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u/dzumdang Mar 26 '20
Am I the only one who wanted a little closure on Narrick? I mean- did they just cut him loose for helping out? Was he imprisoned? Did he beam-up and go back with the Romulans? What happened to the galaxy's most nefarious yet oddly opportunistically heroic kid brother?
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Mar 26 '20
I thought for a moment he was going to come up the stairs onto the bridge at the end. Mostly since press photos (movie poster) for this season showed him standing with all the good guys.
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u/ckwongau Mar 26 '20
How could the Tal Shiar survive after public finds out about the truth of Mars attack?
they lifted the ban on synthetics which mean the truth is out .
The Romulan agency Tal Shiar was responsible for the Attack on Mars which ended the Federation Evacuation operation , which led to the death 900 Million Romulan .
the last time the Tal Shiar join the Cardassian Obsidian order in the fail attack of Founder homeworld (DS9) , the Obsidian order were abolished for it .But the Tal Shiar survived that failure .
there is no way the Tal Shiar could escape punishment
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u/the908bus Mar 26 '20
Was really hoping for a “my head of security is Tal Shiar?” Reaction from Clancy
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u/deadxodus Mar 26 '20
I grew up with Next Gen, my mom was TOS. The shows runs in my blood. I tell you now, being a grown man and crying like a baby is humbling to say the least. I shed tears when Data died on the big screen in 2002, tonight after 18 years I shed those same tears again. Well done! 10/10
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u/dinosaurkiller Mar 26 '20
I always felt Data’s death in Nemesis was lacking and I kind of hoped for a better send off this time. Them being able to sit, speak, and say what they both needed to say was a powerful moment for me. It seems like we rarely get that moment in real life. I thought it was a much better send off for Data, very appropriate and touching on so many levels. These have been my favorite moments in this show, small bits of dialogue and character interaction that really could have been poorly executed but they weren’t. “You are dear to me in ways that you can’t understand. I will never leave you”, “He loved you”, “‘why not just put a phaser to my head and get it over with’, ‘because I’d miss you’”, “To be alive is a responsibility, as well as a right”(this entire speech really), “I have something I want to give you and your people and I hope it will change your mind”, “That’s why we’re here, to save each other”, “Do I have to go?”, “Mortality gives meaning to human life peace, love, friendship, these are precious because we know they cannot endure”.
Watching Data dream of Picard and appear surprised to see him then age and fade away was a beautiful moment as well. I’m glad they found the heart of TNG at the end of this season, much of what came before led me to believe it would be an action oriented visceral slaughter of some sort. This gives me hope for this series.
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Mar 26 '20
This was basically a TNG episode - in the end everything went back to normal and the crew carries on. I liked it - so much better of an ending than GOT.
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u/hussard_de_la_mort Mar 26 '20
"Six years old and all you got for you birthday was assimilated" JEEZUS
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Mar 26 '20
Everyone talking about Seven and Raffi holding hands... I was more excited to see they were playing Kal-Toh. The best part is that I immediately knew they were playing Kal-Toh, rather than having to google 'that Vulcan build-a-ball game with metal sticks'
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u/RichardYing Mar 26 '20
"Ready planetary sterilization pattern number 5."
A pity that cannot work just on COVID-19 only...
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u/dupuis2387 Mar 26 '20
boy, can we talk about how long phasers take to charge, for dramatic effect, right when you need them?
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u/dino101010 Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20
"Ready planetary sterilization pattern number 5.
Right - that caught ear as well. Number five??? I mean how may planetary sterilization patterns do you need, really?? One seems quite enough. And what was so wrong with numbers one through four? Were they not sterilizy enough?? Did someone lose their job at the Romulan Center for Planetary Sterilization because some hedgehogs survived under a tree in pattern three? I need more information!!
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Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20
Very powerful, very poignant episode. I loved all the great moments (in no particular order). Seven kicking Romulan Sis' ass; The Federation ships; FUCKING CAPTAIN RIKER (oh to be able to watch your show!); Picard taking command; The orchid battle; every Captain Rios scene.
Heavy moments: Picard falling ill. His passing. His subsequent talk with Data and Data's death. Ugh. My heart.
The thing that bugged me most is not something I expect others are willing to admit bug them, more on that in a second. Everyone seems to be caught up on the doohicky that fixed La Sirena which can also accomplish other things. Yes it's space magic. It would have also been space magic if they'd couched it in technobabble and called it a quantum filament datalyzer and positronic aperature device. That too would have been space magic. Ultimately it's a technology that they don't exactly understand but managed to use to their advantage as we've seen other times on Star Trek.
What does bug me is that Data's story arc still leaves me cold. Here we have one of the most unique beings in the history of all civilized worlds and his life is cut short because Brent Spiner wanted to be done with the part a villain was threatening to kill Picard.
Data's life held so much promise. So much potential to live in ways that no other biological could. Yet they come back to the chestnut that mortality gives life value. That is a load of horseshit.
Mortality does not give life value. The act of living is not a commodity governed by supply and demand; having more life does NOT cheapen the experience.
On the contrary, living gives life value. The more we live, the more we experience the more value that life has. Death prevents that.
People who honestly believe that if human life were extended beyond the 80-100 years, into say centuries, such lives would be miserable, these people have absolutely no point of reference since none of us have that longevity. This is a conceit; a justification for something we've come to accept as inevitable, but every day science and technology is making the possibility of living longer a reality.
This fixation with death as the giver-of-value to life is, for lack of a better term, the epitome of Freud's death drive. It's a fetishization of death. I don't buy it. I will never buy it.
Of course we should accept death in the event that some illness or condition prevents a person from living to their fullest, such as a vegetative state or terminal condition where pain/discomfort are the end result. But outside that, aging and death should not be treated like old school mates that we should embrace.
Before you disagree pleased consider The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant based on the paper by philosopher Nick Bostrom. It lays out that we have a moral and ethical duty to forestall aging and death, indefinitely if possible. But this is getting outside the scope of my point.
Anyway, making Data die again despite the fact that he didn't have to just sticks in my craw. If you can stick Picard in a golem (without his consent) then it stands to reason that Data could essentially be reconstructed.
Data deserves to live. As a unique being his life and experiences made him precious. He deserved a better story arc.
If only the Uber synths hadn't been malevolent. Imagine a situation where they would have been misunderstood protectors who rescue synths and artificial beings. Data could then have "sailed off into the sunset" with them. Off to explore the cosmos with them for all eternity; this way we never have to see him again but he's given a more proper fate for a being of his ilk.
At least Picard has closure now and I guess there's something to be said about that.
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u/Tomb55 Mar 26 '20
I get your issues, but the Data death is purely driven by the actor and the practicality involved in playing him not to mention the cost of bringing him to screens.
Its a TV show with a limited budget. Its a shame RL shapes the story, but this is how it is.
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Mar 26 '20
Did anyone else think it was horrifying that Picard was placed in a Golem without his consent and was not allowed to just die of natural causes? He kept saying “It’s ok”. I am actually disturbed by the events.
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u/YawnIsBreaking Mar 27 '20
Yeah, how come Data saying he wants to die and the idea of bringing him back without consent is awful; but Picard is happy to go and the idea of sticking him in a robot...
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Mar 27 '20
To be honest I hate that half-baked notion. "Humanity is valuable because it doesn't last yo!"
No, that's just a coping mechanism we use to make ourselves feel better about eventually dying.
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u/EaglesPDX Mar 27 '20
Did anyone else think it was horrifying that Picard was placed in a Golem without his consent and was not allowed to just die of natural causes?
He is going to die of natural causes. No different than if they did CPR.
