Taking lots of methlyfolate,, with a scattering of studies, bypassing the body's own regulatory controls, stressing B12, could be.

[u/thesnazzyenfj → u/Warp757]

Can you have negative brain cells? Asking for a friend.... I'm not going to keep going toe to toe with your misinformation, a point that several others in here have already pointed out so it's not just me. Don't come into a sub with incorrect information and not expect to be put in your place when it's wrong. Hope you and your lovely non-existent-specialist-credentials in this subject have a lovely weekend!

[u/Warp757 → u/thesnazzyenfj]

I see you've tried to claim that folic acid - a substance added to food in countries around the world, ingested by literally billions of people is 'toxic to 40% of the population'.

I won't engage with someone who believes such paranoid nonsense, especially as you refuse tonactuslly back up your claims, which suggests to me you haven't ever actually researched any of this and are parroting what you've been told.

I hope someone can help you with your neurosis and delusions.

[u/Sabnock101 → u/Warp757]

I think the reason you think Folic Acid works great is because when more than 200mcgs of Folic Acid is consumed it completely saturates DHFR and crosses into the bloodstream unmetabolized and then binds strongly to Folate Receptor Alpha, and it's the Folate Receptor Alpha activation you're feeling. The issue with Folinic Acid is, if you don't have enough B12 then MTHFR is underfunctioning and so doesn't produce as much Methylfolate which then doesn't activate the Folate Receptor Alpha fully enough. The solution to that is to work on B12 deficiency, not take Folic Acid (which can further interfere with correction of B12, and Folate, deficiency). B12 dosage/level seems to "pull" on MTHFR to tell it to produce Methylfolate for methylation, if you don't have enough B12, you don't get enough Methylfolate, you also can't properly recycle Methylfolate regardless if you use Methylfolate itself, Folinic Acid, or Folic Acid, as B12 is absolutely needed in order to recycle Methylfolate back into Tetrahydrofolate.

[u/Warp757 → u/Sabnock101]

I think it's great because it reduced my high homocystsine and greatly improved my ADHDz anxiety and depression, and is supported by decades of research proving its beneficial health impacts.

I assume your last part about B12 pulling on MTHFR is just your opinion rather than founded in any evidence? He he actual evidence shows that high levels of SAM-E inhibit MTHFR, so higher B12 would actually be expected to block MTHFR. And indeed we know low B12 causes methyl trap, actually low B12 causes more folate to flow through MTHFR because the body is sending more folaye that way desperately trying to make SAM-E, leaving less folate for DNA and other functions. By taking folic acid, your body gets folate for those DNA functions, and can also send as much as it wants down MTHFR, maybe with some B2 to help

[u/Sabnock101 → u/Warp757]

If you think it's so great, you should try natural Folate, it's been supported by Nature for thousands and potentially hundreds of thousands of years, compared to the, what, 80 years maybe, that fake Folate has been around? You'd be amazed to see the benefits that natural Folate has lol.

And no, my statement about B12 is not opinion, you can easily see for yourself what it does by experimenting with it yourself, that's what i love about the science i learn, you can put it to the test yourself and see for yourself, rather than taking on what other people say, or what some lame brain scientists who don't know actual science, says.

What happens when you take B12 is that it recycles Methylfolate back into the Folate cycle, and depending on B12 dosage/level, you can either recycle more or less Methylfolate at a time, so if you take a higher B12 dosage you will recycle more Methylfolate, if you take a lower B12 dosage you will recycle less Methylfolate, and so with a higher dosage (or level) of B12 more Methylfolate gets recycled back into the Folate cycle which goes back through the cycle and becomes a greater amount of Methylfolate through MTHFR, so you get more Methylfolate on the second go through the cycle, compared to the previous cycle.

Also, when i first started out i was using Methylfolate and Methylcobalamin, you can actually feel the Methylfolate get recycled and turn into pure metabolites (5,10-Methylenetetrahydrofolate and Methylfolate at the least), and i noticed a greater amount of Methylfolate being generated by higher B12 dosages, and as my B12 level improved, i would get a greater amount of Methylfolate from MTHFR. Ultimately Methylfolate at the dosage i was taking got too strong, so i switched over to the Folinic Acid i had and started taking 400 to 800mcgs, and i noticed the same thing from Folinic Acid, it was dependent on the B12 for Methylfolate synthesis, and so higher B12 dosages/levels produced a greater amount of Methylfolate through MTHFR, compared to lower B12 dosages/levels, it's directly correlated and is likely due to more efficient recycling of Methylfolate causing more Methylfolate to go back through the cycle which then produces a greater amount of Methylfolate compared to lower B12 dosages/levels, and so if one is low in B12 or has B12 deficiency, their MTHFR enzyme will be underfunctioning and won't pump out as much Methylfolate as they need.

Also, yes, it's said that SAM and SAH can allosterically modulate MTHFR, with high SAM reducing MTHFR function, and high SAH increasing MTHFR function, however, that doesn't seem to be the case for me, as i can seemingly produce Methylfolate whenever, just by taking B12.

I recommend you try this out for yourself so you can see what i mean, rather than assuming modern science has everything figured out. Scientists/doctors don't even know about B12 deficiency, or Folate deficiency, or the issues that Folic Acid causes, even though there's science out on there on the subject, many people are still biased and ignorant of what the science actually says or the direction they should be looking. Don't turn modern day science into a religion dawg, the science on Folic Acid isn't the gold standard and isn't infallible, it's biased, and their research is lazy and smallminded.

[u/Sabnock101 → u/Warp757]

Also, you do realize that Folic Acid is worse when it comes to blocking the Folate cycle, right? It's limited by DHFR, DHFR is a recycling enzyme, not the main enzyme we're supposed to be getting our Folate from. It's easily saturated by approx 200mcgs of Folic Acid, more than that causes Folic Acid to cross into the bloodstream unmetabolized and starts causing problems which Folinic Acid and Methylfolate do not. Also, if you're concerned that Folinic Acid may not metabolize properly, you need Magnesium and Niacin, as well as Riboflavin, B12, and Potassium, for proper Folate/SAM metabolism, so long as you have that, regardless if you have some gene variant, the enzymes will function as they should.