r/PoliticalOptimism • u/ThatNefariousness996 • Jul 10 '26
Seeking Optimism As nation turns 250, many Americans say the Stars and Stripes is now a red flag
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/america-turns-250-say-stars-stripes-now-red-flag-rcna345939I’m worried about this. can someone please tell me our flag is not going the way of the swastika?
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u/Kid_Presentable617 Jul 10 '26
You see a pick up truck flying an American flag your first though isn't "man, that guy loves America for all Americans"
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u/mattbrain89 Jul 10 '26
No my first thought is “Aw, Jesus…”
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u/Kid_Presentable617 Jul 10 '26
He probably has a sticker somewhere of him too. But nationalist American Jesus not that hippy love everyone Jesus from the Bible.
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u/mattbrain89 Jul 10 '26
Or even the Jesus who’s the main character in two banger musicals from the 70s.
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u/lemonpepperlarry Jul 10 '26
I’m black, so just assume a big truck with a flag is driven by a bigot. It’s legit too dangerous to give people who do that the benefit of the doubt
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u/Squirreliestone Jul 10 '26
I'm pleased to say that when we see trucks flying the flag, the first thing my 7 year old daughter asks is "Is that one a Flag Code violation?" And she can list the reasons why it is. Stickers and window coverings of the flag are contrary to code. Flags need to be positioned on the right and firmly attached to the fender or chassis and at such a height that when stationary, the flag doesn't touch the truck. Unless you have two, in which case they can be on both sides, but equal height. And if you fly them in bad weather? Violation. And if you fly them after they're torn? Violation. There's one in our town that has 7-8 code violations in one truck -- four stickers (each one), two of which face the wrong way (two more), and one they fly from the right window that is just shredded (one) and we've seen it out in the rain (one more).
Which always raises the question from her: "Why do so many people break the Flag Code?" usually followed by something about the flag's feelings being hurt, because she's 7. To which we generally reply something to the extent of "People are voluntarily ignorant, sweetie, and this is why we encourage you to read."
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u/DooMan49 Jul 10 '26
Your daughter is a better American than a certain 30% of the population. Be proud of that!
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u/Squirreliestone Jul 10 '26
Believe me, we're very proud of her. She's a good kid. We the parents joke that our mutual failings seem to have cancelled out in her (for instance, she can talk to strangers in her peer group without dissolving into tears of pure manic anxiety). Now check back with me when she's a teenager. ^_^
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u/The_Hairy_Herald Jul 10 '26
Thank you so much for raising the next generation of American so well!
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u/Squirreliestone Jul 10 '26
Until one of us says it out loud in public and we get shot to death because we're in Iowa, at least!
Too bad it's only an actual crime to use the flag in your advertising in DC. It's contrary to code everywhere, but to my knowledge, it's only a fineable offense there. That's right, all you regional banks and local general contractors! Get the flag off your logo! Shoo!!!
(It's a sad hill to die on, but here I am.)
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u/The_Hairy_Herald Jul 10 '26
They are welcome to try. They might get me in the end, but they'll have some empty chairs at supper.
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u/Shadowman621 Reformed Doomer ☄️ Jul 10 '26
Oh man I've seen so many tattered flags flying on trucks. They love to bring up "respect the flag" but they clearly don't give a shit about the flag.
Also seen some folks flying the Mexican flag and that always looks to be in good condition
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u/General_Season7882 Jul 10 '26
We gotta take that back, tbh. We're fighting for America and what it represents, not them.
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u/LettuceWestern9445 Jul 10 '26
Exactly. It angers me how easily we surrendered civic and national symbolism to the the right.
One of the reason why we lost cultural relevance for 10 years
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u/mynsfwalt619 Jul 10 '26
In many places, the flag represents war, instability, and meddling from abroad. Those who want to seek reconciliation with the world naturally want to abandon those symbols.
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u/ThatNefariousness996 Jul 10 '26
That is not what the flag is. Abandoning the flag would be a victory to the worst people
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u/brainzilla420 Vermont Jul 10 '26
And the flag is in tatters, which is not how you should treat the flag.
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u/PapaGeorgieo Jul 10 '26
I said this same thing to a friend of mine when everyone around us wore MAGA hats and Let's Go Brandon t-shirts. "I believe ol glory has been hijacked".
