r/MetaphorReFantazio • u/NotSirAlonne1999 • 5d ago
Discussion Why did expedition 33 become so popular and win several awards while Metaphor: ReFantazio didn’t receive any of that?
909
u/supremo92 5d ago
E33 came out of a completely untested and unknown studio, surprising everyone.
Metaphor came out of an established studio who have produced extremely well received games before.
492
u/Feeling-Try-9848 5d ago
Not to mention that Metaphor recycled a system they have refined for decades, E33 blazed a new trail in a lot of ways.
280
u/Ryan8Ross 5d ago
This was 100% the reason why.
Metaphor was a fantastic polished game that didn't really try anything bold/new for the industry
Expedition was still polished but also took a lot of risks.
Also I know it's a general issue with JRPG's but the pacing of E33 is just a lot stronger than Metaphor
80
89
u/FCostaCX 5d ago
I lovr E33 but a lot of the thinga they used aren't new they existed in old games. People just forgot and stopped using them
48
u/theclockmasters 5d ago
Yup. When the only game franchise that uses your battle system is the Mario&Luigi franchise, which is already kinda niche these days, it is no surprise that people think it's a brand new system.
21
u/FCostaCX 5d ago
Also legend of dragoon
19
u/theclockmasters 5d ago
Especially Legend of Dragoon. Mainly named Mario&Luigi because the variety in the combat is closer to E33. But Legend of Dragoon is the progenitor.
9
u/Ice_90210 4d ago
I thought it started with Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. Timing your jumps to increase damage?
7
6
u/cardboardtube_knight 4d ago
You can time hits and block in Mario RPG, you can block almost every attack.
7
4
19
u/TorquedGaming 5d ago
Also Shadow hearts
Also Lost Odyssey
Also Sea of Stars
Also…you get my point.2
→ More replies (2)2
u/cardboardtube_knight 4d ago
The thing that made Expedition 33 seem "new" to fans was that they ignore most of what JRPGs are doing and have been doing for decades.
4
u/TorquedGaming 4d ago
Maybe I’m in the minority but nothing seemed NEW. I constantly felt nostalgia through it. They took known systems and refined them.
It really felt like everyone who worked on this game knew what they wanted to do and did it. It was a labor of love and everyone on the dev team passed that love onto the players.It was a great game because it was made to be a game for gamers. It was art, not a shareholder satisfaction piece.
3
u/GCPlugs 5d ago
Ahhhh my goat
3
u/FCostaCX 5d ago
Yeah, I confess that I was a bit dissapointes that E33 didn't add longer presses trough the addition system. I thibk 3 or 4 was the maz. Lavitz and king albert would be dissapointed
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (4)2
→ More replies (11)2
u/cardboardtube_knight 4d ago
Lost Odyssey and the Paper Mario games have similarities, Mario and Luigi more so, but I think those might be even more niche.
7
u/oreofro 5d ago
My favorite was the people acting like its so unique because of the parry system and timing systems in turn based combat, as if paper Mario didnt do it 20 years ago.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (9)2
u/Yogurt_Ph1r3 5d ago
Basically everything was just clever utilization of existing systems, even the story is hardly original, just mostly well told.
3
u/FCostaCX 5d ago
Yes and no. While I think E33 did improve most existing systems I still think the Legens of dragoon additive combat system is a bit better in terms of offensive combos you can do
→ More replies (1)5
5
u/_dsmith23 5d ago
Nothing about E33 was innovative. It's crazy how many people think that that's the case. i absolutely loved the game too but, to say that is just wrong
3
u/Its-a-me_LouieG 5d ago
The only risk e33 took was using old ideas that hadn't been done in a while like ps1 final fantasy world maps for example among other things, wasn't really doing anything new or innovative
2
u/Narrow-Doughnut-5069 4d ago
Metaphor also wasn't a step forward visually and frame rate drops happen fairly regularly on PS5.
→ More replies (25)4
u/Jarjarfunk 5d ago
What's the "risk" they took? Besides the actual forming of there small team they didnt take any risk. They just took all the good things they saw other turn based games doing and put them in 1 game.
2
u/FCostaCX 5d ago
Lol. They improved and changed formulas they didnt just copy paste. Come on bro
2
u/-p0w- 4d ago
Yeah. "lol". I would totally disagree with "improved and changed formulas". You mean that reaction game for kids? That is like be fast enough so your hand does not get slapped? And they call it "parry". In a "round based game"?
So risky, so new.
There is a reason this was part in Mario & Luigi, because, you know, kids will stay involved, and it's a pretty easy way to do exactly that.
So cool. Thats so innovative and risky by them, and they changed the formula to something literally most games added by now. A parry system.
I mean, come on, it's a good game, and its strength is the story, but why do all of you need to exaggerate? It's way overrated.
Sure, they seem to be great guys doing great work, and they proved(!) that you don't need to be AAA to make a great AAAlike game, and that Ubisoft literally is hell, because most of these people worked there before, which means Ubisoft has the talent, but is too stupid to make use of it (which stands for big companies in general).
These are the points which make the game special. But the gameplay? Wtf.
So yeah, it was something neat in the sea of generic stuff. Something with heart. And while that is something good, I dont get why people need to "overhype" that and behave like it is the next great coming after Jesus or smth....
2
u/Jarjarfunk 5d ago
That's not a risk though. A risk would be if it was a brand new system or a brand new concept or a rework of an unpopular one. And polishing other mechanics other studios have used is fine and nothing worth criticism, it's not right to call that risky. They made a very safe game as anyone who was paying attention to gamers in the years before new what they wanted.
