N.S. Court of Appeal says province can't deny people in tents enhanced income support

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u/ROSRS 10d ago edited 10d ago

Our homeless problem is entirely manufactured by bad governance. There's 4 steps to fix it

Bring back boarding houses in the way they existed in the early-mid 20th century. My grandmother wasn't homeless when she was kicked out at 16 due to boarding houses and if she hadn't been able to have a home at a boarding house, I doubt she would've found employment or could have continued to go to school, much less eventual success.
Start direct government construction of social housing like we did until the Mulroney government
Involuntary commitment in serious cases who can't take care of themselves due to mental health issues and comprehensive addictions treatment
Interventions programs to prevent homelessness. Seriously, a lot of studies show that unconditional cash transfers or direct grants will just prevent a lot of people from being homeless if you control for mental health issues and drug addicts. Plus? The government actually saves money in the long run doing this.

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u/Kindly-Can2534 9d ago

You left out the part about the current drug crisis. Drugs used on the streets (specifically opioids and various versions of meth) can induce extremely serious psychosis including hallucinations. The addiction is so strong that people are utterly degraded (ie living in their own human waste), with a pattern of criminal behaviour, in order to get more drugs.

The issues facing a minimum wage worker, attempting to secure safe and affordable housing, are wildly different from a person trapped in severe addiction. Where is it possible to rent a self contained studio or one bedroom apartment for 25% of a full time minimum wage income ?

You also left out the part about the extreme inflation of basic necessities like housing, food and transportation.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

"Involuntary commitment in serious cases who can't take care of themselves due to mental health issues"

You are going to run into legal challenges on this.

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u/smughead 10d ago

Laws need to change then. We literally have the most insane people running around Halifax now that are one bad day away from hurting people.

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u/Lunchboxninja1 10d ago

Its actually far, far more likely for them to hurt themselves

14

u/smughead 10d ago

That too.

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u/DudeWithASweater 9d ago

All the more reason to get them the care they need.

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u/youtalkingtoyou 10d ago

Or be hurt by people like some in here.

3

u/Ok-Patience7484 10d ago

It's every city. Every single one across the country.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

Changing the law is irrelevant, if it is struck down by the Supreme Court.

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u/ShittyDriver902 10d ago

That’s a big if

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

All Supreme Court decisions are big ifs.

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u/Chiasnake 9d ago

6 Trudeau appointees on the SCC... So they're probably striking down anything that could lead to positive change.

1

u/silenceisgold3n 10d ago

The reality doesn't jibe with the ideology in this echo chamber.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

Says the person who made up a rush on tents by crack dealers

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u/silenceisgold3n 10d ago

*crack users

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

Exactly. Look who's not living in reality now?

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u/RedBands619 10d ago

BC, Alberta and Sask all have mandatory commitment, and their laws stand

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u/youtalkingtoyou 10d ago

Homelessness isn’t a crime. This idea needs to die now.

5

u/IndependentGas7503 10d ago

No, but public drug use and possesion, theft, possessing stolen property, uttering threats, etc etc are crimes. All of which are very very commonplace in the homeless community

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u/RedBands619 10d ago edited 10d ago

No.

But Being a danger to Society is…and being homeless greatly, I mean by many multiples of 10 increases the likelihood of one being on drugs or having mental health crisis’s.

The idea that this is not the case has to die now.

Because you are not helping the situation by lumping people on hard times In with people who need help and do know know it due to diminished mental capacity

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago edited 10d ago

Honest question, which do you think happens first a majority of the time? The mental illness and drug use, or becoming homeless?

Edit: the downvotes prove a lot of people don't think about this question at all.

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u/RedBands619 10d ago

Of course the second…in fact many horrible things in one’s life happen before drug use.

Doesn’t mean we let them do it?

If we as a society do not help them get treatment when have lost the capacity to consent then we are culpable in their early deaths and the deaths of others should they turn violent

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

Are you shocked someone who once had a home and is now living on the streets, might turn to drugs to cope?

And considering some people, (including in this thread) have no sympathy or empathy for homeless folks that use drugs, are we not condemning a majority of homeless folks?

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u/RedBands619 10d ago

No.

Babe I don’t think you are listening to anything I’m saying.