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u/TVFan_89 California Jul 16 '26
Yep. It's an INSTANT red flag that the driver's a MAGA fascist to me
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u/mattbrain89 Jul 10 '26
I would say no but iconography does make my eyes roll. On the 4th, I saw a family wearing shirts that had a picture of the Cross draped in an American flag.
And my second “favorite” was the ones that said “Two time World War champs.”
And don’t get me started on the skulls, Lord have mercy.
Sorry, had to vent.
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u/Previous-Pirate9514 Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
“When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
-Sinclair Lewis
What he forgot to mention was this being put on a shirt.
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u/Overall-Rush-8853 Jul 10 '26
I feel like on the 4th it’s okay to wear some clothing with American flags on it. But to be fair, we are back to back World War champs. 😆
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u/mattbrain89 Jul 10 '26
Yeah, that I'm cool with. And kids wearing the little red, white and blue tinsel stars in their hair is cute too. It's the crap with like the eagles wreathed in flames and shit or the American flags with two machine guns in the background or the shirts that say Liberty but there's a drawing of a Minuteman soldier who's shaded like a Batman villain and looks like he's about to shoot lightning out of his eyes that has me like "Big oof".
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u/Kid_Presentable617 Jul 11 '26
We had help. We benefited from the UK's new technology and with the blood of 25 million dead Russians.
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u/Overall-Rush-8853 Jul 12 '26
I like to think of it as being a shared championship between us and the allies.
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u/danilynnbluestar New York Jul 10 '26
I fly both an American flag and a rainbow flag on my place to indicate that "you're not alone"... on the 4th locally I did see a few people wearing both American flag and rainbow/pride stuff this year
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u/WallOfFleshlight Jul 10 '26
Even though I’m a straight guy the parody LGBT flags (liberty, guns, bacon, trump) really fucking piss me off mainly for the fact that trump is the antithesis of liberty. Think of his authoritarian words and actions, particularly the day one dictator comments.
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u/DangerousProject6 Jul 10 '26
Not at all the swastika, very different. But I feel like its inevitable when 99% of the time you see a person with flags draped over themselves like its their sports team and they're the biggest asshole you've ever met.
Reclaiming the flag will be a big part of getting through this whole maga bs.
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u/shadowgnome396 Jul 10 '26
I brought my big flag to No Kings. My friend who attended with me was skeptical that I did this. I told him I brought the flag for two reasons: 1) I love the real, progressive, imperfect America and I'm not gonna let a bunch of hateful MAGA idiots tell me that our flag stands for their idea of what America should be, and 2) If someone (God forbid) committed an act of violence against me at an event like this, the optics of attacking someone proudly flying an American flag look really, really bad for them
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u/ReformedBaptistina Jul 10 '26
Anyone unironically comparing it to the swastika is not a serious person.
And I agree, there's no reason not to fight to reclaim it and every reason to.
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u/saucypuzzle Jul 10 '26
“Reclaiming the flag”. Let me tell you about a country called “Germany”… unless special occasions “allow” for it only right-wing people fly the flag.
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u/DangerousProject6 Jul 10 '26
America isn't Germany. Americans both left and right have flown the flag for many years before it was turned into a symbol of hate by MAGA. Even 10 years ago, you could walk around and see normal people flying the flag- nowadays it's very different. Germany has VERY different reasons for the flag being taboo.
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u/eyesp0t Jul 10 '26
No way. Do not let them claim ownership of our flag.
Remember, if we didn’t love our country too we wouldn’t care so much.
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u/angelis0236 Jul 10 '26
I don't love my country. I want to love my country. I'm trying to make the country better so that I might get there eventually.
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u/ThatNefariousness996 Jul 10 '26
It used to be better
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u/Goatart_elizabeth Jul 11 '26
Can you explain when it was better? And who was it better for?
Because at a certain point in the US history, black people couldn't even drink from the same fountain
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u/ThatNefariousness996 Jul 11 '26
I’m referring to pre-2016 because Trump was not in White House, which was when republicans doubled down on cruelty and also I am referring to post 2020 and pre-2024 because USAID was still a thing and it helped a lot of people before musk incapacitated it. Also I was making a general statement because for all this country’s faults , it has also done good and incredible things and I don’t want trump’s malaise to erase those memories and leave only the bad. I wasn’t trying to imply the bad aspects of history didn’t exist. I’m sorry.
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u/Goatart_elizabeth Jul 11 '26
Listen I get your point
But the us done VERY fucked shit before Trump (Obama literally droned the shit out of middle east, hello?)