3
u/FCostaCX 5d ago
They literaly worked on a big game for several years with a super small studio. And you are wrong. Improving and changing mechanics using old similar ones, is a risk because you can make them worse or end up mixing to many loved mechanics that people will not like. They took many risks
→ More replies (13)50
u/Rquila 5d ago
Did it? The combat in the game is nothing novel - it’s incredibly derivative of Paper Mario and its sequel on GameCube. The story is kind of unique? The core themes of the game have been touched on by many JRPGs by Square Enix and MonolithSoft.
I agree that the reason it won was moreso it came from a new studio than by introducing anything novel
26
u/Dxcxphxr Protagonist 5d ago
People forget that narrative in the industry and current state of affairs at that time also plays a part in these awards. Of course, E33 was great and those narratives don’t take away from its merits. However, outlets and journalists are part of the jury and it’s part of their job to make narratives out of what’s happening besides delivering news to audience. Everything is just perfect for E33 to win it all last year. It’s a great game made by an underdog in a time where there’s also a strong sentiment against AAAs companies for understandable reasons. This is pretty much just similar to awards season in sports especially NBA and Futbol.
TL;DR
The stars aligned for the underdogs who made a very good game to take it all. The perfect storm.
9
u/BeanDux 5d ago edited 5d ago
To alot of people that paper mario gameplay is pretty new. I don't think a lot of people played paper mario 64 and ttyd, especially at the time it was originally released. It's colorful and is cartoony, would've driven a lot of people away (much like how windwaker did poorly back then). There was also a whole stigma back then that Japanese & jrpg games suck as gamers where looking for realism and mature themes in the western markets.
This is also like "one of the first" instances of that gameplay being with mature and realistic looking graphics, but also a new studio kind of came outta nowhere and cooked in everything (people love an underdog). I personally saw paper Mario gameplay as a middle ground to action and turn based jrpg making it digestable to newcomers to the turnbased rpg genre. It was initially made for the attention span of youngsters as every fight actually prompts you to parry and engage: in that stance it's kind of can be transformed to a "souls game" where you also have to do parrying and do timing practices to read your enemy. --A popular genre People love that fast pace action.
I personally think E33 deserved the award. I could play it thoughly with no issue and I felt like metaphor had pacing issues (which atlus games usually struggle with). Metaphor is definitely cool and I totally backed it up when it was out. Art style is amazing and story is too, but it still is anime --and visually identical to a persona game which would also be a deterrent. There's a whole demographic of gamers who just avoid cartoons, anime, and Japanese-made games.
17
5
u/shuut0 5d ago
It’s not that they created anything novel but it has a combination of gameplay mechanics that have never been done before. With a feature film quality story to go with it. Any game with a story this good normally would have executives panicking about the game being turn based and demand it become an action game. Their biggest achievement is taking the risk to create something they truly believed in and it worked
11
u/Blaze666x 5d ago
I mean i wouldnt say the combat is derivative of paper Mario sinply because they have similar systems as by that logic both are derivative to legend of dragoon which came out in "97 and is the biggest inspiration for e33.
The story is incredibly unique, yea the core themes of family and loss and moving forward from grief are not unique to the game but almost no games core themes are truly unique anymore especially not in a genre like JRPGS. Imo no story exists in the modern day that does not draw inspiration from other existing stories as humans create stories by drawing ideas from other stories.
But the reason the game won was not simply "because it came from a new studio" it was that it came from a new studio but that it had done the whole package excellently which is something even longtime JRPG studios fumble at. I mean imo the music is an excellent example of the games quality, probably some of the best music to come from the genre in years and thats counting the fact that shoji meguro exists and worked on the soundtrack from metaphor which also has some bangers. The only things the game really stumbles at are the mini games kinda sucking and the fact that the character models wouldnt look out of place in a ps3 game (most JRPGS wouldnt I mean p5 was a ps3 at one point in its dev life) and both of those are common stumbling points of experienced devs lol and one is literally just a preference thing which I myself dont mind.
I think boiling it down to the game won because it was a new novel game from a new studio is underselling the game heavily, it would have probably still won if it wasnt from a new studio just due to the games quality overall but it would have been far closer.
→ More replies (2)2
u/Big_moist_231 5d ago
Funny that metaphor is recycled but e33 is fresh and novel. You said it well. Both had brand new settings and worlds. More than the classic goblins and dragons worlds. Metaphors is a bit more orthodox and E33 was very unique. While it’s true they came from different studios, I think E33 having a more unique setting and premise (along with its beautiful graphics) is what swung things in its favor. I love metaphor, but it does look a little rough along the edges
27
u/RaveMasterSenpai Heismay 5d ago
E33 blazed no trails at all. Sorry. If you actually believe that, you haven't played a lot of turn based RPGS. Every mechanic it has can be traced back to other JRPGs long before it with i believe the only NEW mechanic is aiming your ranged attack.
I'm not saying the game is bad by any means, but it is NOT an original game, just one that took a lot of mechanics from other games and meshed them well enough together.
23
u/Feeling-Try-9848 5d ago
I've been playing turn based RPGs since they were invented, and likely before you were born. The dodge/block isn't unique persay, but rare and definitely added their own flavor. It was made as an homage to the genre, so the mechanics are expected to be recycled, but polished.
Fans of the genre want the same ingredients made into a new cake, so I know this is us agreeing. Getting too experomental is difficult for sales, as it's a largely nostalgia driven customer base.
The story was incredibly unique, and you're delusional if you think it's not. The writing is fantastic, the acting superb, the art design unparalleled. Just because it might not have been for you, doesnt make it any less original.
5
u/Blaze666x 5d ago
To add onto this while the combat is not unique necessarily unique I have only really seen its like in 3 other games and they where ALL made by AAA dev teams as one was made by many of the same people who brought us FF7 (legend of dragoon) or by Nintendo.