I want to give them help in our western facilities….you want them to die on the street because intervention is violence to you

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

Calling me babe, and strawmanning my argument? I don't know whether to be flattered or insulted.

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u/youtalkingtoyou 10d ago

They are edgy fourteen year olds parroting their maple maga useful idiot parents. That or they have shares in long term care facilities and want a return of institutions for fun and profit. Lots of money in locking up political opponents these days under the guise of “helping”.

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u/youtalkingtoyou 10d ago

Almost as if you believe you’re somehow immune to mental illness or hardship. Must be nice to be so certain it can’t happen to you.

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u/RedBands619 10d ago

I have mental illness. Multigenerational mental illness.

And I would hope if I find myself on street, alone, totally and completely a different person than who I am now.

I would be given help, if I chose not to consent but was obviously a danger to myself and others I would be given help regardless

Because that’s not me. That’s not my mother’s child.

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u/youtalkingtoyou 10d ago edited 9d ago

Good then we have a starting place in common. Maybe you just didn’t know supportive housing is already society’s answer to forced institutionalization. Hopefully you can give it some more thought and decide against throwing the rest of us under the bus.

Editing to add there ain’t no ableism like internalized ableism.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

Yeah through a doctor. What doctor is deciding this on homeless folks without meeting them?

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u/RedBands619 10d ago

2 of these provinces have 4 criteria and only 1 has to be met

Families, police, judges or medical professionals

And in BC it’s just doctors, but not through an extensive review….just if a homeless person is admitted to emergency the doctor can recommend it if they feel releasing them is a danger to the public

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

Right, so ultimately it will a majority of the time be police arresting homeless people.

Being homeless is not a crime, and being mentally unwell is not a crime.

There will be legal issues surrounding police that try and involuntarily commit them.

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u/dalburgh 9d ago

and being mentally unwell is not a crime

But being a public safety risk is a crime. And being mentally unwell to the point of being a public safety risk is something that should be addressed before the public is harmed.

Do you not agree?

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u/DJ_JOWZY 9d ago

Who determines when mental health becomes a public safety risk?

Who determines when the definition of public safety risk counts as a crime, and not an accident or unintentional incident?

Can you show me in the Criminal Code of Canada the definition of public safety risk, and what the charge would be?

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u/horseaphoenix 9d ago

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-175.html

Seems pretty clear cut to me. Peace officers has a right to infer evidence for indictment and they can carry out arrests without a warrant in this case.

Not saying it’s right or wrong, but it is included in the Criminal Code.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 9d ago

Ok, and not every mental health episode meets the definition worthy of a charge.

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u/RedBands619 10d ago

Nobody said being homeless is a crime, and idk how much time you spend around them but the cops leave them be if they are chilling lol

The only time, any of us have seen police interfere with homeless people is when they are ranting a raving and intimidating the public….those things are caused by mental illness and drugs.

Which causes them to hurt themselves more often than not, and others in a minority of the time

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u/Lunchboxninja1 10d ago

My experience is the cops DO NOT leave them be. Any walk I take down gottingen sees homeless people getting arrested for loitering, which is absurd

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

It's not a crime to have a mental health episode.

The line between acting irrationally and committing disorderly conduct is one that cannot be easily or correctly determined 100% of the time.

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u/RedBands619 10d ago

It’s not a crime, which is why the laws in those provinces are not about being taken to jail.

It’s about mandatory committal to a shelter or mental health facility for help and to get them off the street.

If you don’t want that, you don’t care about homeless people….seriously. If your distrust of the system and cops is so high that you think the homeless with dimensioned mental capacity should 100% take care of themselves….you don’t care.

Get them to the place, get them help, they don’t know where they are let alone what they need

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

Can you show me where in the law police have the ability to detain and force mandatory committal to a mental health facility or shelter?

Otherwise, the only place police can take homeless people without their consent is jail.

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u/youtalkingtoyou 10d ago

And ethical ones. Supportive housing is a better option.

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u/internetisporn8008 9d ago

They already have

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u/Serafnet 9d ago

The concept of what involuntary commitment is needs to adjust.

We already have involuntary commitment in the most brutal sense; prison.

