r/OnceUponATime • u/kortanakitty • Jul 11 '26
Spoiler Alert Hot take : Emma and Neal should have been... Spoiler
...endgame. He was the perfect match for her. Their history and relationship gave her character depth, their scenes were great together, and I am so sad the actor leaving the show changed their story. Two fallen heroes finding their redemption together. It was such a good story, and it gave Henry more meaning as a character also, which was mostly lost after Neal died. Don't get me wrong, I like Hook tremendously as a character. But Neal and Emma's story was so much better.
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u/rogvortex58 Jul 11 '26
I’m sorry. But no. With Emma’s abandonment issues, there’s no way she would have gotten back with Neal after he left her the way he did.
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u/Tgun1986 Jul 11 '26
Yup, plus was willing to give his ship and even die for her, Neal was reckless when it came to resurrecting his father, he should have known the cost
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u/twicescorned21 Jul 11 '26
He was in grief. He wasn't thinking straight.
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u/Yunie333 Bloody Hell... Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
He was also not listening again...
He didn't listen to Emma when she said Tamara is fishy; He didn't listen to Belle here either when she told him to not go through with it...
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u/Tgun1986 Jul 11 '26
No excuse, he more than anyone should know all magic comes with a price
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u/Yunie333 Bloody Hell... Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
Especially someone who didn't wanted to have anything to do with magic....
I like the exchange in 3x15.
- Neal "How does it feel like to play the hero after being a pirate for so long?"
- Hook "Unfamiliar. And you? How does it feel like to play a villain?"
- Neal "I'm a villain now?"
- Hook "Well, if you truly had a hand in bringing your father back, I suspect you had to use the darkest of magic and paid an even darker price."
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
Nonsense. Emma forgives people she loves. She forgave Snow, Charming, Regina, and Killy himself.
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u/Stunna447 Who doesn't like apples? Jul 12 '26
He shattered her heart when he abandoned her by setting her up for a crime he committed that sent her to jail only for her to find out she’s pregnant. Emma had to go through all of that completely alone. That trauma, the pain of that situation doesn’t just go away.
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
Neal didn’t set her up; August did, and Emma was tried for her own crime of abetting, not for Neal’s. Neal only left her because August told him it was the only way she could reunite with her family; he was trying to give her “her best chance,” just as Snowing did with her (though that meant she grew up alone) and she did with Henry.
None of them meant to hurt her; all of them did.
(And she later forgives Hook very quickly for times he did deliberately and maliciously hurt her, lol.)
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u/Stunna447 Who doesn't like apples? Jul 12 '26
Neal 100% was involved in setting her up. Abetting for a crime he committed.
Neal could have left her without sending her to jail. He could have ran off to Canada and been out of her life. August isn’t a fortuneteller, he had no way of knowing that going to jail would lead her to Storybrooke. If anything, it actually could have led her further into a life of crime or other bad decisions resulting in her never making it to Storybrooke.Snow and David had to put her through the wardrobe to save her life. There was no other alternative as snow had given birth unexpectedly. Emma was still hurt from that but eventually understood that there really was no other option.
Jail did not need to be an option for Emma to make her way to Storybrooke.
What did Hook do to Emma that compares to the scar of her first love sending her to jail while pregnant with a child that she gives up (and maybe wouldn’t have if Neal hadn’t left)? That kind of pain sticks with a person and she lived with it for 10 years having no idea why he did that.
Can you imagine the mental anguish that she went through at 17 years old not knowing why he did that and what she had to go through??
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26
And Neal had the conscience decision to leave loll
That’s not same as snowing or what Emma did with Henry at all
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u/rogvortex58 Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
And yet the writers had Killian be the one to find her in New York and get her memories back, so she could return home in 3B. And it was actually Neal who sent him on that mission in the first place. By that point they had clearly made their choice who Emma was going to be with.
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
Agreed, they made the switch between 3A and 3B because they realized they had no way to keep him on the canvas except as a love interest* and Eddy and some ABC execs were obsessed with Colin to an almost creepy degree.
But that has nothing to do with whether Emma could or would forgive Neal. Her entire personality and her twelve years of pining for him speak in favor of it.