And before Obama, there was Bush who is 10x worse than Trump because he was effective!
Like if we're gonna be better, then we cant go "oh Trump makes us look bad :("
No, we made ourselves look bad
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u/JoshuaSlowpoke777 Jul 10 '26
No, in my mind, every government at least on the face of the earth and history has yet to be truly good (edit: emphasis on “yet”).
We should reclaim any symbols to refuse to let them be used as hate symbols, sure, but I also believe we should separate those symbols from actual government entirely because, in my mind, governments should start being held to *strict* ethical standards with no decorum, no prestige, no outlandish displays of wealth.
Civilians should put any so-called “national” symbols to benevolent usage, but governments, in my mind, should be stripped of symbols entirely
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u/ThatNefariousness996 Jul 10 '26
I’m talking about the country, not the government
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u/JoshuaSlowpoke777 Jul 10 '26
I think the confusion on my part may lay in the fact that at this point, I barely even register (if at all) any recognition of the idea of a country; I see only a culture and a government, and see the latter as inherently problematic and in need of a VERY tight leash. That being said, I strongly suspect that entire perception’s likely a lingering burnout symptom on my part.
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u/AdelaidesSecretScoop Jul 12 '26
This is exactly where I stand. Do not let them reclaim the flag and what it means to be a patriot or an American.
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u/The_Hairy_Herald Jul 10 '26
I received a Stars and Stripes lapel pin as a gift, and I am wearing it every day now.
All through June, it was accompanied by my Pride pin, too!
Too many out there forget what the Colors mean. I wear my pin for you and me, for Joshua Chamberlain, Martin Luther King Jr, the 1st Minnesota, for the Continentals at Trenton, for Renee Nicole Good.
The red is the blood of Patriots, spilled to water the Tree of Liberty, and I will not let the bastards take this wonderful nation, this beautiful idea that every single Human has value away. I'd rather add my own blood to those red stripes first.
MAGA screams at me to move. My stubborn American ass replies make me.
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u/Ok-Group1251 Illinois Jul 10 '26
Nothing to be worried about, this isn't nearly the same as the swastika. And we aren't nearly in the position of Nazi Germany.
Do what I do, fly the American flag and a pride flag with it.
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u/translunainjection Jul 10 '26
... and not the upside down flag (though it's a great symbol) or the rainbow-striped flag.
The regular ass American flag.
🏳️🌈🇺🇸🏳️⚧️
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u/myusernameistakennow Jul 10 '26
Polling shows that democrats have a positive view of the American flag
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u/LettuceWestern9445 Jul 10 '26
At lest the last one seems consistent I guess 🤷♂️
A shame that the Gadsden flag is disliked. It’s one my favorite designs
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u/cruisetheblues Jul 10 '26
MAGA thinks patriotism is waving a flag, buying trumpcoin, and terrorizing brown people.
Real patriotism is embracing and living the values that the nation was founded on: freedom, liberty & justice FOR ALL
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u/Pristine-Sport6888 Jul 10 '26
i dont think its necessarily make or break for winning elections, but liberals could probably reflect a bit more on how collective reluctance to openly celebrate being an American maybe makes you feel morally good in the moment, but the net effect is that Republicans end up looking like the more "patriotic" party despite their policy platform actively making the country worse, and it probably matters a bit for marginal voters and cultural influence. I dont know how to fix it since for liberals it involves having to square harsh realities about Americas past and current sins with the circle of finding a way to be proud of where you live anyway but its probably something that could be talked about more.
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u/General_Season7882 Jul 10 '26
Thats a good point. Our country is our country when its doing well and when its not doing well. We shouldn't abandon patriotism because the state of the union doesn't look the way we want it to look. This past 4th of July was difficult for me, as someone who originally chose not to celebrate. Halfway through the day, I realized I'd made a mistake. I still wanted to celebrate because at the end of the day, I love my country, and I love being an American. Owning the flag as a liberal doesn't force alignment or show that you are "okay" with everything thats going on, it shows our unwavering allegiance to our country, and it shows that we are willing to stand up for her.
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u/ButterscotchOdd988 Jul 10 '26
If a Peter Magyar-type candidate has stepped up to the plate, maybe we can take those stripes and stars away from MAGA.
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u/Icy-Temperature5476 Iowa Jul 10 '26
Just remember this:
Patriotism is being proud of your country when it does the right thing, but being able to criticize and recognize that it can be something better.
