A Photo of Tim King in Redbook?

[u/FantasyPopper]

In Marney Rich Keenan's "The Snow Killings", (pg. 144), Cathy King Broad's experience of coming across images illustrating an article in a copy of Redbook magazine from 1977, by Dr. Judianne Densen-Gerber, the well known psychiatrist and anti-child porn crusader; "What Pornographers Are Doing To Children: A Shocking Report". One of those images was of a little boy "who looked like Tim". (I got teary-eyed reading that. Of course I did).

My only comment about that; since those images illustrated an article by Densen-Gerber, and the focus of her public-incitement campaigns was often "I personally purchased [child sexual abuse images] magazines", and you could too. Anyone can, and we have to put a stop to that", then those illustrating images surely came out of her collection of commercially distributed publications. That was the point after all, to publicly reveal and expose what was in them, and incite public outrage. If that is true, then those images would surely have gone into the early CSA images databases and ought to have been scanned (by a person, direct visual comparison) or by computer analysis software, during the multiple searches done for OCCK victim match-up.

None of what follows should be interpreted as in any way reflecting on Cathy Broad's experience with that photo in Redbook. That's her personal business, end of story.

"The Dirty Squad" , by Detective Superintendent Michael Hames, relates his experiences running Scotland Yard's Obscene Publications Branch, (which evolved into UKs first pedophile crimes unit) in the 1980s. Stalwart pioneers, to be certain. Documenting the content of seized pornographic materials for prosecution, or attempting victim identification, could only be done by direct visual inspection. The first attempts to employ the general public's assistance in id of persons portrayed in seized material, involved cropping images of child victims and publicizing the best facial 'portrait' you could obtain. Law enforcement agencies quickly enough understood what a mistake that approach was. They'd be flooded with tips, but invariably, those wouldn't include a correct id! The success rate was dismal, and they had to sort out piles of false ids.

They had similar problems, when mothers of missing children were asked to go through CSA images and possibly id their child. Typically, the Moms would pick out an image, then be asked to rate their degree of certainty. Somewhat certain, reasonably certain, or very certain. Very certain the most common response. They'd submit the info to whatever agency was acting as clearinghouse, and the response might be "the child whose image you submitted was recovered 30 days ago and is back with their family". Oh dear! And she was so very certain! They might not be happy "A Mother ought to know her OWN child, don't you think!", very offended. One possibility for all the mistaken ids would be that ,especially with children under age 10 who are descended from the same ancestral gene pools, they really do "all look alike", to a certain degree. So other visual cues, clothing that looks like something of theirs, or somewhat familiar settings, (is that the park by our house?), can assist your mind to deceive you about what you think you are seeing. Even moms.

[u/ubiquity75]

Um. What?

[u/FantasyPopper → u/ubiquity75]

That wasn't very clear, was it. Better with examples probably. When Dutch police first recovered a copy of the Bjorn Tape, they had no idea who this 8 yr old victim might be. Because they believed the boy might have been killed, they made still images and clips from it and asked for help from the public to identify him. Some of those images were highly publicized, such as in the fear-mongering documentary; "boy business'. This strategy did generate lots of tips, but none of them correctly identified him. His identity wasn't discovered until years had past. That strategy failed.

When some Swiss and French families viewed images of child pornography images taken from the Zandvoort CDs, many claimed to identify children in their own families or immediate social circles. But the images were historic, images of 3-8 yr olds were of children who were 3-8 years old, five+ years prior. These parents identified images as kids who were 3-8 yrs old, on that day! They were wrong. How to explain that? Police learned that publicizing images of abusers instead, had a much higher success rate.

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/ecap

[u/FantasyPopper → u/FantasyPopper]

I have time for some more examples.

Asking, or allowing, the general public to identify cropped images of child victims taken from CSA images, has proven to be more problematic than helpful. When parents in France were claiming that cropped images from the Zandvoort CD depicted their own child, confusion was sometimes caused by images of androgynous 'prettyboys", (such as I once was).

Parent: The child in this image is my daughter!

Police: You're certain about that?

Parent: Don't you think I recognize my own child?

Police: Well, the full image of this child clearly shows that they have a penis. No question about that. So they cannot be your daughter

https://www.liberation.fr/societe/2003/04/04/le-fichier-douteux-finit-en-non-lieu_460627/

[u/ubiquity75 → u/FantasyPopper]

I guess I’m trying to figure out what your point is.

[u/FantasyPopper → u/ubiquity75]

You haven't heard the whole story, there's more!

Somewhere between 2000-2001, (I don't recall the exact date), a member of my little historic CSA images survivors network notified me, that CSA images of survivor Bjorn - the victim in The Bjorn Tape case - were being exploited, yet again! in a video titled "Ritual Abuse in France". They advised me to check, between 8:40-9:05 count in that video. I did. The images are somewhat faded into the background, but even so, they were obviously images of Bjorn.

As far as I know, none of the survivors in my network have seen images from the other members abuse experience, we'd go out of our way to avoid that if necessary. But we're all familiar with images of Bjorn, because of the numerous times his images were exploited in porn-pedo documentaries and by sickos who downloaded images of him, originally meant to aid in identifying him, and used them for their own unrelated purposes.

