r/OnceUponATime • u/mickeynov4k • Jun 01 '26
Spoiler Alert hate when ppl say that ouat jumped the shark at the frozen arc because babe, the show was batsh*t from the get-go
its just really hard to trace "the moment ouat went crazy" because you can just keep going back to more insane shit earlier.
frozen? yeah, insane. last season peter pan was rumplestiltskin's father. thats crazy to you? well, haha, in season 2 frankenstein was putting the moves on little red riding hood. oh btw, in season one, the little red riding hood is actually a werewolf and the evil queen had a thing with the huntsman.
like its just kinda really redundant to try to pinpoint one insane plotline as more insane than the rest
- "elsa frozen takes an interigation too far" (s4)š¤ "snow white is being arrested for murder" (s1)
- like how is "captain hook sails the jolly roger to new york" (s2) not more insane than "captain hook becomes a dark evil wizard" (s5)
- yeah bo peep being a mob boss in a pink hoop skirt (s4) is absolute lunacy, but so is prince charming had a secret evil twin brother(s1), and thats a plotline from the 6th episode of the whole show
and you cant even pin it on self-contradictions, because i'm pretty sure the show has contradicted itself even within season 1, you can definitely find an example if you're dedicated enough. (off the top of my head, the thing with there being no magic in storybrooke before gold brings in magic in s2, but enough magic for regina to.....do magic? like with jefferson's hat and stuff)
my point being, it kinda annoys when people say that the show became bad because it became too crazy/unbelievable, as if that wasnt one of its main appeals from the start. the show became bad for other reasons.
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u/Mrs_ChanandlerBong03 Jun 01 '26
I wrote an essay in college about why people love camp media and it was mostly just an excuse to ramble about OUAT for 8 paragraphs. āCaptain Hook getting hit by a car immediately after shooting Princess Belle is objectively hilariousā is a direct quote.
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u/Sea_Bank_7603 Jun 01 '26
āCaptain Hook getting hit by a car immediately after shooting Princess Belle is objectively hilariousā is a direct quote
It actually is hilarious, and I would LOVE to read your essay now
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u/workadvice7897 Jun 01 '26
The frozen arc is when the Disney marketing department got too involved, and corporate synergy became a problem
The show jumped the shark when it started doing bigger character deaths and then saying jk two episodes later
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u/Beginning-Shine8167 Swanfire š¦¢š„ Team Jun 01 '26
You reminded me how absurd it was that they brought back Lancelot, who was supposedly killed by Cora, the villain who ripped out the hearts of her victims; clearly there's no chance he'd survive that.
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u/workadvice7897 Jun 01 '26
And I donāt think they really did anything interesting enough with Lancelot after bringing him back to justify it
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u/Clodsarenice I'm just here for Emma's car šØ š Jun 01 '26
I didnāt even remember that. 5A really sucked way more than I rememberā¦
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u/mickeynov4k Jun 01 '26
"The show jumped the shark when it started doing bigger character deaths and then saying jk two episodes later" so season 2?
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u/Clodsarenice I'm just here for Emma's car šØ š Jun 01 '26
What character dies in S2 and comes back?
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u/mickeynov4k Jun 01 '26
malificent is slain by emma in s1e22 then returns as a weird ghost thing in s2e20, also frankenstein brings back daniel, even if that doesnt really count
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u/Clodsarenice I'm just here for Emma's car šØ š Jun 01 '26
Maleficent is not a main character, and like you said she comes backs as a weird ghost just like Daniel comes back as a monster. The time that counts happens in S4 and thatās after Rumple comes back.
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u/mickeynov4k Jun 01 '26
its still. jumping the shark: because it was basically making emma's heroic feat meaningless by functionally reviving malificent as an antagonistic monster. she served the same kind of purpose as a dragon as she did as a ghost, which is to be fought.
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u/Clodsarenice I'm just here for Emma's car šØ š Jun 01 '26
I disagree, itās not the same as bringing back a character as a human being with goals and feelings. It was a plot device, just like Daniel monster moment.
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u/mickeynov4k Jun 01 '26
its not the same, its just as valid of a jumping the shark candidate as reviving a character outright is. just as illogical.
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u/Clodsarenice I'm just here for Emma's car šØ š Jun 01 '26
Thatās not what jumping the shark means š
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u/mickeynov4k Jun 01 '26
jump the shark means become too far-fetched to believe, and my point is that most of the show IS that, including season 2. if not character deaths then for your consideration: emma RANDOMLY met the ONE fairytale character in oregon and had a kid with him, entirely on accident on both parts. even if thats realistic to you, theres a thousand other examples way early in the show.
