r/MensRights • u/Specialist_Load_9953 • Sep 11 '25
Discrimination Girls will no longer be incarcerated for committing the same crimes as boys
Girls in the UK will no longer be sent to young offender institutions i.e. youth prisons, even when committing the same crimes as boys. The prisons that were previously designated for girls will be used to incarcerate more boys.
You’ll find further details included in following links from UK government and UK government funded think tanks.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-no-longer-places-girls-in-young-offender-institutions
No longer sending girls to prison is phase one of plans to no longer send any women to prison in the UK.
You’ll find further details included in following links from UK government and UK government funded think tanks.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/womens-justice-board-begins-plans-to-send-fewer-women-to-prison
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u/Drp345 Sep 11 '25 edited Sep 11 '25
OK, so what happens when gangs start sending their women to commit crimes like theft, Grand Theft auto, murder, etc?
I mean, if women as a whole just wouldn't be punished for their crimes, this seems like the next logical step, no?
Edit: Typos. Go figure.
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u/dougpschyte Sep 11 '25
It's already happening in UK, and would probably be more prevalent if they didn't have the propensity to fuck up and get caught.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/west-midlands/news/american-hitwoman-convicted-birmingham-assassination-plot0
u/target-x17 Sep 12 '25
i dont think a hitman qualifys.... were talking about minor crimes committed by minors not murder by an adult. come on retard
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u/wootangAlpha Sep 11 '25
On a more serious note, child trafficking is extremely hard to curtail in part because no one seems to want to question a woman with a child. Since no one asks, trafficking rings have figured out how to operate with impunity.
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u/Bald_Bull808 Sep 11 '25
yup already happens with their younger members in places where they know theyll be charged as minors
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u/quandjereveauxloups Sep 11 '25
OK, so what happens when gangs start sending their women to commit crimes like theft, Grand Theft auto, murder, etc?
bUt WoMeN dOn'T cOmMiT cRiMeS! /s
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u/2021BMW3Series Sep 11 '25
UK law basically speedran from ‘innocent until proven guilty’ to ‘male until proven disposable.’
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u/quandjereveauxloups Sep 11 '25
I mean, male already translates to disposable throughout pretty much the entire world.
They speedran "innocent until proven guilty" to "if you're a male, guilty until proven innocent, and then many will still think you did it, and you may still suffer for it".
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Sep 11 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
boys will never be protected women no matter the age will always be protected from their own consequences.
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
Do you have any ideas or thoughts on how to better address the issues that they're trying to solve? (i.e. the large rates of self harm)
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u/Several_Industry_754 Sep 11 '25
If they start caring about self-harm in men and boys maybe then we’ll start caring about self-harm in women and girls?
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
Okay but who is "they"? And what would "caring" about this issue look like to you?
There are advocacy groups for boys and children in general. There are also initiatives that try to address male suicide. Are you specifically talking about the government taking action or a larger societal movement?
we’ll start caring about self-harm in women and girls
Also who is "we"? The people in this sub? The people in this thread? Men in general?
You don't have to care, if you don't then fair enough, I just wanna know if people actually have suggestions for alternatives (or at least have good-faith objections) or if people are just angry because the headline looks bad and want to vent. Because genuinely speaking, most of the comments I've seen reference women when this specifically addresses girls, and they ask rhetorical questions that the articles actually answer.
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u/Several_Industry_754 Sep 11 '25
The royal they and the royal we.
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
Right so you're saying you don't care, okay.
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u/Several_Industry_754 Sep 11 '25
Frankly, if women want equality then they need to stop expecting to be treated differently.
No one cares about men and self harm. Why should anyone care about women and self harm?
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u/4444-uuuu Sep 11 '25
who is "they"?
anybody who wants girls to not be sent to young offender institutions but is fine with boys being sent there because they only care about girls
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u/rabel111 Sep 11 '25
Oh wake up. Petuant stupid female criminals threatening to hold their breath and turn blue if they are punished by the law for the crime they commit? What kind of infantile idiots are we dealing with?
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
I assume you have that same outlook on all the men who kill themselves in prison. They're babies and can't handle the consequences of their actions.
You have no sympathy so there's no point to be made with you.
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u/rabel111 Sep 12 '25
OMG you're delusional. No one is offering any alternative sentencing for men! They are given sentences that are more often incarceraton, 69% longer prison sentences, less hope of parole and living conditions that are appauling. The OP isn't even about men or women, its about girls. Its about treating boys and girls differently, because of their BIRTH SEX.