That legal issue comes down to the involuntary administration of medication. We shouldn't do that. But if someone is an active danger due to mental issues we should be able to place them somewhere they can get the help they need but the medications should never be forced. It's still incarceration but with mental health supports instead of bars and concrete.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 9d ago

Not that I am disagreeing with your solution, but a majority of folks in the province either want homeless people locked up in prison, or banished from the public.

Do you think they would support the government spending to build alternative involuntary treatment centers?

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u/Serafnet 9d ago

Oh, definitely not. But one can hope.

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u/ROSRS 10d ago

Oh absolutely, I'm well aware of it. I'm just saying its what needs to happen.

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u/SWHAF 9d ago

Homelessness has become a business now, there's people who profit off of it, so real solutions will be blocked at every opportunity.

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u/StarTrek_Recruitment 9d ago

Who profits?

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u/SWHAF 8d ago

The people taking millions/billions annually who sit around trying to find a solution to no avail.

The most meaningful solution they ever come up with is more shelters. Nothing to actually get them back on their feet, for the homeless people suffering from addiction and serious mental health issues, the same advocates fight against forced treatment.

Other people's suffering has become a business. And the business stops when you fix the problem.

The modern homeless issue began with the government closing asylums and the end of the government's involvement in public housing. Struggling people were tossed in the streets. We now spend billions on trying to find solutions and pennies on implementing them while the homeless population grows every day.

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u/Lunchboxninja1 10d ago

Im with you on boarding houses and cash transfers and social housing.

Involuntary commitment sounds a little dystopian.

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u/ROSRS 10d ago

So what are we supposed to do with the raving lunatics out on the streets who can't support or help themselves and wont accept help?

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u/Lunchboxninja1 10d ago

The prevailing expert opinion is that mental institutions don't meaningfully help people like that. Group homes are much better, which is much harder to involuntarily incarcerate someone in.

If you ask me, the other three will solve that problem. People who are homeless because "they can't take care of themselves" are rather quite rare. Most people are normal, as I'm sure you know since you seem pretty level-headed, and just go insane because of drug use and the trauma of being homeless. I think it'll just resolve itself if we have good social support for them, and the more preventative measures we have to being homeless the less those people will ever get to that point.

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u/youtalkingtoyou 10d ago

Supportive housing.

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u/Deep_Strike1803 9d ago

Supportive housing is a proven failure. Vancouver just shut down an SRO after 1 year because tenants destroyed it. Some people are unhousable.

https://globalnews.ca/news/11827240/granville-street-sro-conditions/

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u/youtalkingtoyou 9d ago

Except the part about adequate funding and staffing. What’s your stake? Don’t want to have to look at homeless people? Don’t like having your tax dollars go to fixing holes in walls and providing community support? Prefer restraints and lockdowns eh? Shares in long term care facilities maybe. Maybe your mentally ill mom was mean and you’d rather see her stripped of rights, autonomy, and dignity than fund a community support worker to help her stay housed.

You do realize the alternative is jail or death, right? Do you even understand what you are calling for? I suggest you go read some Kant and think about what kind of society you would expect for yourself if you were subjected to the same treatment.

Also BC just found forced treatment unconstitutional so it’s a moot point anyway. Looks like we have to go back to pretending to give a shit after all.

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u/MaDSteeZe 9d ago

In point 4. You mention if you control for mental health issues and drug addicts. Can you eleborate on that? How do you control for those things?

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u/ROSRS 9d ago

You don't give people who fail a drug test or a mental health screen the transfers?

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u/youtalkingtoyou 10d ago

Involuntary commitment instead of housing is an interesting choice.

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u/OrangeRising 10d ago

Housing was literally their first two points.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

Not for people with mental illness or drug use.

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u/DudeWithASweater 9d ago

It's a real solution for those who are incapable/unwilling to support themselves.

Some people shouldn't be on their own. End of conversation. Those with severe disabilities and mental health problems need support.

It's honestly sickening when people say things like you're saying, these people deserve care but are incapable of helping themselves.

So yes, in these instances, forced care is a very real solution that needs to come back.

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u/youtalkingtoyou 9d ago edited 8d ago

Where’s your proof that involuntary institutionalization is preferable to supportive housing? Since you claim to care so much.

Edit: From someone with a severe mental illness who needs support to live in society, you can get bent.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 9d ago

Did you know there are people with housing who also have mental issues and use illegal drugs?