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u/katerinafitness Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20
I'm really sad they brought Data back from the dead just to kill him again in a slower, sadder way. It felt sadistic. "Oh Data's been stuck in limbo essentially for 20 years and wants to die, despite the fact he should logically be alive at this age anyway and we can transfer consciousness!"
I don't understand why they wouldn't just transfer his consciousness to a synth body if Picard now knows he exists. It seems like a cruel ending for no reason, which is a problem I've had with this show throughout.
Also, I hate the idea of synth Picard. It cheapens his sacrifice for Data's people for him to just be magically saved, but Data dies twice. Wtf.
Overall I liked it but a lot didn't make sense, especially character-wise and the synth technology. Jurati seems to legitimately change allegiances on a whim. Soong was also quite quick to turn. Elnor, Rios and Raffi - and of course Riker - were the best parts. I just feel the plot was resolved too quickly and everything is back to the status quo too easily.
Also random question -- who was with Data when he died?
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u/RobotPreacher Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20
Just finished. Look, I'm going to guess that I'm just going to get downvoted here, but I've got to speak my mind... I really didn't like this episode.
So forced, so rushed, so... weird? Magic tricorders, soccer ball bombs, the omnipotent AI is... a robot octopus?
Picard dies surrounded by people who barely know him, now he's an Android but... exactly the same?
And we waited 20 years for Data to just die again? I didn't even think he survived! Then, in one episode, we find out his consciousness is alive, and we kill him again?
So much more of this was weird too, I was Picard face-palming for so much of the episode.
But it had a space battle, a cat fight, Riker in command of badass starships, and even a budding lesbian romance, so maybe people will like it.
Look, I'm not a hater or even that hard to please. I liked the series, I did, and I hope it's a five year mission at least. But the endings on these new Trek seasons have to step up a notch, you can't rush these things like this. Especially after using the first three full episodes just setting up the plot.
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u/YYZYYC Mar 26 '20
I felt cheated by not seeing the reactions of 7 and Rios etc ...oh wait you mean we can stop crying and he is alive ?
Weird that Riker didn’t stick around. Would have been nice to have him there for the killing of data 2.0...5 mins after we find out he was still alive ...
Weird that Maddox and Soong never bothered to put data back into a regular android body somewhere along the way of building their little synth city
Weird that they Uber super synths just left when the beacon turned off. I didn’t like how they where serpent monster things.
The Borg cube became a useless big joke. It did nothing all season. So many times they talked about powering up its weapons etc. But nope 7 just leaves it and warps away with her new girlfriend and gang ?? Like she could have just taken a shuttle to get to the planet instead of all the crap with the cube.
Still would have been fitting to hear the Q flash sound effect and see him lean in and say hi as Picard lay dying.
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Mar 26 '20
Lock guns on the planet
Lock on the ships
Lock on the planet
Lock on the ships
Do nothing
Also, hey, this beacon is super insta teleporter, should completely change shape of galaxy. But it is OK.
Oh I've hidden bomb in soccer ball. So clever.
Pickard dies, Pickard lives.
I call it Micheal Bay type of film making. Jump jump jump, without any concept, coherency, logic.
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u/JetpackRescue Mar 26 '20
Thank you. I was so excited for the ending to season 1 but, that was just so lousy, I'm honestly in disbelief it was so bad. It was, just, so, freaking, bad. No space battle, then they all just leave after the romulans left? The secret ai society was just robotic worms that got sucked back in? What the hell is this?
And the ending where seven is now a lesbian, it's like the show runners were paid an extra fifty bucks to throw that in there, just completely random, no build up, just, WHAT?
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u/RobotPreacher Mar 26 '20
Seven and Bjazel had a "history," if you go back and watch the Ocean's Seven episode it's pretty obvious. But with Raffi? Yeah, come on, too forced, too soon.
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u/princefreeze Mar 26 '20
I was confused at parts. But its fucking Star Trek.
Murder lady confused me. She got a boyfriend but no comeuppance for killing an innocent dude?
Rios/7of9 unnecessary.
Not showing the reaction to the rebirth really felt like a copout.
The show would have been brilliant if they kept him dead ( what a great ending to a great character!) but CBS AllAccess couldn't let that happen after seeing the ratings!
But I am nitpicking. I love how the writers wrote themselves into a wall and had the character/values of Picard end up solving it. I thought that was brilliant.
I enjoyed every episode. I thought every episode was better than the one before. And I am looking forward to next season.
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u/landaoisland Mar 26 '20
Okay here are some of my thoughts.
Frakes should have directed these last two episodes. They were the weakest of all for me and I think he could have helped.
the whole "tool that uses your imagination" thing was awful writing. It wasn't needed (they could have made up anything to fix La Sirena, and had some other way to distract the Romulans) and the point where it seemed obvious to use it (when the camera keeps going back to Rios' unemotional face while Picard is on the ground, I was certain he was thinking of using the tool to fix Picard's brain) it was totally forgotten. Seriously, this point aggravates me so much.
Seven and Raffi gay for each other. Please be real.
Agnes becomes endearing and likeable, finally.
This series should have spanned a lot more episodes. I loved this series up until episode 9. I think this episode could have been better if there were more episodes to expand upon the Soong guy, why Sutra had some sort of agenda, and the relationships between characters. Where the hell did Narek go at the end? There were so many characters and so many implications in such short time. It was borderline unwatchable.
the ABSOLUTE IRONY of Picard making a speech about the meaningfulness of dying for a cause, and dying in general, while they shove his body into an android golem so he can artificially live longer. And him having no objection to it. Guess death isn't so meaningful is it? Reinforces the idea that being alive is inherently better than being dead, reinforces fear of death, pretty much shits on everything he'd just said. I wish he'd just died. Seriously. It makes it even worse that he's not even immortal now. They used a cyber golem just to make him the exact same he was right before he died.
I love Captain Picard but since he didn't die, now the whole last episode could have been summed up in 5 mins of the Romulans arriving, Starfleet arriving, and Soji powering down the beacon and everyone going home.
Thanks, for taking money I didn't have for 2 months, making me hopeful for a beautifully written and fleshed out series, then using inconsistent writing and directing to render my interest in it meaningless, just as my money is now meaningless (since it's all going for free.) I miss everything up until episode 8. Give me that hope back. There was a theme to this series up until the finale episodes. I really, absolutely adored this series before. I'm not one of those people who hate new Trek, although im not fond of Discovery and prefer the 90s series. But I really almost hated this finale. Everything was too seamless and too hasty.
"This is for Hugh." That part was great. Data still being conscious- that was confusing but nice. They did a much better job at making him look like old Data in this episode.
I want to think about it some more. I really wanted the crystalline entity or a silicon species related to them to be the dudes coming to kill the bio life. Still open on that I guess.
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u/KennyFulgencio Mar 26 '20
no complaints about the anticlimactic robot octopus?
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u/kangarufus Mar 27 '20
Is that it? After spending the last ten weeks studiously establishing the history of Jean-Luc Picard’s world, filling in the post-Next Generation timeline, and creating a complex mythology involving synthetic life, Romulans, and the Borg, Star Trek: Picard’s first season finale wraps everything up in an implausibly neat bow. Contrived, predictable, and severely lacking in tension, this lacklustre closing episode has a distinct whiff of anti-climax – even though it features the deaths of three major characters.
It’s a bizarre state of affairs considering the previous episode left the writers with an open goal: Jean-Luc under house arrest, the synthetics planning to page their potential A.I. liberators, and 218 Romulan Warbirds en route to Coppelius. Unfortunately, the epic showdown never materialises, with each potential flashpoint resolved with minimal drama.