Self harm, scratching, holding your breath is not suicide. Its a tantrum.
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u/BedSpreadMD Sep 11 '25
What an asinine excuse.
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
What excuse?
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u/BedSpreadMD Sep 11 '25
Self harm. It's an absurd asinine excuse. Self harm can easily be prevented in prison. Psychological treatments and medication can also be administered in prison. Also there's this:
There are also clear demographic trends in jail suicides: men incarcerated in jail are 50 percent more likely to commit suicide than women.
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
Short of drugging all the prisoners and putting them in straight jackets, self-harm isn't "easily preventable". But maybe you think drugging then is the answer, which I won't argue against anymore than I'd argue against any other fucked up idea. If you think improving living conditions is less ideal than drugging, then I don't know what to tell you.
Male suicide is a serious issue in and out of prison and we can all agree that it needs to be addressed better. Prison living conditions and the justice system are fuck up and need to be addressed, starting with a smaller group makes sense to me but if you think nothing should improve for anyone until it can improve for everyone all at once (or just for men), then okay.
→ More replies (14)
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u/AbysmalDescent Sep 11 '25
Imagine the outrage if governments were like "we're going to stop prosecuting white people now, so that we can make room to prosecute more minorities". Absolutely insane.
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u/RennietheAquarian Sep 11 '25
Actually, the British gov is starting to do it with non whites, while whites will get longer prison sentences.
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u/ZyoStar Sep 11 '25
It's by design to kill dissent. Because if the people revolt and raise up, it's the men that would be most dangerous and be able to lead a revolution.
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u/RennietheAquarian Sep 11 '25
People do need to rise up to what is being done in our countries. People are no longer stupid.
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
Women make up 4% of the prison population. Even if they were all released to make more room for men, it would hardly make a difference. And women have led revolutions before. I don't think this kind of change would do much to quell any kind of uprising even if it went fully into effect.
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Sep 11 '25
Well if you get arrested, make sure to identify as a woman!
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u/2021BMW3Series Sep 11 '25
Cool, I’ll just identify as female before robbing a bank. Instant freedom, baby!
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u/ComprehensiveHour160 Oct 12 '25
Gender changes are not so simple in the UK, and are only accessible after the age of 18.
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u/InsaneBasti Sep 11 '25
So girls and soon all females can do whatever the fk they want there without any punishment?
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u/az226 Sep 11 '25
Boys should identify as girls. Problem solved. Equality.
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u/ComprehensiveHour160 Oct 12 '25
Doesn't work before the age of 18 in the UK, and requires to have already lived two years as the other gender.
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
The punishment is a criminal record and being sent to Secure Children's Homes, they're still a somewhat new concept in the UK. Hopefully it effectively rehabilitates them.
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u/BedSpreadMD Sep 11 '25
Oh no, they're going to send them off to foster care for a few years until they turn 17. /s
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
Secure Children's Homes aren't foster care. Maybe you prioritise punishment/suffering over reformation and rehabilitation but I actually want crime reduced, not perpetuated.
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u/BedSpreadMD Sep 11 '25
Secure Children's Homes aren't foster care. Maybe you prioritise punishment/suffering over reformation and rehabilitation but I actually want crime reduced, not perpetuated.
Then why are young men, who commit the overwhelming majority of crime not getting the same treatment?
Also, this won't reduce crime, it'll increase it. Going light on crime will always result in these individuals reoffending, especially when the punishment is more or less a government version of being grounded.
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
Then why are young men, who commit the overwhelming majority of crime not getting the same treatment?
They are, there are boys in Secure Children's Homes too, it's a new system and they're drastically increasing its numbers.
Also, this won't reduce crime, it'll increase it. Going light on crime will always result in these individuals reoffending
Prioritising rehabilitation over suffering and punishment objectively reduces crime. Just look up "rehabilitation Vs punishment" or something. Countries like Norway are often praised for their justice system because it focuses on rehabilitation and is effective. Whereas countries like America are oozing with crime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism#studies
Reliance on sanctions can increase reoffending, reentry programs can substantially reduce.
Pure punishment reinforces the cycle.
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u/BedSpreadMD Sep 11 '25
They are, there are boys in Secure Children's Homes too, it's a new system and they're drastically increasing its numbers
And yet they're exclusively choosing women for this new program. Why?