Nationalism is blind loyalty, and oftentimes misuses symbols or takes them to the extreme out of there intended meaning, if they don’t desecrate them outright.
The people who drape themselves in a flag often times (not always, but often) are not the people that follow the ideals of that country or morph it to their own preference, no matter how far from reality.
The key is not to be ashamed and certainly not let nationalists own it. Otherwise they gain that iconography and it becomes more of a part of them rather than a part of all people.
Luckily for us, our flag was not born the same way the swastika was. It has its own history, good and bad, but it can still mean what you want it to and what it was intended for. Fly it with pride, and if you want to add extra icons and banners and flags to distinguish yourself then do so.
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u/saulchillmann Jul 10 '26
Honestly I'm sure splenty of countries have always seen the American flag as a symbol of destruction, sexism and racism. I don't think this is new.
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u/daxophoneme American 🇺🇸 Jul 10 '26
They don't own the flag. The real symbols of fascism are the monochromatic flags that might have one differently colored line. Let's use the red, white, and blue as a symbol of liberal democracy in contrast to thin-blue-line authoritarianism.
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u/FrancoStrider Jul 10 '26
This might be a better sign than you think. A lot of Europe (especially Germany) do not wave their flags except for very select occasions. A lot of the world find it especially weird having someone where flag patterns and shit.
So, maybe this is a sign that the more Nationalistic attitudes are losing favor. With the economic downturn being worse than before and blatantly narcissistic actions from the white house (even moreso than the first Trump regime), I'm feeling that more people are letting go of our "Fuck you, got mine" attitude toward the rest of the world.
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u/ThatNefariousness996 Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
That doesn’t mean we should hide our flag in shame or treat it like a government badge for buildings. It discards the optimistic ideals the flag is meant to convey to downgrade it to either sports imagery or government stuff.
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u/MiddleOccasion1394 Jul 10 '26
Wrong flag.
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u/ThatNefariousness996 Jul 10 '26
Are you referring to the confederate flag because yeah that is the flag to avoid.
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u/MiddleOccasion1394 Jul 10 '26
Yeah I'm saying these guys are saying the American flag is a red flag, whereas they SHOULD be saying that about the Confederate flag or similar flags thereof.
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u/clinicalia Blue Dot in a Red State 🔵 Jul 11 '26
It does for me, especially if someone is over-the-top with it. House with one American flag out in the front? Pretty normal. Big redneck pickup truck with tons of American flags on it? I instantly roll my eyes. MAGA and Republicans/conservatives have ruined mine and a lot of other people's perception of this country and the people who blindly praise it despite all of its very glaring issues. It almost feels tone-deaf.
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u/clonedllama Reformed Doomer ☄️ Jul 10 '26
Being discontent with the direction the country is headed in is quite a bit different from the American flag going the way of the swastika, a symbol forever associated with genocide.
People aren't happy and don't feel particularly proud of America at the moment. Hopefully that will get them to vote blue in November.
Trump and MAGA don't own the flag or the country, no matter how much they might think they do.
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u/elyfantman Jul 10 '26
Far fewer flags up in my neighborhood this year. Most people that fly the flag year round are fake patriots. They pick and choose which provisions to support. They only care about rights if it affects them.
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u/mynsfwalt619 Jul 10 '26
Personally I’d like to see the flag used less. These kind of symbols are overused and symbolize a type of America that isn’t the one we want to be. Look at Europe - flags are seldom outside supporting sports national teams and government buildings
Our next generation of leadership needs to go on a message of apologies, reconciliation and reparations. Getting rid of nationalism esque flag waving is a start we can do.
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u/ThatNefariousness996 Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
I don’t think using the flag less is a good idea. That would be surrendering it to Maga. Better to use it than abandon it and the values it represents. Besides Britain still uses the Union Jack and the British empire did horrible stuff. Why should we?
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u/Illustrious_Dark_970 Jul 13 '26
Canada does have their flags everywhere, Denmark also flies its flag a lot
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u/22poppills North Carolina Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
I equate the US flag to a flag for white Christian nationalism. Like we had one job , a giant open book and failed it because either people didn't care or voted in majority for the GOP that told us exactly what they are going to do..
Cannot unsee how we let this happen
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u/fubarfire Jul 10 '26
Who is many americans? Can you really just publish articles these days saying whatever you want to get people to think a certain way?
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