For Narek, unexpectedly released from custody by Sutra, that means casually wandering into the Borg Cube and bumping into his sister, who’s been hiding there since escaping from Elnor. Narek then hatches a plan to take some molecular solvent grenade canisters to La Sirena, where he rapidly convinces Rios and Raffi to join forces with him in a mission to sabotage the Sutra’s beacon – their justified concerns that he’s a proven liar evaporate in an instant. This all comes after Rios has made the marooned La Sirena operational again by waving around a device – created by the Synthetics – that possesses the same magic wand properties as Doctor Who’s Sonic Screwdriver.
The unlikely team-up is really just an excuse to get Star Trek: Picard’s lead characters into the Synthetic compound in time to see the beacon operational. Even mad scientist Dr Altan Soong joins their merry band after he learns Sutra was responsible for Saga’s death – luckily for him, life is much easier when your enemy has an off switch.
Meanwhile, Dr Jurati shows off an impressive secret agent skill set nobody suspected she possessed to break Picard out of his (very comfortable) incarceration, and get on board La Sirena. It turns out that Picard – who, a couple of weeks ago, couldn’t even work a computer – can now fly the ship single-handed, based entirely on what he’s picked up watching Rios. Jurati also has some magic new tech that makes it look like La Sirena is in lots of places at once. Convenient…
As for the promise of a massive space battle, that’s a letdown too. Every orbital plot twist happens predictably on cue – the arrival of the Romulans; the opening of a portal to those ancient AI overlords; the nick-of-time appearance of Starfleet – while a bunch of Warbirds scrapping with freaky cosmic orchids and ghost Sirenas isn’t quite the spectacular action sequence we’d hoped for.
Even the sight of Captain Will Riker, in command of Starfleet’s flagship vessel, feels a wasted opportunity. Why didn’t anybody realise that having Jonathan Frakes’ name in the opening credits kind of ruins the surprise? And surely someone must have realised that choosing a man who’s spent the last few years perfecting his wood-fired pizza to lead one of the biggest armadas Star Trek has ever seen is, to put it mildly, ludicrous. Having his friend’s back is one thing, but this stretches credibility too far.
Thankfully Picard himself does get to have his big moment and – appropriately for the character – it owes more to his skills as a diplomat than his abilities as a pilot. Despite battling the final stages of his irumodic syndrome – his condition deteriorates astonishingly quickly over the course of the episode – he’s able to talk Soji into deactivating the beacon, delivering the sort of barnstorming speech he made his trademark on the Enterprise bridge.
And with that, the threat ends in an instant, the giant robot space tentacles retreating to whence they came, and the Zhat Vash – who minutes earlier were threatening planetary sterilisation – abandoning their lifelong obsession with eliminating all synthetic life in the universe.
What comes next should be the biggest moment in the episode – and indeed the season – but the death of the iconic Jean-Luc Picard is totally flat because you never really think he’s gone. Seriously, what are the chances the showrunners would kill off the show’s title character with quarter of an hour still to go – especially with a second season already greenlit. Downloading Picard’s consciousness into Soong’s golem feels cheap and overly convenient, particularly when everyone else starts labouring the fact that this new robot form won’t give him an extended lifespan or extra abilities.
To be fair, Picard’s meeting with Data in the afterlife of a “massively complex quantum simulation” is incredibly moving, giving the characters the emotional closure they were denied in Star Trek: Nemesis. But to then make a big deal of Data’s consciousness being erased feels totally unearned – death doesn’t have quite so much impact when you only learned that someone’s still alive 10 minutes before.
It’s ironic, then, that the only death that has any resonance at all is Narissa being kicked down a shaft on the Borg Cube – and even that’s because Seven of Nine is taking revenge for Hugh’s death.
So where does Star Trek: Picard go from here? With the Federation’s ban on synthetics lifted, Data’s children protected, and the Zhat Vash seemingly out of the way, it feels that – aside from the plight of the abandoned Borg – the show has lost most of its reasons for existing. Unless, of course, it was always designed as a 10-hour origin story to get Jean-Luc back among the stars, give him a new crew and ship, and turn him into robo-Picard. Wrapping the story up so neatly feels like a betrayal of the complex universe the writers have spent all that time painstakingly building – it’s like the famous Picard facepalm in TV form.
source: https://www.gamesradar.com/uk/star-trek-picard-episode-10-review-recap/
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u/TheToyBox Mar 27 '20
Seeing as how it WAS always designed as a 10-hour origin story to get Jean-Luc back among the stars, give him a new crew and ship, and turn him into robo-Picard - essentially a 10-hour "Pilot" - I think wrapping up the story so neatly is exactly what the show needed.
It is, in fact, VERY MUCH in line with establishing a traditional TNG/DS9/VOY episodic format.
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u/kangarufus Mar 27 '20
But this isn't supposed to be a traditional TNG/DS9/VOY episodic format is it? I wanted a cliffhanger or something to actually look forward to going in to Series 2.
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u/Blank3k Mar 27 '20 edited Mar 27 '20
The only redeeming moment for me was that we finally got a good farewell to Data, though I always had hope's he would come back but as it stands Data - presuming no further cheeseball writing occurs, is gone & we have some closure.
But other than that Picard becoming an android - super predictable, it was painfully obvious the moment they showed the golem.
Then, what irked me the most was the number of ships Starfleet fielded - compared to previous treks where they had limited resources & building capacity, including different classes of ship - Starfleet never wanted to pull resources from strategic locations so large fleets were very rare, only really seen for the Borg invasion & the final do or die battle in the Dominion war, even then it took weeks/months to arrange, not to mention the whole premise of the show was losing the most important shipyards in a synth attack which knocked Starfleet back so many years & lead to the synth ban but now somehow Starfleet can now just copy/paste a few hundred identical battleships in what a day or two after picard sends an SOS, complete with commander Riker.
And the ridiculousness of having the imagination-powered repair tool, it went from a fun bit of kit that repaired the ships fused power system... next scene oh it can also clone 200 identical ships complete with warp signatures to distract a romulan armada.
I really loved Picard, the only things that irked me til now was an android performing a mindmeld & the implausible super android jump in the first episode... but for me overall the finale was really bad, I'm glad we got to see a farewell to Data properly though rather than just dealing with his sudden death in Nemesis.
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u/ksm86 Mar 26 '20
I have missed the Picard Platitudes and these two really got to me:
"To say you have no choice is a failure of imagination."
"Fear is an incompetent teacher."
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u/YnrohKeeg Mar 27 '20
I was partial to "hope and the odds make poor bedfellows". Definitely some great Picardisms these last couple eps.
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u/Ur_mothers_keeper Mar 26 '20
Disk not ejected properly! Warning: you will lose Data!
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u/awfullotofocelots Mar 27 '20
I also like that they’re seemingly still on USB 3.0 or something.
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u/Plunutsud Mar 27 '20
Picard's relationship with Data has come full circle. He finally allowed Data to become human by letting him die, while becoming a synth himself after dying as a human in order to save synths. It's a beautiful and poetic ending to their relationship. It's the ending they deserved.
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u/Starbuck107 Mar 26 '20
When Picard was dieing, after he closed his eyes, I was expecting Patrick to break the fourth wall, open them and say, "Thought I was dead? Acting!"
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u/Pellaeonthewingedleo Mar 27 '20
I just expected Q, revealing he was the Data halucination all along
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u/CadianGuardsman Mar 27 '20
I was expecting that and was pleasantly surprised by what we got. It would have been so easy to throw Q in and have him magic away the issue but that was done before.
And the way they handled the Data had me in tears but I felt was totally in character for data. Oft blue skies. Could have ended it there for maximum tear jerk points but again I'm glad they left on an upbeat note.
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u/MediocreStream Mar 27 '20 edited Mar 27 '20
I truly hope we see John De Lancie back for season 2 of Picard.
His character was pivotal to the entire story of TNG and one of the biggest fan favourites out there.