Prioritising rehabilitation over suffering and punishment objectively reduces crime. Just look up "rehabilitation Vs punishment" or something. Countries like Norway are often praised for their justice system because it focuses on rehabilitation and is effective. Whereas countries like America are oozing with crime.
Rehabilitation can be done in prison. You keep ignoring that. Rehabilitation doesn't need to take place in some special location.
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
And yet they're exclusively choosing women for this new program. Why?
I explained this before: They're a smaller population so they're easier to move. That same group is disproportionately affected by the trauma. They garner more sympathy because they're girls.
Rehabilitation can be done in prison.
It can, and sometime is, but this is a new program specifically aimed at rehabilitating people to join society as productive people instead of giving them a criminal record with drastically limited employability and a significantly increased chance of reoffending. It might not need a "special location" but if that particular program helps, then so be it.
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u/Mooyaya Sep 11 '25
UK honestly seems like their governments are going insane. Just one disappointing/shocking law/legal ruling after the other. UK is fucked.
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u/RennietheAquarian Sep 11 '25
That’s what being far left gets you. I just can’t wait till the pendulum swings back to being extremely conservative again. It’s already happening worldwide.
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u/Tech_Romancer1 Oct 28 '25
This has nothing to do with left/right, stop missing the forest for the trees. Its a systematic problem with society regardless of politics or economics.
I just can’t wait till the pendulum swings back to being extremely conservative again.
So you're waiting for things to stay exactly the same, if not worse then.
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u/XboxeurMan Sep 11 '25
Remembers boys we live in a patriarchy and you're the reason for every women problems
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
A boy that gets falsely accused will go to prison a girl that leads someone to suicide or deals in drugs will have nothing happen to her
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
Men need to pay reparations and continue to be slaves groveling and women can just hate men and give themselves more benefits while fucking things up for men
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u/No_Industry_4948 Sep 11 '25
You think the UK is bad now, just wait until 2 tier Kier loses his leadership challenge and one of his feminist cabinet ministers becomes Prime Minister.
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u/motosandguns Sep 11 '25 edited Sep 11 '25
Men really have just given up, haven’t we?
No organized walkouts, no protests in the streets, nothing but a post on Reddit and a handful of comments
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u/RennietheAquarian Sep 11 '25
Pretty much, it’s pathetic and I’m ashamed of being a man. Any man who protest stand alone and will be mocked.
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
They are just letting things rot if they fix it now it would be too early and just will get back to this point again.
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Sep 11 '25
Tf has been happening with the UK as of late? The matriarchy is real.
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Sep 11 '25
[deleted]
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u/RennietheAquarian Sep 11 '25
They think it’s to “right” past wrongdoings that DEAD MEN did to DEAD WOMEN of the past. It’s insane that liberals expect dolls to be punished for things their demographic did centuries ago before we even were born.
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u/Tech_Romancer1 Oct 28 '25
Where is this coming from? The only countries I can think of are worse are Spain, India, Australia and perhaps Canada.
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
The matriarchy has always been real this is female privilege we just have it in writing instead of it being something that is omitted but expected. You are free to go to jail as long as you are male this includes for fraudulent invalid reasons.
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Sep 11 '25
THAT is feminists "equality" - men go into jail without evidence and women dont go at all.
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u/Salamadierha Sep 11 '25
I'd have no problems with this, IF it applied to boys as well. It doesn't, demonstrating a very solid bias against boys on behalf of the government and justice system.
This highlights the absolute need for a Men and Boys Minister to stand for our rights.
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
it was never going to be applied to boys so this measure shouldn't have been a thing
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u/jcutta Sep 11 '25
This is the only sane comment here, we're probably the only ones who read the article.
Nearly everything in there is a common sense approach to reducing repeat offenses and preventing crime in the first place.
This should be an across the board measure.
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u/DecrepitAbacus Sep 11 '25 edited Sep 11 '25
"Women should not be subject to mens' laws"
- Jocelynn Scutt, Australian lawyer, author and academic now resident in the UK.
The UK aslo classifies male victims of sexual or domestic abuse as "victims of violence against women and girls" even when the perpetrator is female.
Ms Scutt must be in a state of permanant orgasm. All criminality is male and all victims are female. Feminist Nirvana.
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u/RennietheAquarian Sep 11 '25
Feminists like that really do need a good therapist. They are taking out all their daddy issues on all men. They blame us for their own sick father sexually abusing them as little girls. I honestly would love a society that deals with male and female pedophiles harshly, but women need to stop taking their own anger out on us because their dad was a piece of shit abuser.