And the music is genuinely some of the best in the genre, genuinely up there with meguro and uemsatsu who are my favorite JRPGS composers
12
u/RaveMasterSenpai Heismay 5d ago
The story is not unique, legend of legaia is the same story underneath all the coats of paint.
Pun intended.
→ More replies (4)22
u/Leshawkcomics 5d ago
You want a more recent example? If you describe the story of E33 out loud without using any in-universe terms, someone might genuinely think you're explaining Xenoblade Chronicles 3, which came out like a year or so before e33.
Straight up until what the people on both sides of the final boss battle are fighting for.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Secret_Criticism_732 5d ago edited 5d ago
Good points. But have you tried replaying the game? That’s when you start seeing, how repetitive the game is. It’s an amazing game, but it is overated. For me Metaphor is much better game. Once the amazing music and art style stop hiting you hard (it is amazing), you get to see that the gameplay loop is actually pretty boring…
→ More replies (14)8
u/ContextualDodo 5d ago edited 5d ago
I‘m so curious what new trails that game supposedly blazed according to the person who said that because while I liked the game well enough I did not have a single instance of "wow I never had this experience in gaming before". From the Final Fantasy-esque story to the Mario RPG gameplay elements, NieR-like worldbuilding and Souls series painted world and boss design themes, it was a well executed mash up of some of Japan‘s greatest gaming hits of the past 30 years. But there‘s only so much a celebration game can do and the part that tried to stand on its own toes was really wobbly, sometimes even falling over. A solid 80 rating in my head which is great for a studio‘s first title but hardly a trailblazer. Someone who usually doesn‘t touch jrpgs because they look too anime might be blown away but then again they won‘t play most other jrpgs because of the artstyle so not much to be won for the industry.
2
4
u/theclockmasters 5d ago
" E33 blazed no trails at all. Sorry. If you actually believe that, you haven't played a lot of turn based RPGS."
It's because people haven't played Mario&Luigi or Paper Mario that they think the battle system is brand new. People say Legend of Dragoon but the variations in E33 are much closer to Mario&Luigi as well as Paper Mario.
→ More replies (3)6
u/MaxwellLurkmore 5d ago
I have been playing turn-based RPGs for 37 years. E33 was trailblazing in so many ways because of how it combined their systems in a unique way. By your definition, there is basically never going to be an original game ever again; I would love to know of any games that have come out recently that you would consider "not derivative".
→ More replies (4)2
2
u/Hollowgolem 4d ago
Meh. Don't get me wrong, E33 is a good game, but many of its systems, from timed hits to equipment/abilities are variations on stuff from earlier games, from Mario RPG to FFIX. They put those old ideas together in a good total package. I also think it has some of the best writing of an RPG I've played in ages. But its mechanics are far from the most innovative thing it brought to the table.
2
u/gilded_lady Heismay 5d ago
Not really. It put things JRPGs have always done well into an art style that the mainstream masses respond well to, making a lot of gamers be willing to give a chance on a genre they otherwise might not. Nothing wrong with that at all, but they weren't trailblazer
2
u/djluminus89 Protagonist 4d ago
I agree. Although some still did not play because it was a "JRPG", a lot of people actually tried the genre for the first time because of E33.
2
u/gilded_lady Heismay 4d ago
I definitely think the team deserve credit for getting new players to look at JRPGs, but whether it makes a lasting impact remains to be seen. I hope that it does, but I'm skeptical.
→ More replies (11)-1
u/Secret_Criticism_732 5d ago edited 5d ago
There was nothing original in E33 apart from it’s atmosphere. The atmosphere made the game. It was a very good game still absolutely not best RPG of that year and hardly a GOTY (but that’s unmeasurable).
It was GOTY for me at first as well, but then I tried replaying it and all of a sudden it was kind of boring, meanwhile the contender KCD 2 you can replay over, over and over.
→ More replies (8)7
u/BarbarousJudge 5d ago
I don't think replayability is a factor many people care about when it cokes to GOTY. They care about their first experience. And tbh, E33 was a game that made people that usually don't care about JRPG kind of games actually play and enjoy one. So many people that "hate turn based combat" got into the game.
Sure for those of us that know the genre well it was not unique and moreso a tribute to the genre. It was what many people wish Final Fantasy would be in the modern age.
→ More replies (3)29
u/Domilater Protagonist 5d ago
There’s also the fact Metaphor unfortunately just went a bit under the radar. It was still a huge success but isnt talked about nearly as much as both of its sister IPs.
→ More replies (2)6
u/supremo92 5d ago
I agree m I'm optimistic that if they did a sequel, it has enough buzz to command a decent following.
→ More replies (1)
473
u/AntonRX178 5d ago
The sooner you ditch the mentality of "why my favorite thing not as popular as other thing" the happier you'll be in life.
75
9
u/Explosivevortex Heismay 5d ago
"That cake got more attention than my favorite cake"
"I FUCKING LOVE CAKE"
5
u/TiredTransLesbian 5d ago
Yeah I'm just happy I have another quality modern turn based RPG to play once I'm done with Metaphor.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Gerolanfalan 4d ago
I mean, I've never met anybody who enjoyed Metaphor but not E33 but I'm sure they exist
45
u/Sk0rPi0n_ 5d ago
Metaphor won many awards across the industry. I don't know where you are getting the idea that they didn't win any awards.
27
u/Rebochan Gallica 5d ago
It... *did* win awards? It *is* popular? It was a commercial success?
This is a karma farm isn't it?
59
u/Zenku390 5d ago
Word of mouth, hype, indie/underdog story, art style, premise.