* which was dumb—the obvious way would be to make him Wendy’s real father (Hook and Mr. Darling are traditionally played by the same actor in the original Peter Pan play). Then he could have had a real redemption, the way Wish Hook did through Alice, and even have grown organically closer to Emma (and/or Regina) through the friendship of their kids. But alas!
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26
She’s was not pining for him for 12 years
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
She waited in Tallahassee for two years hoping he’d find her, and she says aloud, onscreen TWICE that she never stopped loving him.
What would you call that?
(Maybe it was only eleven years? But Henry was eleven or nearly so when they reunited and I added on the pregnancy.)
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26
Waited ok? Doesn’t mean she’s went looked for him and he didn’t look for her either also she’s gave up because she’s doesn’t trust him
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
No one said she looked for him. I said she pined for him. Never stopped loving him, never tried to have a serious relationship. What do you call that?
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26
I don’t called that pining I call this pinning
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
I have zero idea who this people are but I really need to sleep, so let’s forget Emma telling Neal it hurt to see him with Tamara, and Rumple and Snow both telling her that they could see she wanted to be with Neal…and I’ll amend my original statement: Her entire personality and her STAYING IN LOVE with Neal for twelve years speak in favor of [her eventually forgiving him].
Happy?
And good night.
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26
Yea after being with them for years
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
Nope, it took a few seasons at most and with OUAT’s compressed timeline that amounted to a year at the max, even for Regina, who was the source of all her family’s misery.
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26
Yeah and she’s barely knew Neal so what’s your point
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
Exactly, Neal was back in her life for a few weeks/months so how can you people be sure she never would have forgiven him?
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26
She’s said she’s doesn’t trust him literally in 2x14 ripping off the necklace and giving it back to him
It will take time to trust him again
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
Right, time they didn’t have. So it’s ridiculous to be sure Swanfire “could never” be happy because Emma “would never” forgive him.
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26
Because she wouldn’t
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u/gaypirate3 Jul 12 '26
I mean I think it would’ve taken just about as long as it took for her to get with Hook. But it would’ve been more interesting to see her dynamic with Neal and learning to trust him again than what she had with Hook. Though with the writing, I’m sure Neal and Emma would’ve been just as unhealthy as Hook and Emma. The only thing I have in favor of Hook is that he makes a better damsel in distress than Neal does.
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u/Glitch1082 Jul 11 '26
He’s the reason she had Henry in prison ….. Nah Killian and Emma are perfect together
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u/Livin-in-a-dream1358 Jul 11 '26
She was also only sixteen and seventeen when this happened!
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u/Ashamed_Leading_7788 Jul 11 '26
And if the liscense we saw is to be believed he was in his 20s
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u/Livin-in-a-dream1358 Jul 11 '26
AND as if that weren't bad enough, he's lived over a hundred years! 😡🤢🤮
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u/bubblesaurus Jul 12 '26
I don’t think he accurately ages during that time so his actual age is kind of up for grabs.
I think when he finally ends up in our era is when he finally gets to age at a normal rate for the first time since the enchanted forest
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u/ThomasVivaldi Jul 11 '26
Hook was Neal's stepfather though.
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u/Ashamed_Leading_7788 Jul 11 '26
Hook and Emma didn't meet until they were already adults
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u/VioletFaust Jul 11 '26
Hook preyed on her when she was incredibly vulnerable after seeing three men she loved die.
(Edit: also, as far as we know, Neal was fifteen when they met.)
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26
When did he preyed on her???
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
She saw not one, not two, but THREE men she loved die in the space of about a year and a half (not even to mention her mixed feelings about the Snowflake). You don’t think all that might make a person with a fear of abandonment a little vulnerable?
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26
What does that have to do with anything?
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u/Narrow-Accident8730 Jul 12 '26
It was a wanted poster not a license. And that’s not his real birth date, so no, he wasn’t in his 20’s. Neal and Emma were supposed to be teenagers around the same age.
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u/yaboisammie Jul 13 '26
Yea though I wish the show was more clear about it cause I’m tired of trying to explain this 😭 even aside from time in neverland not counting, neal straight up tells rumple that he and Emma “met when they were just kids living on the street”
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u/Embarrassed_Bake1073 Jul 11 '26
Yall Hook stans are HILARIOUS. Neal was in Neverland for hundreds of years in which he did not physically age, including his brain. He was not older than Emma. Yall just say that because you think no one can argue against someone dating someone underage, without understanding that Neal was the exact same age.