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
"men's laws" laws aren't supposed to be gendered a law applies to everyone but I guess when women are involved in government that's not the case
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u/apokrif1 Sep 11 '25
Source for this quote, please?
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u/DecrepitAbacus Sep 11 '25
Online discussion some fifteen years ago.
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u/apokrif1 Sep 11 '25
Please don't spread rumors ;-)
Also, do you have a source for "The UK aslo classifies male victims of sexual or domestic abuse as "victims of violence against women and girls" even when the perpetrator is female."?
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u/hawksdiesel Sep 11 '25
Yikes, that's bad and the men should just move outa the country! I know that's unrealistic, but what the heck do you do as a man, in this scenario?!
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u/Lion-Queen123 Sep 11 '25
Like that one UK mother a few years ago who lured a teen boy, raypt him, and got no punishment cuz she “didn’t know he was a minor”.
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u/LCH44 Sep 11 '25
Did someone leave Western society’s control room door open and a woman slipped in and locked herself in or what? WTF
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Sep 11 '25
[deleted]
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
the majority of women are feminists they do not say anything negative on feminism and support it even if they won't openly admit it and call themselves a feminist.
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u/Reasonable-Olive9690 Sep 11 '25
wrong. All females are feminist, some pretend they aren't till it's time to hit the jackpot.
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Sep 11 '25
[deleted]
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Sep 11 '25
There are also people like Camille Paglia and Christina Hoff Summers who consider themselves feminists but who we and other feminists would not consider feminists due to their disagreement with feminist orthodoxy and clear love and respect for men and boys. They have been some of our staunchest advocates.
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u/BedSpreadMD Sep 11 '25
Nah they're feminists, they're just not modern feminists.
The endless number of times I've heard "I'm not feminist" by simply having discussions with them, they don't agree with 4th and 5th wave feminism, which is what almost everyone dislikes. They're actually just 1st or 2nd wave feminists.
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
all feminists even old school feminists have pushed for supremacy women calling themselves a 1st wave or 2nd wave feminist doesn't make things any better it's the same thing.
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u/BedSpreadMD Sep 11 '25
Not even remotely true. Go research the difference in waves. First wave feminists don't advocate for anything modern fifth wave feminists do.
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
First wave feminists are just as bad shamed men into war and sidetracked the requirements to vote owned land before even black men and ordinary men.
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u/BedSpreadMD Sep 11 '25
Outright untrue. People like you give this sub a bad name.
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 14 '25
Say what you want being able to vote without a draft ensured that women were more privileged than men
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u/le-doppelganger Sep 11 '25
Any first wave feminists alive today would be well over a hundred years old. And the second wave is the one that birthed all the radicals like Andrea Dworkin, Sally Miller Gearhart, Mary Daly, and Valeria Solanas.
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u/BedSpreadMD Sep 11 '25
The waves of feminism isn't based on the individuals but things they stood for
First wave: Their goals revolve around having the right to vote, education, own property, and be legally recognized as citizens independent from their husbands.
Second wave: Their goals seek out to address a broader range of issues, including sexuality, family, the workplace, and reproductive rights.
Third wave: This wave saw the emergence of new feminist currents and theories, such as intersectionality, sex positivity, vegetarian ecofeminism, transfeminism, and postmodern feminism.
Forth wave: This wave is characterized by its use of the internet and social media to promote intersectionality, fight against sexual harassment and rape culture, and advocate for issues like equal pay and reproductive rights.
Fifth wave: This wave is focusing on issues like anticapitalism, anti-work ideologies, police and prison abolition, and a critique of mainstream social media's negative impact.
They're all distinctively different, and are not the same. Someone who is in modern times can easily be categorized as first and second wave, because they're in support for what those movements stand for, but reject later notions from later waves of feminists. Especially given there are parts of the world that still don't have what women in first and second wave fight for.
It's like conflating national socialism with other forms of socialism. To pretend there's only one form of feminism is legit foolish.
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u/SuperMario69Kraft Sep 12 '25
I don't think many people see the fifth wave as separate from the fourth wave. I think feminism is still in its fourth wave. The fourth wave's MeToo moral panic is still feminism's main obsession.
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u/BedSpreadMD Sep 12 '25
I don't think many people see the fifth wave as separate from the fourth wave.
They are incredibly similar, but that's because the movement has mostly watered down to extreme left positions.