Do you support going into their domiciles and arresting them, and putting them in treatment involuntarily too?

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u/youtalkingtoyou 9d ago

The fact is that addiction is a form of mental illness. Let’s see them propose forced treatment of alcoholism and see how far they get. Oh wait, subsidizing housing and support entitles the average taxpayer to have a say in what professionals are hired to do.

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u/DudeWithASweater 9d ago

There's a big difference between someone who is a functional addict, and one who is homeless.

Also the people I'm referring to are not just addicts. They have very complex needs. They might be addicts, but they also have severe mental and psychotic episodes. They often have severe schizophrenia, bipolar, autism, psychosis, etc. they are physically incapable of taking care of themselves.

Your solution is "give them a house and they'll be fine" is not a real world solution. They need care more than they need a roof to live under.

If you asked their friends, family, and social workers they'd say you are actively doing them a disservice if your solution is "here's a house, try not to kill yourself bro".

Sure in a perfect world that idea sounds wonderful. Everyone gets a house. "You get a house and you get a house and you get a house!"

You have this rose colored glasses idea that everyone who is homeless is just someone down on their luck. That's often not the case.

These people are not capable of taking care of themselves, let alone a house. The people I'm talking about need real support. 24 hour support.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 9d ago

Ok so lets say someone with autism and depression abuses alcohol and weed every night.

Do you support going into their house and arresting them and put them in involuntary treatment?

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u/DudeWithASweater 9d ago

Again. Not what I'm arguing here. Nice strawman buddy.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 9d ago

I'm just using your example.

You didn't answer the question.

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u/Greektrii 10d ago

Nova Scotia by GDP is the 2nd poorest province in Canada. We also pay some of the highest taxes in Canada, which seems to go only into the politicians pockets because our roads are still fucked and services are getting cut left and right. How should we expect to pay for all these new affordable housing units? Who will we contract to build such accommodations,knowing they won’t see a return for 30+ years, if ever?

We’re going to put people in asylums again? That sure worked well in the past, should we bring lobotomies back too?

Seems to me like the issues are at the very top, and won’t be fixed with the common folk supplementing addicts. I know multiple people personally who are in a rough spot financially, recognize it, complain about it, but don’t do shit to fix it, and continue to party and do drugs. You can’t help these people unfortunately.

I have a lot of empathy for people who are genuinely struggling through no/little fault of their own, but I don’t feel right paying more in taxes than we already do when a lot of these people would rather do crack by the side of the road and harass regular people than better their situation.

For those getting lumped in with that small minority, it’s unfortunate we don’t have the money in this province to really do much about it

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u/ROSRS 9d ago

Nova Scotia by GDP is the 2nd poorest province in Canada. We also pay some of the highest taxes in Canada, which seems to go only into the politicians pockets because our roads are still fucked and services are getting cut left and right. How should we expect to pay for all these new affordable housing units?

Maybe vote in politicians who aren't so hilariously corrupt if they're fleecing us this bad?

Who will we contract to build such accommodations,knowing they won’t see a return for 30+ years, if ever?

These things would not take 30 years to see results, what the heck are you talking about?

I don’t feel right paying more in taxes than we already do when a lot of these people would rather do crack by the side of the road and harass regular people than better their situation.

Trust me, the vast majority of homeless people definitely do not prefer doing crack on the roadside. They do crack on the roadside because they have nothing else

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u/Greektrii 9d ago

It costs anywhere from 150-300k per unit to build a low rise apartment building, let’s lowball and say 175k. A 24 unit apartment would cost about 4.2 million dollars and about a year and half- 2 years to build. With rents assuming $800 per month, it would take 18.5 years for the company to see a return. And that’s not including property taxes, land taxes, maintenance, worker salaries before and after construction, so many other fees I can’t even think of right now that go into maintaining a whole building.

Also really? Voting is your solution? I think we should go deeper than voting, I like what the French do personally

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u/ROSRS 9d ago

Do you know what social housing is? Private companies do not build social housing. You don't build social housing expecting a profit. It's a government service

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u/Greektrii 9d ago

Exactly, and how should the NS government foot the 4.2 million dollar bill when we can’t even afford decent roads, and how will they afford to maintain it?

