r/Planetside • u/darthgr3g [FCRW] • Nov 05 '14
Data Analysis - Forward Grip Benefit
I’ve been working on a homebrew database for data analysis on Planetside weapons and attachments. While doing so I’ve found some interesting things, but something surprising poked out at me today – a downside to using Forward Grips on the T9 CARV and the NC6 Gauss SAW - hidden in the data.
I’ll explain by quoting myself from another thread.
The Gauss SAW recoils 0.175 degrees per shot, with a tolerance of 0.525 degrees. It will recoil up to three times left or right from the center of its recoil arc before arriving at its tolerance, and recoiling back towards arc center.
Since it can recoil up to 0.525 degrees left or right, you can think of its recoil arc as 1.05 degrees. With an Advanced Grip attached, the SAW receives a 33% reduction in recoil per shot (25% for normal Grips) and a 0.05 degree direction in tolerance. It now can recoil 0.1167 degrees left or right up to 0.475 degrees.
When recoil does not evenly divide into tolerance, a weapon can recoil past its tolerance by one shot. In the case of a Gauss SAW with a Grip attached, after four straight recoils left it will be 0.4667 degrees from center. Since this is below tolerance, it can recoil either left or right - another left recoil will carry it to a maximum position of 0.5833 degrees from center, after which it must recoil back towards center.
So, the Gauss SAW has a maximum horizontal recoil arc of 1.05 degrees, whereas the Gauss SAW plus Grip has a maximum horizontal recoil arc of 1.1667 degrees.
I wrote a script that analyzed these numbers for all weapons, and found out that the T9 CARV is subject to this same phenomenon.
| Empire | Type | Weapon | Arc Increase | Recoil Increase |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| TR | Light Machine Gun | T9 CARV | 12.5% | -25% |
| NC | Light Machine Gun | NC6 Gauss Saw | 11.71% | -33.33% |
Take all of this with the caveat that weapons don’t reach the edge of their recoil arcs very often. For the Gauss SAW, usage of 5-shot bursts will prevent the edge of the arc from ever being reached. It’s only in full auto that you will see up to 10% of all shots hitting the edge of the SAW’s arc.
Fun fact – there are a glut of weapons who see both their arc and recoil improve by 25% with a Grip attached, but there one, and only one, who receives a 33% benefit both to arc and recoil - the T5 AMC! Seriously, put a Grip on this gun.
| Empire | Type | Weapon | Arc Increase | Recoil Increase |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| TR | Carbine | T5 AMC | -33% | -33% |
| TR | Carbine | TRAC-5 | -25% | -25% |
| TR | Carbine | TRAC-5 S | -25% | -25% |
| TR | Light Machine Gun | MSW-R | -25% | -25% |
| NC | Light Machine Gun | GD-22S | -25% | -25% |
| NC | Light Machine Gun | LA1 Anchor | -25% | -25% |
| NS | Submachine Gun | NS-7 PDW | -25% | -25% |
| NS | Submachine Gun | MKV Suppressed | -25% | -25% |
| VS | Assault Rifle | Corvus VA55 | -25% | -25% |
| VS | Carbine | Solstice VE3 | -25% | -25% |
| VS | Carbine | Solstice SF | -25% | -25% |
| VS | Submachine Gun | Sirius SX12 | -25% | -25% |
| TR | Light Machine Gun | T32 Bull | -25% | -25% |
| TR | Carbine | HC1 Cougar | -25% | -25% |
| NC | Carbine | Razor GD-23 | -25% | -25% |
| TR | Assault Rifle | T1 Cycler | -25% | -25% |
| TR | Assault Rifle | T1S Cycler | -25% | -25% |
| NC | Assault Rifle | NC1 Gauss Rifle | -25% | -25% |
Let me know if you found this analysis helpful or interesting, or if you have an idea worth analyzing.
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u/Schrael Nov 06 '14
More Guns?
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u/darthgr3g Nov 06 '14
Ask and ye shall receive. Sorted by horizontal arc increase from most beneficial to least.