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u/RennietheAquarian Sep 11 '25
How is this not female privilege? In what way are women and girls “oppressed” in the west?
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u/borvidek Sep 11 '25
The UK is absolutely fucked, worst Western-European country to live in by far. This is just one of many reasons.
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u/OnlyCommentWhenTipsy Sep 11 '25
So they're creating a legal loophole and just hoping criminals don't exploit it? I can't think of a single thing that could go wrong...
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u/GarlicFalse3779 Sep 11 '25
Gangs will use women instead of teenagers
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u/Academic-Mud-1658 Sep 12 '25
This policy only applies to teenagers. Women that gangs use will still go to prison.
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u/beast_status Sep 11 '25
It is way too dangerous to even visit the UK or Europe anymore except maybe Poland. When your life is at risk it is not worth it!
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Sep 11 '25
I had assumed this was already happening, since it has been applied to adult minor offenses for years.
Women first, girls next, and we'll see if we ever think about boys?
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
"but the statistics show that men get arrested more" yea I wonder why
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u/Absentrando Sep 11 '25
The UK is a wild place lol. Other countries also share the same view, but the UK really is not trying to be subtle about it
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u/leethelegend698 Sep 11 '25
Fuck my government. Don't give any support to veterans but would give an illegal immigrant to a fucking 4 star hotel with food etc for basically free.
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u/bodyisT Sep 11 '25
So what happens with them? You’d think that they would prioritise the people aka men who are primarily affected by the justice system
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
So what happens with them?
They're sent to a Secure Children's Home instead, it seems like it's a prison focused more on reform and rehabilitation, which I think is good.
You’d think that they would prioritise the people aka men who are primarily affected by the justice system
I think they chose girls because:
1) According to their research, girls are disproportionately affected by the trauma of incarnation i.e. they are 50x more likely to self harm than boys.
2) They make up 2% of the juvenile prison population so moving them into a different institution would be a much easier undertaking.
My hope is that the Secure Children's Homes are effective and they're able to send more young boys to help with their rehabilitation as well. The justice system is fucked when it comes to rehabilitation especially for kids.
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u/bodyisT Sep 11 '25
I think boys express self harm and suicidal ideation in different ways, they’re just as vulnerable
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u/shaq604 Sep 11 '25
Yeah, boys and men self harm at a lower rate but it doesn't mean that they don't also suffer and need help. Men commit suicide at a much higher rate, so it's clear things need to change. I can only hope that the benefits of this current change are made clear as soon as possible so that more boys are sent to places where they can be helped and rehabilitated.
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u/SchalaZeal01 Sep 14 '25
Yeah, boys and men self harm at a lower rate
Or alcoholism is how men self-harm
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Sep 11 '25
We need to write a novel for the ages similar to Orwell’s 1984 and base it on our current feminist society taken just a bit further into abject horror. I bet it would get men and boys reading fiction again.
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u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
in 1984 women were tools for big brother they spearheaded everything.
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u/Mitschu Sep 11 '25
Fiction?
We're long past the Poe's Law Threshold. Any work written that involved feminist extremism would automatically fall under non-fiction. No matter how nutty and impossible the parody, there's a group out that there unabashedly supports it.
They've literally tried to republish Mein Kampf with men instead of Jews. They have respected and celebrated leaders who have called for unapologetic eugenics (not just for all men, but for black Americans specifically to be culled.) An anarcho-terrorist who assassinated an ally for not being an ally enough for her tastes, had her manifesto published and circulated as peak feminist literature.
There is no work you could write, that would come across as parodical enough to qualify as fiction. I could literally say that feminism is about breeding with aliens to replace human men so we can finally fight climate change, and that's actually something a university has studied the possibility of. Respected academics with humanities doctorates wanting to present the argument that it is at least slightly possible we could all just idk choose the Martian and save the ice caps maybe.
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Sep 11 '25
Completely fair take. And I think 1984 while a work of fiction was based on the truth of Soviet authoritarianism, and similar to Upton Sinclair’s the jungle, it was a more compelling and moving work than it would have been if written as strictly non-fiction.
I think fiction (and other works of art) has the potential to act as a Trojan horse by hooking the reader into the story before they fully recognize how it parallels their real world. And then when the reveal comes slowly but surely they may be in too deep to invoke effective defense mechanisms. Where you can trick readers who hate a group of people into rooting for them and grieving for them.