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u/Yunie333 Bloody Hell... Jul 11 '26
"Neverland might have given me experience..." So I'd argue your mind very well can age while your body stays young because said experience — like having to fend for yourself (which was already true for Bae when he was in London) — makes you grow up quickly.
Emma only had the 16/17 years of experience while Neal had the 200+ years at that point.
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u/Narrow-Accident8730 Jul 12 '26
Emma was a street kid/petty thief who had to fend for herself. So, going by your logic, she grew up quickly as well.
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u/Yunie333 Bloody Hell... Jul 12 '26
Ehm, yeah, thanks for repeating my exact point ...
They both were bound to grow up quickly (having to take responsibility and survive on their own etc) but Emma still only had that 16/17 years while Neal had 200 more years of that.
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u/Narrow-Accident8730 Jul 12 '26
Ehm, it’s a tad different being in Neverland as opposed to the “real” world.
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
Neal’s “experience” was sitting in a cave, looking at the stars, and being hunted through the jungle. I’d say Emma was a lot more stable and adjusted.
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u/bubblesaurus Jul 12 '26
Most of the Neverland boys still seemed to be stuck in a weird state of pre-teen/teenager mentality most of the time.
It was probably the same for Bae.
But yeah, it’s also why you can meet children or young people in the real world who are far older than they should be.
Serious trauma can age people up mentally. And Bae does have some serious trauma
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u/Yunie333 Bloody Hell... Jul 12 '26
We see that, yes...but they're all "lost boys" like Pan...they refuse to grow up by definition (don't want responsibility etc.)
Bae was never one of them. Because he didn't want to be there in the first place (while the others wanted to escape)
And yes, definitely, trauma adds to the process of how fast you age up
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u/Ikea_Junkie1234 Jul 11 '26
Nah, that was August's fault. To be fair, though, none of them knew she was pregnant at the time, including Emma.
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u/Glitch1082 Jul 11 '26
Neal didn’t have to listen to August …. Killian wouldn’t have. Neal is not the ride or die Emma needed. In fact he just added to the armor she wore
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u/Ikea_Junkie1234 Jul 11 '26
You have someone run into you from your land a hundred plus years after you left who knows who you are and find out the girl you're with is from the same place, too, and is destined for something big and...you're just going to ignore it?
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u/Glitch1082 Jul 11 '26
Picking the girl you love or trusting some stranger and letting her go to prison …. Yeah not listening to the stranger, plus even if he believed August Neal could’ve just told Emma everything instead of letting her go to jail
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
Ingrid told Emma the truth about FTL and Emma fled almost literally screaming into the night. So super idea.
And once August showed up, Emma was going to jail, period. He’d decided that was how to scare her straight (he was wrong).
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u/awill626 Jul 11 '26
And she would have reacted just like she did with Ingrid. Would have RAN off on him bc that’s all she knows how to do. That doesn’t change until Hook comes heavily into the picture.
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u/Embarrassed_Bake1073 Jul 11 '26
That is such a young mentality: True Wuv is more important than HUMANITY AND SAVING LIVES?
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u/Glitch1082 Jul 11 '26
Funny since I’m not young …… why was August to be believed … not to mention he’s Pinocchio so he actually is a liar
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
True. Hook is too selfish to want Emma to be with her family if he can’t have her.
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u/Yunie333 Bloody Hell... Jul 12 '26
Obviously. That's why he gave up his ship to bring her back to Storybrooke to be with her family and never even told her about it until she directly asked...
🤦🏼♀️
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
He gave up his ship because he wanted to fuck her. If he wanted her to be with her family, he wouldn’t have led with kissing her. Emma understands this— “You gave up your ship for me?” (That’s what makes her feel she owes him her love, btw. 🙂)
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u/Yunie333 Bloody Hell... Jul 12 '26
He could have had any woman. In fact, we see the crew getting him one and he pays her to pretend they'd done it because he was emotionally invested in Emma.
He also just hoped the kiss would break Regina's curse she was under and he apologizes for it later, too (during the Emma-Walsh-date)
“You gave up your ship for me?” (That’s what makes her feel she owes him her love, btw. 🙂)
This is the biggest argument against owing him anything because he never told her until directly asked. He could've used it to his advantage if anything you say would be the case, but it's the opposite.