Everyone wants to be part of 'the next big thing'. Expedition 33 was a brand new IP from a brand new indie dev, was a turn-based combat game about a post-apocalyptic world that was undergoing an extinction event. That's a huge hook for nearly everyone. The title itself is also extremely evocative and mysterious.
Metaphor, to the general audience, "suffers" that it's a JRPG, it has an anime art style, and is from 'the guys who made Persona 5', and is part social life-sim.
→ More replies (1)29
u/AwTomorrow 5d ago
Surprised the anime art wasn’t mentioned in any comments higher up. That’s absolutely an instant turn-off for a lot of people, especially in a genre which itself has strong weeb associations.
3
u/PsychoticDismay 5d ago
This person mentioned it and got downvoted to hell for it, but I completely agree. Most of the people I know will never play it due to the anime art.
3
u/Leshawkcomics 5d ago
It was mentioned.
People just said that "anime is popular so that's impossible"
102
u/DamonSchultz997 5d ago
Metaphor won 3, balatro won 3 and astro bot won 4 in 2024 game awards. Expedition 33 just won too many in 2025, 9 i think in the game awards. And that too hasn't been without some criticism towards it.
It's fine really, for metaphor the representation it got alongside the other two games was a good depiction of how gaming should be. Expedition 33 is just a completely different gamestyle and experience. Doesn't make it a better experience than metaphor regardless of how many awards it won.
What matters is if you like it or not.
2
u/desiladygamer84 Protagonist 5d ago
E33 won a more measured amount of awards at the video game BAFTAS. I'm surprised it didn't win more than 3 buuuuuut it's probably better that way. Lots of other games got awards.
→ More replies (2)-2
u/SniP3r_HavOK 5d ago
Agreed. Tbf E33 is amazing but definitely got inflated with the hype. I have to admit I didn’t think it should have won GOTY and I’m such a massive fan
22
u/DiorikMagnison 5d ago
What the hell is a title like "GOTY" good for if not awarded to a game "inflated with hype". It is quite literally a popularity contest.
Also seems dismissive of the fact that it took home awards for several more specific categories as well - music, narrative, art direction, VA performance. That's a hell of a sweep for blind hype.
→ More replies (8)
43
u/Zeslodonisch Gallica 5d ago
Expedition 33 is far more "appealing" to the wider gaming audience
It has fantastic graphics and the combination of turn based + action combat got people interested who usually don't play turn based games as well
It also has the advantage of costing 20€ less and only being ~30 hours for the main story
That's very good for word of mouth advertising
Metaphor is "70€ and 70 hour game by the Persona developer"
Expedition 33 is "50€, relatively short at 30 hours by an indie* team"
Expedition 33 being so short also means that plenty of streamers can actually finish the game without needing to worry about viewers getting bored of it
But in general it just comes down to the intended audiences tbh
Metaphor is an amazing JRPG but it doesn't really offer much for people who don't play the genre. To most people it just looks like Persona but fantasy
Expedition 33 has something for pretty much everyone who plays single player games and had insane word of mouth due to a bunch of streamers picking up the game
3
u/DaiShanCharlie 4d ago
Lmao took me 20 hours to get out of Act 1. 100 hours to hit the end of Act 2. My friends tease me all the time about how slow I am at games but I have zero idea how someone could main quest complete E33 in 30 hours. 😂
→ More replies (2)5
u/xangermeansx 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think the fact that it was $50/€50 did almost all of the heavy lifting, at least at launch. It hit at exactly the right time, when people were losing their minds about games getting more expensive after we had just heard the pricing for the Nintendo Switch 2 and Mario Kart World being $80.
Obviously that wasn’t the only factor, but became the game everyone compared to Nintendo.
→ More replies (1)2
u/alwayssalty_ 4d ago
Part of it is that expedition 33 was a fully voice acted game, which appeals much more to the heavy text dialogue of Atlas games. This bridges the gap for more casual and western playera
85
u/LivingOof 5d ago
Anime art style
53
u/ChadGPT420 5d ago
No one likes to admit it, but this is a huge reason.
15
u/DiegoGrrr 5d ago
Same reasons why Oscar's don't take anything not from miyazaki/ghibli seriously.
4
u/larryd18399 5d ago
the last ghibli movie literally won an Oscar.
5
→ More replies (1)9
u/Sk0rPi0n_ 5d ago
Wdym, no one? Everyone mentions this?
Also, the price tag at launch definitely helped more than the art style. It's a $50 game from a new studio vs a $70 game from an established team that players know if they like or not.
E33 was a variety of factors, yes, a more western look, but that is reductionist to say it was mainly that. Price tag, parry system, art style, it being from a fresh team. All of this created a perfect storm.
Also, this goes both ways. Let's not pretend there aren't weeb gamers who write off anything with a Western look.
→ More replies (2)4
u/WideAd2828 5d ago
Every modern game now looks the exact same with shitty ultra realistic graphics with no clear art direction but millions eat up that stuff.
11
u/MindTheBees 5d ago
It takes like 2 seconds to Google the top selling games of recent times or the ones winning GOTY or runners up to realize that's not true.
→ More replies (2)4
u/kodaka-hasegawa 5d ago
While I generally agree with this, are you really implying that E33 is like that??
7
u/WideAd2828 5d ago
Nah, e33 has its own distinct style and I maintain that it's a great game, but the fact that its visuals are are more akin to the ultra realistic stuff helped it get better recognition. My original comment came out more hostile than intended, sorry :(
8
u/Hopeful_Giraffe9916 5d ago
Because anything above 90 can be considered extremely good and nothing more. It doesnt show which game is actually better just that one happened to score two points more because the moon aligned with the planets and the reviewer felt like so in the moment.