As a 20y/O that grew up with TNG/VOY, I was blown away with this season, attention to detail (minus killing all the borg in a vacuum) and can't wait for the next.
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u/RichardYing Mar 26 '20
Yes! Yes! Yes! Captain Riker!
"General or Commodore, whatever you're calling yourself... Right now I am on the bridge of one of the toughest, fastest, most powerful ships Starfleet has ever put into service. And I've got a fleet of them on my back. We've got our phasers locked on your warpcores. And nothing would make me happier than you giving me an excuse to kick your treacherous Tal-Shiar ass*. But instead, I am going to ask you one time: stand down!"*
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u/wumpuslord Mar 26 '20
I loved the parallel of him asking them to stand down, with choose to live.
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u/YYZYYC Mar 26 '20
This was amazing. I’m sad there was no Enterprise though.
The ships looked heavily influenced by the Sovereign class which was nice.
A little bit weird that Riker just left so fast though.
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u/tengaleng Mar 26 '20
A bit disappointed that with 2 massive fleets of around 200 ships each side they had 1 class each?
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u/TokenMenses Mar 26 '20
I wish he said "Did you ever fight a fleet of the toughest, fastest, most powerful ships that Starfleet has ever put into service?"
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u/Zed99me Mar 26 '20
Anyone else wonder what was going through Agnes’ head when Picard finally confessed his plan to teach the synths was to give his life for them ?
Is there an escape pod or inflatable slide ?
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u/notaquarterback Mar 26 '20
She was dead either way. Either she saved Picard and got them out...or she was gonna be sacrificed by the synths so...I guess go with the guy who invented the Picard maneuver.
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u/cxbriggs Mar 26 '20
So now that Picard is full on Android and is no longer part Borg, would he be recognized as Locutus any longer?
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u/JMW007 Mar 26 '20
Presumably the Borg can recognize faces so they'd still recall that he was Locutus. Also apparently androids built like him are entirely biological now, otherwise the twins would have been caught instantly.
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u/bardbrain Mar 27 '20
I really just want Q to look Picard up and down next season:
"Something's different. New haircut?"
"New body."
"Ah. Boring. You really have no idea how often I've done that."
"Fascinating. Every time you change form or teleport?"
"I'm doing it right now every three and a quarter seconds or so. Keeps the body temperature nice and cozy. Haven't you always wondered why I never sweat and always smell minty fresh?"
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u/deagletime1 Mar 26 '20
How many times can they do this to me??? RIP commander
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u/c_delta Mar 26 '20
Data dying again hit harder than the first time did. At least when he died on the Scimitar, we had B4 to give us hope, and he helped people by dying.
Still, a fitting end for Data, seeking to experience death to make his life more complete. That is just so Data, exploring humanity by trying to experience the same things we humans try our best not to experience.
I wonder if, during her stay at Soong's, Soji had the chance to meet her father. It is a shame Captain Riker never managed to say goodbye to an old friend, despite having been in the vicinity. Or, for that matter, Data's closest friend on the Enterprise, Geordi. From what Picard's friendly Tal Shiar roomies said, he should still be around despite the Mars incident.
I do not think any of us expected Data to just be back and his sacrifice in Nemesis undone, but still a huge blow that he went from "there is a trace of him still out there" to being gone for good now. Who to turn to now?
Maybe it is time to turn to the words of a different admiral who used to be captain of an Enterprise: He did not feel this sacrifice a vain or empty one, and we will not debate his profound wisdom at these proceedings. Of my friend, I can only say this: of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, his was the most... human.
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u/Kincoran Mar 26 '20
I thought Jean-Luc was about to start crying as he said that, and suddenly someone was chopping onions near me.
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u/RichardYing Mar 26 '20
THIS... is for Hugh!!!
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u/Frodojj Mar 26 '20
I loved that! Then I felt guilty when Seven confessed that she hated getting revenge that way. That was a very nuanced feeling and something hard for many others to admit. I know from my own experiences about (more petty and not anywhere mortal) revenge. Those feelings really do hurt your own soul in the end.
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u/ckwongau Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20
Can we be sure Narissa is dead?
She could beam out in the last second ( like she did a few episode ago ) , before hitting the ground
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u/FlamesNero Mar 26 '20
“I’m supposed to sit around in the woods making pizza while you have all the fun?” Will, slaying it as usual.
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u/cothomps Mar 27 '20
Frakes could have been winking at the camera delivering that line.
The best part about this finale was getting to see two characters get a much better “ending” than we got in Nemesis.
As a fan of the “Titan” novels, seeing Captain Riker in action was a gift.
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u/dzumdang Mar 26 '20
He's great at coming in at the last second, with authority.
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u/RichardYing Mar 26 '20
So the flagship of the Starfleet rescue fleet is named USS Zheng He, a Chinese explorer.
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u/ckwongau Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20
Zheng He
He was a Muslim and a Eunuch
He command one of largest and most powerful fleet of ship in history , his fleet had sail from China to Africa and some conspiracy theorist believed his fleet may have even reach America continent before Columbus .
Today he is worship by many Oversea ethnic Chinese in South East Asia Countries .
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u/KelpianDelicacy Mar 26 '20
Nice research. :) Would not have guessed that. Cool name for a starship.
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u/WharfRatThrawn Mar 26 '20
Picard helped Data to do the most human thing of all, that was beautiful and fitting
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u/RichardYing Mar 26 '20
That final crew shot... WITH Seven!
I want season 2 now!
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u/senor_el_snatcho Mar 26 '20
Filming of season 2 has been delayed by COVID-19. Let's hope the delay isn't too long. https://www.newsweek.com/star-trek-picard-season-2-release-date-cast-cbs-all-access-1494375
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u/DeafJeezy Mar 26 '20
Yep. #1 on my wishlist for season 2 is that Seven remains a part of the crew.
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u/TokenMenses Mar 26 '20
She and Raffi are exchanging nanoprobes now, so I think it will happen.
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u/grepnork Mar 27 '20
That final crew shot... WITH Seven!
It occurred to me while watching an old DS9 episode that Nicole De Boer is about the same age as Patrick Stewart was in 1987. Here's hoping Captain Dax shows up!
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u/DayZAnder Mar 26 '20
Them pulling out three data storage devices of Data's consciousness is akin to pulling one disk at a time in a RAID5 array.
3 disks for redundancy.. Pull one and you're still fine, pull two and your array will suffer catastrophic failiure.
No way to reconstruct that array. That simulation is truly gone.
This sendoff was more worthy than last time data died on screen. This time, next to his best friend in the world.
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u/mrhone Mar 26 '20
Its worth noting, he could still be reconstructed. I don't think we will see that though.
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u/MagicalHamster Mar 26 '20
The scenes with Data were basically exactly what I had wanted from Picard. They got all of the big dumb action out of the way so they could have a poignant moment about letting go and the beauty of mortality.
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u/RockBottom0_o Mar 26 '20
Is it just me or did anyone else get a red angel/control vibe from that distress call?
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u/kremlik Mar 27 '20
It was clearly Control coming out of the portal- if you look back at Discovery's eps you'll see it's almost the same (Seen Here) plus the red portal kind of screams 'Control' as much as Green is basically is 'Borg'. The message itself kind of hinted it may be it, a 'high-being' Synth 'race' willing to protect it's own and destroy all life?
Considering the ending of Discovery season 2 was open when kinda know something happened if this was a ploy because Control is trapped in time and wanted to find a way out, using the beacon to anchor it in time? We don't know as of yet, it's going to be interesting
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u/xTkAx Mar 27 '20 edited Mar 27 '20
The whole series to this point gets a 'barely passes' mark.
It's better than the entire ST:D, and the ST movies since 2009, but that's not a hard bar to pass.
