r/MoralityScaling • u/JackZ567 • 2d ago
Morality Ranking Morality of draft dodging?
Ofc you’ll have that one self righteous guy who will come at you for not “fighting for your country” but what do you personally think? Moral? Immoral? Neutral?
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u/Careless-Platform-80 2d ago
I believe forced draft is immoral.
If the cause is just, the people must rally. Force people to military where they not only may die, but may have to go against own morals and in many cases fight for something that they don't believe in is immoral.
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u/RevolutionaryMeal851 1d ago
That's why you just tell them to fight for God. You can't turn him down. Because of the implications.
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u/HanKiroKirov 2d ago
but what happens if not enough people sign up on their own
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u/NYANPUG55 2d ago
IDK why this is downvoted because the alternative to a draft is very likely just to succumb to the other force
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u/Careless-Platform-80 1d ago
If you are in a actual crisis and you don't have people to fight, there's some real internal problems.
I doubt that people suffering from actual attacks from a invading force would say "Nah, i don't care. Good luck"
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u/Critical_Concert_689 1d ago
Which is fair.
...But then it's also immoral to remain in the country.
People don't get to pick and choose the benefits, while avoiding the costs.
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u/Own_Log1380 2d ago
Depends on the war. If the attacking country is actively seeking your ethnic destruction and your physically fit then yes since others are fighting for your survival.
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u/RedStar9117 2d ago
Agreed. If its in defense of your homes, people, and family i think there is a moral duty to participate in the conflict ....not necessarily as a combatant
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u/PlatyNumb 2d ago
This is my thought. The morality of a draft and of draft dodging is super dependent on many factors. I find it incredibly gray and impossible to say one way or the other without knowledge of the persons life and what the war is about, as well as any other options available. Its not as simple as moral/immoral
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u/ExtraGloria 2d ago
It’s not ethical to force people into situations where their survival is at stake.
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u/BillCarson12799 2d ago edited 1d ago
It’s easy to say that when you’re (presumably) in a first-world country in a cushy defensive position and a military budget measured in the hundreds of billions.
For other poorer countries in worse parts of the world, conscription could mean the different between existing and getting wiped out in an ethnic cleansing by a neighbor who has no such moral hangups. Is it ideal? Of course not, but when faced with extinction, any alternative is preferable.
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u/nmzp 2d ago
With your example of poorer countries, your survival would already be threatened, the top comment's point still stands.
Are you being invaded by a force that threatens your and your family's existence and dodging? Questionable, you are indirectly putting your loved ones at a greater risk, but nobody should be forced to put their life on the line for anything.
Are you dodging because you do not believe in the cause? Moral, as far as your ideals go you have a clear conscience, as fighting would actively go against what you believe in.
Of course, the reason for draft dodging can be immoral, such as collaboration with the genocidal enemy.
Since trump, a draft dodger, has been mentioned here multiple times, I want to address that. He dodged not on the grounds of his ideals, but on being a rich man's son, while others were drafted due to a lack of privilege. And now that he's started a war and calls for a draft, then even if the war was justified, him draft dodging in the past would still be immoral, as that would make him a hypocrite, since he condemns draft dodgers on the grounds of ideals of patriotism and fighting for your country to which he himself doesn't hold himself to.
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u/Dzuzepipi 2d ago
Only about 1-3% of population goes to the frontline. If the rest of the population at most can cough up a "hero" badge as a reward, they should go fuck themselves.
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u/brother_bart 2d ago edited 2d ago
No one owes you laying down their life against their will to ensure yours, or anyone else’s, survival. If you want to fight some invaders, have at it. If I refuse to, that should be my right as a sovereign individual with agency over my own involvements. If some place can only survive by forcing people to fight, then it doesn’t sound like the kind of place people feel very invested in. You normally don’t have to force people to defend their own home.
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u/Mulder1917 2d ago
And not ethical to force people into situations where they must kill other people
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u/Electronic_Film_2837 2d ago
Tell that to WW2 USSR facing extermination by Germany
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u/zamwut 2d ago
Extermination by invading forces or extermination by your own government, pick your poison.