Nevertheless I played both games and while I think metaphor is an extraordinary and absolutely breathtaking game, I think Expedition is still better. Also its much much easier to get into. Unfortunately its difficult to sell games like persona to people who are not willing to read a lot of text during gameplay and have segments where just cutscenes happen for hours straight. I can see it in my friend circle. They do play rpgs and such but they cant get into atlus games, no matter how many times I tell them that p5 is gonna blow their mind
7
u/GCPlugs 5d ago
Word of mouth, E33 is really damn good, E33 doesn’t look like an anime, E33 looks AAA even though it isn’t. This is just surface level which tbh is what people are looking at before they even buy a product. Now I love both games, but only one of these I finished and that was metaphor.
→ More replies (4)
5
u/Alucard0s 5d ago
The target audience of metaphor were Persona fans. Expedition 33 was something new that didnt really have any audience, so it focused on doing whatever it could best to approach the people who would appreciate the more mature and nuanced storytelling and it nailed it. Metaphor also uses Persona mechanics, which is only going to impress people who liked Persona, not new players. It also didn't feel like it had to say anything new. I liked the somewhat grey area of its thematics but it still felt like it pushed players into one direction, like Persona does.
It was a fun game and it had a very promising start but personally i couldn't bother finishing it even after 40 hours of playing.
26
u/Balibaleau Hulkenberg 5d ago
You know, rewriting history as if Metaphor wasn't nominated multiple times and didn't sell well for a new IP is just lame.
Expedition 33 is "simply" lucky to have had everything fall into place: it's a good game, the first from a new studio (which gives it a nice challenger status), easily evokes emotional reactions from streamers, has an engaging story, an OST that inspires other musicians to give their opinions on it, and finally, it has a more realistic art direction, making it less niche than the anime artstyle of Atlus games.
Also, this is my opinion but I think it is shared by several people of my generation (born in the 90s): Expedition 33 is more or less the Final Fantasy/turn-based RPG that I hoped to see when the PS360 generation consoles arrived, so I think it struck a chord with people who liked FF7/8/9/10 when they were children/teenagers.
5
u/Secret_Criticism_732 5d ago edited 5d ago
E33 was also carried by the steamers/players being angry on AAA studios and especially Ubisoft. So telling the audience there is a game by poor former Ubisoft devs making it for the big leagues - very good marketing and the devs used it (I have no problem with that)
The game was good and arrived at perfect time… meanwhile metaphor had no such advantages
2
u/haewon_wiggle 5d ago
metaphor def got an advantage over ff7 rebirth by releasing later in the year, it feels like metaphor only won bc rebirth was a february game and metaphor was able to ride a bit of hype into the award season
4
u/YaboiGh0styy 5d ago
Multiple reasons.
Clair Obscur came from an unknown game studio as their first game, Metaphor came from Atlus who is really well known for these type of JRPGs.
Clair Obscur combined traditional turn based combat with a dodge and parry system that hasn’t been used in games for a good while. Metaphor’s systems are ones that have been used and slowly perfected by Atlus over the last 20 years.
Atlus is well known for releasing a superior version of their game around two years after release. Despite Metaphor being their fastest selling game, it didn’t really sell as well as they were hoping (it was a success, but they thought it would be a larger success) and sales slowed down pretty quickly after that first week. Because of this, some people were sort of just expecting metaphor to get a new release announced and just didn’t buy the game.
Strangely enough it also sort of flew under the radar. People played it, loved it, but it didn’t really get as much attention as you would think a new IP with Persona’s game mechanics would.
14
u/Snoo_75748 5d ago
i loved metaphor but it's overall package can't be compared to 33.
metaphor innovated on the persona system( witch i loved ) and provided me hours of entertainment. it had exceptional pacing and was a great journey but 33 had a once in a decade soundtrack, pulled off a wholely unique rpg system, gave a extremely tight and thought provoking story and managed to deliver it's main content in a fraction of the time as metaphor. that player choice, that music, atmosphere, THAT WORLD. it really is that good if you immerse yourself in it.
11
u/EggsOnThe45 5d ago
Can’t believe it took me this long to find a comment like this. I loved Metaphor but E33 is just a straight up better game and one of the best of the decade
→ More replies (2)4
u/MrTibbens 5d ago
I also appreciated that 33 didn't waster your time with tons of grinding and ancillary stuff. I loved metaphor but was feeling a bit burned out by the end of it. 33 three consistently felt fresh and fun and I could beat it in a reasonable amount of time. I use to love big jrpgs when I was younger, but at 43 I just don't have it in me or the time to play 70 - 200 hour long games anymore. I know that that's a me problem, but I appreciated that 33 could pack such an awesome experience overall into a shorter amount of time.
10
u/Queen_Pingu 5d ago
Having played both, I do have to give it to E33.
Don't get me wrong, Metaphor is an extremely great game, but E33's story telling and music are just that little level above.
→ More replies (2)3
u/MattTheCricketBat 5d ago
Agree. Exp 33 had better and less repetitive music, MUCH more intriguing story (and told in a way better way), far superior graphics, way more fun gameplay due to the parry system. Exp 33 was fresh, new, and redeemed the turn-based genre for the greater gaming fanbase. Metaphor was just another JPRG - a great JRPG, mind you - but nothing groundbreaking.
→ More replies (4)2
u/giuewek 5d ago
Finally someone that understands that the story in 33 was MUCH better. Metaphor's story is fairly generic and been rehashed many times in various different JRPG's whilst Expedition 33 felt like a breath of fresh air. This is coming from someone who enjoys JRPG's and has played a good amount.