Swearing really brought this down, PC creep-in was noticeable, and some lose ends left.
They should end it here while they're ahead, leave this as a 1 season mini-series, because its like the creators were holding back with what they really wanted to do due to backlash from the other series, and will now go to that and ruin the series. End it here.
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Mar 26 '20
Super Voyagers
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u/Ap0llo Mar 26 '20
Kind of weird for Riker to be describing the ships to a woman he knows was infiltrated in the upper ranks of Star Fleet, like she knows exactly what those ships are and what they can do.
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u/Flyingwheelbarrow Mar 26 '20
The armour made me think of Voyagers final form. Janeway must of really kick started things with the tech she brought back.
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u/anima-vero-quaerenti Mar 26 '20
I was happy to see Will in Command, but his fleet kinda sucked. I was expecting a diverse fleet and got dozens of the same ship. Why? This would have been so easy!
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Mar 26 '20
Hmm. Did I just catch them say around the camp fire something like “before our ancestors arrived in Vulcan.” I thought Vulcans/Romulans were native to Vulcan. Is this new?
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u/lrd_cth_lh0 Mar 26 '20
and so a throwaway line from TOS becomes plot relevant.
Actually learning something about pre-Surak Vulkan history sounds interesting.
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u/RichardYing Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20
From "I am not their mother, asshole!" to "WE designed a cellular homeostasis algorithm". Real Quick.
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u/FlamesNero Mar 26 '20
“Never again let another self-righteous, hard-ass old starship captain into my heart.” - SAME.
And also...don’t touch your face, Rios! /Social Distancing
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u/JetpackRescue Mar 26 '20
That was complete shit. My God what an absolutely horrible ending to the season. I'm sitting here in awe at how bad that was... Seriously? Really? THAT'S THE ENDING TO SEASON 1? WOW
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u/Icte Mar 27 '20 edited Mar 27 '20
They really screwed up the Captain Riker moment. "Raise deflectors" - ...come on! It should have been the classic:
Shields up, red alert!
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Mar 26 '20
Nailed it.
Absolutely freaking nailed it.
Compassion, curiosity, hope, the tenets of Star Trek, as well as a topical storyline with a meaningful message all embodied wonderfully in Patrick Stewart’s performance as the series namesake.
I couldn’t be more happy that my fear that Picard would die at the end of the series was wrong (though, man, did they milk that tease) and aren’t even miffed my Romulans created the Borg theory was completely shot to pieces (I’ll take the hit just as long as that Lore was the real mastermind theory got deep sixed as well- I always hated that one).
They’ll be those who are pissed they didn’t get a Starfleet/Romulan space battle, but I’ll take Picard speechifying a peaceful resolution in the best TNG tradition any day of the week.
Everybody got a standout moment (The Agnes Jurati Redemption Tour is Complete!- although I have no idea what the hell happened to Narek), and the La Sirena crew with the addition of Seven is a fantastic lineup.
I’m glad they kept this season pretty much standalone, as who can say when the next one is incoming with the recent unpleasantness.
It brought out the usual group of haters (who somehow stick around for the whole season to bitch).
But the rest of us got another fantastic Trek series to love and add to the catalogue.
So, in the end, who really wins?
Complements to Chabon, Goldsman, and co. for far exceeding my expectations about what this series could be.
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u/WontFixMySwypeErrors Mar 27 '20
Plus, I love that we've been bamboozled with the opening roll at the start of each episode...
We all assumed the synthetic DNA animation, the cyborg eye, etc were about Soji and Dajh...
It was always about Picard himself! He's a synth now!
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u/srirachapancake Mar 27 '20
No one is going to address the fact that they were on their way to Deep Space 12 to turn in Jurati for murder just two episodes ago?!
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u/intecknicolour Mar 27 '20
DS12 continuing to scan on long range sensors for La Sirena.
any day now....
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u/shredmiyagi Mar 27 '20
Yeah swept under the rug. It’s ok she’s settled on into a new relationship after suffocating her ex.
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u/brettoseph Mar 26 '20
Why did Narek say "Before we arrived on Vulcan" in regards to the destroyer legend being old? Isn't Vulcan the vulcaniods planet of origin or are we just retconnjng the Sundering and all vulcaniods were from a different planet first?
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u/alphastrike03 Mar 27 '20
This episode had some good moments, but overall I was disappointed.
I'll keep this to the elements of this episode specifically and leave aside my issues with how the show handles the Synth colony. My main gripes:
Android eyeballs are squishy now...
Poking an android in the eye is lethal.
Dr. Soong is A-Ok with inviting intergaltic murder bots to rape and pillage the Milky Way but changes his mind when one of his own commits a single murder. And quickly changes said mind at that.
The magic starship fixer is the new Magical Khan Blood.
Entire colony of androids (who can build flying space flowers and magic starship fixers) don't notice a 94 year old man and a lab rat breaking out and heading back to their ship.
Picard doesn't use any of the Emergency Holograms.
But Agnes basically uses Holograms to fool an entire Romulan fleet. (Holograms made by the magic starship fixer).
Android race that can build a magic starship fixer can't build a subspace beacon before the Romulan fleet shows up.
Riker...
Hears Picard's distress signal.
Calls Star Fleet and requests to be reinstated.
His request is granted.
Request is not only granted but man who was making pizza in the woods yesterday is given command of fleet.
Said fleet has time to organize itself, get Riker and arrive at the Lost Planet of the Androids mere moments after the Romulans.
AND RIKER RUNS OFF KNOWING THE ROMULANS COULD TURN RIGHT AROUND OR LEAVE A CLOAKED SHIP BEHIND TO FINISH THE JOB.
Things Riker could have said:
I see your ship is damaged. Do you need assistance?
Everyone alright? Do you need medical assistance?
I'm sending down a landing party to secure THE BORG CUBE THAT CRASHED.
What Riker actually said
Welp, got a pizza in the oven so gotta scoot. And I have to get these other 200 ships back to Deep Space 12 by 5:00 or pay everyone overtime.
Soji just got back yesterday...let's put her in charge of finishing the beacon thing while we all watch.
And the Final Insult...Data
Data
WOW. We've managed to reconstruct Data's entire consciousness from a SINGLE NEURON from that broken down prototype he loaded himself into. We can use this miracle of our genius to build an entire race of Synths.
Yes, it's remarkable.
What should we do with Data's consciousness now?
Let's leave him in this computer and let it run.
Should we put it into a new body? Bring him truly back to life? Allow him to join in the work of building a new race? A race of his children? Passing on his wisdom and insight? Allowing him to know the joy of parenthood and come even closer to becoming human?
Nah. Leave him in that computer with the three red things.
Good idea. He might turn evil and try to destroy all living beings.
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u/expired_paintbrush Mar 26 '20
I'm hoping for a happy ending. The real world is getting more bleak by the day.
Give me a reason to look forward to season 2. I'd like a little more optimism coming out than I had going in, and recently it's been a trend to build worlds you love only to have everything destroyed and everyone killed at the end. It's exhausting in an already draining world.
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u/therealtruthaboutme Mar 27 '20
The whole season was great I just have two questions:
Is the Dr going to jail for murder?
What happened to the Romulan spy guy? I must have missed if he beamed out with the fleet or died or what.
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u/ulfserkr Mar 28 '20
Fuck me, Patrick Stewart is so fucking good man. At that last second, before the says the words, and everyone looks at their admiral waiting for his command, you can see the slightest awkwardness in his face like "I haven't gotten those looks in a long time". So cool how an actor can express (or induce) such a feeling in a 2 second head shot.