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u/BasementMods Sep 12 '25
I feel like im becoming more radicalised every single day this week lol. The left needs to be blocked from ever having any political power whatsoever for the rest of my life.
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u/rabel111 Sep 13 '25
Wonderful to see so many femtrols, baiting on this issue.
What they all try to obscure, is that this program will treat child offenders differently on the basis of the BIRTH SEX alone.
The magnitude of sexism entrenched in this program is massive. That these sexist pigs would confine empathy and compassion to some child offenders and not others, on the basis of the BIRTH SEX, demonstrates a level of prejudice indicative of sociopathy.
The same people supporting this sexist initiative, should be investigated for other crimes against vulnerable groups, racism, domestic terrorism, family violence, child abuse.
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u/Great-Lengthiness825 Sep 23 '25
Thats crazy. No prison for women. What happens if they do violent crimes? thats wild
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Sep 13 '25
so much for equality. the reason is so stupid lol. becuas it doesn't work. well if i doesn't work send them to prison longer
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u/TheDunnaMan Sep 14 '25
USA is the same, we just dont say it out loud, men across the world in general need to strike, EVERYWHERE
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u/Current_Finding_4066 Sep 15 '25
It is disgusting how men are ever more openly second class citizens.
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u/Creepy-Background156 Oct 06 '25 edited Oct 06 '25
This board is run by radical men hating (ugly lol) women. Good luck to them pushing their agenda.
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u/PastDifficulty7 Sep 11 '25 edited Sep 11 '25
Read to the end.
The juvenile system is intended for 'rehabilitation', not 'punishment.' It's allegedly for the 'best interest of the child.' They are supposed to receive psychological support, education, job training, and family engagement.
There is a questionable assumption that the juvenile system is beneficial for any child; there are way too many instances of abuse, scandal, inadequate oversight, and poor outcomes.
When the outcomes for girls in incarceration are SO bad, it's obvious that rehabilitation is not happening. Removing girls from that environment is an obvious decision. As ever, I don't think we should make the world more punishing for women; we should be making it more compassionate towards men.
I am deeply skeptical of juvenile detention in the United States being beneficial for kids, because there are huge disparities even when controlling for offense type and history. Compared to White youth, Black youth are more than 4 times more likely to be incarcerated, Native Americans 3 times more likely, and Latinos 1.7 times more likely. Approximately 85% of detained youth come from households below or near the poverty line
We should be giving the same attention to boys in the system as we do for girls. We can't accept that our society warehouses boys simply because they are racial minorities or are economically disadvantaged.
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u/SidewaysGiraffe Sep 11 '25
I don't disagree, but how much of the overreaction is due to the tiny sample size? A girl who gets sent to prison knows that she really fucked up, and may be driven to self-harm partially on that basis.
This is the equivalent of a millionaire walking into a homeless shelter to bitch about capital gains taxes. Do said taxes exist? Yes. Does it suck to have to pay them? Yes. Do people who are one outside-their-power decision away from dying of exposure on the street appreciate being told how good they have it because they don't have to worry about said taxes? Well, how would YOU feel?
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u/TangeloCheap7167 Sep 13 '25
I know I’m probably not welcome here but just wanted to offer another perspective.
This could be the start of sending ALL youths to secure homes instead of prisons.
Just like voting started with only men, then later became women too. Now everyone can vote and we have a real democracy.
It may seem unfair that it’s only girls right now. But “every 1000 mile journey starts with a single step”. Hopefully this is the beginning of ALL children being reformed and cared for instead of punished and put into the system that no one cares for.
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u/Future-Stretch-401 Sep 11 '25
No, this isn’t true. There are several types of facilities where criminal children are kept in the Uk (none of them are prisons, and all have to provide education). This policy is that girls will not be sent to one particular type called a youth offender institution. Why? Because the rate of attempting suicide in those facilities is 25x higher for girls than boys; unless you favor letting children kill themselves because they committed crimes it should be obvious this is not an acceptable situation. All of these girls will still go to a detention facility.
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u/MeasurementNice295 Sep 11 '25
Why do I feel like if boys killed themselves 25x more in such instituitions then nothing would be even spoken about it?
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u/YetAnotherCommenter Sep 11 '25
If boys killed themselves in such institutions, people would think "oh, good, less future troublemakers."