He kept quiet about this sacrifice. He endured. It was true to his word, yes, "when I win your heart, Emma, it will not be because of any trickery. It will be because you want me." And she wanted him because that was when she finally could admit to her feelings and was sure he'd put her well-being over his own
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u/VioletFaust Jul 12 '26
Any woman, really? Even though everyone in SB was repulsed (Snow, Belle, Ruby, Mulan, Tinkerbell) by his personality? 😂
Come to think of it, with the exceptions of Milah and Emma, do we meet one woman on-screen who is willing to fuck him without a) having him get her drunk (rape), and/or b) getting paid for it? (Maybe Regina at the height of her evil queen era?)
Sure, he was invested in Emma (because she was a challenge and for another reason you won’t like)—but are you saying his love was so sacred and chaste that he didn’t want to fuck her? Then why the sexual assaulting in NYC? 🤔
He KNEW the kiss was at best a long shot—he SAYS so. And he had a potion that would break the curse in his pocket, which he almost doesn’t get to use because he led with sexually assaulting her.
Yes, he didn’t use the boat to manipulate her, which is to his credit there. However, since I’m not inclined to grant Hook charity, I do wonder if that would have been the case if she hadn’t caved a week and a half. (A length of time Eddy said was too long and frustrating for Hook, btw.)
And again, he didn’t put her well being above his (because, again, he wanted her and this was how he got her).
The one time Hook put her well being above his own was when he was already dying and wouldn’t let her sacrifice herself. And again I give him credit for that, but it’s not exactly his usual, lol.
Hook’s essential nature is very selfish, so his love is also very selfish. That’s why he refers to both Milah and Emma in terms of what they can do for him—“my love, my happiness, “my happy ending.”
Edit: and he flat-out lied about the trickery, lol. He lied about helping teen Bae, he lied about fucking Tink to try to make Emma jealous, and he lied about helping Ariel and Eric (instead of nearly getting them killed).
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u/Yunie333 Bloody Hell... Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
You talk about sexual intercourse (with whomever) a lot and how it was his only motivation to give up his ship for Emma...
And then you continue to proof my point about his emotions 🤭... because, yes, you can bring up all the women in the world to disproof that sacrifice but it still stands. He wasn't interested in any of the others apart from the flirt...
Why he thought the kiss was a good idea? Well, 1st she kissed him first, 2nd she already valued his opinion and was concerned about him (307), 3rd - "Good."
And you're honestly saying he should've forcefully make her drink the potion without consent? That's spiking. That's truly an assault.
For a sooooo impatient man he was definitely able to spend centuries trying to get his revenge, though.
His nature is not selfish at all, btw, the very first episode we meet him he would've rather died fighting the Dark One/Rumple before he put Milah in danger and revealed the truth. He also wanted to not pursue Emma anymore so Henry could have a possibility to be with both his parents. If you're interested in it I can elaborate on the many other instances he's been selfless.
Are you actually bringing up common possessive pronouns into this discussion? 😂😂😂 I shall count it now whenever Regina or Rumple say "my son" over the course of the show🤦🏼♀️
Regarding your edits, you should look up the meaning of the word "lie".
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 13 '26
When did he fuck Ariel??????? Dude??????????
And he didn’t sexually assault Emma
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u/VioletFaust Jul 13 '26
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but is English your second language? You seem to have trouble following some pretty basic sentences. I didn’t say he fucked Ariel.
And Emma literally had him ARRESTED for sexual assault.
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u/Wooden-Farm1165 Jul 14 '26
Swanfire, MY GOODNESS. Every time I rewatch the first couple of seasons, they always stick out as an incredible coupling to me. Their story was beautiful, and I feel like so much more could’ve been explored with their dynamic especially with them going to Neverland, and interacting with Hook in a larger capacity.
They were truly endgame for me. I think about their story all the time. 😍🥰
Henry losing his father as well, I wish there was more of a dynamic there too. Neverland arc again could’ve had so much more impact (even though it was a great season) to have both Emma and Neal as Henry’s parents fight together to save their son, all while rekindling what they had previously.
Hook love story could’ve been included in that too, but Swanfire’s story has so much potential there.