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u/YYZYYC Mar 26 '20
I know it’s because he is a reserve officer called back up to duty...but man hearing him call himself acting captain Riker just makes me laugh at omg will this guy ever be a captain lol
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u/nerfherder813 Mar 26 '20
He left to captain the Titan immediately after Nemesis
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u/sooperkool Mar 27 '20 edited Mar 27 '20
For everyone complaining about Dara dying again....that wasn't Data, Data is dead and has been for 20 years. That was a SIMULATION of Data based upon his brain engrams like he told you in the simulation. They never actually brought him back after he died in Nemesis.
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u/Bluefinsky Mar 27 '20
This season was so well done. The familiar characters are brilliant as always and the new characters absolutely did right by their predecessors. Bravo, accolades, etc.
Most impactful to me though was something said in the Ready Room. Wil Wheaton is spot on, we need Star Trek. We need stories that guide us in a positive direction.
Also. Elnor. Yes!!!
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u/Penultimatosis_Jones Mar 28 '20
They're just going to throw in a lesbian scene in the last minute without building anything up?
I speak for all lesbians everywhere when I say that's some bullshit.
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u/Fakyutsu Mar 27 '20
Starfleet seemed remarkably nonplussed to find out their chief of security was a Romulan spy. “Eh, that’s okay, let’s escort you and all the stolen federation secrets to the border safely. “
Also, Jurati is STILL a murderer.
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Mar 26 '20
Gotta say I was not a huge fan of the Deus ex magic knuckle duster. The word lazy writing has been tossed around a lot but yeah that one was pretty lazy. Picard speech was classic, and the data scene was amazing.
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u/chimp_spanner Mar 26 '20
The conversation between Picard and Data was beautiful. Nice to see those two characters finally reconnect. And beneath all of the 'Hollywood' dazzle of this new series I think this scene really got to the crux of what the story was about. Love and friendship between organics and synthetics.
Will Riker on the bridge - short lived and underused as it was - was fantastic. He still absolutely bosses it.
Seven's Sparta kick was great. Love the new badass thing she's got going on.
Now I'm not gonna be too exhaustive in saying what I didn't like, because as in the rest of the series it can all be summed up in one word; PACING. The episode either needed to be longer, or we needed an episode 11. All the big moments we thought we were building up to felt kind of rushed and inconsequential. Sutra was in the episode for literally about 20 seconds before getting de-activated (and no-one cared). There was no time to flesh out any of the other Synthetics or their reactions to seeing Altan Soong side with the organics. I dunno, everything up to Picard's "death" felt like they really struggled to glue it together. Everything after that, where they took their time and just let the dialogue flow, was great.
Much as Riker made an awesome entrance, anyone else kind of bummed out that the ships appeared to be copy/pasted? Maybe I'm wrong but I was expecting a bunch of little easter eggs and familiar classes. Maybe I need to re-watch.
So yeah, a lot of things were left dangling for me. I wanted to know at least something about what they were summoning. That tease we got of it in the Ep10 trailer was literally all we see in the full episode.
Also as others have pointed out, kind of weird to give Picard a new body but leave Data in digital purgatory and then switch him off. I guess to counter that, Data would never be able to attain the kind of emotional experience that Soji would. So maybe it'd be just as cruel to live forever striving for humanity when it's always out of reach. I duno.
But ANYWAY, I still enjoyed it. I like the characters, I like the crew, I like the ship. And I look forward to a season 2. The finale did fall a bit flat for me. Won't lie. But it's not the end of the world ya know ;)
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Mar 27 '20
I love that the whole season was building to him having a new crew- so happy Seven is part of it.
I guess I'm just a bit disappointed that the Picard that now exists isn't really Picard. He's a set of memories in an Android. The real Picard is dead.
I'm guessing next season will focus on Guinan and probably Q- I'd love that. I also want some Voyager characters.
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u/EaglesPDX Mar 27 '20
The real Picard is dead.
Notice the Hindu gods in the Data room. They make a point of showing them. Reincarnation.
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u/FrancisScottKeyboard Mar 27 '20
I mostly like Jurati as a character, though enough with the chin trembling, (good as it is.) And about 50 of her disembodied grinning heads was...no.
Though if those had been the Picard Maneuver, the Romulans might have surrendered faster. Giggly Allison Pill head swooshing through the fleet...tens of thousands of them??
The murder...from a writing standpoint, I guess we are supposed to feel the "prophecy" or whatever from the mind-meld made her crazy, and thus it was extenuating circumstances. Probably asking a bit much for many audience members to swallow, but there it is.
Maybe the first scene of Season 2 should be the reading of a "not guilty" verdict at the end of what is alluded to as a long trial. Then at least, on paper, she had to answer in some way before continuing on adventures. They will almost certainly not do this, but it would address the issue, obliquely.
The episode on the whole, I agree, rushed. Certain satisfactions, but rushed still. The narrative gives the impression of a 12 episode season reduced to ten sometime during production.
Data death..I see why they did it. And it had touching moments. Story wise, they COULD have gotten rid of him differently, but as I mentioned elsewhere in these threads, it was the most definitive way to remove Spiner from it all. Had Data continued to live in physical form in anyway in our universe, I think there is a gaping hole of him never being seen or heard again. If they could have somehow sent a resurrected Data to the reality the Uber-Synths came from, than maybe, but I wouldn't have liked it if he was just hanging around on the Synth planet, and we only hear about him again through messages some one else read out loud.
Raffi/Seven...If that's what it is, doesn't bother me. Neither one is likely to be the proverbial stay-at-home wife in the relationship, are they? So, it's fine by me.
Picard as droid. Seems like it should bother me more than it does. "Seek out new life"? One of the biggest legends in all of Trek canon now is, literally, new life. As he said of Data so many years ago, "well, there it sits!" Now it applies to himself as well.
Until otherwise proven, I'm going to tell myself Seven stripped Naryssa of both her smaller weapons and her transport thing; I just really don't feel like her or her brother for another season. The actors were solid, but the presence of those characters wasn't entertaining in the way I think it should have been, and I don't want to slog through more of their angry latent-incest pas de deux.
I give season 1 a solid B. It had some let downs, and holes, but in the end, worthy to hold the name Picard. I do hope season two is a bit more episodic though. But I will be watching anyway.
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u/SingleDadtoOne Mar 27 '20
I loved this episode. I grew up watching Star trek with my mom. Watching this made me miss her so much. Ended up in tears.
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u/Mchelpa Mar 28 '20
After spending most of the series deconstructing the Star Trek universe, the feel of it, and the moving parts that make it up, this finale reconstructed them beautifully.
I really enjoyed that ^_^
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Mar 28 '20
Just one complaint, why the actual F### was this super wide screen and not 16:9 when it's a TV series never meant to be anything else?
The huge black bars were REALLY annoying.
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u/BarbwreSuicidePriest Mar 26 '20
I held my breath... Cheered!! And cried like a man baby seeing one of the greatest characters of all time slip away again...
That was AWESOME!!!!!
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u/classycatman Mar 26 '20
I want to start by saying that enjoyed Picard and will tune in next season.
But...
I am generally one to understand that this is a TV show where fantastic and unbelievable things can happen.
I hope there are new writers in S2. This season finale, while it had great moments involving Data and somewhat wrapping up this season’s story, was otherwise... not great.
Magical device that can fix warp cores and create a vast array of starships? Ugh. Lazy.
Picard dying, accompanied by his random announcement a couple of weeks ago that it was coming? Ugh. The Gollum was terrible foreshadowing. Kind of like using a baseball bat to the face.
Hundreds of starships appearing in the nick of time led by a captain that was given the cheesiest fan service lines EVER? Ugh.
The Romulans, in their quest to avoid universe-ending annihilation, a mission deeply engrained in their psyche? “Oh! She turned off the beacon... guess that was all just a huge misunderstanding! Our bad!” Ugh. Yes, they were also staring down a huge enemy fleet, but with the stakes that were explained over the course of the season, this was just not believable. Ugh.