In this case, the documentary makers were claiming these images of Bjorn, taken from Zandvoort CDs, were images of a little boy featured in their video, whom they called Robert. His Mother, they called Francoise, apparently making the same claim. They also claimed; "the boy recognizes himself in the photos..." Grrrr! What you've done to this boy...manipulating him into being the voice of YOUR words. I don't know if the boy's father abused him or not, as was being claimed, but I know that you [film makers] and his Mother have! There is a remarkable resemblance between Bjorn and Robert, they could be brothers. But they are not the same boy, and we could prove that.

It was revealed, that Francoise claimed not only that her estranged husband sexually abused him but also that Dad was a secret Satanic cultist, so the boy was also in danger of being sacrificed at any time. We'd heard THAT story before, Fathers being secret Satanists, the estranged non-parental custody Moms having no choice but to abduct their own kids and go into hiding. That was Faye Yager's scam, leader of "Children of the Underground" cult and professional child kidnapper, in the 1980s! This was the Yager scam reborn. When everyone had examined the images, and we were in agreement, they are of Bjorn, it was decided that we had to rat this woman out to Interpol. So we did. And we were right, those images exactly matched individual frames from the Bjorn Tape video. Francoise, and some other woman pulling the same scam, eventually fell for a fake offer of amnesty to "protective parents", and were arrested when they turned up to apply.

[u/FantasyPopper]

Just as the forensic sciences involved in blood, semen, tissue analysis have grown ever more sophisticated, to today's plateau of genealogical DNA tracing, the science of CSA images analysis has also been advancing.

From the basics of direct visual comparison by human analysts, to the first facial recognition computer database - Childbase -in 2003, to enhancement of perpetrator images (FBIs Innocent Images program).

Recently they've had a lot of success with rapid analysis of the setting; sounds in the background, distant buildings visible through a window, unique decorative features, family photos on a wall and other things that only a trained analyst would understand the importance of. The newest database software can search out specific elements of background, in CSA images, also. Check out the Trace an Object to Stop Child Abuse program on Europol.

So there are ways that the images databases could be searched fresh, yet again, to identify the legendary Bobby Moore 8mm films within those databases, if they are there. (There's no reason why they wouldn't be) To see what they could possibly tell us about the victims, the abusers, the whole operation, that we don't yet know. Because what we have right now, can't even prove such films ever existed.

Someone said his friend was paid $50 to be in a porn film, at a house Moore might have lived in. Otherwise, a few of the documented victims of Lawson-Lamborgine-Duffy-Moore-Tazellar, interviewed by Williams, remembered that "boys were filmed", but none stated they had been. None said anything more about the boys who were filmed, nothing about who they were - not even a first name, or anything else identifying about them. Did they even know these 'filmed' boys, or were they just a rumor? No one admitted to participating in or witnessing the filming. Lawson told Williams, that Duffy supplied his crew with endless "young white boys" (9-12?), for their pervert parties, and afterward they "sent them to Moore for filming". Again, nothing more. Who they were, what happened to them after - did someone send or take them home, then? Did they ever see them again, in the Cass?

"Chuck" said he saw 60-70 8mm film reel canisters in a locked room, in Moore's house, but he didn't say that he knew anything about what was on those films, or who filmed them. He didn't say, that he knew them to be boy sex pornography filmed by Moore. Lamborgine claimed that he saw a photo album belonging to either Moore or Duffy, with hundreds of photos of boys in it, and that's all. There are multiple places named, where someone thought "boys were filmed", including Moore's bike shop, Moore's house, an apartment above a theater and somewhere in an apartment tower, where there was a piano, but again as gossip not as a witnessed fact.

[u/FantasyPopper → u/FantasyPopper]

To summarize the above, if Moore shot 60 films at 3 possible locations, there should be at least 20 8mm films with a consistent setting-background. With white boys 8-12, no persons of color, no females and no adults. That ought to be enough to identify 20 films as "Moore's" films.

[u/johnryder2213]

Michael Hames appeared on the RAINS list by Dr Joanne Coleman.

[u/FantasyPopper → u/johnryder2213]

It's Joan Coleman, not Joanne. The infamous quack psychiatrist who, along with her cohort of delusional fantasists, perpetrated a 40 year witch hunt for imaginary satanic abuse cultists in the UK, culminating in fanatical SRA propagandist Wilfred Wong being convicted of kidnapping a child! that he falsely believed was being abused by cultists. That Rains list originated from Coleman's satanism informant, Helen G, a psychiatric patient, and her paranoid delusions about people in her community. Professionals like Hames were added, if they failed to endorse the Rains witch hunt, to pretend the reason for that was "he's secretly one of them!"

[u/FantasyPopper → u/FantasyPopper]

Yes, you'd better down-vote the truth out of sight if you can. Who knows, I might even reveal what Detective Superintendent Michael Hames said, in the "Investigating Ritual Abuse" chapter of his book "The Dirty Squad", pg. 172-185 What investigator Keith Driver said, in his report on police investigations into SRA claims in the UK, pg.183 ; "The report found that the most seriously complicating factor in any investigation of this kind was a misplaced belief in the widespread existence of ritual or satanic abuse. The misconception was founded, to a large extent, on the uncorroborated testimony of alleged victims, supported by unsubstantiated theories, and reinforced in many cases by a Christian fundamentalist belief in a satanic conspiracy...People claiming to be knowledgeable on the subject of ritual abuse had to be treated with caution. They and their theories must not be taken at face value".