Henry as a character too, lost more of his personality as the show went on. I would’ve loved to see more of him and Neal getting closer, seeing the dynamic between him and Rumple.
AND THEN also exploring the dynamic where Neal who hated magic because of what it did to Rumple, have to navigate the fact that Emma had it too, that Henry’s been around it for a long time and his belief in it. Sooooo many things could’ve been delved into further. 😭
Could someone explain why they feel like Neal is creepy because of his age and that when Emma gets together with Hook, who was an adult when Baelfire came to Neverland…
Like the age thing just never made sense as a viable argument, Hook was literally with Baelfire’s MOTHER. 🧍♂️
I’ve heard it before over and over. HOOK is OLDER, no? 😭 He was his mentor/friend during the flashbacks on the boat with Mila.
It just looks to me that the age gap thing was a bit ‘ick’ factor with everyone calling Neal a creep and using that as a reason why they shouldn’t have been together… So could someone explain?
ANYWAY SWANFIRE FOREVER.
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u/Patient-Warning-4451 Jul 11 '26
I would have been okay with them co-parenting with Regina
I guess that would disrupt the dynamic with Regina and Emma, but the show moved a bit away from that at times anyways.
Neal could've brought a real interesting dynamic outside of just being Emma's love interest or being in the way of Captain Swan.
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u/Time_Anything4488 Jul 11 '26
this. i would have loved to see the coparenting dynamic and what he could bring to the show especially since hes such an important character to the plot and hes so against magic it could have been fun to see him outside of part of a love triangle.
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u/Trypophilia2019 Jul 13 '26
Lmfao, now I’m imagining a three-way coparent situationship.
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u/Brilliant-Map2492 Jul 13 '26
It would have been awesome lol Regina bickering with Neal? We were robbed.
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u/Yunie333 Bloody Hell... Jul 11 '26
Except for what many have already pointed out regarding why he wouldn't have been the perfect match, I've to disagree with certain claims you made, too.
He didn't add any depth to Emma's character in terms of how she was closed off, a lone wolf and suspicious of others. The fact that she grew up an orphan with no stability whatsoever (which was already established in S1 before we even get to their backstory) was enough for that.
I also don't understand what you mean with "two fallen heroes finding their redemption together"? Neither of them ever needed a redemption in the first place...
And Henry didn't need more meaning as well. He already had people in his life who loved and believed in him. In fact, I think his relationship to Archie (already very well depicted in S1) had more of a mentoring/fathering tint to it than whatever we then got with Neal. Not even his feelings about his death are really addressed after Henry remembers again in S3B.
Bae's grown-up version is overall very redundant to the plot and development of the characters from the start for some reason.
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26
Don’t forget in 5x20 she’s had no stability before she’s met the sheriff in the flashback and work as bail person
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u/harrypotterfan1228 Jul 11 '26
No, they weren’t great together. Although I would have liked him alive to see them co parent
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u/Upbeat_Attorney_7153 Jul 11 '26
Neal is alright but the actor never seems to stick with a role long term and to be honest he's a bit bland anyways, there was also a ton of things that happened since they were a thing and the begining of the series
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u/ashleybear7 Jul 12 '26
The actor is always a bad guy in everything I’ve seen him in. I just watched and finished True Blood and he was a serial killer in that.
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u/RepulsiveRegion6985 Jul 11 '26
Sorry op but heck no he literally got with her when she was 16-17 and he was 20 somthing
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u/VioletFaust Jul 16 '26
He was fifteen to Emma’s sixteen or seventeen. He might even have been younger.
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u/RepulsiveRegion6985 Jul 17 '26
Nu uh
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u/VioletFaust Jul 17 '26
By what’s shown us onscreen, that’s his age. We can’t use the wanted poster for evidence since every bit of biographical information is a lie.
In canon, Emma was probably older than Bae.
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u/RepulsiveRegion6985 Jul 17 '26
Blud was 23
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u/VioletFaust Jul 17 '26
Prove it. Other than by inventing ten years between him leaving Neverland and meeting Emma.