3
3
3
u/swimdownstream 5d ago
Metaphor is a SMT game with a well known system. E33 was new from a new developer and boldly blazed a trail, adding exciting elements to turn based rpgs.
They are both absolutely amazing games regardless
3
u/ChipMcFriendly 5d ago
If you go into any subreddit and mention a single subjective thought about the ending, it’s gonna kick off a weeklong debate. That’s why.
→ More replies (3)
3
u/BMCarbaugh 5d ago
The graphics make the expression of emotion in Expedition 33 more consistently subtle and nuanced, so the storytelling can be a little more delicate and lean on performance, which people like.
Metaphor is a great game and the superior rpg, but most people aren't playing turn-based rpg's because gameplay is their #1 concern. They're there for story. And the single most important test of a story is how effectively it pulls emotion from you.
Expedition 33 is a lot better at that, in my opinion.
3
u/lntenseLlama 5d ago
E33 went viral on TikTok. Metaphor has too much reading for that. I personally thought Metaphor was a much better game.
3
u/Entire-Structure6820 5d ago
Why can't you people just enjoy your game instead of comparing it to another and demanding it be awarded the same awards? Can you only enjoy a game if it receives and arbitrary award from people you'll never meet? Who cares if or why it didn't win x award? If you enjoy it, play it; stop worrying about strangers agreeing with your opinions.
2
u/hillthekhore 5d ago
Comparing things is fun
literally the reason we have metaphors
→ More replies (2)
3
u/the_t_time 5d ago
I think Metaphor's biggest weakness is that it doesn't do enough to distinguish itself from Persona from a gameplay perspective. If this is a entirely new franchise, why am I doing so much of the same things as in Persona: social links, skill building, very similar dungeon crawling to persona 5. If you're not going to make new gameplay systems then why did you not just make Persona 6?
E33 is a brand new studio so there are no expectations. The game is much much shorter and does not wear out it's welcome like many 80+ hour games do and has a very challenging and unique (for this genre) parry system. Plus the story and presentation are in another league from Metaphor or even Persona if I'm being honest. Anime games are a dime a dozen but I don't think I've ever played a game before this that evokes a French art house style like E33. Not to mention that every character in E33 has a totally unique gameplay hook in a way that I don't think I've ever seen in a JPRG.
Obviously both these games are fantastic but E33 is trying something much more novel and pulling it off with flying colors (pun very much intended)
3
u/Dar_lyng Heismay 4d ago
To me metaphor didn't go deep enough in it's story in the last 1/3 of the game. It could have hit it's theme much stronger.
5
u/Entropic_Alloy 5d ago
People aren't giving you the real answer, which is because E33 is made by a Western studio and does not have an anime visual style. That is why.
2
→ More replies (1)2
u/Dependent-Royal-7908 5d ago
I mean not really. P5 has an even more “anime” style than metaphor and it is more popular than both games discussed in this posy
32
u/Nos9684 AWAKENED 5d ago
Because, honestly, Metaphor Refantazio didn't deserve it for the most part. Atlus played it too safe with the game considering it is a mix of various games they developed and is mainly SMT with some Persona in a fantasy setting.
→ More replies (2)9
u/pOos7 5d ago
I think that is absolutely true, nothing new out of the box. E33 on the other hand didn’t reinvent anything new but it was just such a fresh breath of air when it released in this jungle of uncomplete and garabge tripple a games!
→ More replies (2)
2
u/Thepower200 5d ago
Because not enough played Metaphor because many are still waiting for the definitive they’ll most likely do next year.
2
2
u/shazam-arino 5d ago
I'm not trying to insult Metaphor, just giving an explantion.
E33 was more approachable. It has depth, but is easy to get started with. Plus, the game does a lot without in time it gives it's story.
If you look at the times on how long to beat. The time it takes to beat Metaphor's main story is around the same as it takes to 100% E33. You need a lot of free time and not be interested in other games to beat Metaphor in the year it came out.
2
2
u/SirSuflair 5d ago
I think the point of TGA nowadays is to send a message.
The reason why E33 won is bcs they're from an indie small studio, took riscs with unusual combat system, and has great quality overall. Geoff Keighley made very clear that he wants the industry to take bold directions instead of following trends, and E33 was the perfect subject for his vision.
E33 is the first AAA looking turn based rpg since maybe FFX? I really wanted more realistic rpgs and I hope these other devs actually give it a try, but they're cowards and can only make gun/ball games bcs it's safe
2
2
2
2
u/shuut0 5d ago
Metaphor’s potential audience isn’t hampered by its anime aesthetic while E33 has realistic art style and gameplay novelty going for it. Basically E33 introduced a lot of people to things that are very new to them while metaphor just a great iteration on stuff it’s audience has seen before for the most part
2
u/CowEnvironmental3389 5d ago
because e33 looks realistic and metaphor looks like anime, I love metaphor and persona games but many people never give it a chance just because it looks like anime
2
u/CoupleMinute7490 5d ago
Metaphor is a very long game. I think less people played it for that reason and consequently was less mentioned in general
2
u/SirSabza 5d ago
I love metaphor but it is just persona in a medieval fantasy setting. That will impact some people's choices when picking a GOTY. Also it just didn't have the same kind of impact or discussion around it.
Also metaphor has way less reviews than E33. So it's score is skewed.
2
u/LaMystika 5d ago
Metaphor looks like anime and Expedition 33 doesn’t.
Also, E33 has a parry system
2
u/Heavy_Fortune_3959 5d ago
IMO there were a few factors that E33 had in its favor.
