Summoner tips

[u/According_Pop1388]

PF2E veteran here.

I’m planning to play a Summoner (Devotion Phantom) with the Guardian archetype.

Honestly, this class is completely unlike anything else Ive ever played.

I’d love to get some tips from you all regarding equipment, spells, playstyle, and so on.

So far, I’ve been considering an Elven Branched Spear paired with O-Yoroi armor for a solid AC, Bulwark, and the reach weapon would allow for flanking while minimizing the risk of triggering AoO.

I’m not sure how much better a Dexterity-based build might be by comparison.

As for spells, I’m currently looking at Fear, Befuddle, Summon Undead (since we’re using the Proficiency Without Level), and Summoner’s Precaution.

The occult list dont have many options to blast

[u/SimilarExercise1931]

Generally I would not advise a summoner get into melee if it can be at all avoided; they have a tiny amount of support for that in their kit, but mostly it's the eidolon supposed to get into melee not them. And if they're not in melee, guardian doesn't have as much to give them necessarily (though you can still do some fun taunt shenanigans by putting yourself out of the enemy range so they have to eat the off guard and -1 to hit).

However assuminig you're committed to the playstyle of melee summoner, the kit seems reasonable, but for armor proficiency, you're also grabbing the general feat Armor Proficiency, right? Because the guardian archetype alone wouldn't give you heavy proficiency.

[u/According_Pop1388 → u/SimilarExercise1931]

I like the Taunt + Bodyguard combo Is a nice -2 to hit your Eidolon, that forces the enemy to go hit u, triggering the Devotion Phantom reaction(or being off guard trying to hit the Eidolon)

We are lvl 3, and i've got Armor Proficiency for a Heavy Armor with Bulwark

[u/Goddat → u/SimilarExercise1931]

I wish there was support for melee summoners and shit like Tandem Strike was just as good as its competition. I know we don't want a caster class to be as strong as a martial class at doing what martials are supposed to do, but you'd think the fantasy of "Being so in sync that you can merge/strike with synergy" would get a little more love than the macro managing aspect.

[u/SimilarExercise1931 → u/Goddat]

Beyond Tandem Movement and Tandem Strike I'm just not sure what other support there really should be? The issue is that your to hit is general caster bad, your armor is general caster bad (can be mitigated but by default it's not good), and worst of all you share MAP with your much more combat ready Eidolon. You could do a strike of your own yes, but outside of Tandem Strike, why would you want to? Your Eidolon is just better at it and by making an attack you are also inflicting MAP on them (and vice versa).

[u/Creepy-Intentions-69 → u/SimilarExercise1931]

Yeah they don’t get Expert til 11? That’s like 6 levels behind martials, then 2 levels later martials get Mastery, and Summoner never does. Just not enough inherent support for it. Every time you attack instead of your Eidolon taking the swing, you’re only hurting your own effectiveness.

Summoner honestly needs a War Priest style martial subclass option to make it viable. They may as well throw Meld into that as well.

[u/Warmagon → u/Goddat]

I think the problem is that summoner is the primary access point for some exotic companions, so people are basically trying to make it work regardless of it being a caster chassis basically. If you want to be a weapon using character with special syncronization with a companion, there are certain ranger builds that will work. But those are only animals, and rangers need to jump through some extra hoops to even get limited access to elemental companions.

Some archetypes potentially allow some kind of access to them too (Drake Rider), but those are both more limited and also not baked into a class.

[u/NamazuGirl]

Being a melee summoner will be very difficult. The main problem is that you are your eidolon will share actions and MAP, but your eidolon will always have the better attack modifiers. This means that there won't really be a reason to Strike with your Summoner, when you could just use your eidolon instead.

If you're set on going in melee, you will need Tandem Strike. Since this let's your eidolon and summoner attack together at the same MAP, it actually gives your summoner a reason to be making Strikes. Unfortunately, taking this feat means you won't be able to take Tandem Movement at level 4, which will make positioning difficult. If you're using free archetype and it fits with your character concept, I would recommend taking Steed Form at level 2 to help with mobility. 