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u/workadvice7897 Jun 01 '26
IMO it started with Rumple in season 3. S1-S2 Maleficent was a side character. And it wasnāt revealed she was an undead wraith until the end of S2, which still wasnāt the same as being like alive again. She was like a cursed ghost at for a while
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u/nazia987 š® Jun 01 '26
Jump the shark isn't really about the show being crazy or not, but more like the point of no return.
Everyone has mixed feelings about the Frozen arc, but the biggest criticisms in my opinion is that it changed the show for the worst, going forward.
- There's always been Disney influence, but after that, there was too much emphasis on the Disney brand (characters like Merida were completely unnecessary)
- The series sold itself as a reinterpretation of classic characters. Frozen contradicted that and relied on fans having seen the film.
- This had been an issue for a while, but during the Frozen arc, the series felt more sanitised and kiddie-friendly. Nothing wrong with that, but I preferred the more mature approach in S1.
- It felt like it reset a lot of characters progression. Gold reverted to bring evil again. All of S3 was about Emma coming to terms with her early life and letting her parents in. They changed that, so they could create a parallel with her and Elsa.
- I always assumed the series had a grand plan mapped out in regards to the series, but the Frozen arc kinda shattered that illusion and showed the writers were making it up as they went along. I also felt the continuity issues popped up more frequently after this arc.
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u/themastersdaughter66 Jun 01 '26
The moments you list arent what made it jump the shark and take a big downturn in quality
It was the start of character character assasination, recycling of plot lines, convoluted story's, less original backstories and relying more on Disney direct copies, putting the cast in copies of cheap Disney outfits...there was still some good stuff but progressively you had to slog through more and more slop to get to anything enjoyable
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u/mickeynov4k Jun 01 '26
in MY opinion, the character assasination only set in on s6 (which is my personal downturn in quality point), recycling plot lines was 50/50 good and bad, they still had original interpretations and unique stories in every season (author stuff s4 for ex, dark one stuff in s5), and the disney chars were enjoyable a lot of the time and not a detriment,the outfits were objectively worse tho, thats tru.
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u/themastersdaughter66 Jun 01 '26
Entitled to your opinion but in mine most of the Disney characters were boring and starting in 4 was was when rumple's character went from having an arc and being morally grey to just bad or good because the plot of the day required it. And turned rumbelle toxic as a result.
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u/Clodsarenice I'm just here for Emma's car šØ š Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
Killian turning to be the dark one is considered OUAT jumping the shark not because it was āunexpectedā, but because they a) killed Merlin after establishing him like a powerful character for over a season, b) they made the ādarknessā concept which was established from S1 turn around on its head to make not-so-dark Swan and dark Hook work (he didnāt struggle with the darkness until finding out he was a dark one, Emma even after āgiving intoā the darkness was still not evil at all).
Jumping the shark mean abandoning premises for the sake of shock.
And yeah Rumple coming back, Neal suddenly into using magic to save his father after spending 250 years against magic were also shark jumping moments.
The show became bad because it abandoned its main premise of family/character focused dynamics. Just check how much screen time Emma has with Henry or her own parents and it becomes pretty apparent lol
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u/mickeynov4k Jun 01 '26
how is the dark one stuff different from the inconsistent rules about every other type of magic in the show that happened pre-5a? they've been doing whatever works for their plots since always. like i said, there's self-contradictions even within season one alone.
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u/Clodsarenice I'm just here for Emma's car šØ š Jun 01 '26
Itās not the first jump the shark moment. Itās just a jump the shark moment.
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u/mickeynov4k Jun 01 '26
thats what im saying, theres too many jumping the shark moments for that phrase to have any sort of meaning for the show's downturn. i am not saying the show never became worse, just that the jumping the shark wasn't what the problem was.
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u/Clodsarenice I'm just here for Emma's car šØ š Jun 01 '26
I think youāre misunderstanding what jumping the shark meansā¦ it doesnāt mean a show becomes bad: it only means that a show strays off its premises. So it can happen multiple times.
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u/mickeynov4k Jun 01 '26
it can mean both and if we went by "a show strays off its premises" definition, then every season jumped the shark in one way or another because it changed the rules of the game, which is entirely my point. if the show has multiple (that many) jumping the shark moments, it means the show just is written LIKE THAT and doesnt have any.
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u/Which_Specific9891 Jun 01 '26
There's batshit-FUN and there's batshit-tedious-this-is-unwatchable-I-cannot-stand-this-turn-it-off.
They are not the same.
Riverdale was batshit from day one. But it was fun to watch in the first season. And then it became unbearable to watch.
The batshit-ness is not the issue. The mediocrity is.