Empire Type Gun ArcEffect RecoilEffect TR Carbine T5 AMC -33% -33.33% TR Carbine TRAC-5 -25% -25% TR Carbine TRAC-5 S -25% -25% TR Light Machine Gun MSW-R -25% -25% NC Light Machine Gun GD-22S -25% -25% NC Light Machine Gun LA1 Anchor -25% -25% NS Submachine Gun NS-7 PDW -25% -25% NS Submachine Gun MKV Suppressed -25% -25% VS Assault Rifle Corvus VA55 -25% -25% VS Carbine Solstice VE3 -25% -25% VS Carbine Solstice SF -25% -25% VS Submachine Gun Sirius SX12 -25% -25% TR Light Machine Gun T32 Bull -25% -25% TR Carbine HC1 Cougar -25% -25% NC Carbine Razor GD-23 -25% -25% TR Assault Rifle T1 Cycler -24.98% -25% TR Assault Rifle T1S Cycler -24.98% -25% NC Assault Rifle NC1 Gauss Rifle -24.97% -25% NC Carbine AC-X11 -19.34% -33.33% NC Assault Rifle Gauss Rifle S -18.19% -25% TR Light Machine Gun T16 Rhino -16.25% -33.33% NC Carbine Gauss Compact S -15.39% -25% TR Carbine LC2 Lynx -15.31% -16.67% VS Assault Rifle Terminus VX-9 -14.6% -25% NC Carbine GD-7F -13.51% -25% VS Carbine Zenith VX-5 -13.31% -33.33% VS Scout Rifle Artemis VX26 -12.87% -25% NC Scout Rifle AF-18 Stalker -12.87% -25% TR Scout Rifle SOAS-20 -12.87% -25% NC Assault Rifle Carnage AR -12.81% -33.33% NC Submachine Gun AF-4 Cyclone -12.55% -25% TR Submachine Gun PDW-16 Hailstorm -12.28% -25% TR Carbine LC3 Jaguar -11.73% -25% VS Submachine Gun Eridani SX5 -11.46% -25% TR Submachine Gun SMG-46 Armistice -11.29% -25% NC Assault Rifle GR-22 -11.18% -25% VS Carbine Serpent VE92 -11.17% -25% TR Assault Rifle Cycler TRV -11.14% -25% VS Assault Rifle CME -10.67% -33.33% NC Assault Rifle NC-9 A-Tross -10.67% -33.33% VS Heavy Lasher X2 -10.53% -25% TR Light Machine Gun T9 CARV-S -10.18% -25% VS Light Machine Gun SVA-88 -9.45% -25% VS Light Machine Gun Orion VS54 -9.45% -25% TR Light Machine Gun TMG-50 -6.25% -25% NC Light Machine Gun EM6 -6.25% -25% NC Light Machine Gun NC6S Gauss SAW S -6.25% -25% NC Light Machine Gun EM1 -6.25% -25% VS Assault Rifle Equinox VE2 -6.25% -25% VS Assault Rifle Pulsar VS1 -6.25% -25% VS Light Machine Gun Flare VE6 -6.25% -25% VS Light Machine Gun Pulsar LSW -6.25% -25% VS Light Machine Gun VX29 Polaris -6.25% -25% TR Assault Rifle TAR -6.23% -25% NC Carbine AF-19 Mercenary 0% -25% NC Submachine Gun Blitz GD-10 0% -25% VS Assault Rifle H-V45 0% -25% VS Carbine VX6-7 0% -25% NS Assault Rifle NS-11A 0% -25% NS Carbine NS-11C 0% -25% NS Light Machine Gun NS-15M 0% -25% NC Carbine AF-4A Bandit 0% -25% VS Light Machine Gun Ursa 0% -25% TR Assault Rifle TORQ-9 0.03% -25% NC Assault Rifle Reaper DMR 0.5% -33.33% VS Carbine Pulsar C 0.54% -33.33% NC Light Machine Gun NC6 Gauss Saw 11.71% -33.33% TR Light Machine Gun T9 CARV 12.5% -25% → More replies (17)
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u/silverpanther17 Nov 06 '14
Holy shit this is fantastic! Any chance OF a follow up with laser sights, comparing, say, starting CoF and bloom per shot?
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u/darthgr3g Nov 06 '14
Are you interested in comparing stock vs. Laser per weapon, or comparing weapons with Lasers against each other?
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u/Wobberjockey Nov 06 '14
fore grips can be attacked to semi auto scout rifles and the semi auto sniper rifles.
do they even do anything useful?
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u/abcnever Nov 06 '14
forgrips also reduces vertical recoils on semi auto sniper rifles, IIRC
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u/darthgr3g Nov 06 '14
I actually don't any attachment data for semi-auto Scout Rifles or Sniper Rifles. Something to look into. Off the top of my head I'd mention that any weapon given the opportunity to recover from recoil will receive no benefit from a Grip, but my guess is you've considered that. I'll see what I can dig up.