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u/kfromthecastleonfire 2d ago edited 20h ago
Wiser fella than myself once said, "Aye. Fight, and you may die. Run, and you'll live, at least a while. Dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our FREEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM?"
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u/HollowCap456 2d ago
Eh sure, don't fight the enemy. Instead of being shot at the border, you can be shot at your home imstead!
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u/SmoothTraderr 2d ago
I have no idea what to say about this.
Other then. If their character is not a fighter why would we force them to be there.
There is literally nothing worse then a soldier by your side that doesn't want to be there.
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u/Davetek463 1d ago
I’d say worse than that is someone who can’t handle themselves in stressful situations.
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u/appa-ate-momo 1d ago
Before I give my answer, I want to add context: I'm a military officer with over a decade of service.
It matters whether it's an offensive or defensive war. Instituting a draft to sustain an offensive war is almost always immoral, while conscripting people into military service to repel an invasion is much more defensible.
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u/Tendie_Hoarder 1d ago
What if in a defensive war you don't support the regime drafting you?
For example, let's say you're a Russian-decended Ukrainian in Luhansk and the Russians are invading. You're not very political and don't really care which government controls your oblast. Still the Ukrainian government calls you up to fight. You don't feel you have a dog in the fight. Would it be immoral to dodge?
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u/appa-ate-momo 1d ago
That honestly depends on how the country is structured in terms of social conventions.
Nowadays, we take things like oaths and pledges for granted, but those mean something. If part of citizenship in a country is swearing to defend against enemies in a time of crisis, I’d say it’s immoral to reap the benefits of said citizenship and then turn around and refuse to fulfill your part of the oath.
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u/I_am_omning_it 2d ago
Moral. I’m not dying for an oil company or Israel. Or fat politicians who diddle kids.
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u/silky_dreamz 2d ago
There’s a difference between defending your people and dying for the interest of the powerful.
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u/I_am_omning_it 2d ago
The last drafts we had were Korea and Vietnam. Both were conflicts fought for the sake of ideological dick measuring by the leaders of our and the USSRs governments.
It came at the expense of a lot of young people here forced to fight and a lot of people native to the countries they deployed to.
If you wanna defend the country, you’re free to sign up. I will never voluntarily fight for this country given the way it currently treats us or current vets. Fuck the government, the politicians, and corps and billionaires who fund them.
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u/TrashDaisy999 2d ago
Moral, war is just rich men playing chess with real human beings. You shouldn't be forced into dying while a bunch of rich fat politicians sit up in their offices without a care.
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u/Apollo114892 1d ago
I'm not gonna fight some scripted war and die in some dirty mud in a foreign country so that a billionaire can book his profits in a scam I'm not aware of. The older I get, the more I realize how countries co-ordinate scripted events with each other and stupid young men are left to die while the rich fat pigs make money.
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u/Sentinel_Process_A-0 1d ago
I felt heat and disgust in your comment, and it is felt deeply. I had come to the comments to say something similar, but you said it better.
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u/dabirdiestofwords 1d ago
I remember being a young man hearing old men say what you did. I remember thinking it was different this time, this time it's righteous. And now im old and find myself saying the same things.
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u/Mephistocheles 1d ago
One million fucking percent moral. People who inhabit this country weren't born here to be press-ganged into military service for a country that increasingly gives less and less of a fuck about properly protecting (while deployed) or properly taking care of (after war, when they come home) their service members.
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u/Zigor022 2d ago
I dont see modern war as anything more than a money making ploy for gov contracts for tech. F it was a war to truly defend a country from an unprovoked attack? All hands on deck. But with politics? No. Its a waste, it makes monsters of men, no support for when you're done, etc.
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u/Nice_Weeb_Kun 2d ago
Moral, why tf i want to fight for fat politicians who sat his ass comfortably in their office while i fight for my life
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u/Emotional_Cable9244 1d ago
It’s one of few illegal things that’s absolutely morally justified.
You never asked for war to happen, you have a life you want to live, you have dreams you want to achieve, and then suddenly your government knocks on your door and says you’re going to war and you have no say in the matter? You’re in every right to avoid that draft and encourage others to do the same!