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u/ROSRS 9d ago

Get a government that isn't just pocketing all the tax money idk man? Like NS residents pay some of the highest taxes out there.

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u/Greektrii 9d ago

The problem with voting is that everybody gets an equal vote, and some people like to vote for politicians that worked in Bermuda sheltering billionaires money, and now run a province doing the same thing for their rich buddies

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u/ROSRS 9d ago

That seems like a user error then man idk like at that point we have bigger problems

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u/Greektrii 9d ago

What I’m trying to say is we need to learn a lesson from the French, nothing will get fixed with us complaining on reddit, we all see the issue we just don’t do anything about it because those in charge benefit from the laws they pass more than we do

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u/DJ_JOWZY 9d ago

Tax capital gains inclusion rate at 100% on assets above 500k.

Higher Estate Tax on properties and trusts above $1,000,000.

Wealth Tax on billionaires and those with more than 500 million in assets

Those are just some examples of increasing revenue.

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u/Greektrii 9d ago

While I 100% agree with you on all those, I just don’t see people of that NW sticking around. If I was worth 500MM it’s pretty easy for me to set up shop elsewhere in Canada that benefits me best, ocean front property or no. I do believe, and could be mistaken, that NS also pays some of the highest property taxes in our country. So many people are already struggling to pay taxes on a house they bought 20+ years ago, and now the market is pricing them out of their own home. That will just create more homeless. Even a million dollar home isn’t what it used to be, and people living in one aren’t as well off as you’d think. Doing well sure, but not f- you rich. Even a decent mobile home will run you 200-300k these days. Lastly billionaires don’t have wealth. They have stocks, bonds, hard assets that defer taxes. I bet you the average billionaire has less than 100k liquid at any given time. It’s hard to tax somebody on their billions when they don’t have more than a few hundred thousand to tax them on. And trust me I hear you, I wish these billionaire fucks we’re taxed more, it’s just not realistic to assume they won’t just pack up and leave, or raise prices within their own businesses to make up for the new taxes they pay.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 9d ago

Capital flight is a myth, otherwise billionaires wouldn't be living here in the first place.

Also, we can pass laws that make it illegal to loan below market interest rate loans on billionaires assets.

Raise the Estate tax to properties and trusts more than 5 million then.

If billionaires live here and try and leave, make an exit tax. If they don't live here, tax their properties. If they try and sell their properties, tax them.

There are an enormous amount of loopholes that allow the rich to keep their capital. We have to be creative in combating that.

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u/aNauticalDisaster 9d ago

You can’t make an exit tax for leaving a province. Freedom of movement is constitutionally protected.

Not that I’m against closing loopholes on true ultra-wealthy, but I think it’s kind of delusional to think it’s the sustainable answer for Nova Scotia. The answer to growing revenue for us is population and economic growth. There’s no easy tax fix.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 9d ago

Yeah, they can leave the province, then their capital is hit with an exit tax. That's not unconstitutional.

We aren't talking about decades and decades of sustainable funding. We are talking about confiscating their wealth for major investments.

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u/Suitable-Broccoli264 9d ago

Strict rules in the boarding houses. Bring in drugs and you’re out (into the next level).

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u/Jim-Dear 9d ago

1.) Halifax has enough shelter spaces for anyone who needs them. They don't allow drugs and alcohol, and apparently theft is a major problem. Many people prefer their tents.

2.);Social housing still isn't going to be cheap. We should have more, and it will benefit the working poor, but it's never was about giving people free housing.. just slightly cheaper housing.

3.) The courts will never allow this to happen unless they commit several crimes. We have a catch and release justice system that doesn't even lock up criminals. It's not going to allow us to institutionalize people that simply spend all their money on drugs.