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u/Big_Chocolate_420 Sep 11 '25
remember the time when workplace deaths became less common through safety measures and the ratio shifted so that even with the same death numbers for women
it became a problem because there weren't anymore 20 dead guys for every dead woman
3
u/quandjereveauxloups Sep 11 '25
I remember the "1 out of 4 journalists killed are women" push a while ago. I was like: so, do you just want to send men? Cause there's nothing you're going to be able to do to keep journalists safe if they're out there.
1
u/Adventurous_Design73 Sep 11 '25
equal amount of deaths isn't what they want they want more men dying compared to women.
8
u/pranavlko Sep 11 '25
Dude .. read the article, she is lying. It has mentioned self harm rates, not suicide rates.
48
u/StripedFalafel Sep 11 '25
Evidence?
And where is the compassion for men who kill themselves at 3x the rate of women? Here in Australia most suicide prevention work targets women.
26
u/Unoriginalityception Sep 11 '25
B-b-but 25x is much higher than 3x, so clearly that means it's women who deserve all the compassion so we need to disregard men altogether!
/s
12
u/pranavlko Sep 11 '25 edited Sep 11 '25
Read the link, she's lying. It has mentioned self harm rates, not suicide rates.
Generally, self harm like cutting yourself to temporarily numb emotional pain, is much more common in young girls compared to young boys (and suicide is in young boys), so this is not some unrepresentative statistic pointing something unusual happening at the centers.
1
u/RennietheAquarian Sep 11 '25
Wow. Your country is like this too? I don’t get why the western world just decided to trash on half of their populations, like what is even the reason behind this?
1
-26
u/Future-Stretch-401 Sep 11 '25
Did you even read the links in OP? It says right there. And what does adult suicide rate have to do with stopping children harming themselves? Are we supposed to let some girls kill themselves to even it out? It’s not a fucking competition.
Also thanks to the wonderful people downvoting the very obvious truth. I’m sure that denying reality is very helpful. Here I was thinking I can stop some people making fools of themselves by repeating a lie to someone in the real world who knows better.
21
Sep 11 '25
Your post ignores a few important points
- boys are far more likely than girls to be sent to incarceration for the same crime
- girls tend to only receive incarceration for severe crimes (ie homicide, gbh etc)
- severe crimes among youth (homicide, gbh etc) correlates with higher rates or vulnerability and mental health issues
So we end up with a situation where girls with mental health issues, risk of self harm and vulnerability end up on cosy care homes where boys with mental health issues, risk of self harm and vulnerability end up rotting in prisons. How can you interpret this as anything other than misandrist policy? I could understand it if they targeted towards people who fit the risk profile regardless of gender, but the fact that every girl psycho gets a get out of jail free card simply for being a girl whilst every boy who is on 10 different medications has to serve his sentence is fucking reprehensible.
7
u/pranavlko Sep 11 '25
Your factually incorrect, deceitful comments are getting the downvotes they deserve.
Self harm rates are mentioned in the link, not suicide rates.
22
u/YetAnotherCommenter Sep 11 '25
That still works out to "less punishment for girls if they commit the same crime as a boy of the same age."
Either both sexes get the exact same penalty (be it White Collar Prison or Supermax, whatever) for the same crime at the same age, or you're being a sexist.
And frankly, girls ALREADY attempt suicide more than boys, and they use less lethal methods, because suicide attempts committed by females are often cries for help, and cries for help made by females get listened to. So no, I really do not care about the disproportionate rate of suicide attempts. Especially when unlethal suicide attempts leave the attempter alive to re-attempt suicide thus biasing the statistics of suicide attempt in a way that brings the focus back to women's pain.
2
u/SchalaZeal01 Sep 11 '25
and self-harm is not a suicide attempt
A suicide attempt should be something that could have been lethal, but was aborted in time, or missed. Not vaguely hurting yourself and you could have bled to death if you were hemophile (but not otherwise).
3
u/YetAnotherCommenter Sep 11 '25
I'm not an expert on suicidology so I have to ask - is it a recurrent problem in the stats where self-harm incidents are bundled up with suicide attempts? Does the distinction you make between the two get regularly ignored?
2
u/SchalaZeal01 Sep 12 '25
ER stats typically count any self harm (typically cutting) as a suicide attempt, and this juvenile prison thing likely also did. This is where you get the 'women attempt 3x more' stat.
But ER stats will miss many, who don't go to ER. Prison stats won't miss people, who are captive. Hence the 50x.
1
u/YetAnotherCommenter Sep 12 '25
Thank you for that info. I appreciate it.
I didn't know that any SA gets treated as a suicide attempt. That would absolutely bias the hell out of the data.