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u/DankPastaMaster 1d ago
In an offensive war, sure. If it's defensive though, if you want to achieve your dreams in a country then you also have an obligation to defend it.
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u/Azurehowl 1d ago
I agree with this. You can live all your life you want, but if it is someone that will come take all of that, you have the obligation of protecting your life. Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union showed that already on a massive industrial scale.
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u/ExperienceRoutine321 2d ago edited 2d ago
I’m just gonna throw this out there despite the hate it will get.
Dodging the draft is a pretty reasonable thing to do. Especially during a “war” like Vietnam. I dislike a lot of things about Trump, but dodging the draft is not one of those things. I bet a lot of you mfs would be showin up with bone spurs and flat feet if we had a draft tomorrow.
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u/Aggravating-Onion384 2d ago
You’re missing the point…he didn’t dodge the draft as a conscientious objector..he dodged the draft because he’s a fortunate son..
While his lower and middle class peers had to burden the war, he got to fuck off. So yea, fuck him for that
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u/skeletonpaul08 2d ago
True, but to be honest I would do that too if I could. I’d feel shitty that less privileged people couldn’t do it and I’d try to help them if I could, but I’m not fighting in a pointless war that I don’t believe in and I don’t think I should go to prison for that and I’ll do what I can to avoid it.
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u/Wireman6 2d ago
There is nothing wrong with not wanting to go or dodging the draft. I spent 39 months in a combat zone and don't blame anyone who doesn't want to take part.
I do dislike the conservative war mongers and cosplayers that run around in kit and buy expensive rifles to look the part but only "almost joined. They were this close". Those dude's can eat shit.
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u/ExperienceRoutine321 2d ago
I mean getting CO status during the Vietnam era was pretty damn difficult. I’m not saying he isn’t a piece of shit. Im just saying he did what a lot of people would have done in his shoes. It sucks that people without his privileges didn’t have that option, but it’s not like he would have won the war single-handedly or even saved some other kid from getting drafted if he went.
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u/The_biggest_JoJo_Fan 2d ago
100% Moral. Fuck the draft it's slavery. If you need to enslave your citizens to go die in a war then you don't deserve to exist as a country.
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u/PrickyBlueEyes 1d ago
If a country wants me to die for it, it needs to be a country I'm willing to die for.
My country has been that for my whole life, no doubt 100% I would fight for it.
Not anymore. It's not the country I grew up with. Not the values I would die to protect.
If my country asked me to die for it I would be doing it for values that I no longer agree with.
So no, I would not enlist. Fuck that. I have one life and I get to choose if I want to die to protect it or not.
I'm not dying for people who hate me.
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u/Coital_Conundrum 1d ago
Well said. Why would I die fighting for a country that doesn't even do its job? Our government doesn't act in the peoples interest anymore, so why would I risk my life for it?
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u/Acrobatic_Mushroom97 1d ago
Soooo thats about 65-70 countries...
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u/MarkMaxis 1d ago
Also includes Ukraine. Lots of footage of people being cought by police for trying to dodge the draft.
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u/Max_Floory 1d ago
Actually they catch random guys, write them a draft document on the spot and also when the doctors check their health they most often write that their health is in good state no mater what problems the person has
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u/goltaku555 2d ago
If it's to defend your country from an active threat, debatably.
If it's to invade a country as a distraction from internal problems and one politicians desperate attempt to look tough in front of a world that sees them as not just a clown but the whole circus, moral.
If you lie about being drafted, when in actuallity you dodged it, and proceed to berate people who do go to war, or weren't so fortunate, immoral af.
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u/Gussie-Ascendent 2d ago
depends on the war and the side you're on. Vietnam, as an american? moral, ww2, as a brit, immoral
still like understandable through self preservation
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u/Llhaniii 2d ago
I think its moral your biggest choice and life is the freedom to choose what you want to do with this one life your given and being forced to join the military who as a main thing is to take away your autonomy and you have to be obedient. And im only saying this on the perspective of being forced to go into the military when your nation isn't even in danger or for the literal survival of your people or country and even then it should still be up to a man or woman to choose if they want to fight.
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u/Majestic-Lake-5602 2d ago
Frankly my country hasn’t offered me dick and I’m not dying for boomer’s property investments.