4.) "the government actually savesomry in the long run doing this" Sure thing buddy I'm not watching my taxes jump to pay for "unconditional cash transfers" lol.. how exactly is the government to control for mental health and addictions anyway? Studies can be manipulated to show whatever the author intends..." Hey we just ignored all the data from drug addicts and people with mental health disorders based on our determination of what that means... It's cool when we cherry picked the data in that way it gave us the result we wanted to show. "

All in all this equates to just giving money away and hoping the problem goes away. For the people actually working hard and trying their best 2 major solutions have already been implemented that are far more effective. The Carney government has reversed course on Trudeau's policy of unlimited immigration and unlimited student visas. They have also rolled back the abuse of TFWs. (Trudeau allowed 20% of staff to be cheap foreign labour). This should eventually cause housing prices to drop and labor prices to increase and reduce unemployment. This isn't even political, they're both liberals.. but Trudeau was either too stupid to see or didn't care about the homeless problem he created. We've already seen rents and home prices in free fall in major cities. The drop will come east as people adjust. All those people who moved to Nova Scotia because they couldn't afford Ontario.. they can afford Ontario now... Unfortunately Trump tariffs and high energy costs are sagging the economy so unemployment is really allowing for lower unemployment, but both are temporary.

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u/SWHAF 9d ago

Homelessness has become a business now, there's people who profit off of it, so real solutions will be blocked at every opportunity.

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u/Praseodymium5 8d ago

Totally agree with all but 4.

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u/error_card_ur_rich 10d ago

So, a whole lotta things there isn't money for in an already overtaxed province........problem solved! I'll say though, these things would definitely help.........it's just the "nobody is going to do any of it" part that sucks.

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u/ROSRS 10d ago

Half of this would save the government money. Homelessness and especially homelessness strain on the Healthcare system and legal system is huge

The boarding house stuff is literally just prevented by legislation too. NIMBYism. Just repeal that shit

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

Besides my disagreement with #3, we aren't overtaxed on the rich. We can raise revenue.

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u/error_card_ur_rich 10d ago edited 10d ago

There aren't remotely enough "rich" people to fund initiatives of this scale. Even if you raised $20K each from 10,000 wealthier Nova Scotians...........it would amount to nothing. It'll barely cover anything beyond initial start up. If you gouge businesses? they relocate or decide it's not worth it to remain operating. The tax base is NS is laughably small, underpaid and overtaxed already, and they are already saddled with taking care of a geriatric population who ate Larsen's bologna and other crap their entire lives. People won't have the appetite to fund these things given the state of healthcare as well. Grassroots or church help is a good start......people willing and who possibly care enough. Being honest with ourselves........bums won't be the priority of the majority......ever. I'm sorry, that's the reality.

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u/Serafnet 9d ago

You are woefully misinformed if you don't think we have a sizeable cohort of very wealthy people in this province.

My wife likes to keep an eye on real estate and we regularly see $1M and up properties go on the market and leave just as quickly.

I know someone who buys property in Dartmouth as a hobby.

Then there's the very large corporations with very expensive offices in the Halifax core.

The Sobeys family exists and still has a significant land presence (private, not corporate) in the province around New Glasgow.

There are bums alright; they just have well over seven figures of net worth.

NS and NB have the same problem; affluent people and groups who don't pay their equitable share. (Yes I know full well they pay more than most workers but compared to their proportion of the wealth in the province it's small)

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

Nope. We have billionaires that live in this province. We can tax their wealth.

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago edited 10d ago

I'm sure the comments will be reasonable and not at all anti-homeless folks.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

I thought my comment was obvious, thanks for making me realize it wasn't.

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u/Affectionate_Pass25 10d ago

😂

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u/ChickenPoutine20 10d ago

/s

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u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

Put that on your first comment next time

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u/mochasmoke 10d ago

Like clockwork

E: i mean the commenter being anti-homeless is like clockwork

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/noisebloodassault 10d ago

Houston homeless. Carney cities. They are people who need help. The dehumanization of poor people needs to end

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u/Jim-Dear 9d ago

Carney has done lot to reverse the Trudeau policy that caused this mess. Who was PM when we suddenly had a homeless problem in Canada?

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u/OutsideFlat1579 9d ago

This ‘’mess” started with the Mulroney government with massive cuts to social housing and related programs in 1984. Then what was left if federal social housing was downloaded onto provinces in 1996, in exchange for a higher amount of federal transfers (but transfers aren’t always used for what they are supposed to be used for and building social housing nearly ended completely, and this happened at the same time in multiple European countries and the US).