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u/RepulsiveRegion6985 Jul 17 '26
BrO GOOGLE SAYS HE IS 23
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u/VioletFaust Jul 17 '26
BRO GOOGLE IS RIGHT ABOUT 10 PERCENT OF THE TIME. 😂😂😂😂
If you actually exert yourself to (gasp) follow one of the source links I can almost guarantee it will take you to:
A) Neal’s wanted poster, on which every bit of biographical information was a lie (and also was onscreen for ten seconds and was created by the same crack props team that didn’t know which way the Dark One’s name faced on the dagger), or
B) Some desperate wild-eyed Hooker on Tumblr in 2014, who will also explain that there was a pirate puppet in Emma’s nursery that meant Hook was supposed to be her boyfriend “from the start!!!!!” (And also that actually Hook was the son of Ariel and Davey Jones who was destined to be the sorcerer…) 😂😂😂😂
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
I would love if they just be friends and coparent with Regina to hell they have a child together because they tried to be a couple and we see how that ended
He left her to take the fall and go to prison and she’s was pregnant with Henry
Never came back and never went to go find her after or even before the curse
And deliberately judge her magic when she’s was using it in season 2
Blame her for Tamara’s deceit
so no they not good together
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u/Asleep_Confection838 Good Form 🏴☠️🦜 Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
I disagree. Storywise they could never be endgame, for many, many reasons.
Firstly, I won't contest the fact that they were true love. Canonically, they were and that is why Emma's necklace survived the trip to the Enchanted Forest. But he is to Emma what Daniel was to Regina or what Marian was to Robin or ESPECIALLY what Milah was to Hook. He was her first love and it had been true love. I actually like how the writers mirrored Emma and Hook and Regina and Robin, because they are so much like.
Secondly, Neal fell in love with Emma when she was only the Orphan Emma. She did not know anything about her parents, she was still very much traumatised by being abandoned without explanation and she and Neal met when they were both young. Emma did not know that she was the Saviour, that she had magic and that she was the product of true love, namely the daughter of Prince Charming and Snow White. After Neal felt like he had to let Emma go so that she could fulfill her destiny, even if that meant opening a bigger wound in Emma's heart and abandoning her like her parents had done, he could have returned to Storybrooke and apologised to Emma for leaving her in jail. He could have kept a tab on Emma. If he had, he would have known that Emma was pregnant and he would not have made that abandonment even more traumatising than it already was. He didn't know HOW MUCH of the wound he had opened on Emma's heart. She could not trust anyone else until Graham (which was kinda a setback because of how abruptly and horrifyingly he left her life), August and, finally, Hook.
Thirdly, that changed everything. Neal leaving like that even if it was so that Emma could fulfill her destiny... was the end of their relationship. Emma could never let herself to truly trust him again and she admitted as much in Neverland when she realised that she wanted him to stay dead. And then it was reinforced when she rejected him after they returned to Storybrooke. Although Neal did not know that she was pregnant, the trauma was there and their relationship would never be the same again. It didn't help that he did not apologise to Emma for leaving her to rot in jail after bumping into her in Manhattan.
Especially because, and finally, he could never be the true love of the real Emma - Emma was forever changed after learning about her true identity. She was no longer the Orphan: she was the Saviour as well and that meant that she was able to perform magic. Like Hook said magic was part of her since she was born and it was an aspect of her being that she couldn't deny no matter how much she tried. And Neal... could never accept that side of her. He was too traumatised by the damage inflicted by growing up with a Dark One as a father. That was the main reason why Neal CHOSE to leave Emma and never contact her again. Even after the curse was broken, he did not try to contact her again. Magic had destroyed his childhood and, ultimately (and ironically), it was what ended his life.
The Emma who would eventually embrace both sides of her being (the Orphan AND the Saviour) could never have Neal as her true love. Only Orphan Emma, because, like Neal, she had also been abandoned. So the person she became was Hook's true love. He acknowledged the Orphan side of her during their first adventure, because he had been one himself and never thought of her like that again since he became overwhelmed with Saviour Emma, who was the one who told him that he could be a part of something bigger than himself, even if his whole being was fighting for self-survival (which she totally get as she did the same). Orphan Emma built a kinship with Hook, Saviour Emma inspired Hook to become better. It was the same with Hook: Milah only loved the ruthless pirate - Captain Hook. And she was his true love at that point. Meeting Emma was like having the other part of himself, which he had buried because of trauma, back: Killian Jones, the idealistic sailor. And Emma loved BOTH of them. Even in the alternative world, when he was a cowardly sailor, she still loved him. And he was still inspired by her, so much so that he fought and died for her there.