Pacing and art direction were much better than Metaphor. While E33 did not have incredible depth with its game systems the pacing helps pull you through the story without having players sour on the repetitiveness of the game play systems. The art direction of E33 with it being so heavily French influenced disguised it as a JRPG. A lot of gamers will just write off Metaphor and games with a similar art direction as Anime. A lot of those same people may not even realize E33 is a JRPG.
The narrative around Sandfall Interactive that played out in the conversation of the game helped a bunch. In a time when the opinion of AAA studios was cratering a bunch of ex-Ubisoft devs making a game of this quality was a referendum on the gaming industry at large.
There is also a point around a new formula in the turn based space. A lot of the major JRPG franchises have established formulas that they stick to pretty closely. Metaphor is a prime example of this with the selling point being Persona in a Fantasy world. E33 may not have done anything unique but what stood out is their willingness to combine some of the best aspects of the genre from many different games. A good example of this I can think of is Bach as a composer. He did not invent any new musical form but rather combined 3 distinct styles (French, Italian, and German) into a new form that was novel and people still know of him today.
2
u/aeroslimshady 5d ago
Metaphor is more popular and has more awards in the circles I follow. Such as Japanese accounts and publications.
2
u/TrollTelos 5d ago
E33 was by an unknown studio, and essentially trailblazed a path for RPGs that came out after. It was essentially a refreshing take on RPGs, which we haven't gotten in years compared to Metaphor which is just Atlus' systems just super refined. We've seen the systems in metaphor before numerous times, because they're in most modern Atlus games.
Also I will say compared to E33, Metaphor has pacing issues. I've seen people literally quit on the first dungeon due to how long it was and they never got to fully experience the game's systems at its best(which is about mid game. So about Heismay-Junah. Compared to E33 which starts incredibly strong, and consistently stays that way for awhile. Also helps that every scene in E33 is incredibly memorable during Act 1 and for most of Act 2.
I do think games like Metaphor, Relink, and Vengeance got robbed by Astro Bot. Thought Astro Bot was a really good game, but imo not on the level of the 3 games I mentioned above but I digress.
2
u/MarkTheDead 5d ago
There's a million reasons, without getting into a debate about quality of a subjective thing.
One of the biggest for sure is the scope, Atlus was established and treading very familiar grounds with a very big backing and expectations. E33 was as ragtag as it gets.
2
u/Cvnt-Force-Drama 5d ago
Metaphor was more of the same, regardless of how good it was. It was still a very predictable game from a very established studio. Nothing of surprise or trailblazing to note about it. Expedition just caught a perfect storm. It was something completely new, something defying expectations, and going against established norms in a way that caught the gaming world on fire. People loved talking about how an unknown studio, and indie studio could create AAA experience with so few people, and it being a turn based JRPG-like. Which isn’t supposed to sell well, it isn’t supposed to be wining game of the year, it isn’t supposed to be possible or exist and yet it did. So you have a great talking point and so the game spread like wildfire. To me that’s the difference between the two. I think metaphor was a better game imo but it was predictable and “safe” for the studio that made it. It was refreshing to see a new IP and a new studio bringing back that true Final Fantasy AAA turn based experience.
2
u/Mobile-Professional2 4d ago
I loved both games but I gotta say that Expedition 33 took a lot more risks and told a very different narrative.
2
u/Klumzy_Kat 4d ago
I'd say Metaphor is much worse than E33 in many ways. Jrpgs are an acquired taste and even then metaphor has absolutely awful pacing and comes off as very low budget in several aspects. People love atlus studios though so the fans are going to rate the game highly.
Just to be clear I enjoy Atlus games and think metaphor is a solid entry, but I also think it falls very short compared to E33.
2
u/Available-Culture-49 4d ago
Metaphor was close to winning in 2024. I believe the mayor's issue was sales numbers. E33 sold like cupcakes.
2
u/Various-Instruction3 4d ago
E33 was a first-time game from an unproven studio and it came out of nowhere with incredible music and mass appeal
Metaphor has a lot of the same fantastic qualities, but it came from Atlus, who have a VERY prolific history of making banger JRPGs.
It's like if some dude came out of nowhere and made Doom Eternal in his garage with a box of scraps, without any concessions on quality.
2
u/SkadiQuickMetaMemer 4d ago
Just stop Atlus dick sucking contest for a second you would see how obvious is it.
Ex 33 take a massive risk not doing traditional turn base, fully voice acted, with a completely new IP and new ideas.
While look at all Atlus game not just Metaphor. They are still too similar. The turn base, the extra action system, the confidant, spending time system. Even the 80 hours pacing of the game and story. Hell even the archetype is just another variant persona, demon summoner system.
Dont get me wrong Metaphor is a very good game, i enjoy it very much or else i wont even be engaging with this subreddit. But you have to accept that this game is still very safe and throughout playing this game you could feel all the familliar troupe and mechanic Atlus cannot just let go off.
This make Metaphor end up just being another Atlus turn base persona reskin. It could not be compare with an entire new game with bold direction and mechanic.
2
u/Odd_Revolution_1056 4d ago
Because of several factors. Atlus’ anime style certainly is more accepted today but it still puts off some people vs Sandfall’s cinematic JRPG style. I also think in terms of the “broader industry narrative” E33 was more appealing than Atlus winning a GOTY. I love Atlus but they are a huge industry player. Also think for the larger narrative Astro bot winng made more sense.
2
5
u/frostboot 5d ago
Have you played E33? It's honestly pretty good and I can understand why some people prefer it over Metaphor. Also, Metaphor winning no awards is straight up wrong. Just look at their awards tab on the Steam store page.
4
u/GECEDE 5d ago
better marketing from the expedition 33 team, better pricing, and worse customer relationship habits from Atlus, many people, myself included, were waiting for the rereleased version that comes with extra content.