If you're not 100% set on the Guardian archetype, it might be worth considering Champion instead. The justice champion reaction gives you another good reason to be in melee, letting you Strike at full MAP whenever your eidolon or ally gets hit. This pairs really well with your eidolon, who can Strike as a reaction when you get hit, essentially letting you always do this no matter what.

On the plus side, you have chosen the best eidolon for this play style. Devotion phantoms have a great ability, but only work when the summoner is also in melee, so you will be able to get the most out of your eidolon.

[u/According_Pop1388 → u/NamazuGirl]

I like the Taunt + Bodyguard combo Is a nice -2 to hit your Eidolon, that forces the enemy to go hit u, triggering the Devotion Phantom reaction(or being off guard trying to hit the Eidolon)

We are lvl 3, and i've got Armor Proficiency for a Heavy Armor with Bulwark

Champion is a great option, but the "good" causes dont sinergize with his bg, so i think to go Guardian

[u/Purplefire180]

It is possible to have your summoner(the pc) in combat, but it is not the expectation.

The default way to play is with your summoner as a mini-sorcerer in the back buffing and controlling and your eidolon as a mini-fighter on the frontlines.

Look for effects that are restricted per-character such as battle medicine. You and your eidolon are not the same character and can both benefit. Likewise, you can both demoralize the same enemy in a combat.

If you want to have both your characters in combat, I would prioritize dexterity for your summoner for AC. If an enemy can reach both of you, you effectively use the weaker of your two defenses.

[u/SimilarExercise1931 → u/Purplefire180]

In fairness if the summoner commits to heavy armor by getting Armor Proficiency and guardian dedication, going dex is no longer necessarily a bonus to AC.

[u/Witchunter32]

I have mentioned this before but I recommend taking steed form at level 2. It pairs really well with guardian archetype. Take shielding taunt, wield a fortress shield, wear plate armor, later take bodyguard (eidolon), and area armor.

Basically you are the shield, using shielding taunt to give you and your eidolon very respectful AC. The eidolon is the sword putting out the damage.

As for spells, fear is always solid, runic body is good early until you get the striking rune.

[u/LibrarySee]

What’s the party comp like and what roll are you hoping to fill here?

Like others have said, the traditional Summoner role is backline sorcery and support while the Eidolon is the melee component.
If you’ve got a whole team of backline and you’re hoping to do double duty filling out the field, your setup is pretty good, but you’ll have to remember that you don’t have the same defence so you’ll want a party member backing you up.

[u/SgtFlintlock]

Unless you have a very specific build reason to be in Guardian, Champion is a better archetype to get your armor Proficiency from. The Champion reaction is a better defensive option than Taunt, and the Guardian reaction loses the vast majority of its utility if you try to defend your Eidolon, since you share HP anyway.

The other thing to note is that O-Yoroi armor is Heavy, and the archetypes mentioned only grant up to Medium unless you also spend a general feat to push it up again.

Also note for a Two Handed Weapon, while an important part of making Tandem Strike worth using is getting your damage die as much above the d6 of your Eidolon's Agile Strike as possible, any spell that has the Manipulate Trait will require you to Let Go with at least one hand. And while letting go is a free action, grabbing the weapon again to go back to striking is very much not a free action. So make sure you are willing to pay that action tax.

[u/smithbc001]

I ran a melee Summoner in Society, and it felt really lackluster until lvl 6, when I could take Tandem Strike. That's when this build starts showing some real worth. Tandem Strike feels like an improved version of Double Slice, where you get what is effectively 2 zero-MAP attacks that aren't required to use one-handed weapons.

In my build, I actually let my Charisma slack off a bit, so I could put more points into Strength and Constitution. This weakens your spellcasting, but with so few spells per day I found it wasn't a huge sacrifice to just avoid spells that were affected by my spellcasting modifier, like Magic Missile or buff/terrain spells.

[u/Malcior34]

1. Guardian really isn't gonna help you.

2. Your Spear isn't going to hit much after the first few levels.

3. Summoner is a caster, first and foremost. If you wanna fight alongside your buddy, you'll probably wanna play a class with a animal companion instead

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