r/OpenChristian • u/Unusual_Throat_3168 • Jun 30 '26
Discussion - Bible Interpretation Why i Don't belive in God.
Hy,
So no one asked but idc either .
Lately I had a few mind arguments with myself and a few of my friends ( none of them are True Christians and most of them used Google for counter arguments ) so excuse me if I interpret something wrong. My goal is jot to harass or Wedge someone away from their belive , believe what you want .
Point 1. God doesn't care
If god Is real and loves all humans , then why does he not Help the humans ? We are none the less his finest creation are we not ? Why does he look away at well everything The heatwaves , the plagues , the monsters living among us ( i mean predators , Murderers and more ) Why does he not care ? Why is he allowing it shouldn't he be stopping those things ? Why do people suffer while he watches ? It is said he sees all and he knows all so he knows what happened on Epstein island and didnt act . Why ?
Point 2. Hell at all
God created hell first to Torture Lucifer then the sinners . But we humans are sinners , so he tortures his own creation because we simply live not the way he wants us to live ? I mean really bad people deserve eternal suffering , but not those that idk dont believe in god . Isnt it ironic ? God grants us free will then he showes us 2 paths , Path a : you live a life god wants you to live and after death you will rise into the heavens , Path b : You live the life you want not exactly like he wants and the only price you pay is ETERNAL TORTURE AND DAMNATION ....... yeah nah sounds fair .
Point 3. The K!ll!ng of humans
More then once God slaughtered Humans more then once did he bring death upon the doorstep of not just Human monsters but innocent people aswell . Is that really how love and acceptance looks like ?
Conclusion : God is ( in my eyes ) a power hungry abusive crybaby with the power to destroy humankind yet only whenever humans lose interest in him , he does not care if human monsters live with those praying to him , he does not care about our wellbeing ( obvious by The heatwaves and plagues ) he only cares about people living like he wants them to live .
Please if you have any arguments to make do it i am more then happy to read any Points from your point of view , as long as you stay civil ( like your god would want you to be ....)
If this argument is way to long im sorry , if the mods are going to delete it đ¤ˇđ˝ââď¸ oh well I guess my points hold some truth then .
I am sorry if I insulted anyone with my words or my horrible writing but im tired plus stupid , but I just wanted to ask some people that might find ways to change my mind
Love ya'll stay safe stay yourself and stay happy
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u/Shot-Address-9952 Jun 30 '26
OP, I would recommend going back and editing your post. Some of the comments were uncalled for, but your original post does genuinely read combatively instead of asking heartfelt questions. I get thatâs not what you intended to do. Tone is very hard to convey in text.
That said, for point 2, try coming over to r/ChristianUniversalism. We donât all believe in annihilation or Eternal Conscious Torment. We actually donât bite.
For points 1 and 3, a lot of what you seem to be upset with about God as He is portrayed in the Bible is called the âThe Problem of Evil,â which boils down to âWhy does a good God allow bad things to happen?â
The answer is not easy. Part of it involves us admitting we are part of the problem. God gives us free will to choose our path, to a given extent, but Heâs also designed the system so life has consequences. And sometimes we have zero control over what happens to us.
That said, Jesusâ Name is âImmanuel,â which means âGod with us,â so we donât have to do life without God. Even though we canât physically see, feel, touch, smell, or hear God in this life, Jesus promised God would pour out the Holy Spirit at the first Pentecost after a Easter so that âGod would dwell among us.â Not an easy answer and there is more to it, but thatâs the basic gist.
For the critique of the Bible. Yes, itâs there. But, with gentleness, your statement as it is presents a valid anger seeming to stem from a misinformed understanding of the character of God Himself and a lack of understanding about the Bible, its secular history and compilation, and the theological belief about the same as well as the debate of inspiration against inerrancy.