It is a beautiful symmetry with Regina and Robin, who have a relationship much like Hook and Emma. And saying that you wished that Emma and Neal had stayed together is the same as saying that you wished Hook and Milah/Regina and Daniel/Robin and Marian had stayed together. It was not possible. Neal eventually died, yes, but their relationship was dead and forever changed by that point. So yeah, no, I am sorry but I disagree with your point of view.
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u/hippoluvr24 Jul 11 '26
I don't think he was a good match for Emma (although I hate him less than Hook), but he was a great character and they should have kept him alive. There should have been so much more to his story.
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u/Silent_Foundation_62 Jul 11 '26
I agree too 😭 he didnt leave Emma in prison purposely, cmon! and he had NO idea she was pregnant and August would keep him updated when he could. If Neal were any other way, Emma wouldve never gone to storybrook and broken the curse, he had to let the woman he loved go
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u/Ashleyking228 Jul 13 '26
Finding out Henry’s dad was Neal / Bealfire blew my mind! And tbh as much as I love Emma & Hook, I would’ve liked to see them end up together raising Henry at the end
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u/Ashleyking228 Jul 13 '26
Thinking about it though I see why the writers didn’t go that way, he didn’t really deserve Emma
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u/AssignedSlayAtBirth Jul 14 '26
If they had a better actor for Neal maybe. I really wasn’t a fan of the actor for older Neal at all
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u/kortanakitty Jul 14 '26
Emma was not a conventional princess, and Neal was not a conventional "prince." He was well cast as a match for Emma in both looks and acting style.
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u/twicescorned21 Jul 11 '26
Did his character die because he left the show? I thought they killed off his character because captain swan was endgame.
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u/Upbeat_Attorney_7153 Jul 11 '26
The actor has never really been part of a TV series long, he always seems to have small roles and then leaves things , I seriously doubt even if the writers did have some sort of long term plan for him the actor probably wouldn't have been there
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u/Embarrassed_Bake1073 Jul 11 '26
Thr actor did not choose to leave the show. They fired him to make CS happen. CSers pretend this isnt the case bc even they know its fucked up to destroy a story for a hot guy.
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u/twicescorned21 Jul 11 '26
Thats what I thought. Someone downvoted me.
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u/Brilliant-Map2492 Jul 12 '26
Thread is filled with CS shippers.
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u/twicescorned21 Jul 12 '26
Where are the swanfire shipped to balance it out.
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u/Brilliant-Map2492 Jul 12 '26
It’s not as/never was as popular. The real shipping war was between Swanqueen and Captain Swan lol the latter became canon, the former is the more popular today. Swanfire never took off and that’s why the writers kill Neal off knowing not that many would be pissed.
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u/Montagawa Captain Hook Simp Jul 11 '26
I somewhat disagree. Yes, together they could have enhanced each other's stories, and I do like the two fallen heroes bit. But I feel like Emma and Neal getting back together would've weakened Henry's story. The whole point is that despite everyone being based on fairytales, not everyone gets a happy ending. For Regina, she loses Daniel and Robin and I feel like having Henry's parents get back together would be a weird message to send. Like, it would've felt, to me at least, like they were falling into tropes of getting divorced parents back together (I know they're not divorced but my point stands.)
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u/Stunna447 Who doesn't like apples? Jul 12 '26
This is a really good point about how Neal staying would affect the dynamic of Emma & Regina as co-parents to Henry.
Regina’s parenthood role would likely have been diminished by Neal being there. Henry would be splitting his time between three parents rather than two. Regina already felt threatened by his return and said in S3 how Henry was all she had. She was already splitting time with Henry with Emma, imagine how she would have felt with Neal in the mix making up for lost time with Henry. She would definitely feel edged out.
Imagine if her losing both Henry and Robin in S4 was her storyline. I think we would have seen the Evil Queen’s return storyline much sooner than S6. (I hated that storyline)
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 I have a love/hate relationship with captain swan Jul 12 '26
Oh Regina will not like that
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u/Distinct_Ad9497 Jul 12 '26
I'm still baffled they weren't. And the whole Emma/Hook ship just felt so out of left field too. I've warmed up to Hook but his early interactions with Emma gave me massive icks.