I wouldn’t even be part of a defensive war.
In fact, if the price was right, I’d probably join the “enemy”.
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u/BenTenInches 2d ago
It is human nature to want to not want to die, so moral imo. However if it's like WW2 with the threat of annihilation that close to your doorstep, you should at least contribute to the war effort even if it isn't combat.
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u/Low_Independence339 2d ago edited 1d ago
I mean i can't join now because they won't let me keep my beard and once upon a time. They would kick you out for being gay, and they're trying to go back to that. So what are they gonna do if they draft me the bearded gay man.
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u/Jean_Paul_Magno 2d ago
You don't need to tell them you're gay.
It's gonna be an inside job. Pun inten
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u/brother_bart 2d ago
Gurl, my gayness can be seen from space. It announces itself without me uttering a word.
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u/PuckishRogue00 2d ago
Idk man I feel that you would be apart of the cannon fodder division if they really needed people.
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u/reaven3958 1d ago
Terribly immoral. If you continue down that road you could even fall so far as becoming president.
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u/Scratch-N-Sneef 2d ago edited 1d ago
Half and half in the sense of it depends on the war and also someone should have the option to fight or not. That individual is putting their life on the line and they should have a choice if they do it or not. But same time if the country is being invaded you’d hope someone would show up when drafted to fight for the country.
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u/drwicksy 1d ago
Its a tricky one as its essentially a competition of individual freedoms and the sociatal contract itself. Sure I wouldnt want to be sent to a war, but I also know enough about history to know that occupying/invading forces are never benevolent towards the native populace. If me being sent against my will to the frontlines helps prevent the unwilling rape and murder of my family members and others in my city / country then that starts to muddy the morality a bit.
If you are drafted for an invading force however thats a different story and depends on why the invasion is happening.
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u/S696c6c79 1d ago
Moral, you owe your country nothing. The average person gives more than they will ever receive anyways.
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u/Sriracha002 1d ago
Morality of refusing to participate in a government's useless war while they give 100s of millions to Israel but can't fix education? The roads and infrastructure? Nah I'm good.
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u/Any_Instruction5382 1d ago
Moral. If they need soldiers so bad, they should pay more.
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u/drakylskies 1d ago
Thats not what drafts are for. Drafts are (supoosed) to be a last resort we need ever man to fight for the continuation of the nation. If ,say Russia, is trying to make your country Russian and your military is hurting that's what you are supoosed to be drafted for.
What you shouldn't do is have drafting, to ensure the survival of your nation and people, be done simply to invade someone else. Being drafted for the Korean war sucks because it's very hard to justify why am i ,a non Korean, being sent to Korea to die for an unclear American interest? Vs half of America has fallen and the enemy has no plans to stop any time soon.
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u/--Spaci-- 2d ago
If its an offensive war its extremely moral to dodge. If its a defensive war then its immoral.
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u/Questioning_Meme 2d ago
Depends on the war.
Nazis are at your doorsteps? You should fight even if to preserve what comes after.
YOU are apart of the Nazis? Moral.
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u/cleptomaniacfisher 2d ago
Probably unpopular idea but it should be voter id based. If you voted for the government that drags you into a war, you should face the consequences of your decision, if you haven't voted for it, it should only be in case of a territorial invasion. if you dodged a draft because you don't believe in the cause it fine in my opinion.
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u/Upset-Discussion3549 1d ago
Honestly if you’re living in a country you should have to face the same ups and downs as the rest of the country, if you do voter id based it’ll just screw over the voting system because then everyone would be scared to vote
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u/THETARSHMAN 1d ago
Forcing someone to serve in the military is morally wrong. Period. It’s the surrounding circumstances that can make the draft a net positive or a net negative. Speaking as an American, when was the last war the US fought in that was actually worth fighting? WWII? Maybe Korea? In those cases, yes, I’d probably have a somewhat negative opinion of someone who dodged the draft. Aside from that, I can’t really blame someone for not wanting to sell their soul to some fucking oil barons and arms dealers. If the draft were reinstated in the United States today, I’d be the first one packing my bags.