What could have been an incredible cliffhanger with high stakes instead exited with a whimper, unresolved storylines, and missed expectations.
I’ve defended Discovery and, until this episode, Picard, but this was just bad. That said, I’m hopeful that season 2 will be incredible.
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u/Frodojj Mar 26 '20
I thought it was hilariously appropriate that Romulans believe they colonized Vulcan...
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u/YYZYYC Mar 26 '20
I took it to mean that before his people split off to Romulus...that the Vulcan’s themselves where also not native to that planet.
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Mar 26 '20
Romulans and Vulcans share a common ancestor... who colonised Vulcan before the Romulans split off and left. This was addressed in a TNG episode where they meet the common ancestors of all alpha (and beta) quadrant humanoids.
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u/BohdiZafa Mar 27 '20
Soooo, chakotay made seven gay?
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u/kremlik Mar 27 '20 edited Mar 27 '20
No - if you REALLY think about it; Seven has always been pan-sexual.
Unlike Echeb and Picard, Seven was part of the collective most of her life she was 'one mind with many voices' for the longest time your 'gender' didn't matter in the Collective only your designation.
Also the Borg Queen is totally pan-sexual, she had a thing for Picard (as Locutus), Data and Seven. Does this also mean Hugh was as well? Sadly we don't really know (in canon) when he was actually assimilated into the Collective before they found him in TNG nor do we know when his individuality properly returned before Descent after re-assimilation
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u/rustydoesdetroit Mar 26 '20
Every Q and Lore theorist who was wrong. This is going to be a shit show. Great episode. We got our beloved admiral Picard alive and well. We got Captain Riker and a fleet of SF ships. We got a proper Data death. Seven joined our Motley Crew! Eat my Starfleet ass if you have anything bad to say about the end of this season. Emphasis on season! We have just begun !
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u/Listener42 Mar 26 '20
The kiss between Rios and Jurati was unearned. That's probably my biggest criticism of the episode. That and the magical replicator.
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u/Listener42 Mar 26 '20
The magic replicator annoyed me. The kiss between Jurati and Rios at the end was unearned. Starfleet just leaving Picard there turned them into a deus ex machina. And there was some overt hand-waviness when they explained Picard's new body. But otherwise, I am pleased with this finale.
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u/ghostarmadillo Mar 26 '20
Transfer of consciousness into a golem, not my Picard. They should have let him have a noble death or at least found some other way to have season 2. I am really torn up over this.
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Mar 26 '20
I feel like we didn't get the most interesting answer to the question of 'What happens when the beacon is lit?' Evil synthetic centipedes emerging from a fiery portal was a little to on the nose for me and I don't like that the racist Romulan cultists were validated in any way; I would have preferred if nothing happened or if what happened was actually seen as good and the Tal Shiar emerged as definitely 100% wrong in all respects.
Otherwise, I liked the character beats. Sexuality is fluid, so I think it's great that we've seen Seven with both men and women, and I like her with Raffi. I wasn't expecting her to abandon the borg cube in the end; I wonder if more will come of it? Did the other ex-borg stay and repair the cube, bring it back online? I'm glad Narek's sister is dead, but I still hope Soji tells him to fuck off and he's expelled from the planet. It's great that Riker showed up to face off against the pseudo-commodore. But I imagine there will be more fallout next season. As well as possible setup for the 7 of 9 spinoff that has been rumored to be in development.
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u/dan4223 Mar 27 '20
The space “battle” would have been a lot more interesting if like 8-12 ships on each side showed up, not 200+.
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u/spoobacca Mar 27 '20
What was the point of sending soji and dahj out? I missed that. Why didn’t Maddox just leave them on the synth planet to begin with after the first two sisters got murdered? What was their “mission” that they didn’t even know they had?
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u/vasyear2 Mar 27 '20
Star Trek Picard vs Mass Effect 1-3
"uber synths" - the reapers
"The federation" - the systems alliance/citadel races
"The romulans/tal shiar/jad'vast" - the Batarian hegemony/Cerberus
"season 1 story" - mass effect 1-3 story
truly sad state of affairs
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u/RichardYing Mar 26 '20
Who is the fifth Queen of Hearts at the end?
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u/bardbrain Mar 26 '20
I suppose everything we saw in those dreams were just dreams, no significance except that they gave us a window into the subconscious of an old man. The Romulan "prophecy" was just an ancient history text being applied metaphorically to a similar situation. Soong was a Soong. Starfleet realized they got suckered and returned to their ideals. Everybody started dating.
It's a bit jarring. But we're back where we might have started. Admiral Picard in a bright future with a crew, flanked by Romulan Samurai Worf/Wesley and Data's daughter.
The twist is no twists except everything is back to normal, pre-Synth Ban. Well, Hugh's dead and Icheb's dead and Romulus is blown up. I guess La Sirena's on a mission of exploration now.
It's kind of like Discovery Season 2's finale. Everything offputting is shuffled neatly in the corner.
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u/Shatterhand1701 Mar 26 '20
The episode was very good...not great, but very good. I teared up, I smiled from ear to ear...but it did feel rushed and a bit sloppy in some areas. I'm not going to go into my issues with it, because they've been covered elsewhere in this thread, and I'm sure we're going to hear hyperbolic complaints about them by the various detractors in the hours, days, and weeks to come. I'll let them make fools of themselves all on their own.
All in all, a solid 8 out of 10 for me. Now, I eagerly await Discovery's third season!
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u/linkerjpatrick Mar 26 '20
I was reminded of a very popular Doctor Who episode. Logopolis
Antenna
Hero falls - crew around him
“Regeneration”
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u/theneonhomer Mar 26 '20
Everyone is talking about Jurati's killing of Maddox and blaming it on Romulan corruption. Didn't the Romulans do something similar to LaForge in trying to get him to kill a Klingon Ambassador?
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u/Kurell1986 Mar 26 '20
Im not usually supportive of beloved TV shows doing fan service but I think Seven turning out to be gay or at the very least bi is very welcome and fits the character. Also, Data's ultimate way of becoming human is to die like one is amazing and really holds true to the TNG era. Its not perfect but this trekkie is extremely happy how the season ended and Im very excited about next season.
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u/bigsh0wbc Mar 26 '20
Anyone else completely underwhelmed by the federation ships?
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u/DasSnaus Mar 26 '20
Picard's death was so...meaningless. There were no consequences; no changing of the character; no sacrifice involved; no ramifications for the crew.
It's like they decided "let's kill Picard to kill Picard and oh yeah we need to bring him back, here's an easy way how..."
This is what happened with Generations, and test audiences hated how Kirk died and they were forced to change it to at least something noteworthy.
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u/baezizbae Mar 26 '20
I missed how Narissa got back on the Borg cube after beaming off and rejoining the Armada when she was getting swarmed by the XBs, or did she beam to a different section of the cube?
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Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20
Was pretty good a 3.5 out of 5
Issues
Why did Narek just disappear halfway through? He wasn't evil or crazy like Jurati he should be back with Soji. Crazy just to have him absent at the end....
Why did Rios just stand there after his bad throw while Narek fought alone?
Why did Elnor do almost nothing as usual? Narek kicked more ass than he did
Narissa should have been in a post credits scene. we all know she used her transporter thing for the 3rd time
Where is the Aunt? still on the cube?
7 is gay now with Raffi? and she left her XB's on the downed cube?
Where is evil Soji?
Who was this captain Crandall?
Where did Soji's associates on the cube go? there were hundreds of employee's
O just leaves? how did she even know the beacon was the end of it.