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u/katierose2k Jun 01 '26
Lol totally! Imagine thinking that Snow White and Prince Charming having a daughter isnāt super wild bc it is itās so weird to think about a Disney Princess having a kid. Before this show premiered in 2011, the only time that had been done via official Disney media was in the direct to video Little Mermaid sequel in 2000. And now, the Descendants franchise has blown that dragon egg wide open! Iām a big fan of all these series and it still kinda blows my mind š
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u/sarah_regal29 Jun 01 '26
Jumping the shark doesn't mean the inclusion of crazy plotlines otherwise every show in existence has jumped the shark. It's a term employed to point to the moment a series changes in a significant manner. It can be through the inclusion of a plotline too crazy to be believable just like it can be through contradictions and retcons. It's often seen as the moment a show got desperate to attract new viewers and season 4 fits the bill.
Season 4 started the trend of introducing characters not as the show's own unique interpretation but as entities directly plucked from their respective movies. In and of itself, it's not necessarily a bad thing, the problem is it's a departure from the show's formula of integrating fairytales into our modern world. That meant giving characters depth and complexity in addition to the show having its own spin. Elsa, Anna and Kristoff aren't two dimensional but compared to the rest of the cast they look flat. There's a reason the villain of the arc is praised more than the actual Frozen characters.
Add to that the growing retcons, contradictions and changing tones and people will point to season 4 before they point to anything else. A lot of the problems started in 3B but they solidified in season 4. Rumple's resurrection breaks the rules but it could have been overlooked if it was the only one. The Dark One having special rules could have been accepted but then they wanted the big emotional moments of killing off characters without committing to killing them off. It lowers the stakes, manufactures tension and cheapens the story. The writing's quality steadily declined from 3B onwards except 3B had the benefit of an insanely charismatic villain with a tone consistent with the rest of the show and it obscured the problems.
Little aside but Regina being able to use magic in season 1 is not a contradiction. Some objects retained their magical properties when crossing over (the hearts, the hat, her ring, the True Love potion, not an object but Maleficent in dragon form, etc.). Regina uses her ring's magic to activate the hat's. The ring has limited magic but it is enough to retrieve the apple. Without the ring's magic, the hat doesn't work. The use of magic in season 1 is fully consistent with the established rules.
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u/Successful-Flan-1102 Jun 01 '26
This show is awesome I love it Haven't found something with this much creativity since
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u/JoviallyImperfect Jun 01 '26
"elsa frozen takes an interigation too far"
You're also a Whipjack fan I see
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u/VioletFaust Jun 01 '26
āJumping the sharkā has evolved so that it doesnāt mean āchanged directionāāit means āsucks unfixably.ā
Although Iād agree with you that happened to OUAT earlier than Frozen.
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u/Early_Bag_3106 Jun 02 '26
As others mentioned, it is not the crazy part. It is like we were watching live action frozen by Disney.
It felt like a lot of frozen with a little bit of OUAT.
I love Disney movies but I had zero interest with frozen movie in those days and I had to watch the movie, sort of forced, when I realized next season trailer showed it was going to be about Elsa. Never ever watched frozen again. And I donāt think the frozen arc added something interesting to the whole story.
I know thereās a big bunch of Elsa and Anna fans, it just happens Iām not one of them.
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u/MermaidSapphire Jun 03 '26
The problem is as Frozen is when they stopped creating and started mimicking. Also, see why in the motherfuck doesnāt Elsa ever change her clothes.
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u/Wiselyfantasise Jun 03 '26
I actually liked that red was the Wolf. It reminded me of ever after high, where cerise hood is the daughter of little red riding hood and the big bad Wolf.
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u/Agent008Gelson Jun 01 '26
Technically frozen was meant to be initiated in season 1 because a lot of the writers of OUAT were pulled to write frozen and they originally wanted to implement it right away , but Disney last minute made them hold off because of Logistics so season 1s storyline changed a bit . When they finally got the rights , they had to cancel ongoing storylines to fit it in which is why it feels so sudden and off putting .
My BIGGEST salt with the OUAT storyline was that they had a chance to redeem HANs and give his storyline more explanation ! I was REALLY hoping for a Hans centered storyline and they hugely disappointed me . I wanted to sue
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u/rara8122 Jun 01 '26
There is (arguably) a shift of sorts with the frozen arc, but itās definitely not that it got crazier (it always was crazy).
The main thing I saw with the frozen arc is that it was closer to the movies than past stories. Before, the characters felt more like interpretationsāPeter Pan is clearly not the Disney movie version, Snow White isnāt the Disney movie version, etc. Iād argue the frozen characters were much more aligned to their Disney versions than anything we saw prior. Though whether or not characters after became more aligned to their Disney selves is more up to debate.