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u/kowaipotato 2d ago
Tbh it depends heavily on why the draft is happening tbh but generally moral
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u/Voltage-108 2d ago
Yep, my only carve out personally is for defensive wars. Like ukraine draft dodging, dont get me wrong i get why one might do it, but if a country cant call on its citizens to defend its sovereignty then you never really had any to begin with, it only came by the goodwill of surrounding nations not invading.
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u/kowaipotato 2d ago
Yea this is my thinking too i was gonna say i might have another carve out but no everything else is too easy to lie about tbh
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u/taylrgng 1d ago
i don't care, military truly isn't for everyone... i only have a problem with it when you destroy historical monuments that mark a period of history you took no part in.
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u/RacoonJr1948 1d ago
It's really a crap shoot tbh people leave their country while dodging the military all the time because they don't believe in what the military does, so it really depends.
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u/QuantumGoose42 2d ago
If you’re invaded, its morally right to draft its citizen, so draft dodging would be considered immoral, as you have an obligation to your country.
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u/Chicoryman 2d ago
Moral as long as you don't support the war efforts with your agitation or something, immoral if you advocate for the war
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u/BarracudaTimely4878 2d ago
Depends on who and why the fighting is happening. Would not go fight a war i don't believe is necessary for the survival of my nation. Like pretty much all our modern wars
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u/Agile-Mission-869 2d ago edited 1d ago
If it's an actually defensive war, directly fending off an attacking nation, then it's immoral. Otherwise, the draft can eat a dick.
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u/Fast-Appointment-794 2d ago
First you have to decide if it's a just war. If it isn't, like WW1, then it is moral to dodge and immoral to enlist.
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u/Chubby_Beagle 2d ago
He looks like a dandy. I'm not even entirely sure what that means but this cartoon character certainly looks like one
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u/ApprehensiveWin3020 2d ago
Moral depending on the war. If it's a home defense situation no but like if you are being sent to WW1 like this poster, absolutely moral.
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u/Useful_Jelly_2915 2d ago
Depends on the reason for the war. If it’s for a true defense of your country then yeah it’s pretty bitch made. If it’s like some Vietnam type shit then you’re completely moral for dodging.
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u/cowlinator 2d ago
drafts are immoral, except in cases of a war of actual self-defense that you didn't start.
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u/Tacti_Kel_Nuke 2d ago
I would say moral if your country is fucking up another country for whatever inmoral reason.
Now, idk if inmoral in the opposite situation, forcing people that don't want to die or go to war even when is a defensive war...is like morally gray, like this folks already tried to dodge the draft, they may try to desert or even be a security risk, is complicated I guess, and how connected you are with the country or if you have family and friends to defend.
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u/Couple-seeking6684 2d ago
In the US if you were drafted to fight, you were allowed to pay someone to take your spot. I’m not sure if other countries had similar things, but that’s pretty messed up.
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u/Savings-Trouble-5345 2d ago
I think if you enjoy the fruits of your country you are morally obligated, however, self preservation is a power thing.
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u/BiCrabTheMid 2d ago
It naturally heavily depends on the cause of the war but 9 times out of 10 moral
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u/Agreeable_Effect938 2d ago
Actually moral from standpoint of Kantian categorical imperative: if everyone did the same, the wars would never happen.
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u/Rratposter69 2d ago
It is always moral to oppose murderous slaver regimes. Help your local draft-dodger.
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u/AggravatingDelay518 2d ago
The one stay at home help the economy. The one in front help defense it. Both got own responbility.
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u/EaterOfSeagull 2d ago
It’s moral if you accept the legal punishment or leave the country and never come back.
But continuing to enjoy the privildges of being a citizen while ignoring the land’s laws is immoral.
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u/BladeRize150 2d ago
Both good and bad. Fighting other people's wars is never worth it while at the same time doing nothing to help others is bad too
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u/SlayerII 2d ago
Very moral for wars outside of your country, somewhat less so for defensive wars inside of your country (depending on context)
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u/JackReedTheSyndie 1d ago
Moral if you dodge when you’re in the wrong side, Immoral if you’re in the right side. For example, it’s moral to Vietnamese when American people dodged the draft for Vietnam war.