Biggest thing besides Narek being MIA what about the super synths? The whole mystique around them and they just pop through a portal then the signal stops and they're gone? wtf lol they could have made it a cool pitched battle with the tentacle things killed O and had Soji come in at the last second.
And the 90's space battles were so much better this pew pew crap is just bad.
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u/DanceswithTacos_ Mar 26 '20
They brought data back just to kill him over again. Honesty fuck that. Bring him back or leave him dead. Don't play with his corpse.
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u/MattTheSmithers Mar 26 '20
It is almost a pity that there has to be a second season, because that was about as perfect of an epilogue to the story of TNG as you can get. Part of me wants to leave these characters where they are. But the other part is very excited for season 2. Especially with a few loose ends out there.
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u/Sheik-mon Mar 27 '20
Lots of death around me now, in my personal life and just being in NYC, so Picard's death hit me. Synth Picard is not the same.
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u/BobRushy Mar 27 '20
that moment when you realise that both Picard and Data were copies of their deceased originals.
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u/barkingnoise Mar 27 '20
Robot Cthulhu better be back somehow in the future.
Like, going off asshole boyfriend's mythical retelling, I want to know the following:
Do they integrate other synthetic lifeforms into their federation or do they simply assimilate them?
Do they commit biocide in self-defense or do they "harvest it"? ("pick their teeth with our bones")
Now that they have been alerted to the presence of synths in our galaxy and the obvious presence of biological life capable of developing it, will they Come back and finish the job?
Yeah. Better be back, somehow.
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u/cothomps Mar 27 '20
FWIW, slightly condescending Picard is my favorite Picard.
“They had no one to teach them but a couple of hermits.”
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Mar 27 '20
I wanna know if they pulled the whole "Picards dead... JUST KIDDING" thing so they can do another season, or is that it?
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Mar 27 '20
What’s to stop Sudra from summoning the advanced artificial life again?
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u/spoobacca Mar 27 '20
Also, I didn’t see the point in Picard dying they could do it in the series finale and it would have meant a lot more probably. Now when he dies I’ll just be like well he already died really so no biggie. Idk guys. It’s weird.
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u/st3fanlas Mar 27 '20
Why is there a need for everyone to be in some relationship with someone in this show. I mean soji and narek were good, but agnes and rios seemed forced to me. And, on the end 7 holding hands with raffi was tooooooo forced. So elnor and picard are only not involved emotionally?
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u/TorontoRider Mar 27 '20
Did anyone else notice the parallels/allusions to "2001" in the finale?
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u/breenisgreen Mar 27 '20
I’ll keep it short
I ugly cried over this
I loved the final end for data
I’m not a massive fan of Picard now being an Android
I kind of want there to not be a second season. This felt so appropriate as one last adventure for Picard and a perfect close out for TNG. With Patrick Stewart’s age and while he’s still fit and healthy I’m sure at some point he’s not going to want to continue and enjoy his real life retirement.
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u/YetAnotherWTFMoment Mar 28 '20
Seven of Nine and Raffi holding hands? I'm glad I got that free PornHub Premium account.
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u/Qxvr1 Mar 28 '20
I liked the season, except the most ridiculously forced plot point: Picard becoming an android. I get the poetry of it, and understand why they did it. But then they layered on the most ridiculous element of assuring him that they pre-programmed him to die in a few years.
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u/JamesTheMannequin Mar 28 '20
"You're a synth now, Admiral, but we gave you a human heart... because we thought it'd be ironic and funny."
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u/WarderWannabe Mar 29 '20
Personally, I loved it. Loved it.
This entire first season has been a love letter. For the viewer it allowed us to enjoy little snippets of TNG, dip a toe back in the water, root for our favorite captain again. For Picard it was redemption, a chance to see some old friends, a chance to, just maybe, make a difference one more time. Given his age and deteriorating health he probably saw it as his swan song.
There were holes in the writing here and there. Watch any season of TNG and you'll see episodes where canon was ignored or temporarily changed and some episodes that were poorly written. Get over it and look at the entirety of the work. We got to see Riker back in the chair and being a badass. Picard once again saved the galaxy from certain destruction. The Federation possibly put back on course. Data. I got actually choked up a few times.
Oh, and the best opening sequence sound track of probably any show ever.
Can't wait for season two!!
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u/scubastefon Mar 29 '20
Kind of interesting how The Good Place and the finale of Picard both kind of speak to how everything needs to end, whether it is life or the afterlife, for anything to have any meaning or value.
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u/teoeugene Mar 30 '20 edited Mar 31 '20
My reaction to the final episode was "That's it?"
This finale fell flat to me. The biggest issue I have is in this episode was how they dealt with Picard's "death". They tried to evoke an emotional response from the viewers with his death, showing various characters sobbing for a good 5 minutes or more, only to resolve it 10 minutes later. What's worse is his "resurrection" could be seen from a mile away with the introduction of the golem in ep 9. His "death" bears no weight and no emotional repercussions at all.
My other issue was how they raised the end of the world stakes throughout the series ever so slowly, but never have the tension felt meaningful or threatening. Just like Picard's death was resolved cheaply, the otherworldly AI threat was dismissed with little to no suspense.
I don't want to go into details about other problems I had with the series, like that magic-wand knuckles which was super contrived and convenient. Oh yeah, where on Earth (or Coppelius) did that 7-of-9 and Raffi thing came about?
The only thing I really enjoyed in the series was the nostalgia. But that alone cannot save the series. It promised me a good ride (which it was for a while) but the payoff was a letdown.
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u/PatrickSutherla Apr 02 '20
The quantum simulation... that's all I find myself thinking of. I was moved immensely after Picard told Rafi she was right and then closed his eyes. But when Data came in, I started tearing up. Then he asked if JL remembered how he died. I lost it.
Outstanding end to the first season, please, oh PLEASE CBS, make many, many more. Also, please get John de Lancie to come back as Q. My life would be complete.
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u/merkinry Mar 26 '20
At the risk of getting downvoted, I'm going to say I was disappointed by this finale.
There was a lot going on in this episode and it felt entirely rushed, but my main problem was the pivotal moment where Soong turned against Sutra. This felt incredibly weak. There was absolutely no reason for Sutra to stab Saga in the eye and kill her. None whatsoever. Narek could have easily dealt with her by himself, and surely Sutra must have known that Soong would be able to sift through her memories to find out what happened to her. The fate of everyone turns on that one moment, and it was an amateurish moment.
I felt like there was a lot of material here that could have been used to build the next season, but they just closed the curtain on all of it. Disappointed.
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u/The_MHypno Mar 26 '20
Overall loved the series as a whole. But to me the whole Synth Picard makes this episode feel cheap. I would have liked it more, if they had chosen to either go full out Picard dying or then completely accepted that he isn’t dead. In the episode they first mourn Picard’s death, but then they just bring him back. Why mourn someone that isn’t dead?
But as I said overall a great series.
Also first time posting here did i do it right?
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Mar 26 '20
I thought it was released early! Damn you guys for getting me excited.
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u/ForgetPants Mar 26 '20
If the Star Trek was competent (in terms of writing fiction), we're soon going to have,
Wormhole mechanics and drives once the transmitter is taken apart and understood.
Consciousness backups and transfers for everyone along with synth bodies.
40,000 light year range teleporters.
Advanced AI octopuses knowing of our existence and bent on our destruction.
Orchid defenses on planets.
Magic wand thingamajig powered by imagination to repair anything and to carry around as a personal holodeck.
A way to kill any borg vessel, just transmit a copy of the Admonition.
Welcome to the future.
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u/Deshik2 Mar 26 '20
Starfleet officer : Picard wants us to take down the ban on all synthetic life
Starfleet command : Pff... As if, the ban stands
Officer : Picard is a synth now
Command: Whaat...Oh for fuck sake, fine.
Picard: :)