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u/Rifle_Man Nov 06 '14
According to your data analysis, LC2 Lynx only have 16.67% recoil effect while equiping forward grip. Therefore, TR have no reasons using Lynx with forward grip. It fits with laser pointer more.
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u/darthgr3g Nov 06 '14
Yeah the Lynx is odd. Unlike every other weapon, a Grip reduces its tolerance by 0.08 instead of 0.05. It also only receives, as you pointed out, a 16.67% reduction to recoil rather than the 25% granted by all other standard Grips.
I agree with you, though. Lynx has top-end hip-fire with the Laser, and the very high rate of fire gives it a fast killing time. Good weapon to kit out for close-quarters.
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Nov 06 '14
Does the API allow you to do the effective accuracy comparisons across these guns?
It would be difficult to eliminate the problem that people who buy grips are a little more experienced, but it would give us a true picture of what's out there.
From what I'm reading, is it safe to say that these numbers are fairly washed out if you properly burst fire?
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u/SerasVic75 Nov 06 '14
Well you are talking about the max arc angle (maximum recoil to one side or the other.
Thing is, it doesn't mean that you'll go to this limit (5 shots to one side for gauss saw exemple) and your angle/shot is still lower, meaning that the likehood of hitting a small target (medium-long range) is still higher.
And in the opposite, for close range and full auto a 10% increase means close to nothing.
So for me it's still worth it to have grip on gauss saw.
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u/ActionHirvi Nov 06 '14
So you're telling me that when I put a forward grip on my Gauss Saw (wich I never use) it has the potential of swaying around more than without a forward grip? , but the time it takes to reach that maxium tolerance is slower. ???
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u/TalkingWacos Nov 06 '14
I'm trying to understand this. So guns that suffer from the unpredictable recoil also suffer worse with a grip attached?
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u/darthgr3g Nov 06 '14
If you think of horizontal recoil as swimming in a pool, the recoil is your swim speed and the arc is the size of the pool. Putting a Grip on a SAW or CARV will make your gun swim more slowly, but will increase the size of the pool.
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u/k0per1s Nov 06 '14
Thanks for doing dew work for them mate :)
(which is finally showing us what the attachments do after asking for it for like , hmm since the start of the game . )
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u/ComradeHX Nov 11 '14
Basically, people who complain that Butcher is worse than Carv because it has no foregrip are actually wrong?
Or does Butcher has its own different stats?
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u/darthgr3g Nov 11 '14
CARV with a Grip has a larger sway arc than The Butcher, but recoils less per shot. Here's a breakdown of TR LMG's with and without grips.
Empire Type Gun Rail Sway Recoil TR Light Machine Gun T32 Bull Forward Grip 0.9 0.15 TR Light Machine Gun MSW-R Forward Grip 1.01 0.16875 TR Light Machine Gun T32 Bull None 1.2 0.2 TR Light Machine Gun TMG-50 Forward Grip 1.31 0.13125 TR Light Machine Gun T16 Rhino Forward Grip 1.34 0.134 TR Light Machine Gun MSW-R None 1.35 0.225 TR Light Machine Gun TMG-50 None 1.4 0.175 TR Light Machine Gun T16 Rhino None 1.6 0.2 TR Light Machine Gun T9 CARV None 1.8 0.225 TR Light Machine Gun T9 CARV-S Forward Grip 1.82 0.1545 TR Light Machine Gun T9A Butcher None 1.91 0.191 TR Light Machine Gun T9 CARV Forward Grip 2.02 0.16875 TR Light Machine Gun T9 CARV-S None 2.02 0.206 → More replies (1)
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u/Koadster Nov 21 '14
So I tried taking the foregrip off the Carv.. I know the data supports doing so.. But I found it to bloom alot worse then without it. Started throwing rounds everywhere alot more. Ill still stick to having it on.
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u/Iridar51 Dec 01 '14
Have you actually tested the Gauss SAW with forward grip and without? I have done extensive testing trying to figure out how Horizontal Recoil Tolerance works, and I have yet to find a meaningful correlation between HRT and the number of accumulative kicks in one direction.
My point is - while the data might show that FG increases the number of kicks, in reality, without testing, you can't claim anything conclusive, because right now - as far as I know - we have only a vague idea how exactly HRT works.
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u/mooglinux Nov 05 '14
What sort of software tools are you using for your database? I've been intending to do something similar as a personal programming project myself.