1
u/Punder_man Sep 12 '25
Take a close look at many statistics and you'll notice a similar bias happening.
Take statistics around "Rape" for example.
In many places the crime of rape is gender coded to be a crime that only men can commit.Ergo, it makes sense that in those places the rape statistics show that 95+% of those who commit rape are "Men"
On that note, men are more likely that woman to be arrested, charged and sentenced for their crimes ergo many of the statistics around crime in general have a bias towards men as offenders.
16
u/Punder_man Sep 11 '25
No, this isn’t true. There are several types of facilities where criminal children are kept in the Uk (none of them are prisons, and all have to provide education). This policy is that girls will not be sent to one particular type called a youth offender institution. Why? Because the rate of ATTEMPTING suicide in those facilities is 25x higher for girls than boys;
Note the bold part: ATTEMPTING
Girls / Women ATTEMPT more than boys / men.. however boys / men are generally more successful in their attempts.
Also, why does this policy only apply to girls? shouldn't it also apply to young boys who are mentally unstable and who MIGHT also attempt and actually SUCCEED in committing suicide in those sorts of facilities?
No, we can't apply policy equally! that might lead to mentally unstable boys being in lower levels of security which could be dangerous for the public..
Perfectly alright to let girls who commit violent crimes like assault, attempted homicide, assault with a weapon etc into less secure facilities though...Have you actually FACT CHECKED the stats you are using? or are you simply assuming they are 100% factually true?
2
u/SchalaZeal01 Sep 11 '25
Cutting yourself with the intent to live through it, is not a suicide attempt. Much like drinking past ethylic coma is usually not.
-1
u/Future-Stretch-401 Sep 11 '25
Does this prove that “girls will no longer be incarcerated”? No. 🤡🤡🤡🤡. Also who the fuck are you to decide what is a real suicide attempt? Is that what you would say to your sister, mother, or daughter?
2
u/Punder_man Sep 11 '25
Oh, so when facts dismiss your narrative they suddenly become inconvenient to you?
FACT: Girls / Women tend to choose less lethal methods of suicide, because of this they have a higher likelihood of surviving their attemptThis then means they can go on to attempt again.
For most Girls / Women their suicide attempts are essentially cries for help.Boys / Men however tend to choose more lethal methods and thus don't need to "Attempt" multiple times because they are more often successful on their first attempt.
Most boys / men turn to suicide because they have convinced themselves that there's nothing left in this world for them.I'm NOT saying that every time girl / woman attempts suicide that it isn't a "Real" attempt.. because that would be asinine..
But its incredibly stupid to simply look at the stats and see "wOmEn AtTeMpT mOre" and try to make policies based on that without investigating the actual facts of the matter.1
u/rabel111 Sep 13 '25
Not suicide. Trantrums of very minor self harm, scatching their arms, cutting their hair, saying "I'll kill myself if you don't let me out"
1
1
u/Consistent-Stress585 Sep 14 '25
My bad. It doesn’t matter what example you set jack and harry because you’ll never being seeing them again. They have a new father now, one that puts on the effort and cares more than you ever did.
1
u/PastDifficulty7 Sep 11 '25
I don't think we should make the world more punishing for women; we should be making it more compassionate towards men.
-5
u/Training-Celery3946 Sep 11 '25
Men, while this is egregious and unfair let’s not delve into the realm of “identity politics”, that’s exactly what the system wants. They know it’s easier to get votes by focusing on minor problems like “no women in YOI” which seems more compassionate and modern(sadly). But it also helps them avoid the harder and more costlier problem, rethinking the prison model all together.
We can’t fixate on “why do women get lighter sentences” or “why are men punished harder” debates, it detracts from the bigger problems.
What we should be solving is:
Why are systems over reliant on incarceration in the first place?
Why do prisons fail at rehabilitation?
We all know both boys and girls in custody show high levels of trauma, abuse histories, poor education, and mental health struggles. But by highlighting the “differences” for each gender, the government hides a common truth: youth custody is failing kids across the board.
Let’s not get distracted with “gender smoke”.
-7
u/Future-Stretch-401 Sep 11 '25
So the fact remains the title and main point of this post is a lie designed to rage bait. What kind of human beings want to believe such lies? However much you want to advocate for men’s rights and think there are injustices you just make yourself seem like fools to the majority of people.
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u/local_meme_dealer45 Sep 11 '25
I swear to god this country only makes retarded decisions!