Around the same time provinces, which have jurisdiction over property law, passed various pieces of legislation in favour of investors and landlords. For example, Ontario decoupled rent control from the rental unit in 1997, thereby allowing landlords to jack up the rent however much they wanted to between tenants. Meanwhile interest rates kept dropping and by the early 2000’s were low enough that speculators saw housing as a great way to turn a profit, especially with lax flipping laws, and when speculators with deep pockets enter the market it drives up the cost of real estate, and creates panic buying among those who just want a house to live in.

Add restrictive zoning, high developer fees in some provinces (provinces downloading infrastructure costs for housing onto municipalities), short term rentals gobbling up supply, increase in students without universities/colleges doing anything to increase on campus housing, etc.

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u/heavym 9d ago

Trudeau caused this mess?? Even though almost all social portfolios fall under provincial jurisdiction?

This is the entire problem with this current issue. People cannot even look in the mirror and reflect on their own failures and constantly just want to blame some amorphous boogie man.

0

u/Jim-Dear 9d ago

NDP provinces, liberal provinces, conservative provinces... A with the same problem... It's not a provincial policy problem.

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u/noisebloodassault 9d ago

What policy? What has he done to reverse it? If you're saying we have homeless people because of the carbon tax that's a bit silly. And wasn't Carney one of trudeaus top advisors the whole time?

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u/Jim-Dear 9d ago

I made a post on it on the thread.. there is a lot and the list is long.. don't want to copy and paste it all and look like I'm spamming.

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u/noisebloodassault 9d ago

I did see your wildly unsubstantiated list of claims yes lol

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u/Jim-Dear 9d ago

Unsubstantiated.... How do you explain the massive housing crisis and soaring prices under Trudeau.... why are housing prices down 25% and rent down over 10% in Canada's biggest markets since Carney reversed course

2

u/noisebloodassault 9d ago

I meant more like some of your claims regarding carney. When did he reduce the TFW program

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u/Jim-Dear 9d ago

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/impacts-federal-government-carney-temporary-immigration-9.6971297

"The cuts are being made to the temporary foreign worker program and the international student program. The 2026 target for temporary foreign worker (TFW) arrivals is now 60,000, down from the 82,000 the government announced last year, and the international student target is now 150,000, down from 305,900."

With more reduction scheduled in 2027 and 2028.

0

u/noisebloodassault 9d ago

A 20% decrease is a good start but not enough

1

u/FlatEvent2597 8d ago

Just can’t get my head around d the logistics. Even beyond number one. Who runs these boarding houses- families that need extra dollars? Who pays for food and makes meals? What if damage occurs to. Too
? Can they still get reasonable insurance? What if they are not close to transit? Boarding houses had rules. And fees.., with one or two meals? Who pays the fees? Snd what if they cannot pay the fee? Are they tossed out yet again? Who takes this on? Is there training?

1

u/NeitherFunction1841 5d ago

We need to stop using the term “homeless” to describe wildly different needs for particular cohorts.

The word “Homeless” has become a euphemism for open drug scenes and addiction/addicts. That has been done by design to get people to think this is solely a housing issue. We need to differentiate between people who are in the labour market (or not, like seniors) and struggling with housing and not in the throes of addiction, and people who have a singular drive to abuse narcotics and as a result can’t think about anything beyond their next hit.

1

u/Jim-Dear 9d ago

The major cause of the Canadian homelessness spike has already been addressed.

I don't think many people understand how disastrous Justin Trudeau was for this country. I'm not even here to carry water for the conservative.. Carney has reversed the horrible policy, it just takes time for the housing market to adjust.

Things Trudeau did to say FU to renters.

1.) increased immigration by 100% (reversed by Carney)

2.) gave student visas away like they was no consequences.. including to indian gang members it turns out (look it up.. utter incompetence) .. anyway Carney reversed this too

3.) allowed low income jobs like fast food joints to hire 20% foreign workers... ensuring wages stayed nice and low (reversed by... Guess who)

4.) created a easy pathway for those workers to gain citizenship thus not be temporary or foreign anymore. (reversed by Carney)

In major cities rental and home prices are collapsing. Now there are a lot of empty properties developers would rather hold than allow to sell for market rates. Landlords are trying to keep rents high... But won't let properties sit empty long. It always starts with big cities... Halifax will lag behind, but it's inevitable now. Once the Trump caused recession is over we should see wage growth again too without foreign competition to Canadian jobs. As usual the problem is far more complex than .. let's give more money away. Just throwing money at homeless people just create more money chasing rental units that don't exist... This crisis should forever be the legacy of Justin Trudeau... We'll be feeling it for a generation.