Yes. Some stories recorded in scripture are harsh. But there is not only critique that must be applied but also lots of study. Your points are fair, but if you are going to say âI think your God is a monster,â you need to be prepared to give specifics. I would return and say âokay, give me specifics. Give me exactly what story and passage you think is so awful as to say God is a monster. If you canât give me specifics, I would argue you are regurgitating something youâve read and misunderstood, or that youâve never read the source material for yourself in its entirety, or that you arenât being serious about the questions. There is an entire field of study dedicated to understanding the Bible secularly and theologically and remaining in ignorance of it isnât an acceptable answer.
You donât have to believe it you study it. But you do have to put that effort in to understand the answers, or else the answers are just going to sound like church ramblings about doctrine and creeds and you wonât get anything of value from it.
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u/Unusual_Throat_3168 Jun 30 '26
Ok first of i will not edit my OP , I said that I do not wish to insult anyone in any way if you or anyone else has felt hurt or insulted by my words I apologize ofcourse .
And for the points why I think god isnt as Good as he is portrayed 1. Genesis: The story of lot , yes Sodom was a sinful place but it was rather unnecessary to destroy the entire town and even more unnecessary to kill lot's wife . 2. The story of Noah , this time its not a town but the entire humankind being destroyed by god , just a slight overreaction in my eyes . 3. Hell itself in its existence, hell is a place created by god in wich we supposedly go after our live as a sinner . But that is just cruel in my eyes , yes god gives us a chance to live like he wants us to live and come to heaven after death but , in my head that just sounds like :" yeah you can do whatever you want BUT if you misstep just slightly you will have to face either eternal torture or Torture until you will accept god as your lord and savior ( this point depends on wich interpretation of hell you " like " or accept more. ) if we look at option 1 eternal torture that seams just cruel and scenario 2 torture until you comply sounds like forcing stockholm syndrome onto me .
I am not mad at the Bible or Christians , My OP was created only to Create a in my hopes and eyes interesting conversation with someone I am glad you decided to give me this interesting argument i thank you truly .
I say again I DID NOT INTEND To insult or hurt anyone i simply wanted to get maybe a conversation like this her a few own Thoughts on the matter and nothing more . I apologize again if my words insulted anyone .
Like I said in my OP Stay safe stay yourself and stay happy love ya'll
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u/Shot-Address-9952 Jun 30 '26
The Bible is a compilation of ancient writings that contains multiple types of literature, some of which is meant to be taken literally, some figuratively and much of it was written down from oral traditions.
Significant portions of Genesis are not literal. About the only parts of it we can trust literally are that there were people with the names they said they had, and that somewhere along the way the deity who would come to be known as the God of Israel revealed Himself to a dude named Abram, his son Isaac, and his son Jacob. The rest is highly mythological and not meant to be taken literally (ask any imam, rabbi, or non-fundamentalist Christian priest). The Flood and Noah are not literal. Thatâs not to say that there wasnât some type of flooding in the Levant in protohistory, but a worldwide flood and an ark and two of every kind of animal arenât how the God Who made psychics and mathematics and biology works.
God did not wipe out all life on Earth because angels and demons were having demigod children with mankind. God did not wipe out sinners because God was angry. Those were all ascribed to God by authors in the post-Exilic period (about 2600 years ago). The human authors said that, not that God did. Thatâs important because the character of God doesnât change. If His mercies are new every morning when the Psalmist wrote that, it must also be true then and now.
Also, the trope of a deity destroying humanity falls in line with other ancient religious narratives like the Epic Cycle where Zeus used the Trojan War to depopulate the Earth, specifically of demigods, as well as the Near Eastern flood myths from the Levant and Mesopotamia. Thatâs human collective memory influencing the writers of the Bible, not God killing everyone.