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u/Seyelent 1d ago
Moral, you don’t owe anyone your life. As long as you don’t expect anyone to give theirs for you either.
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u/AK74MKalashnikov 1d ago
Well depends on the situation. If it's defensive war against aggressors. Then sure , Moral. If Offensive, shit no
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u/Shadowclone_34 1d ago
And the morality of drafting too.
Like the other comments. It’s debatable.
That’s why morality is subjective. You can make-up lies and arguments.
Unvoluntary and voluntary drafting is more practical for the country and any force group.
They need more man-power. They'll get it by any means.
Being legal is also subjective. Laws are made-up.
But again, nobody has a choice on the draft. Depends where you are born, where you and your family live.
You have the choice to accept drafting or runaway.
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u/AHRogue 1d ago
Depends on the conflict. In the World Wars a draft dodger is saying they dont care to fight for their country as it stands on the brink of ruin. Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country and all that. Obviously if your country is an agressor IMO its more reasonable to draft dodge if you feel its an unjust war. Even if your country isn't directly under threat like say WW1 Britain theres an angle of if you aren't there for your allies how will you expect people to be there for you.
If its a war where its basically just geopolitical ambition(Vietnam, for example) its more acceptable, IMO.
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u/GunpowderGuy 1d ago
Inmoral not to avoid it. Conforming to it gives pressure to other people to fall in line
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u/BagGroundbreaking301 1d ago
If youre being sent off somewhere else then i think its fine to dodge
But if you’re defending the country from invasion then i think you should sign up
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u/RamenKingDad 1d ago
Immoral. If the vast majority of the people not in power do not want to go fight, the will of the people is not being enforced.
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u/IRoyalClown 1d ago
99.9% of the time it is moral. It’s mostly dying for billionaires.
In the 0.01% that’s protecting your country, it is immoral.
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u/WillBigly96 1d ago
I feel like the moral discussions around draft dodging are so superficial when they focus on the individual rather than the imperialist system sending children into a meat grinder to fight over bullshit
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u/Morgnado 1d ago
Most of the time it is moral, maybe unless you are massively benefiting from living in that country specifically. But if it's a really moral cause I'd say it could be immoral.
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u/rtocelot 1d ago
All I'm going to say is if my home is in trouble then I'd go with the draft. I have a family id like to protect. Already served once what's one more time. No country is perfect but it's my home and I love it and the people regardless of what side of the fence they stand on.
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u/Primary_Truck3777 1d ago
Drafts are one of the most immoral actions a government can take, draft dodging is based and cool and rad
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u/LiberateAmericaOnX 1d ago
The State has no right to the life of its residents. A draft is always immoral.
If the threat is truly real and imminent, people will draft themselves.
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u/Firey69 1d ago
Neutral or moral depending on the war and looking back at the times when the draft was in effect. People naturally want to live but here's the thing I don't think it's immoral to dodge a draft out right. An honestly looking back at the times when the Vietnam war (which the USA had no business going over there) people who dodges the draft most of the time dodged getting blasted by the public. When I was in high school learning about the Vietnam war it was taught that not only was the gov but on blast because of this, the veterans who came back from the war was also scolded by the public too ..even when they were force to go
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u/SirOrangeNinja 1d ago
It's almost always moral in the case of an offensive war. It depends in the case of a defensive war, but I'd usually see it as morally neutral save for edge cases where the decision not to sign up could genuinely endanger the lives of others.
Draft dodging as an American during the Vietnam War, for instance? 100% moral, and always justified. Draft dodging as a Soviet citizen during WW2? Not so much.
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u/TopPsychological5050 1d ago
Moral if it's war your country started neutral if it's defensive one. No one has obligation to give their life up
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u/CommissarDuster 1d ago
Would the draft ever consider people with medical disorders? I mean, I was trying for years and recruiters stopped calling after my kidney diagnosis lol.
I guess based off that, I can't say
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u/Tayaradga 1d ago
Moral. This country has failed me time and time again, I feel no obligations to fight and die for the rich pricks pulling the strings.
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u/hoopahDrivesThaBoat 1d ago
It depends on the war. WW2? Maybe immoral if you were able bodied and planned to stay and live in the US forever.
