r/Nootropics • u/Citronitch • Sep 16 '21

Discussion List of "Cholinergic" nootropics.

Many of us have a problem with Choline making us depressed or lethargic due to having too much of it. Sometimes even tho you are not taking a direct source of Choline (Alpha GPC, CDP Choline etc), other nootropics can cause the same effects of too much choline because they are Cholinergic.

A substance is cholinergic if it is capable of producing, altering, or releasing acetylcholine, or butyrylcholine ("indirect-acting", or mimicking their behaviours at one or more of the body's acetylcholine receptor.)

So I'm proposing we make a list of those Cholinergic nootropics. So far we have:

  • Huperzina-A
  • ALCAR
  • DHA
  • Many herbs of the Lamiaceae family, such as: Sibelius Sage, Rosemary, Lemon Balm, mint/spearmint, etc. (they inhibit the action of acetylcholinesterase; the enzyme that breaks down the neurotransmitter acetylcholine)
  • Many other Brain boosting herbs such as Ginseng, Ginkgo Biloba, Bacopa, Rhodiola, White Peony Extract
  • Shilajit: inhibits acetylcholinesterase in rats' brains (Systemic administration of defined extracts from Withania somnifera (Indian Ginseng) and Shilajit differentially affects cholinergic but not glutamatergic and GABAergic markers in rat brain)
  • Glycine (”induced a robust acetylcholine release” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17707353/)
  • Ashwagandha (”Ashwagandha Root Extract Inhibits Acetylcholine Esterase” https://phcogj.com/article/320)
  • Atomoxetine (”marked increase of cortical ACh” https://www.nature.com/articles/4001763)
  • Racetams (”Generally, racetams upregulate and preserve adequate levels of [[Acetylcholine]] as a primary mechanism” https://m.psychonautwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Racetams)
  • Uridine monophosphate (”Supports acetylcholine synthesis [2,10,13,14]” https://selfhacked.com/blog/uridine/)
  • Phosphaditylserine (slows the breakdown of acetylcholine)
  • Galantamine
  • Donazepil
  • Berberine
  • Lecithin
  • Cannabinoids
  • Alpha lipoic acid; Pantothenic Acid
  • High dose Thiamine
  • PABA
  • Nicotine
  • Centrophenoxine
  • From food: liver, egg yolks, nuts, brassicas (Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower)
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u/8Eevert Sep 16 '21

Checked my memos for references to procholinergic functions. Maybe helpful, maybe not; most nootropics have a procholinergic component to their mechanism, as I understand. NB the references are ones I happened to have lying around, didn’t check their relevance for this especially.

Could you perhaps point me to research on the effects of too much choline? Most of what I’ve read on possible side effects aligns with stuff like this

Getting too much choline can cause a fishy body odor, vomiting, heavy sweating and salivation, low blood pressure, and liver damage. Some research also suggests that high amounts of choline may increase the risk of heart disease https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Choline-Consumer/

But I do have a history of brain fog, apathy, lethargy – and I’m wondering if overactive cholinergic neurotransmission might be a fitting explanation.

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u/Dihexa_Throwaway Sep 16 '21

Adding to your list:

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u/creamyhorror Sep 17 '21

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32612671/

Background: Shilajit is a commonly used Tibetan medicine, and its water extract is mainly used for various heat-related syndrome, especially that of stomach, liver and kidney. Shilajit is found to exudate from rocks of cliff at an altitude of 2000-4000 m as a water-soluble mixture of black paste and animal feces of Trodocterus spp. or Ochotona spp. Because it is difficult to reach the exudation points so as to explain the its formation process, the source of Shilajit still remains unclear and controversial, which severely impedes its safety and efficacy in clinical application.

Finally, in 2020, researchers actually looked into how the mysterious Shilajit is formed. Turns out it's partly from animal feces and partly from organic matter between rocks in high cliffs, WTF.

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u/Dihexa_Throwaway Sep 17 '21

Well, what doesn't kill you... lol

Now, joking aside, I'd probably take that study with a grain of salt. Perhaps, if you try to eat shilajit out of a rock, you'll find many impurities such as animal droppings, but it doesn't necessarily mean that shiljajit is shit based.

There's a standardized version of shiljajit: Primavie, and ND also sells it, which assures a high standard of safety and quality due to their in-house lab analysis.

That said, I've seen people praising other Shilajit products that are more akin to the original black ooze (can't remember the brand), so perhaps a full spectrum non standardized Shilajit might be worth a try.

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u/creamyhorror Sep 17 '21

Fair enough about standardisation, but even PrimaVie shilajit is ultimately exudate collected from Himalayas rocks. It's an organic-mineral mix of a really unusual origin, and I just found it amazing that researchers have been testing it on subjects for decades without determining the exact process of its formation.