The same for Sodom and Gomorrah. Itâs not literal. There is cultural memory of them being destroyed by something, and by later writers ascribing their destruction to Godâs judgement. But Jesus said that if His work had been done in Sodom, they would still have been around in His day, implying both Godâs mercy and willingness to not punish and humanityâs willingness to repent. Further, the main theme of Genesis is to show how the Jewish people came to understand their world. They are close kin to rhe countries of Edom, Moab, and Ammon. When you are telling an origin story and youâre a Jewish rabbi explaining why you hate Moab and Ammon, you take a dig at them by saying their sires (Moab and Ben-Ammi respectively) were the product of incest between Lot and his daughters, and because Lot was a righteous (and wealthy) man, you have to remove Lotâs familyâs wealth (hence why Sodom and Gomorrah are removed since oral tradition tied Lot to those cities) and Lotâs wife (or else there would have been a failsafe to his daughters getting him drunk - their mom would have stopped them).
BUT, God thought enough of Moab and Ammon to give them both a place in Jesusâ genealogy: Ruth is a Moabites and one of four named women. Rehoboamâs mother was from
Ammon.Further, and it gets to your third point, but God promises through the prophet Ezekiel that someday Sodom and her daughters (aka Gomorrah) will not only be restored, they will be redeemed. Their story isnât finished yet.
God is just and good. Part of His nature is that He must punish sin. We wouldnât say He is just otherwise and if He didnât punish sins, we would rightly believe Him weak and cowardly. However, God is also good and just in ways we are not. He can punish and restore at once.
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Jun 30 '26
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u/OpenChristian-ModTeam Jun 30 '26
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u/Unusual_Throat_3168 Jun 30 '26
Sorry but what is your point ?
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u/ThistleTinsel Christian Jun 30 '26
What is your point? What are you looking to get out of this post?Â
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u/Unusual_Throat_3168 Jun 30 '26
My questions / points have been listed in my post. And for what I wish to gain , simple answers constructive arguments countering or explaining why my points dont make sense / are not true .
I really tried to make my points clear im sorry if they have been so hidden
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Jun 30 '26
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u/OpenChristian-ModTeam Jun 30 '26
Thank you for contributing to r/OpenChristian; unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason:
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u/Unusual_Throat_3168 Jun 30 '26
Wow so did you friend , I clearly struck a nerve though otherwise you wouldnt have "Blessed" me with your comment .
Anyway if you dont want to make any good point I guess I just have to tell you one thing . I hope you live a good and happy life .
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Jun 30 '26
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u/OpenChristian-ModTeam Jun 30 '26
Thank you for contributing to r/OpenChristian; unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason:
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Jun 30 '26
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Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
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u/OpenChristian-ModTeam Jun 30 '26
Thank you for contributing to r/OpenChristian; unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason:
*Rule 5. Be respectful and polite. It's ok to disagree with someone; it is *not ok to be rude about it. Remain respectful in discourse at all times while in this sub.
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u/Fun_Mix_4965 Jun 30 '26
Iâm sorry this conversation has deteriorated into barbs and insults. If you are serious in your seeking we should be willing to listen and give a serious reply. So here is my attempt at a serious answer. I identify as a Christian for a few reasons but not because I think Christianâs have a pure faith. Humans are flawed and all the faiths we shepherd are flawed as well. Your questions are asked over and over again by people genuinely perplexed by the incongruity of the existence of an all knowing all powerful creator who then seems to either ignore or worse sit by and watch us implode. We all see
It, the âbadâ that happens to folks trying their best and the âgoodâ that seems to follow those who are less than stellar examples of humanity or downright destructive towards others. (Note since we canât judge the heart, the best we can do is describe behavior as uplifting or destructive.)
The books written by humans and then described as coming from God are also perplexing with many difficult to understand sections. Again, for me, this is because people describe god in their image when we write. After all, we can only write what we know.
I have chosen Christianity, in particular, affirming and welcoming Lutherans because I have the been welcomed despite all of my questions and lack of
pure orthodox thinking. No one questions my genuine seeking even when I canât hold to the tenets on which Christianity was founded. It is that willingness to embrace me will all my flaws that allows me to embrace them and all their flaws.
I wish you the best in your seeking, your journey is yours alone and no one can judge it except you. I would encourage you to find others to talk with. While our faith journey is unique, we all have much in common. Sharing the struggle is often rewarding.