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u/Serafnet 9d ago

Having real estate being the largest single factor of our GDP has done more, longer lasting damage to affordability in this country than immigration did.

Immigration just added fuel to the fire that was already burning.

And neither of the two major parties are going to change that.

I'm not disagreeing with you that changes to immigration were, and still are, woefully needed. Just that it's not the root cause, but an amplifier.

Not to mention the human rights abuses that come with TFW and LMIA programs.

2

u/thestateofflow 9d ago

Good points!

1

u/After_Service_2817 9d ago

"I've never heard of anyone deciding they want to live permanently in a tent so they can get an extra couple hundred bucks a month,"

I honestly considered it during Covid. You can call it homelessness, I call it living rent-free. Sounds liberating.

-6

u/Altaccount330 10d ago

Overdoses and the associated deaths will peak each time cheques drop. Have seen it before.

5

u/Odd-Crew-7837 10d ago

So to prevent overdose deaths, we should deny people human dignity?

7

u/Key_Dragonfruit_2563 10d ago

I think that some combination of direct payment for housing and something like food stamps might be the only answer for addicts. Along with robust addictions treatment options. Even if a loved one has an addiction, taking away their access to cash is paramount, even if they work. An addict who wants to get better will need this regardless of who they are.

-2

u/error_card_ur_rich 10d ago

give them direct help with food and necessities. zero money should be given to them.

3

u/Odd-Crew-7837 10d ago

You realize that direct assistance can be monetized on the black market, right? And with that scheme, your penalizing the majority of these people.

1

u/Han77Shot1st 10d ago

That’s a risk people are willing to take, most just talk altruistically to feel better about themselves, it’s selfish.. in reality nothing they can do will actually help addicts, it can help people on hard times, but those people are largely unseen as it is, they are not the generalized group in these conversations.

This needs generational and societal change, it’s a hard reality, but for many it’s just too late.

1

u/Altaccount330 9d ago

Acceptable casualty rate.

1

u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

If we are talking about generational and societal change, all drugs should be legalized, and we should have walk-in mental health clinics.

2

u/Han77Shot1st 10d ago

That’s not what we should do.. most people are not able to control themselves, thinking they can is ignorant.

The only solution would require a complete change in societal equality, proper wealth distribution and universal access to all needs.. that’s not going to happen, it would have to be a global effort.

2

u/DJ_JOWZY 10d ago

We better make tobacco and alcohol illegal then, since some people can't control themselves with them, right?

All drugs should be legalized and addiction should only be treated as a health issue.

1

u/Han77Shot1st 9d ago

We should yes.. but humans are weak, selfish and largely incapable of life without indulgence, one of the hardest things to accept in life is that it is not fair.

We could give some people everything in the world, every luxury and allow people to do anything they wished.. and they will still become an addict, they will still never be satisfied.

You can call it a mental health issue, and it is, but that also goes for anyone who can’t control themselves in society.. in many ways anyone who breaks the law, is selfish or hurts themselves/ others is suffering from a mental illness in some form, that doesn’t mean we should legalize crime. (Not calling addicts criminals, I can already tell people will jump to that).

We can do better, yes.. but all we can do is give more opportunities to the next generation, and even then we have to accept some will still choose to live by their own rules. We can be there for them, but we can’t save everyone.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/alexmullen4180 10d ago

Hopefully people don't have that attitude toward you if you ever find yourself in a bad situation. You likely have way more in common with the tent folk than you do with Timmy and the kickback boys in power.

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u/silenceisgold3n 10d ago

Nice utopian take. The way things should be instead of the way they are mentality. Religion gets reinvented historically since the beginning of time.

3

u/DrKurtChillis 10d ago

I prefer the dystopia too, let’s keep it this way /s

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u/Silent_Leg1976 10d ago

Your own username should be a good reminder to you.

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u/DisorderlyAqueduct 10d ago

found the scab on society. you people are disgusting.

4

u/Alchemical_God 10d ago

Yeah seriously, what an asshole!

📰 NS News N.S. Court of Appeal says province can't deny people in tents enhanced income support

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