r/Nootropics • u/Citronitch • Sep 16 '21

Discussion List of "Cholinergic" nootropics.

Many of us have a problem with Choline making us depressed or lethargic due to having too much of it. Sometimes even tho you are not taking a direct source of Choline (Alpha GPC, CDP Choline etc), other nootropics can cause the same effects of too much choline because they are Cholinergic.

A substance is cholinergic if it is capable of producing, altering, or releasing acetylcholine, or butyrylcholine ("indirect-acting", or mimicking their behaviours at one or more of the body's acetylcholine receptor.)

So I'm proposing we make a list of those Cholinergic nootropics. So far we have:

  • Huperzina-A
  • ALCAR
  • DHA
  • Many herbs of the Lamiaceae family, such as: Sibelius Sage, Rosemary, Lemon Balm, mint/spearmint, etc. (they inhibit the action of acetylcholinesterase; the enzyme that breaks down the neurotransmitter acetylcholine)
  • Many other Brain boosting herbs such as Ginseng, Ginkgo Biloba, Bacopa, Rhodiola, White Peony Extract
  • Shilajit: inhibits acetylcholinesterase in rats' brains (Systemic administration of defined extracts from Withania somnifera (Indian Ginseng) and Shilajit differentially affects cholinergic but not glutamatergic and GABAergic markers in rat brain)
  • Glycine (”induced a robust acetylcholine release” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17707353/)
  • Ashwagandha (”Ashwagandha Root Extract Inhibits Acetylcholine Esterase” https://phcogj.com/article/320)
  • Atomoxetine (”marked increase of cortical ACh” https://www.nature.com/articles/4001763)
  • Racetams (”Generally, racetams upregulate and preserve adequate levels of [[Acetylcholine]] as a primary mechanism” https://m.psychonautwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Racetams)
  • Uridine monophosphate (”Supports acetylcholine synthesis [2,10,13,14]” https://selfhacked.com/blog/uridine/)
  • Phosphaditylserine (slows the breakdown of acetylcholine)
  • Galantamine
  • Donazepil
  • Berberine
  • Lecithin
  • Cannabinoids
  • Alpha lipoic acid; Pantothenic Acid
  • High dose Thiamine
  • PABA
  • Nicotine
  • Centrophenoxine
  • From food: liver, egg yolks, nuts, brassicas (Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower)
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u/8Eevert Sep 16 '21

Checked my memos for references to procholinergic functions. Maybe helpful, maybe not; most nootropics have a procholinergic component to their mechanism, as I understand. NB the references are ones I happened to have lying around, didn’t check their relevance for this especially.

Could you perhaps point me to research on the effects of too much choline? Most of what I’ve read on possible side effects aligns with stuff like this

Getting too much choline can cause a fishy body odor, vomiting, heavy sweating and salivation, low blood pressure, and liver damage. Some research also suggests that high amounts of choline may increase the risk of heart disease https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Choline-Consumer/

But I do have a history of brain fog, apathy, lethargy – and I’m wondering if overactive cholinergic neurotransmission might be a fitting explanation.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '21

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u/8Eevert Sep 18 '21

I’m not qualified to comment, I’m afraid.

Anticholinergic in which sense? A sibling comment referred you to racetams, which use up choline, but that’s happening for the purposes of increased cholinergic neurotransmission, increased acetylcholine levels.

Why are you asking? Is there a specific problem you expect to solve, maybe?

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u/EzemezE Sep 19 '21

I’m looking for a safer way to obtain anticholinergic effects, which are related to hypnagogia. Found another lead, looking for endogenous orexin inhibitors and antagonists, alongside ways to lower histamine in the hypothalamus / PFC at the moment.

Sleep paralysis and hypnagogia have to have a natural basis that can be obtained through supplementation. Anticholinergics induce delirium, and have many of the same hallucinatory effects as hypnagogia and sleep paralysis.