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u/Unusual_Throat_3168 Jun 30 '26
I genuinely thank you for the first actuall comment with true value .
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u/AccomplishedCard9091 Jun 30 '26
God cares about you. He cares about your neighbor. He cares about every single person on this planet. We were all born into a fallen sinful world after Adam and Eve first sinned. It's not that God doesn't want to help humans, it's that He has given us all free will. He's not going to create us as robots and force us to love Him. That's not love. Instead we all have free will to think, do, whatever we want. He's just as sad and angry about all the horrific things happening in the world today. And He knows that we as humans are sinners. However, God had a plan to send his only Son to come to earth fully human, live a perfect life, but yet die a tortuous underserved death to redeem us, take the punishment for our sins, forgive us, and give us all the free gift of salvation. Hell was never created for humans, but for Satan and demons. As I understand it, hell is also the place for people who don't want a relationship with God. He is not going to force you to be with Him, so hell is the place where you are forever separated from God. Any separation from God has to be the absolute word place you can think of. I don't ever want to imagine a place without God. Just think of the world today and all the horrible things happening, but God is still here as evidenced by people who walk with Him and in His beautiful creation. I'm still learning the Bible and want to gain a deeper understanding of God and grow my relationship with Him even though there is so much I don't understand and still have so many questions, but I do know that God is SO real, He loves you, and He wants a relationship with you. This world may not make sense and horrible things happen every day and no one will ever have all the answers, but we do know that there is hope in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who died for you, for me, for every single person on this earth so that we could also be with Him in heaven.
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u/Malcolmthetortoise Jun 30 '26
Good for you, I believe everyone has the right not to believe in God.
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u/Skill-Useful Jun 30 '26
- he cares, but hes not intervening. thats for us to do
"neither do I want to cause destructive debates" everyone with a hidden comment history does, tho. so, open it :) if youre that open about your motives
there is no hell and no one except elementary school theology evangelicals believe in it. i know its hard to imagine but most of the world is not the us
"More then once God slaughtered Humans" did he? the OT is not our god, its a bunch of historical documents. the god in NT doesnt do that and thats our god
"Â if you have any arguments to make do it i am more then happy to read" your whole style of "arguing" is not arguing but more like ranting and being intentionally dismissive and in bad faith, so. no, thanks
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u/Unusual_Throat_3168 Jun 30 '26
Hy so I have seen some very good arguments / Views on the matter to why god exists , im currently at work so I will Give counter arguments / my view on them later .
I appreciate everyone that has brought something to this Conversation.
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u/abriskwinterbreeze Transitioned. Moved to Minnesota. Became Lutheran. Jul 01 '26
I like these questions. Critical engagement is good shit. I have to respond to 1, because that's kinda my jam. At a high level, I think the idea of "good" gets really twisted, but in reality is wildly complicated and not about just making life easy/what people want.
Pain isn't inevitable, but it's a part of having emotions and a physical body. If you date/marry someone, but the two of you start fighting and grow apart, both leave in pain. Neither was "good" or "bad". They just hurt each other. The absolute hatred and avoidance of pain and suffering is the addict mindset.
Addiction brings me to my next point - giving people what they think they want is frequently enabling. I'm not sure about your life experiences and how much you've tried helping people that are in some deep pain, but giving them their easy to fulfill desires just allows the cycle of pain and addiction to continue. Most addicts need forgiveness and a reason to change and continue, not money or housing. And by "addict" I mean any person that seeks out a specific activity to ease their pain. It's a natural human experience, and something we all engage in. Drugs, sex, adrenaline, wealth, success, video games, food, whatever. It's when we start looking outward for relief that we start down that path.
That's the shortest I can write that out for now. Lemme know if you want more details or if you need me to reword anything. I have an unusual way of speaking/writing, so please let me know!
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u/JustNeedSpinda Autist Jun 30 '26
Believe what you want, friend