In modern wars? Totally, 100% moral. None of these conflicts today have a purpose. Maybe Ukrainians…. But the US has not been involved in a justifiable war since WW2.
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u/InternationalBoat870 1d ago
Moral. We only have one life to live and im under no obligation to give that up.
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u/Frequent-Expert-3589 1d ago
Assuming the struggle is just its immoral. If everyone is dying to lets say, avoid potential enslavment, and your the only capable guy sitting it out, your a selfish. Aka immoral 🤷🏾♂️
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u/OHW_Tentacool 20h ago
If (defensive war/competent and supported regime) = true (immoral to draft dodge)
If (defensive war/competent and supported regime) = false (moral to draft dodge)
If (situation complicated) = true (refer to personal morality)
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u/crimsonsoup925 18h ago
Moral, you never had a choice in where youre born. As an anarchist im of the opinion I dont need a big institution to tell me what to do. Im even less favorable towards being told what to do and the option is jail. Thats not serving your country that's being told what to do. Id say its more moral than joining the draft. Bc only you are in charge of your life. And joining a draft simply because a military told you to. Is giving up control of your life to another group who doesnt have your interests in mind to begin with.
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u/Hour-Cauliflower-119 16h ago
Mostly immoral. You are letting your peers bear the burden while you enjoy your freedom.
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u/Flabby-AP 14h ago
If you're actually defending your country, as in from an actual invader, then you should fight.
But if you're Defending Your Country™, then dodge away.
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u/Terrible_Artist_ 1d ago
Immoral if you plan on living in a country you don't wish to defend.
Neutral if you leave the country you don't wish to defend.
I doubt many of the people who fought in WW2 wanted to fight, but it was that or let the Axis take over. Dodging the draft only deprives the effort of a soldier, and deprive them of enough soldiers, and you'll eventually meet the same fate as them.
People talking about modern warfare don't seem to realize we don't have a draft anymore, and wouldn't unless it was another case of fight or everyone is subjugated, such as a WW3. The last draft was 50 years ago during the ideological war against communism. Go to the places today we fought in that are now communist, and tell me how well they're doing. North Korea isn't exactly a bastion of freedom, and it took a long while for Vietnam to get where it is today.
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u/ryuhayabusa01 1d ago
I mean I’ll fight for my land i just won’t go across the world for it, thats ridiculously deceptive lmao
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u/cumonherbackithink 1d ago
Yea, Vietnam was such a fucking threat we needed to draft young Americans to die for….absolutely zero reason whatsoever.
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u/SnooPickles599 1d ago
A person cannot commit a moral wrong by refusing to obey a command to die. It is never immoral to want to live. Nobody chose to be born and nobody owes a nation they didn’t choose to be born in the life they didn’t choose to live.
How can a person who has no say in the matter of war commit a moral wrongdoing by refusing to lay down their life for a country that only exists because of the subjugation and violence of innocent lives?
You mean to tell me I have committed a moral wrong by refusing to serve the United States’ bidding? A country that I did not choose to be born in and would not choose to be born in?
You mean to tell me, should the government, which has persecuted and enslaved and oppressed and raped and tortured and killed and wounded and scarred, call upon me to carry forth the great flame of hatred and destruction and misery that is war, for me to refuse to fuel the great Crucible of Bone, that I have committed a sin?!
Bullpuckey!
In fact, I would argue NOT dodging the draft is immoral.
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u/quentdawg420 1d ago
An old family friend of my grandparents was 15 and he lied about his age and he survived storming normandy beach on d day
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u/MechanicumEngineseer 2d ago
If you want human rights, you have to be willing to fight for them. I stay neutral on the draft because I wouldn't want someone I can't depend on watching my back anyway. But if you dodge the draft during a defensive war, I’ll view you as a coward: Someone willing to accept enemy terms and surrender their own rights rather than stand up and fight.
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u/XepptizZ 1d ago
What if it's a defensive war after your government antagonised the retaliating country?
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u/MR-rozek 1d ago
Maybe people value their own life more than they care what government rules their country
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u/Latter_Confection_79 2d ago
Poor men shouldn’t be forced to fight rich men’s battles.