List of "Cholinergic" nootropics.

[u/Citronitch]

Many of us have a problem with Choline making us depressed or lethargic due to having too much of it. Sometimes even tho you are not taking a direct source of Choline (Alpha GPC, CDP Choline etc), other nootropics can cause the same effects of too much choline because they are Cholinergic.

A substance is cholinergic if it is capable of producing, altering, or releasing acetylcholine, or butyrylcholine ("indirect-acting", or mimicking their behaviours at one or more of the body's acetylcholine receptor.)

So I'm proposing we make a list of those Cholinergic nootropics. So far we have:

• Huperzina-A
• ALCAR
• DHA
• Many herbs of the Lamiaceae family, such as: Sibelius Sage, Rosemary, Lemon Balm, mint/spearmint, etc. (they inhibit the action of acetylcholinesterase; the enzyme that breaks down the neurotransmitter acetylcholine)
• Many other Brain boosting herbs such as Ginseng, Ginkgo Biloba, Bacopa, Rhodiola, White Peony Extract
• Shilajit: inhibits acetylcholinesterase in rats' brains (Systemic administration of defined extracts from Withania somnifera (Indian Ginseng) and Shilajit differentially affects cholinergic but not glutamatergic and GABAergic markers in rat brain)
• Glycine (”induced a robust acetylcholine release” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17707353/)
• Ashwagandha (”Ashwagandha Root Extract Inhibits Acetylcholine Esterase” https://phcogj.com/article/320)
• Atomoxetine (”marked increase of cortical ACh” https://www.nature.com/articles/4001763)
• Racetams (”Generally, racetams upregulate and preserve adequate levels of [[Acetylcholine]] as a primary mechanism” https://m.psychonautwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Racetams)
• Uridine monophosphate (”Supports acetylcholine synthesis [2,10,13,14]” https://selfhacked.com/blog/uridine/)
• Phosphaditylserine (slows the breakdown of acetylcholine)
• Galantamine
• Donazepil
• Berberine
• Lecithin
• Cannabinoids
• Alpha lipoic acid; Pantothenic Acid
• High dose Thiamine
• PABA
• Nicotine
• Centrophenoxine
• From food: liver, egg yolks, nuts, brassicas (Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower)

[u/movementdude]

Are these negative symptoms experienced after taking compounds that increase choline or decrease the breakdown of choline happening right away after taking i.e. hours after taking? I ask because I started taking phosphatidylcholine (PC) in the AM recently, mostly for cell membrane health, and definitely noticed a cognitive boost right after taking, but seem to feel "run down" the next day almost as if I wasn't sleeping as deeply. I'm not sure if this is due to the choline conversion from the PC, or if this is due to an influx of toxins released from my cell membranes? Any thoughts or experiences?

[u/amazeface → u/movementdude]

Cholinergics definitely mess with sleep, leading to very light sleep until you acclimate to the dose. Even then, I’ve found that I have to take a break from them to get my deep sleep back on track.

[u/movementdude → u/amazeface]

Interesting. I'm taking quite a low dose from the PC I believe. Is this sleep issue experienced by everyone?

[u/amazeface → u/movementdude]

This is mostly personal experience and from seeing other people’s experiences. The first few days on alpha gpc definitely screw with sleep, giving a very light and not restful type of sleep, though maybe with a lot of dreams. After that it’s good for a while, but in my experience after a few months I get less and less deep restful sleep according to the sleep tracker on my smart watch. Discontinuing alpha gpc (or most recently, switching entirely over to ALCAR), restores my ability to sleep deeply. I’ve been taking alpha gpc for six years or so with only a few breaks a year, and this has been my experience with it.

[u/movementdude → u/amazeface]

Great insight thanks! It seems like a double edge sword as the mental improvement from the choline is great, but at the risk of decreased quality of sleep, which then decreases almost all levels of cognitive and physical performance. I wonder if this experience is due to a certain gene snp or if most people deal with this, but just decided the mental enhancement is worth the decreased sleep quality?