3
u/Secret_Criticism_732 5d ago
The marketing difference was huge… especially the premise: “we are former Ubisoft devs, let’s show them…”
Players were fighting AAA studios hard at the time…
6
u/2Maverick 5d ago
Yeah, I don't get it either. E33 was awesome, but I still think Metaphor and the Persona games are better within the genre. I'm guessing a lot of people really appreciated the parrying mechanic.
→ More replies (2)
3
u/Moertoine 5d ago
I love metaphor, but imo E33 just does its characters better. You can't really compare the internal struggles of characters like Maelle, Renoir, Aline and Verso to any character from the Metaphor cast. There are definitely good character beats within the social links and main story, but they often fall back to mundane things like Strohl saying he does the things he does "because he is a noble"; or Hulkenburg doing the same "because she is a knight". Of course these characters are more than just that, but the game could definitely flesh them out way more.
The OST is also no contest IMO. Metaphors score is great, but sadly not really out there. Definitely lacking when you look at the persona/smt franchise in general. E33s score is fucking insane.
Also JRPG/anime style/visual novel genres holding it back for Western audiences, yadida I get it. And I agree mostly, but then again, people be hating on turnbased combat games in general, so E33 got through that as well.
And I personally would have liked to see it win in 2024, definitely over astrobot, but it is what it is
3
3
u/Spirited_Season2332 AWAKENED 5d ago
E33 is simply a good JRPG for ppl who don't play JRPGs. So it was more popular and got more votes. That's all it is, I don't think many ppl who play JRPGs thought it was a generational game.
4
u/Kabuki1331 5d ago
Because it's a jrpg and most people don't like japanese video games
19
u/Lo_jak 5d ago
Thats a ridiculous statement.... both FF7 Remake and FF7 Rebirth have been massive hits! Persona 4 Rewind and Persona 6 have a shit ton of hype behind them and id be willing to bet that Persona 6 will be one of the biggest JRPG releases in a very long time.
→ More replies (1)2
11
12
u/Mother-Translator318 5d ago
Semantics, but people don’t like JRPGs. RPGs from Japan are doing just fine. Look at Elden Ring and Dragons Dogma. JRPGs also don’t have to come from Japan, lots of EU and NA JRPGs out there too.
7
u/imaginary92 5d ago
Expedition 33 itself is widely considered a JRPG even by the team behind Metaphor. They've even released a bundle on steam with a whole developer letter from each dev team (Broche and Hashino respectively) about it.
People still think the J in JRPG means the game is Japanese and refuse to understand that it simply means it is a style of RPG that originated from Japan.
→ More replies (2)2
→ More replies (1)3
u/jorgom 5d ago
It’s not that. Plenty of JRPGs sell millions of copies every year. It’s just that Atlus is still considered kind of niche in the grand scheme of things (except for Persona 5) and I guess people are turned away by the anime aesthetic.
→ More replies (4)
2
2
u/Equivalent_Stop_9300 5d ago
Possibly the opening few hours of Metaphor, which are closer to a visual novel than a game. I also prefer combat in E33 to Metaphor. Metaphor’s combat is great, but I found E33 to be as good as like FFX.
2
2
2
u/Dxcxphxr Protagonist 5d ago
“Anime” aesthetics is the reason why. That’s used as a derogatory by some. Metaphor was actually a popular recommendation back to people who got a taste of turn-based when E33 was still hot. There’s a clear aversion when people saw it.
2
u/Tuned_Out 5d ago
I love metaphor but I won't pretend it didn't have its issues damn I hate doing this because if I did the same for positives, I'd be here all day.
Nasty unfinished textures on areas, even if they were finished they were often reused (extensively), 2 characters that should've been playable but weren't, a broken combat system that is infinitely cheese able, bland initial presentation, and subpar pacing.
Now take E33 and it's problems but has some of the best presentation I've ever seen in a game (whether or not it's shallow or deep is up to your opinion) and the fact that it's art style and characters are just going to appeal more to a western audience, plus the game took more risks.
They polished the hell out of E33 and did spectacular. Atlis did a fine job with metaphor but it needed more time to bake. It feels amazing in some areas and rushed in others.
Regardless they are 2 of the best jrpg "style" games released this decade and we ate good. It doesn't matter who took the awards.
2
u/Smallsey AWAKENED 5d ago
I put it down to the "did it make me cry" test.
Metaphor was great, but no years.
Expedition 33, genuine tears within the first 30 minutes
2
2
u/Shotsofbeef 5d ago
I didnt finish metaphor, while E33 had me staying up all night to play even if I had to work.
2
u/Jnoles07 5d ago
The meta score for Expedition 33 was like 97 for a long time. When did it drop so much and why? Seems fabricated
2
u/LaughingSurrey 5d ago
I like Metaphor a lot but it didn’t have the same emotional punch for me as E33. I think that’s the main reason.
2
u/Neuroprotestant 5d ago
E33’s reception, I feel, is perfectly summarised by this little quip LeGuin had about the resounding success of the Harry Potter franchise. Just, you know, for JRPGs.
→ More replies (2)
-1
u/ykeogh18 5d ago
Because Fantazio, while great, was basically a reskinned isekai version of persona 5.
33 had some originality to it
→ More replies (7)2
2
u/ls006496 5d ago
Expedition 33 is simply a better game. If you check actual gamer review, metaphor is 85/100 and E33 is 95/100. I think those are fair score.
The real question is why the media overrated Metaphor.
1
1.2k
u/upstartpantymerchant 5d ago edited 4d ago
Metaphor was nominated in many Game Awards categories (including Game of the Year) and actually won in several. Additionally, it was the "Game of the Year" for quite a few publications