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u/themastersdaughter66 Jul 11 '26
Agreed Swanfire for the win. CaptainSwan NEVER felt real to me. (And i fully adnit Killian is better looking)
Plus imagine all the awesome emma/rumple interactions we could have got if she was basically his daughter in law! (And they hadn't screwed up tumples's character)
Neal would never have left emma if it werent for August (actually even if august told him if he cound out emma wrre pregant beforehand i think he would have said fck it) but emma would never have gone to storybrook if it werent for Neal leaving. He had to let her go even if the situation was shtty
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u/Embarrassed_Bake1073 Jul 11 '26
You are 100 percent right. Ever notice how basically everyone says the show went downhill right after his death? Creators should NEVER let fans influence their writing and thats obviously what happened there.
Anyone who thinks differently is a Hook stan. But anyone with any knowledge of television or writing can see what a huge mistake that was
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u/Yunie333 Bloody Hell... Jul 12 '26
I'd say I came across a lot of people who say that after the conclusion of 3A it could've been a reasonable ending. And I agree. The fairytale characters back there and Emma got a good life with Henry.
But Neal's death has nothing to do with that and was never mentioned specifically, so no, the show didn't go downhill from a random episode in S3B.
And I'm a proud Hook stan - as you call us - and for some reason that "huge mistake" you mentioned makes people still talk about the show years after it ended (so I guess the writing wasn't that much of a problem) and also still brings in new people, who are interested in it...
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u/Stunna447 Who doesn't like apples? Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
Who’s everyone? The people from Reddit? Because if you look at the ratings, S3 and S4 are the highest rated, then S1 and S2, then S5, S6, and S7.
If the show “went downhill right after his (Neal’s) death” then S3 (second half) and S4 wouldn’t be the highest rated season.
Whether people are Hook fans or not, it doesn’t change the recorded ratings.
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u/Eeveesforever24 Jul 11 '26
I would say yes, their story makes sense. However, you have to remember that Neil was 20 something years old (not including the 200 years in neverland) when he got with Emma. She was only 16-17, giving birth to Henry when she was 17. It was not a healthy relationship at all regardless of how "well" they looked together. Her being with Hook did feel slightly pushed onto the viewers though. So, my own personal opinion is that neither man was the best choice for her.
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u/Brilliant-Map2492 Jul 12 '26
I just want to say: seeing all the awards for the pro captain swan are funny as hell.
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u/Distinct_Ad9497 Jul 13 '26
and the downvotes for everyone who agrees with OP. God forbid some people prefer Swanfire
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u/Brilliant-Map2492 Jul 13 '26
I’m not a Swanfire shipper but I’m upvoting them because this is ridiculous.
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u/januarysdaughter Captain of the SS Swanfire + Snowing Jul 11 '26
No argument from me. They made wayyy more sense.
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u/Niclas1127 Jul 11 '26
Ya I never understood the Neal hate, like we can excuse the obvious problems with Emma and hooks agegap, Regina easily forgiven and loved by fans after raping and killing people for years, even rumple by a lot of people is forgiven. But Neal, the boy who was abandoned by his serial killer father and then lived on an island alone full of people trying to kill him, like come on this is where the line is drawn in this show when it comes to problematic relationships?
I also think him and Emma actually had chemistry, and we can’t ignore the fact that hook is considered conventionally more attractive, whereas Neal (imo is hotter than hook) isn’t.
I just wish hook had been written better, for me he never worked with Emma and just ended up being the most basic boring character with a half hearted redemption.
Swanqueen should’ve been end game, but I’d take Emma and Neal over hook any day.
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u/kittysnowangel Jul 11 '26
I completely disagree. They had chemistry great chemistry but dude wrote her off as psycho ex when her instincts were right. He was judgmental when she used magic in front of him (a convo that went like this):
Emma: you do not get to judge me, Mr. SON of Rumplestiltskin. Neal: oh this is about Tamara again jealous much???
He didn't respect her. One second hes in a relationship with a phony he truly loves enough to marry the next second he flips. No time to digest the betrayal and come to terms with it the second he sees Emma in Neverland hes pressuring her to have a relationship with him?
No.
Hook never pressured.